| --- Log opened Sun Sep 11 00:00:39 2011 |
| 01:35 | | SmithKurosaki [smith@Nightstar-ce719f8d.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #code |
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| 03:50 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:30 | <@McMartin> | Ow. |
| 05:31 | <@McMartin> | "The best thing about UDP jokes is that I don't care if you get them or not." |
| 05:32 | < Vornicus> | :( |
| 05:43 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|chores |
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| 10:17 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 16:01 | | * gnolam WTFs at KiCad. |
| 16:02 | <@Tamber> | ? |
| 16:02 | < gnolam> | Mmm, open source GUIs. |
| 16:02 | < gnolam> | Scrolling is shift+mouse wheel. Zooming is unmodified mouse wheel. :P |
| 16:03 | <@Tamber> | I see that a lot in closed-source software, too. |
| 16:03 | < gnolam> | (Not that CAD or schematic design programs tend to have great UIs in general, but still - it takes open source to not just ignore but pervert common paradigms) |
| 16:03 | <@Tamber> | Apparently people expect mouse-wheel to zoom. |
| 16:03 | <@Tamber> | Really? |
| 16:03 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 16:04 | < gnolam> | Your garden-variety commercial program would've just ignored the mouse wheel altogether. |
| 16:04 | <@Tamber> | Ah, yes, because they're still using two-button mice on an ancient UNIX workstation, therefore everyone must be? |
| 16:04 | <@Tamber> | :p |
| 16:05 | | * Tamber shrugs. |
| 16:05 | < gnolam> | This takes two UI operations, "scroll with mouse wheel" and "zoom with mouse wheel", but makes sure none of them are done the way you actually expect them to be. |
| 16:06 | < gnolam> | (I.e. scroll with unmodified, zoom with ctrl-modified) |
| 16:06 | <@Tamber> | I'll admit, it does keep catching me out if I've not used it for a while. |
| 16:06 | < ToxicFrog> | gnolam: AFAICT only web browsers actually do that. |
| 16:06 | < gnolam> | And it makes it /just/ different enough to drive you crazy. |
| 16:06 | < ToxicFrog> | CAD software in particular, rather open or closed source, basically randomly assigns controls. |
| 16:07 | < gnolam> | Actually, no. |
| 16:07 | < gnolam> | Ctrl+mouse wheel zoom is as close to standard as you get. |
| 16:07 | <@Tamber> | Could be worse. You could have to hold super, hyper and then move the mouse forward and back to zoom~ |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | gnolam: yes, but that's not very close at all. |
| 16:08 | < gnolam> | ... I'm trying to think of a program I have installed where zooming is relevant that doesn't do it, but I can't come up with one. |
| 16:09 | < gnolam> | Even MS Paint does it nowadays, forchrissakes. |
| 16:13 | < gnolam> | So yeah. Switching around scroll/zoom like that is pretty much like remapping copy/paste. |
| 16:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Which is also common in CAD software~ |
| 16:14 | <@Tamber> | Yes, because it's /only/ open-source software that do stupid shit like remap actions to non-'standard' keys, or break UI 'convention'... ;) |
| 16:15 | <@Tamber> | (*cough* home-rolled widgets, etc) |
| 16:16 | < gnolam> | Hey. Switching to non-standard is way better than switching around established behavior. |
| 16:16 | <@Tamber> | What, like "using the scroll wheel scrolls"? |
| 16:16 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 16:17 | < gnolam> | The former just unnecessarily steepens the learning curve. The latter makes the program a pain to work with forever. |
| 16:20 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 16:25 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 16:38 | < gnolam> | For the record, the rest of the UI turns out to be less than impressive as well. |
| 16:39 | < gnolam> | And this is supposed to be the best of the crop. :P |
| 16:40 | <@Tamber> | Well, if you can find a better one, let me know, would you? :) |
| 16:40 | <@Tamber> | (If you say Eagle, I will set you on /fire/. >:| ) |
| 16:41 | < TheWatcher> | (not a fan of Eagle, eh?) |
| 16:42 | <@Tamber> | Not particularly, no. |
| 16:43 | <@Tamber> | Since I don't particularly like the idea of selling both my kidneys to afford the version that doesn't have arbitrary limits. |
| 16:49 | | * TheWatcher may have a slightly skewed view, given that he bought a full commercial license for lightwave~ |
| 16:51 | <@Tamber> | Yes, well, in the world that I inhabit, where I have no money... ;) |
| 16:57 | | * gnolam curses KiCad again and gives up on it. |
| 16:58 | < gnolam> | Seriously. That UI defies Hanlon's Razor. |
| 16:59 | < gnolam> | "What's that, you moved a component? In that case, let me move that wire as well. Just because you had connected these two components doesn't mean you want to keep them connected, right?" |
| 17:00 | < gnolam> | "Copy and paste, what're those? Oh, you select things, press a standard key combination, and then you can create copies... I see. Now what does 'select' mean?" |
| 17:00 | < gnolam> | And that is if you even get past the has-to-be-intentional fucking up of the mouse wheel behavior. |
| 17:02 | | * Tamber patpats. |
| 17:02 | <@Tamber> | Calm down, have a cup of tea, that usually helps. |
| 17:02 | < gnolam> | Looks like I'm going to have to draw up these schematics in fucking Inkscape. |
| 17:02 | < gnolam> | And simply give up on PCBs. |
| 17:02 | < gnolam> | Because I'm sure as hell not going to route them by hand. |
| 17:48 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:01 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Birds |
| 19:04 | <@PinkFreud> | gnolam: I've never understood how someone could create a product so utterly useless and broken, and release it as if it were finished. |
| 19:04 | <@PinkFreud> | (see: firmware in any Linksys/Cisco device from the past few years) |
| 19:57 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:05 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 21:33 | < Phox> | PinkFreud: That's an entire software paradigm. Release early, release often |
| 21:34 | <@Tamber> | Not quite, in the case of this firmware. |
| 21:35 | < Phox> | No "release often"? |
| 21:35 | <@Tamber> | "Release early; fuck it, we've got another product about to be released, we'll fix the bugs in time for that, if we've got time" |
| 21:35 | <@PinkFreud> | yeah, wishful thinking |
| 21:35 | <@PinkFreud> | :) |
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| 23:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 12 00:00:00 2011 |