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code logs -> 2011 -> Thu, 10 Feb 2011< code.20110209.log - code.20110211.log >
--- Log opened Thu Feb 10 00:00:28 2011
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05:09 mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by Reiver
05:45
<@McMartin>
Things I don't need: 3 highest priority bugs filed right now.
05:45
<@McMartin>
We were supposed to release yesterday. -_-
05:45
<@Derakon>
Are you still at work?
05:47
<@McMartin>
no
05:48
<@jerith>
;_;
05:49
<@ToxicFrog>
Derakon: re network mount: there's no guarantee that the NTFS ACLs have any mapping to the users on the system that mounts it (in linux), so generally ownership is assumed to lie with the person who mounted the drive.
05:50
<@ToxicFrog>
So, you mount an NTFS drive under linux and you get full write access regardless of the filesystem's configured permissions; then you export that as a network drive and let people remote-mounting it write to the share and you're good.
05:51
<@ToxicFrog>
That said, yeah, this kind of assumes that the system mounting it can write to it, so the reverse case you describe won't work.
05:51
<@ToxicFrog>
(unless it's a permissions issue and not a driver issue, and the network mount daemon is configured to give greater rights to remote users than she has locally)
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16:52 mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver
16:52 * Derakon starts poking at the camera control software.
16:54
<@Derakon>
Some sample variable and function names: gg, q, qq, dddttt, NNnx, adr, f.
16:54
<@Derakon>
Feel that, Sebastian? I'm crushing you with my mind.
16:55
< Namegduf>
You know, if you can find an open proxy you could send him emails entirely comprised of profanity and he'd never know who sent them.
16:55
<@Derakon>
Har.
16:56
<@ToxicFrog>
dddttt?
16:57
<@Derakon>
Appears to be a timeout.
16:57
< Namegduf>
Well that makes perfect sense.
16:59
<@Derakon>
About the only thing I could see that making sense for is a triple-derivative of some function with respect to time.
16:59
<@Derakon>
Fortunately our code doesn't do calculus.
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17:02
<@Derakon>
...okay, this is silly even for Sebastian.
17:02
<@Derakon>
pyAndor_DRV_SUCCESS = pyAndor.DRV_SUCCESS
17:03
<@Derakon>
And then he reads the new variable a couple of times but never writes it.
17:03
<@Derakon>
It's not even saving you a character!
17:03
<@Derakon>
(And no, pyAndor.DRV_SUCCESS is never modified either)
17:06 Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-5ae89f85.cust.tele2.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Going home, see you later.]
17:09
<@Derakon>
Here's another fun one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/565466/
17:10
<@ToxicFrog>
what
17:11
<@Derakon>
Copy all the functions out of a module and insert them into the class's namespace.
17:11
<@Derakon>
Because clearly calling "self.A_foo()" is better than doing "pyAndor.foo()".
17:12
<@ToxicFrog>
Doesn't it only copy them if they aren't callabE?
17:12
<@Derakon>
Er, right, sorry.
17:12
<@Derakon>
The callable ones get wrapped in a function that threadsafes them. I omitted that bit.
17:22
<@Derakon>
Vim to the rescue!
17:22
<@Derakon>
:%s/\(\w\)=\(\w\)/\1 = \2/gc
17:22
<@ToxicFrog>
What does the /c flag do?
17:23
<@Derakon>
Confirm before replacing.
17:25 * Derakon then replaces 102 instances of the pattern "foo,bar" with "foo, bar".
17:25
<@Derakon>
<3 vim.
17:54
<@Derakon>
while 1: ...if 1: break
18:02
< gnolam>
...
18:05
<@AnnoDomini>
WAT.
18:09
<@Derakon>
I blame that pattern on write-once programming.
18:09
<@Derakon>
So long as something works, you never change it. When it breaks, you change as little as possible to get it working again.
18:10
<@AnnoDomini>
Well, yeah.
18:19 * Derakon aghs at this indent style.
18:20
<@Derakon>
Tab-based indenting, curlies on their own lines and their own indent level. Thus the contents of a code block are indented twice from the control statement.
18:21
<@AnnoDomini>
That sounds horrible.
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19:25
< gnolam>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw <- old idea (it has been done at least as far back as the Amiga 500), but it's the first time I've seen a polyphonic version. :)
19:26
<@Derakon>
Silly. I approve.
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21:24 * Derakon eyes this constructor.
21:24
<@Derakon>
Object B is passed in the parent object A, and instead of just storing A directly, creates a weak reference to A which it keeps instead.
21:24
<@Derakon>
("weak reference": does not prevent garbage collection)
21:25
<@Derakon>
AFAICT there is no situation in which A can go away and B would still exist.
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21:27
<@Derakon>
I have to suspect that the reason why weakref is scattered all over this code is that there used to be a memory leak and they didn't know how to go about actually debugging it.
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21:53
<@McMartin>
How does weakref work in Python?
21:54
<@McMartin>
I know in Java weakrefs are actually still strong refs, but you can test to see if they *would* be collected but for the weak refs.
22:00
<@Derakon>
According to the Python docs, weakrefs explicitly do not prevent GC.
22:00
<@Derakon>
"A weak reference to an object is not enough to keep the object alive: when the only remaining references to a referent are weak references, garbage collection is free to destroy the referent and reuse its memory for something else."
22:02
<@Derakon>
In fact, you can specify a callback to invoke when the object your weakref refers to gets GC'd.
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22:28 * Derakon renames the function goInStateDisconnected() to resetToSafe(), since that's what it actually does.
22:36
<@AnnoDomini>
Any Americans awake?
22:36
<@McMartin>
It's 2:30 - 5:30PM in the continental US, I imagine so
22:37
<@AnnoDomini>
What's the format of a US cell phone number and a stationary phone number?
22:38
<@McMartin>
Both are, effectively, identical.
22:38
<@McMartin>
1-(AAA)-BBB-CCCC
22:38
<@McMartin>
AAA is the area code
22:38
<@ToxicFrog>
IIRC, it's the same as in Canada, which is 1-AAA-XXX-LLLL
22:38
<@ToxicFrog>
Area, eXchange, Line.
22:38
<@McMartin>
Aye
22:39
<@ToxicFrog>
A can often be omitted and is inferred from the location you're dialing from (but not always; Guelph, for example, requires the full ten digits)
22:39
<@McMartin>
Looking up specific cities in Wikipedia will often tell you the area codes that serve it.
22:39
<@AnnoDomini>
BBB and CCCC can be arbitrary?
22:40
<@McMartin>
Most American cell phones (maybe Canadian too?) will interpret a ten-digit number as within the "1" country code automatically
22:40
<@McMartin>
Technically, no; for all practical purposes, yes
22:40
<@McMartin>
If you are producing a fictitious phone number, the exchange should always be 555; that is what the 555 exchange is for.
22:40
<@McMartin>
I believe the line number may indeed be purely arbitrary
22:41
<@Derakon>
Generally, 800-series exchanges are toll-free numbers, and 900-series numbers are for special paid services (e.g. phone sex).
22:41
<@Derakon>
Except for 911 which is the emergency contact number.
22:41
<@ToxicFrog>
Derakon: area codes, not exchanges.
22:41
<@McMartin>
800 and 900 are area codes, not exchanges, I believe.
22:41
<@McMartin>
Exchanges have a couple of rules on them IIRC that are designed to make it less likely that an exchange would be confused for an area code or special code.
22:41
<@ToxicFrog>
Toll free is 1-800-*, not 1-*-800-*
22:41
<@Derakon>
Er. Right.
22:42
<@Derakon>
Sorry.
22:42
<@AnnoDomini>
1-480-555-1234 <- Correct Arizona number?
22:42
<@McMartin>
Yes
22:43
<@McMartin>
Specifically, secondary Phoenix metropolitan area, it seems.
22:43
<@McMartin>
Traditionally, however, it's not written in that form unless you're writing for people outside of the US and Canada.
22:43
<@McMartin>
The usual format is (480) 555-1234.
22:44
<@AnnoDomini>
How are they getting around the 10000 numbers problem?
22:44
<@AnnoDomini>
Local calls or something?
22:44
<@McMartin>
By increasing the number of exchanges.
22:44
<@AnnoDomini>
So the 555 would mean it's a very old number?
22:44
<@McMartin>
"Local" is normally anything within the area code, unless the area code is so large it ought to be split.
22:44
<@McMartin>
555 specifically means "This is a fake number"
22:44
<@Derakon>
Exchanges were not created sequentially.
22:44
<@AnnoDomini>
Aha.
22:44
<@Derakon>
Not to my knowledge anyway.
22:44
<@McMartin>
Derakon is right.
22:45
<@McMartin>
If you look at the map for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_code_480 you can see that area codes are themselves also distant.
22:45
< Alek>
as a matter of fact, I seem to recall a change coming into effect a year or two back (although it may just be local) that required all calls, even local, to dial the area code... and include the 1.
22:45
<@McMartin>
Alek: That sounds local; I don't even need the 1 to dial long distance.
22:45
< Alek>
mh.
22:45
< Alek>
that was my suspicion.
22:46
<@McMartin>
Of course, that may also be that my phone is smart enough to count how many numbers I typed (11, 10, or 7) and add the extra numbers to what is sent down the line.
22:46
<@Derakon>
I stick the 1 onto my phonecalls regardless so I don't have to worry about it.
22:46
<@McMartin>
Right
22:46
< Alek>
then again, this IS the area of half a dozen area codes within a 15 mile radius of the city - which has a half-dozen area codes of its own.
22:46
<@McMartin>
Eventually what you describe may become necessary to ensure that no prefix to any phone number is itself a valid phone number.
22:46
<@Derakon>
I hardly ever actually dial a phone number these days anyway, thanks to contact lists.
22:47
< Alek>
yeah, my cell is smart that way. the house phone isn't, otoh.
22:47 * McMartin is 650, but almost everyone he actually calls is 415 or 510 anyhow
22:49
<@Derakon>
Meanwhile I'm 206 because I bought my phone in Seattle.
22:49
<@Derakon>
Every once in awhile I get someone down here who recognizes the area code.
22:49
<@Derakon>
(Area codes do not necessarily have anything to do with where the phone actually is!)
22:50
<@McMartin>
Aha!
22:50
<@McMartin>
Some area codes are overlays.
22:50
<@McMartin>
For example, 760 and 442.
22:51
<@McMartin>
Apparently my home area code is the only one that actually became an apostrophe for the whole region, though.
22:52
<@Derakon>
As in, they needed to add an area code because a large number of areas were running out of space?
22:52
<@Derakon>
So it takes the overflow for all of them?
22:52
<@McMartin>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_code_760#History
22:53
<@McMartin>
And yeah, the San Diego area was sort of grouped in with the entire eastern half of the state apparently and as one of the fastest growing regions therein this is wildly untenable
22:53
<@McMartin>
And, of course, by "the San Diego area" I mean "the 619"
22:55
<@McMartin>
At any rate
22:56
<@McMartin>
In overlaid areas, area codes end up being mandatory even for local calls.
22:56
<@McMartin>
In nonoverlaid areas they do not
22:56
< Alek>
so I guess that's what happened. we got overlaid.
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22:59
<@McMartin>
Aha
23:00
<@McMartin>
AnnoDomini: Here is the full spec, idly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Numbering_Plan#Current_system
23:00
<@McMartin>
Apparently the current standard for fictional numbers is actually 555-01XX
23:02
<@AnnoDomini>
Mhm.
23:02 Reiv [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.36D449.95F5A5] has joined #code
23:02
<@McMartin>
Looking at stuff on international numbers now
23:02
<@McMartin>
It appears that, unlike some systems, the NANP does not in fact distinguish between cell and landline.
23:02
<@jerith>
We have a bunch of "area codes" seta aside for cellphones.
23:03
<@McMartin>
Yeah.
23:03
<@McMartin>
The only place that ever happened here was apparently in NYC
23:03
<@jerith>
08[1234] and most of 07X, I think.
23:03
<@McMartin>
Ha ha ha ha ha
23:03
<@McMartin>
"Area codes, or "numbering plan areas" ending in double digits, such as toll-free 800, 888, 877, and 866, personal 700 numbers, and high-toll 900 numbers, are reserved as easily-recognizable codes (ERCs) and are not issued to actual geographic areas. (Nevada was denied lucky 777 for this reason; it received 775 instead when most of Nevada split from 702, which continues to serve the Las Vegas area.)"
23:04
<@jerith>
Dues to regulatory shenanigans, cell phone operators were different companies from the fixed line operator.
23:04
<@McMartin>
Right
23:04
<@McMartin>
That's mostly true here too
23:04
<@McMartin>
...
23:04
<@McMartin>
Apparently, a Federal court struck down cell-specific area codes when NYC tried it.
23:05
<@jerith>
This meant that each operator got its own area code.
23:05
<@jerith>
And when they ran out, they were issued more. (But that's relatively recent.)
23:07
<@McMartin>
(I take it back slightly; area code 600 is reserved for Canadian cells)
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23:46
<@Derakon>
Ah, I love vim sometimes.
23:46
<@Derakon>
:.,'bg/def /s/^/\r\r
23:47
<@Derakon>
"From here to the previously-defined mark at b, if a line matches the pattern "def ", insert two newlines at the beginning."
--- Log closed Fri Feb 11 00:00:00 2011
code logs -> 2011 -> Thu, 10 Feb 2011< code.20110209.log - code.20110211.log >
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