| --- Log opened Thu Aug 18 00:00:07 2011 |
| 00:21 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-3edcbb87.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 01:10 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 01:10 | | cpux [chatzilla@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] |
| 01:18 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 01:24 | | cpux [chatzilla@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 01:31 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-f29f718d.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:38 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 01:41 | | Vash is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:09 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:48 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-75c3c27b.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:12 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:15 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 03:40 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-75c3c27b.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:47 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-577d8499.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:51 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-577d8499.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:55 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-c50d37f0.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:04 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-5507a6b5.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: brb, reboot.] |
| 04:14 | | Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-5507a6b5.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 04:15 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:20 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 04:33 | | Vornicus [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 05:02 | | kw-sleep-n is now known as kwsn |
| 05:04 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-c50d37f0.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:24 | | Kazriko [kaz@4CA975.462904.08E9A2.992A2D] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 05:37 | | Kazriko [kaz@4CA975.462904.08E9A2.992A2D] has joined #code |
| 06:04 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-635d16fc.org] has quit [[NS] Quit: moo] |
| 06:18 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-c50d37f0.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 06:18 | < Reivles> | 2/3x1/3 is 2/9, yes? |
| 06:27 | <@Phox> | Mmm... usually, yes. Depends on your interpretation |
| 06:28 | < Reivles> | How do you mean? |
| 06:29 | <@Phox> | Well, if it's in C, what you're actually asking it do do is ((2/3)*1)/3 |
| 06:29 | <@Phox> | Ah, nevermind |
| 06:29 | <@Phox> | I guess that's still 2/9 |
| 06:30 | | * Phox stops embarassing himself |
| 06:31 | <@Phox> | Ah! But wait! |
| 06:31 | <@Phox> | What if, through some terrible twist, you've defined x as a variable? Then, 2/3x1/3 is really a syntax error |
| 06:31 | <@Phox> | Not that it'd run, in teh first place |
| 06:31 | <@Phox> | *the |
| 06:32 | < Reivles> | Hilarious. |
| 06:32 | < Reivles> | Note that I'm on a laptop, so asterisks are hard to come by. :p |
| 06:32 | <@Phox> | Heh. |
| 06:36 | < Reivles> | And 1/6x5/6? |
| 06:38 | <@Phox> | 5/36 |
| 06:39 | <@Phox> | What brings it up? |
| 06:47 | <@Phox> | You know, I had a really harsh calculus test, today. |
| 06:47 | <@Phox> | Feels good to get at least one math question right. |
| 06:52 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-c826c088.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 07:05 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:07 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 07:14 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 07:24 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-c50d37f0.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 08:01 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:19 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 08:27 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:29 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 08:45 | | Kazriko [kaz@4CA975.462904.08E9A2.992A2D] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 08:51 | | Kazriko [kaz@4CA975.462904.08E9A2.992A2D] has joined #code |
| 09:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:34 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-ab06ffc6.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 09:41 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 09:49 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 10:30 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-577d8499.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:36 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-f29f718d.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code |
| 11:14 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: just keeping the holy war alive |
| 11:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 11:47 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 12:09 | <@Tamber> | So, my COBOL book turned up today. "Your First Aid Kit for Getting COBOL Programs from this Millennium into the Next" That sounds kinda ominous, this side of y2k :D |
| 12:35 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 12:45 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-14eb6405.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 12:46 | | * gnolam snerks |
| 12:49 | < gnolam> | A better book would be "Your First Aid Kit for Getting COBOL Programs from this World into the Next". |
| 12:49 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 12:50 | <@Tamber> | "How to kill the COBOL that lurks within. * Includes free stake and bottle of holy water!" |
| 13:27 | <@froztbyte> | only bottle? what if you run out? |
| 13:28 | <@Tamber> | You switch to the napalm. |
| 13:29 | <@froztbyte> | fair 'nuff |
| 14:24 | < gnolam> | Take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. |
| 14:58 | <@froztbyte> | send the planet into the sun |
| 14:58 | <@froztbyte> | we don't want anyone accidentally resurrecting the ruins |
| 15:03 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 15:03 | | Vash is now known as Vornicus |
| 15:03 | < ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: pretty sure hg has an equivalent these day, so~ |
| 15:05 | <@froztbyte> | but holy war! |
| 15:05 | <@froztbyte> | what'll happen if one day all our software can perform equally? |
| 15:05 | <@froztbyte> | whole forums would be lost to the ravages of sensibility :/ |
| 15:05 | <@Tamber> | Pfft, yeah, right. :) |
| 15:10 | < AnnoDomini> | That sounds like communist talk. |
| 15:29 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 17:23 | < gnolam> | Son, that sounds like hellspeak. |
| 17:27 | <@jerith> | http://www.codeodor.com/index.cfm/2011/8/11/WTFs-by-programming-language-reposit ory-on-github/3395 |
| 17:30 | < Vornicus> | wtf is with PHP's? |
| 17:31 | < ToxicFrog> | PHP programmers don't use commit messages? |
| 17:32 | < ToxicFrog> | Alternately, PHP programmers don't know enough to realize they should swear, or they'd be using a different language~ |
| 17:32 | < AnnoDomini> | PHP programmers don't use repositories, they code straight on the production server. |
| 17:33 | < gnolam> | That's a lot of text for not actually stating what he's doing. |
| 17:34 | < Vornicus> | (I also wondered what was up with Lua, but apparently WoW mods put stuff in a WTF/ folder |
| 17:36 | < Vornicus> | (Lua does not appear to be a very wtf-worthy language except that you apparently have to halfway roll your own OO model) |
| 17:37 | < gnolam> | So... he's just grepping for "WTF" in source code then? :P |
| 17:37 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh, this is a different article! |
| 17:38 | < ToxicFrog> | I saw one yesterday that was basically the same thing except looking at commit messages. |
| 18:06 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-ab06ffc6.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Rebootan.] |
| 18:12 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:13 | <@McMartin> | ToxicFrog: Regarding Lua and batch variables |
| 18:13 | <@McMartin> | Can't you just write a batch script that does "set LUA_PATH=" and such? |
| 18:13 | <@McMartin> | And those only operate inside that console session? |
| 18:13 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-577d8499.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:15 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-75c3c27b.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 18:15 | <@McMartin> | Actually, I'll get a chance to test that today for unrelated reasons at work~ |
| 18:16 | <@McMartin> | As for :psyduck:, this is a pretty standard version of DLL Hell, Scripting Language Edition~ |
| 18:17 | <@McMartin> | (Also, I have forwarded this to the telltale people on ifMUD, of which there is at least one) |
| 18:17 | < Vornicus> | ...why :psyduck:? |
| 18:18 | <@McMartin> | This is with respect to a recent post he made on SA about his script for your harvesting Steam account to feed it to Backloggery |
| 18:18 | <@McMartin> | Installing it breaks every product by Telltale Games you have installed. |
| 18:19 | <@McMartin> | Because LUA_PATH starts conflicting. |
| 18:20 | < Vornicus> | I see. But, um |
| 18:20 | < Vornicus> | what's psyduck have to do with anything? |
| 18:21 | <@McMartin> | He uses that emote while describing the problem~ |
| 18:23 | < Vornicus> | Ah, from bulbapedia: "Psyduck are usually unable to think very clearly due to having a chronic headache. Because of the headache, a Psyduck will always hold its head. When these headaches worsen, Psyduck may use psychic powers. " |
| 18:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-psyduck.gif |
| 18:30 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, I got that much. |
| 18:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Used as SA's "what is this I don't even, something this stupid shouldn't exist" emote. |
| 18:31 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: re SET LUA_PATH=: either sammax102.exe itself, or the Steam wrapper that it invokes, sets up its environment by copying the variables directly out of user settings. Or something. |
| 18:32 | < ToxicFrog> | No matter what the parent environment looks like, the environment of the running program includes LUA_PATH if the global environment variable settings include it. |
| 18:32 | < ToxicFrog> | Re: DLL Hell: it is inexcuable to release a program that has the lua interpreter and scripts built into it, but which is still affected by LUA_PATH; in fact, you may need to do extra work to get this effect. |
| 18:33 | < ToxicFrog> | LUA_PATH is used only for dynamic loading of Lua libraries from disk, which this program, as far as I can tell, never actually does. |
| 18:34 | < ToxicFrog> | They are - or at least, should - either be using package.preload (which bypasses LUA_PATH entirely), or be using luaL_loadbuffer (which bypasses the entire module loading subsystem). |
| 18:37 | < ToxicFrog> | This is basically the equivalent of releasing a statically linked application that somehow breaks if LD_LIBRARY_PATH includes a dynamic version of one of the libraries you linked. |
| 18:45 | <@McMartin> | Hm. It's also possible that, being a non-console application, it's ignoring cmd.exe's environment. |
| 18:46 | <@McMartin> | Which means you might need Windows's equivalent of execve. |
| 18:46 | <@McMartin> | ... and the TTG parking lot is still full of police snipers, which may complicate people handling this quickly~ |
| 18:47 | <@McMartin> | (There has been a hostage standoff in the hotel across the street from them for the past several days) |
| 18:49 | <@McMartin> | Mumble. Win32's lack of actual parent/child processes is annoying here |
| 18:49 | < Vornicus> | ...mcwhat |
| 18:49 | <@McMartin> | There has been a crazed gunman holed up in a hotel in San Rafael, CA for the past two days. |
| 18:50 | <@McMartin> | That hotel is, by total chance, across the street from the Telltale Games main office. |
| 18:50 | <@McMartin> | This is, as baf has just observed, "complicating my getting to work." |
| 19:00 | | * McMartin tests the console vs. windows linking, discovers it unhelpful |
| 19:00 | <@McMartin> | OK, it's not that. |
| 19:04 | | * Vornicus eyes this math he's trying to do. Why do e and pi keep showing up, this is number theory and the art of counting, not calculus! |
| 19:06 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: one thing I have noticed is that if I attach a debugger to Steam and then change the global environment settings, Steam's environment changes as well |
| 19:07 | < ToxicFrog> | So it's possible that (a) there's some kind of copy-on-write thing going on with environment variables and/or (b) this is a Steam thing and not a TTG time |
| 19:07 | < ToxicFrog> | *thing |
| 19:07 | <@McMartin> | Hm |
| 19:08 | | Reivles [orthia@Nightstar-75c3c27b.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:08 | <@McMartin> | Steam might be doing something crazy like building its environment strings out of the registry |
| 19:08 | <@McMartin> | (Instead of using GetEnvironmentVariable or GetEnvironmentStrings) |
| 19:09 | <@McMartin> | HKCU\Environment, and HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Environment |
| 19:09 | < ToxicFrog> | >.< |
| 19:10 | < Vornicus> | (the number of derangements of a pile of n distinct things is round(n!/e) ) |
| 19:11 | <@McMartin> | Just confirmed that GetEnvironmentVariable and GetEnvironmentStrings behave as one would hope |
| 19:12 | <@McMartin> | This is not Steve's fault; Gaben is reading Explorer's config files instead of using the API~ |
| 19:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, the >.< is at Steam |
| 19:13 | <@McMartin> | (This is actually kind of funny, because Win32 uses the VMS model of processes; the parent-child relationship is solely "oh, yeah. here's the PID of whoever called CreateProcess on you. You might not even have permission to access that, though." |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Because otherwise I could just SET LUA_PATH=; start sammax*.exe |
| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | Mmm, actually |
| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | Do you have ProcMon.exe? |
| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | (It's one of the SysInternals tools) |
| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | You can do a registry watch on Steam that way |
| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | See if it's hitting up either of the keys I mentioned. |
| 19:16 | <@McMartin> | (CurrentControlSet is a symlink to either ControlSet000 or ControlSet001, so it might show up as that) |
| 19:16 | <@McMartin> | (ProcMon is also the most awesome thing) |
| 19:17 | < ToxicFrog> | I have ProcExp, but not ProcMon |
| 19:17 | <@McMartin> | OK |
| 19:17 | < ToxicFrog> | However, it sounds like something I'd find useful. |
| 19:17 | <@McMartin> | ProcMon is basically dtrace with a terrifyingly powerful filter interface. |
| 19:17 | < ToxicFrog> | :D |
| 19:27 | < ToxicFrog> | What I really find myself wanting right now is a comprehensive set of debugging tools for DOS programs. |
| 19:28 | < ToxicFrog> | EXPIMAGE.DAT appears to be compressed >.< |
| 19:28 | <@McMartin> | DOS? Not Windows? |
| 19:28 | <@McMartin> | The former is harder~ |
| 19:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. Alien Legacy is from 1994. |
| 19:31 | <@McMartin> | Ah. Yeah. |
| 19:31 | <@McMartin> | That is harder. |
| 19:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Experimentation with palettes implies that EXPIMAGE.DAT, the file that contains basically all of the non-animated graphics in the game, is probably compressed in some way. |
| 19:32 | <@McMartin> | 16-bit debuggers >_< |
| 19:32 | < ToxicFrog> | (I've already reverse engineered the palette format - that's simple - but when combined with any of the palettes, EXPIMAGE.DAT comes across as static) |
| 19:36 | | SmithKurosaki [smith@Nightstar-87f33f96.cpe.mountaincable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:22 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 20:54 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-ab06ffc6.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 21:02 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 21:03 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:10 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 21:19 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 22:08 | | Vornicus [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 22:43 | | SmithKurosaki [smith@Nightstar-87f33f96.cpe.mountaincable.net] has joined #code |
| 22:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 23:00 | < Derakon> | Some procedurally-generated images I made while on vacation: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/proceduralImages/ |
| --- Log closed Thu Aug 18 23:22:40 2011 |
| --- Log opened Thu Aug 18 23:22:53 2011 |
| 23:22 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-3762b576.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 23:22 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 23 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal] |
| 23:23 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 38 secs |
| 23:43 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-ab06ffc6.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 23:49 | < RichardBarrell> | Derakon: they remind me of the "Electric Sheep" screensaver. |
| 23:50 | < Derakon> | Hm, interesting. |
| 23:50 | < Derakon> | Of course, my code is hilariously inefficient -- it took my laptop upwards of a minute to generate each of those images. |
| 23:51 | < RichardBarrell> | haloswirl.png in particular. |
| 23:51 | < Derakon> | Going pixel-by-pixel, completely avoiding parallelization, and avoiding hardware acceleration had a lot to do with that of course. |
| 23:52 | < TheWatcher> | Dera: they look neat, well done :) |
| 23:52 | < Derakon> | Thanks. |
| 23:53 | < RichardBarrell> | None of those are actually necessarily a huge problem; you're working on 2GHz CPUs these days. :) What kinds of functions generated those images? |
| 23:54 | < Derakon> | Mostly fiddling around with trigonometry -- rotations, swirls, and the like. |
| 23:55 | < Derakon> | Plus some colorspace transforms. |
| 23:55 | < RichardBarrell> | If it's all calculatable per-pixel without any real shared data then you could turn it into OpenCL relatively easily. |
| 23:56 | < Derakon> | Well, it's done in multiple passes -- e.g. I lay down a grid that serves as my initial pattern, then I transform the grid in each channel, then I layer another transform on top of that, until I'm satisfied with the result. |
| 23:57 | < Derakon> | haloswirl does 10 different actions that touch each pixel of the output image; three generate the base signal and the remaining seven transform it. |
| 23:57 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 23:58 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 23:58 | < RichardBarrell> | Do all of them run over the whole image array in memory order? |
| 23:59 | < Derakon> | Um, pretty sure they do. That'd depend on how numpy handles that stuff. This is all Python. |
| --- Log closed Fri Aug 19 00:00:22 2011 |