| --- Log opened Sat Aug 20 00:00:36 2011 |
| 00:25 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:10 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-75c3c27b.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 01:58 | < Kazriko> | I imagine that it's in there because someone made that mistake. |
| 01:59 | < gnolam> | Or because Ubisoft are scum. |
| 02:00 | < Kazriko> | While true, I'm not sure where that follows my point. :) |
| 02:02 | < gnolam> | Dammit, mischan |
| 02:03 | < Kazriko> | heh. |
| 02:04 | | * Kazriko only buys ubisoft games on consoles because their PC DRM is cringeworthy. |
| 02:06 | <@McMartin> | They haven't retroactively added it to their back catalog, at least~ |
| 02:06 | < ToxicFrog> | Yet. |
| 02:06 | <@McMartin> | :effort: |
| 02:06 | <@McMartin> | By the time they do I'll have caught up, anyhow~ |
| 02:06 | < ToxicFrog> | Heh. |
| 02:06 | <@McMartin> | But yeah, this does mean that Ubisoft's publishing history basically ends at AC2. |
| 02:07 | | * ToxicFrog debates between TR:L, Wolfenstein, and EYE for his next game |
| 02:07 | <@McMartin> | TR:L was pretty good~ |
| 02:08 | <@McMartin> | If more shameless and murderous than TR:A. |
| 02:08 | < ToxicFrog> | Actually it may be TR:A I have, let me check~ |
| 02:09 | < ToxicFrog> | It totally is. |
| 02:09 | < ToxicFrog> | I keep getting those mixed up. |
| 02:10 | < gnolam> | TR:L? TR:A? |
| 02:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Tomb Raider: {Legend,Anniversary} |
| 02:10 | <@McMartin> | Tomb Raider: Legend, Tomb Raider: Anniversary |
| 02:10 | < gnolam> | Ah. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Anniversary's where they realized they had a good physics engine and then went sociopathically nuts with it, and replaced all the combat with QTEs. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Even the stuff that looks and plays like combat. |
| 02:11 | < Kazriko> | I thought Squenix published TR now? |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | They do. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | TF changed the subject after my line re: AC2. |
| 02:12 | < Kazriko> | Ahh. heh |
| 02:12 | | * Kazriko is deciding between Digaea 3 and Atelier Rorona... |
| 02:12 | < Kazriko> | I think rorona, because D3 was just announced for vita recently, and I usually play disgaea games on portables. |
| 02:13 | < ToxicFrog> | I'm still waiting for an english version of Atelier Marie+Elie :( |
| 02:13 | <@McMartin> | According to The Master Plan, my next game should be DMC4. |
| 02:13 | <@McMartin> | The question is whether I can finish it off by the time Deus Ex 3 comes out. |
| 02:14 | < Kazriko> | Those were the PSP re-releases? |
| 02:14 | <@Alek> | hm. I actually have DMC4. but want DMC 1-3 first. XD |
| 02:14 | <@McMartin> | Alek: DMC3 Special Edition is the best of the series by a wide margin |
| 02:14 | <@McMartin> | 2 is widely considered skippable. |
| 02:14 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 02:14 | <@McMartin> | 1 is apparently OK but I found it to be kind of broken. |
| 02:14 | | * Alek is a completionist, sorta. :P |
| 02:15 | | * Alek does want DE3. >_> |
| 02:15 | <@McMartin> | There is no reason to play the non-Special Edition of DMC3, since it's a strict subset of the options available. |
| 02:15 | <@Alek> | well. Steam has DMC3: SE |
| 02:15 | <@Alek> | and DMC4, of course. which I have. |
| 02:15 | <@Alek> | but nothing else. |
| 02:16 | <@Alek> | I'm just wondering if I can afford to plunk down $20 for it. XD |
| 02:16 | < Derakon> | DMC1 is my personal favorite of the series. |
| 02:16 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-635d16fc.org] has joined #code |
| 02:16 | < ToxicFrog> | Kazriko: PSP re-releases of what? |
| 02:16 | < Derakon> | 3 has a smoother engine but 1 has more interesting enemies. |
| 02:17 | <@McMartin> | Alek: Those are the only ones that got PC ports. |
| 02:17 | <@Alek> | huh. there's a prequel coming in 12. |
| 02:17 | | * Alek wonders if he can find a decent ps2 emu. :P |
| 02:17 | < Derakon> | Not to mention a much better difficulty scale; playing Dante Must Die in 3 is an exercise in frustrating tedium. |
| 02:17 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: PCSX2 |
| 02:17 | | * McMartin blinks at Alek. "DE3 and DMC3 are both prequels." |
| 02:17 | < ToxicFrog> | you'll need a pretty hefty system to run it, though |
| 02:17 | < Kazriko> | ToxicFrog, Atelier Marie? |
| 02:17 | < Derakon> | DE3? |
| 02:17 | <@McMartin> | Deus Ex 3 |
| 02:17 | < Derakon> | Ah, right. |
| 02:18 | <@Alek> | mcm: uh. |
| 02:18 | < ToxicFrog> | Kazriko: there was? Seriously? ...in english? |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Aka DX3, aka DX:HR, aka DE:HR. |
| 02:18 | < Kazriko> | jp... |
| 02:18 | < ToxicFrog> | Bum. |
| 02:18 | < ToxicFrog> | It's now been released on three platforms and never translated into en. |
| 02:18 | < Derakon> | D'oh. |
| 02:18 | <@Alek> | they're releasing a prequel to the prequel. |
| 02:18 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 02:18 | < Derakon[AFK]> | Off to game night. |
| 02:18 | <@Alek> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DmC_Devil_May_Cry |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Okay then, I guess |
| 02:19 | < ToxicFrog> | (Marie and Elie were originally PSX games, then got touched up and released as a single PS2 title, Marie + Elie) |
| 02:19 | < Kazriko> | No, i guess it's Atelier Judie and Atelier Violet |
| 02:19 | < Kazriko> | for PSP. |
| 02:19 | <@McMartin> | DMC1 and 3 share a designer, and this is why they're The Good Ones. >_> |
| 02:20 | <@Alek> | wut. |
| 02:20 | < Kazriko> | so the 1st and 2nd aren't out, just the 3rd and 4th. wonder if they'll head US-ward. |
| 02:20 | <@McMartin> | One of the reasons DMC4 is less well-received is because the gameplay is a lot more slow and deliberate. |
| 02:20 | <@Alek> | apparently the storyline goes DmC, DMC3, DMC, DMC4, DMC2. |
| 02:20 | < Kazriko> | er, 4th and 5th. |
| 02:20 | <@McMartin> | DMC1 and 3 have extremely frantic combat systems, and are also absurdly over-the-top. |
| 02:21 | | * Alek remembers playing one of them, he forgets which one... |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | This is not true of 2 or 4. Frantic insanity is sort of the series hallmark though. |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | IIRC, they went on to do Bayonetta. |
| 02:21 | <@Alek> | which one had the spider boss as the first boss? |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | Which is, well. Yes. |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | That's DMC1. |
| 02:21 | | * Alek nods. |
| 02:21 | <@Alek> | long time ago. |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | DMC3's first boss is Cerberus. |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | Defeating him grants you three-section ice chucks.. |
| 02:21 | <@McMartin> | It gets sillier from there. |
| 02:22 | <@Alek> | I was stuck on that boss, so that was all my experience, and my cousins exchanged the game after that visit. |
| 02:22 | | * ToxicFrog fires up EYE |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, pretty much. |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | I got brickwalled one level later. |
| 02:22 | < ToxicFrog> | Time to fight the Metastromboli and get some brosephs. |
| 02:22 | <@Alek> | but I did like it. |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | Bossfights in the DMC games do not dick around. |
| 02:23 | <@Alek> | yep. they're the equivalent of FF optional bosses. :P |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Once you get better at them, they're a lot less obnoxious. |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | However, DMC3 is better at this than DMC1, imnsho. |
| 02:23 | < ToxicFrog> | I still haven't finished DMC3. |
| 02:23 | < ToxicFrog> | Fuck The Goddamn Sky Whale, Seriously. |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Right in the womb level~ |
| 02:23 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, I miss Ifrit. |
| 02:24 | <@McMartin> | I never got that far in DMC1~ |
| 02:24 | <@Alek> | I repeat. I have $30 in the bank. can I afford to plunk down $20 for DMC3:SE? |
| 02:24 | <@McMartin> | No. |
| 02:24 | <@Alek> | ?_? |
| 02:24 | <@McMartin> | You've lasted this long without it. |
| 02:24 | < ToxicFrog> | No. Especially since it'll be on sale for $5 within a year. |
| 02:24 | <@Alek> | true. |
| 02:24 | <@Alek> | besides, I have Arkham Asylum, which I just installed. XD |
| 02:24 | <@McMartin> | What the Hell are you doing *here* man |
| 02:25 | <@Alek> | :P |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | You could be off being The Goddamn Batman |
| 02:25 | | * Alek nods. |
| 02:25 | <@Alek> | keyboard or controller? |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | Both work admirably. |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | B:AA is really, really good, by basically all metrics. |
| 02:25 | < ToxicFrog> | Either. It works great with both. |
| 02:25 | < ToxicFrog> | To the extent that I wouldn't have been able to identify it as a console port without a priori knowledge. |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | TF: With one exception that says "I was originally designed for a controller", that being the hacking minigame |
| 02:26 | < ToxicFrog> | I remember the hacking minigame not at all~ |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | It involves manipulating two thumbsticks. |
| 02:26 | <@Alek> | huh. |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | or, with mouse and keyboard, using the A and D buttons and the left and right mouse buttons. |
| 02:27 | | * Alek twitches. |
| 02:27 | < ToxicFrog> | Most of my memories of AA involve effortlessly destroying dozens of mooks in a jawdroppingly beautiful ballet of violence. |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | (It is ridiculously simpler on KB) |
| 02:27 | <@Alek> | heh. ballet of violence. that was my experience with the in-store demo last year, yes. |
| 02:27 | | * Kazriko would be happier with PC games if they didn't require Xbox compatible controllers... |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | Mine involve an endless parade of sneak attacks. |
| 02:28 | < Kazriko> | Suddenly my PS2 controller adapter isn't working on new games. :( |
| 02:28 | <@McMartin> | Kazriko: API compat issues |
| 02:28 | <@McMartin> | There are ways to fake it for PS2 controllers, too, I believe |
| 02:28 | < Kazriko> | yeah, but they're either costly or unstable. |
| 02:28 | <@McMartin> | The thing is that the X360-only gamepad games aren't using DirectInput, they're using some other API |
| 02:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Kazriko: look for 'xbox360ce' (if the game expects a 360 controller) or 'xpadder' (if it doesn't support controllers at all). Both work admirably. |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | Which modern gamepads all actually do, it's just... yeah. |
| 02:29 | < Kazriko> | Couldn't get either of them to work with breath of death 7... |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | (Also the new API is way better, which is why they use it) |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | Mmm |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | BoD7 is an XBLA port |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | That may be bound more tightly |
| 02:29 | < Kazriko> | XBIG... |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | And yeah, a lot of games these days are using XInput rather than DirectInput, which has the advantage of not sucking as hard but the disadvantage of only supporting 360 controllers. |
| 02:29 | < Kazriko> | ported with XNA... |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: pretty sure XBLA/XBIG games also use XInput. It's one of the reasons it's so popular. |
| 02:29 | | * McMartin nods |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | Also because as an API XInput really is superior by every conceivable measure. |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | A lot of indie games patch to DirectInput later for compatibility but start with XInput just to get the damn thing out the door |
| 02:30 | < Kazriko> | I suppose I'll have to find another gamepad for PC that doesn't look like a darn xbox controller. |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | Dude, you're playing on a Windows box, you've already sold out~ |
| 02:30 | < Kazriko> | I find them uncomfortable, not anything to do with selling out. |
| 02:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Kazriko: what happened when you tried 360ce? |
| 02:31 | < Kazriko> | absolutely nothing. |
| 02:31 | <@McMartin> | OK, fair |
| 02:31 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, you were using http://code.google.com/p/x360ce/ , right?) |
| 02:31 | < Kazriko> | I like my old logitech controllers really, I wonder if there's a newer version that supports xinput. |
| 02:31 | <@McMartin> | (I found I started having better luck with the weirder controller-based games after switching to the X360 gamepad because the games were seriously designed with them in mind) |
| 02:32 | < Kazriko> | I think so. It's been a month since I tried it. |
| 02:32 | <@McMartin> | Kazriko: Hm. There *should* be. |
| 02:32 | <@McMartin> | (re: Logitech) |
| 02:32 | < ToxicFrog> | (there's like four projects named something like "xbox360ce" and AFAICT this is the only one that works worth a damn) |
| 02:32 | < Kazriko> | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104403 << Might be close enough. |
| 02:33 | < Kazriko> | I like Symmetric analogs, and logitech's dpads are usually good. |
| 02:34 | | * McMartin nods |
| 02:35 | < Kazriko> | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=10857 93&CatId=3077 << I prefer these, but they don't make them shaped that way anymore. |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | Kaz: Another way to search for things here is to search for 3rd party X360 controllers with Windows drivers |
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| 03:15 | < ToxicFrog> | Kazriko: what happened when you tried x360ce, did the game just not see it? |
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| 05:27 | < Kazriko> | the game has no indication whatsoever as to if it sees it or not, but when you press the arrows nothing would happen. |
| --- Log closed Sat Aug 20 05:55:59 2011 |
| --- Log opened Sat Aug 20 05:56:12 2011 |
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| 08:57 | < AnnoDomini> | http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/08/16/white-trash-repairs-a-great-way-to- connect-to-usenet/ |
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| 10:19 | < Vornicus> | Gah. I really need to actually write this code, I keep thinking about problems it might have and it's getting to me but i can't see it yet. |
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| 13:07 | <@simon_> | I know the feeling. |
| 13:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 13:33 | <@simon_> | I wonder, if you take a solved game of sudoku and you gradually remove numbers, at some point you end up with enough clear squares to have more than one solution for the partially solved game. |
| 13:35 | <@simon_> | so what I wonder is, how much computation is involved in determining, for a game of sudoku, how many solutions to a partially solved game there are, as a function of how many squares you clear. |
| 13:35 | <@simon_> | (if that makes sense) |
| 13:35 | <@simon_> | I'll just have to test it, I think. |
| 13:36 | <@simon_> | I wonder what the difference is between finding one solution and finding all solutions for some number of filled out squares equivalent to what you might expect in one of those sudokus labelled "easy" or "hard". |
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| 17:35 | < Phox> | I thought sudoku puzzles were composed of magic squares. That'd mean, provided nine numbers, possibly less, there is only a unique solution |
| 17:37 | <@simon_> | Phox, well, at some point there are bound to be multiple solutions if you keep removing numbers. |
| 17:37 | < Phox> | Sure, that's why I said nine |
| 17:37 | < Phox> | Below that, I'm not sure about the math to prove it |
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| 17:38 | < Phox> | But, above that, I'm pretty sure. I'd have to try and find some counterexamples |
| 17:38 | <@simon_> | Phox, but you're saying that given nine numbers, there should be only one solution? |
| 17:38 | < Phox> | I think so. It's a magic square. Every row and column equals the same number. |
| 17:39 | < Phox> | I haven't even tried to solve it, but I think that'll at least be a good starting point |
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| 17:41 | < Phox> | Hmm, cool. |
| 17:42 | < Phox> | I guess I'm completely off, for a lower bound. Wikipedia says it's unsolved, with the lowest known unique solution having 17 given numbers |
| 17:46 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 17:47 | <@simon_> | ok |
| 17:47 | <@simon_> | that's nice to know. |
| 18:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Phox: Sudokus aren't magic squares; they have no constraints on the diagonals and have duplicate numbers. |
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| 20:58 | < AnnoDomini> | http://pastie.org/2403106 |
| 21:14 | <@simon_> | AnnoDomini, hehe. |
| 21:17 | < gnolam> | :) |
| 21:27 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 22:08 | | * gnolam ponders conference attire. |
| 22:22 | < AnnoDomini> | Bathrobe. |
| 22:22 | <@Tamber> | With stripy pyjamas, and fluffy slippers? |
| 22:40 | < gnolam> | ... if I had the balls, I'd wear the Frog Hat. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Aug 21 00:00:52 2011 |