| --- Log opened Fri Jun 10 00:00:11 2011 |
| 00:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:10 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
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| 00:25 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 00:30 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:43 | < McMartin> | From this C# manual, regarding ASCII 7: |
| 00:43 | < McMartin> | "Try it, but be prepared for unexpected retro side-effects like growing enormous sideburns and developing an obsession with disco." |
| 00:44 | < Vornicus> | Pfff |
| 01:03 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 01:31 | < jerith> | McMartin: C# doesn't like ^G?~ |
| 01:58 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-9b355782.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Way past my bedtime.] |
| 02:24 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 02:28 | < McMartin> | jerith: It likes it fine. However, anyone using it to make things beep is clearly Highly Retro. |
| 02:39 | < kaz_> | It'll put hair on your chest, then make you wear low-cut polyester suits. |
| 02:39 | | kaz_ is now known as Kazriko |
| 02:46 | < Vornicus> | >_< |
| 02:48 | < gnolam> | I see a future for "Leisure suit K&R". |
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| 04:54 | | * Derakon ponders networked non-realtime (EBZ-esque) space trader game design. |
| 04:54 | < Derakon> | I played a board game recently called Merchants of Venus that was reasonably entertaining but took a fairly long time to get ramped up. |
| 04:55 | < Derakon> | Basically everyone started in the middle of an unexplored universe and spent their turns moving out, discovering alien homeworlds, buying/shipping/selling goods, and upgrading ships. |
| 04:55 | < Derakon> | Seems like the kind of thing that would need frequent universe resets though, since once everything's been discovered trade routes resolve themselves quickly. |
| 04:56 | < Vornicus> | Merchants of Venus. |
| 04:56 | < Derakon> | Yes. |
| 04:56 | < Vornicus> | I gotta hand it to the namer. |
| 05:02 | < Derakon> | Yeah, so anyway, I guess I'd see the game as basically consisting of a mix of exploration and economics, and the reset button gets hit once the galaxy's been explored, giving people points based on their net worth. |
| 05:03 | < Derakon> | So you can explore planets and get paid for introducing new aliens into society, or you can run a business and get paid for addressing planetary needs, selling ships/fuel/upgrades to other players, etc. |
| 05:03 | < Derakon> | Seems like balancing the two approaches could be tricky though. |
| 05:10 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 05:11 | < Vornicus> | I should really get around to learning how to do server-side web stuff in something other than php. |
| 05:11 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 05:11 | < Derakon> | Perl, perhaps~ |
| 05:11 | < Derakon> | PHP's big advantage is the ability to cleanly mix markup and code with the <?php> tag. |
| 05:13 | < Vornicus> | I oculd do the same thing in ruby or asp though. (I don't remember what the ruby module that does that is called, but I've not used ruby in five years now because it really, really ticked me off.) |
| 05:15 | < Vornicus> | and unlike php, ruby at least doesn't stuff all its shit into the global namespace and is actuallyt somewhat sensible. Sometimes. |
| 05:16 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 05:16 | < Derakon> | I still sometimes wish Python had a tighter scoping than "entire function". |
| 05:16 | | shade_of_cpux_ [chatzilla@Nightstar-c978de34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
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| 05:44 | | Vash[Working] is now known as Vash[augh] |
| 05:53 | < Vornicus> | I've never found myself wanting anything tighter than function scope. |
| 05:53 | < ToxicFrog> | Having loop index variables still exist after the loop gives me the jibblies. |
| 05:54 | < ToxicFrog> | Having variables exist before they're created is just crazy~ |
| 05:54 | < Derakon> | One thing I often find myself doing is stuff like "for obj in list: bind event to lambda: doSomething(obj)". |
| 05:54 | < Derakon> | Except that because lambdas are evaluated lazily, that example will always use the value of the last item in list. |
| 05:54 | < Derakon> | So I have to do "lambda obj = obj: doSomething(obj)" to force it. |
| 05:55 | < Derakon> | Which I suspect would be fixed if variables de-scoped at the end of each loop iteration. |
| 05:55 | < Vornicus> | I have no idea what you just said does. |
| 05:55 | < Derakon> | Okay, let's write this out in more detail then. |
| 05:56 | < Derakon> | http://paste.ubuntu.com/623113/ |
| 05:57 | < Derakon> | Whereas if I do "lambda i = i" then I get the desired behavior. |
| 06:00 | < Vornicus> | Oh. No, that actually would not get fixed by block scoping. |
| 06:01 | < Vornicus> | THis is closures keeping last context around, not moment-of-binding context. |
| 06:01 | < ToxicFrog> | Um |
| 06:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Depends on how the language handles lambda creation |
| 06:03 | < ToxicFrog> | s/lambda/closure/ |
| 06:03 | < Vornicus> | THe usual way I handle this is to build a function that handles creating the functions and pass my bind variables to it. |
| 06:04 | < ToxicFrog> | http://codepad.org/sGNX1tdd |
| 06:04 | < Derakon> | I waver between that and using the default-arguments trick to force the behavior I want. |
| 06:07 | < Vornicus> | But yeah. JS and Python both do last context. Apparently lua does moment-of-binding. |
| 06:17 | < ToxicFrog> | It's actually more subtle than that: |
| 06:17 | < ToxicFrog> | http://codepad.org/n0WaU0Uv |
| 06:18 | < ToxicFrog> | Lua binds upvalues by reference; however, loop variables have block scope, and each iteration is considered a seperate scope. |
| 06:18 | < Vornicus> | What is this I |
| 06:18 | < Vornicus> | don't even |
| 06:18 | < Vornicus> | good gravy. |
| 06:19 | | * Vornicus head asplode. |
| 06:19 | < ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 06:19 | < ToxicFrog> | I wasn't expecting that. |
| 06:19 | < Derakon> | Seems reasonable. |
| 06:28 | | * ToxicFrog pokes Vorn with a fish |
| 06:29 | | * Vornicus twitch |
| 06:36 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:37 | < ToxicFrog> | Dude, it's just upvalue binding by reference. |
| 06:37 | < ToxicFrog> | It's not like it's something crazy like retroactive variable declaration in function scope~ |
| 06:41 | < Vornicus> | per-iteration scope changes. |
| 06:46 | < ToxicFrog> | Specifically, variables local to a loop are considered to be redeclared each time the loop executes. |
| 06:46 | < ToxicFrog> | Which strikes me as, well, the only way to do it (given block scope) that isn't extremely surprising. |
| 06:47 | | * kw\blargh stabs her cowworker for stupidity |
| 06:48 | | * kw\blargh pokes Vornicus as well |
| 06:50 | < Vornicus> | ack |
| 06:50 | | * Vornicus twitch in kwsn's general direction? |
| 06:51 | < kw\blargh> | =] |
| 06:58 | | kw\blargh is now known as kw\t-2 |
| 07:01 | | kw\t-2 [kwsn@Nightstar-91f4dc53.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: mer] |
| 07:23 | | Vash[augh] is now known as Vash[Sleeping] |
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| 08:05 | < jerith> | Ooh, we asploded Vorn. |
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| 09:33 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:07 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 10:37 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-5d6d0af3.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: update] |
| 10:44 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-5d6d0af3.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 10:51 | | * TheWatcher stabs the authors of the Open Documment Format in the head with a rusty icepick |
| 12:30 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 12:56 | | Vash[Sleeping] is now known as Vash[Working] |
| 13:23 | | * TheWatcher flails at horrible regexps |
| 13:29 | < gnolam> | Are you giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane? |
| 13:29 | < TheWatcher> | I'm coding in Perl. |
| 13:29 | < TheWatcher> | So, yes~ |
| 13:42 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@C06FE3.F5723C.BE3FEB.9D4666] has joined #code |
| 14:13 | < simon_> | damnit, I hate negotiating salary. |
| 14:13 | < simon_> | I have a completely different idea of the game. |
| 14:14 | < simon_> | it's like a tug-of-war where I think the game is about cooperatively placing the rope on the ground. |
| 14:21 | < Reiver> | Huh. We have no ops. |
| 14:22 | | ServerMode/#code [+ooooooooo AnnoDomini Attilla Derakon[AFK] EvilDarkLord froztbyte gnolam jerith Kazriko McMartin] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 14:23 | | ServerMode/#code [+ooooooooo Namegduf PinkFreud Reiver Rhamphoryncus simon_ Syloqs-AFH Tamber Tarinaky Thaqui] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 14:23 | | ServerMode/#code [+oooo TheWatcher ToxicFrog Vash[Working] Vornicus-Latens] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 14:23 | <@gnolam> | "I have no ops and I must scream" |
| 14:28 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 14:29 | | ServerMode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 14:31 | <@Reiver> | Note: These ops are not permanent because I cannot remember/be arsed to find the code. |
| 14:33 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 14:42 | <@Reiver> | Feel free to make a semihearted attempt at maintaining them, if yer bored. |
| 14:45 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 27 nicks [23 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal] |
| 15:01 | | * TheWatcher arghs at (Open|Libre)Office |
| 15:21 | <@jerith> | Reiver: Maybe set up access lists? |
| 15:21 | <@jerith> | /msg chanserv help access |
| 15:22 | <@jerith> | (You're the founder, so you have to do the first couple. If you add me at a high enough level, I don't mind adding enough other people to handle maintenance.) |
| 15:23 | <@Reiver> | I think that means I need to register my nickname again. :p |
| 15:24 | <@jerith> | Nickserv thinks you're registered and immune to expiry. |
| 15:25 | <@TheWatcher> | I think tha tmeans he needs to remember his password~ |
| 15:26 | <@jerith> | Reiver: "/msg chanserv access #code add jerith 20" should be plenty. Level 10 gives you all non-founder privs, and you can't give others privs at your own level or higher. |
| 15:28 | <@Reiver> | jerith: I am? Cool! |
| 15:28 | <@Reiver> | I should check my scripts to see if I'm autoidentifying myself too, then. |
| 15:32 | <@jerith> | If you weren't, nickserv should be changing you to a guest nick. |
| 15:33 | <@jerith> | (But it might not be. Although "/msg nickserv info reiver" leads me to believe you're identified.) |
| 15:33 | <@jerith> | On the other hand, maybe not. You don't have umode +r. |
| 15:34 | <@jerith> | Meh. I don't know Anope nearly well enough. |
| 15:35 | | * TheWatcher arghs, hairpulls, smacks perl around with its "Not an ARRAY reference" error when the damned thing clearly is one |
| 15:36 | | * jerith had a really weird PHP syntax error the other day. |
| 15:37 | <@jerith> | I was piping a one-liner through the cmdline php terp and it was complaining that my "=" was syntactically invalid. |
| 15:38 | <@jerith> | Spot the issue: echo "<?php $foo = 'bar' ?> foo <?= $bar ?> baz" | php |
| 15:38 | <@jerith> | Took me nearly ten minutes to debug. |
| 16:22 | <@jerith> | <gau_veldt> if IDLE isn't the editor to use anymore, what is?<exarkun> That is a very complex question with many subtle layers. |
| 16:22 | <@jerith> | <exarkun> Fortunately the answer is pretty simple. emacs, duh. |
| 16:23 | <@jerith> | Ugh. Formatting. :-( |
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| 17:49 | <@jerith> | Why on earth is Battle Stations not in revision control? |
| 17:50 | <@jerith> | Oh. Because Inform 7 projects are complicated. |
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| 17:58 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Zon |
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| 18:33 | | * Vornicus-Latens gneegs |
| 18:49 | | AbuDhabi [annodomini@Nightstar-ee39a6af.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 18:49 | | AbuDhabi is now known as ZonNickson |
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| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: what is the issue? |
| 19:34 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Inform 7 projects, last I knew, carried generated things around with it, among other things. |
| 19:38 | <@Caeldir> | Can't you version control them to? |
| 19:38 | <@Caeldir> | Or regenerate them from source? |
| --- Log closed Fri Jun 10 19:43:45 2011 |
| --- Log opened Fri Jun 10 19:43:59 2011 |
| 19:43 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-b4529b0c.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 19:43 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 26 nicks [18 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 8 normal] |
| 19:44 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 49 secs |
| 20:13 | <@McMartin> | There are two files and a couple of (empty) directories you need. |
| 20:13 | <@McMartin> | It does not play well with SVN, but it works fine with Git. |
| 20:14 | <@McMartin> | Everything but the settings, UUID identifiers, and source itself is compiler product, though, not input |
| 20:42 | <@Caeldir> | Hunh. How come it plays well with git but now svn? |
| 21:24 | <@McMartin> | SVN puts metadata in all directories; Git only at the top. |
| 21:25 | <@McMartin> | When I7 regenerates things it cleans out its temp directories, trashing SVN metadata. |
| 21:25 | <@McMartin> | (Actually, I think it regenerates and then does an atomic update, but that's still effectively a whitelist) |
| 21:33 | <@Caeldir> | Hunh. |
| 21:33 | <@Caeldir> | I see. |
| 22:34 | | Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-81b614cb.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:38 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | jerith: I have no idea what the issue is there in that php. |
| 22:38 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | It looks perfectly sensible to me. |
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| 23:32 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 26 nicks [18 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 8 normal] |
| 23:37 | | Rikushadow5 [DSD@Nightstar-5a4542a1.res.rr.com] has joined #code |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jun 11 00:00:26 2011 |