| --- Log opened Wed Jan 26 00:00:04 2011 |
| 00:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:30 | | * Alek twitches. |
| 00:30 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 00:30 | < Alek> | first Comcast's DNS goes down again, apparently. only this time it's not on the news. |
| 00:30 | < Alek> | this PC works, of course, since I switched to Google DNS last time this happened. |
| 00:30 | < Alek> | I switch it to Google DNS on the other computers. |
| 00:31 | < Alek> | now the internet in general is uberslow. -_- |
| 00:36 | < Alek> | keeps timing out randomly. |
| 00:40 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 01:33 | | Reiv [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.36D449.95F5A5] has joined #code |
| 01:35 | < Reiv> | IIIIIIITS ALIIIIIVE! MUAHAHAHA! |
| 01:40 | | Kimo|OpenGL is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am sad. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | This assignment consists of problems one should be able to answer in about ten minutes each, tops, without special tools. |
| 03:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | If your solution to one of the problems takes up an entire page and requires me to write a program to verify it, I feel confident in saying that you're doing it wrong even if it gets the right answers. |
| 03:33 | < Vornicus> | What kind of problems are these? |
| 03:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Logic circuit problems. |
| 03:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, and state machine problems, but everyone got that one wrong because they only read the first half of the problem. :/ |
| 03:41 | < Vornicus> | oops |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's "like this thing we did in class, but with this key difference" |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | All but two people missed the second half of the sentence. |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | So almost everyone came up with a well-reasoned, internally consistent solution to the wrong problem. |
| 03:44 | | cpux is now known as cpux[KOd] |
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| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | This one, though.. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | (3) reference solution: 6 gates. Optimal solution: 5 gates. His solution: 13 gates. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | (4) reference: 7. Optimal: 6. His: 15. |
| 03:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's at the point where verification by eye is Not Fucking Happening. |
| 03:49 | | * Vornicus wonders what the actual questions are. |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Paraphrased... |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | (1) Consider a combination lock that receives the entered combination as a single event (ie, the keypad buffers entry and sends all three digits at once). Draw state diagram, state table. |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (that's the one everyone read wrong) |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2) Generate t.t. for 4-NOR gate, DeMorgan equivalent, and english description of behaviour. |
| 03:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | (3) Prove that 2-NOR is a universal gate by using it to implement 2-NOT, -AND, -OR and -XOR. Is 2-NAND also universal? |
| 03:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | (4) Design a circuit implementing ?(?(?x??y)??(?x??z)) using only NOT and 2-NOR gates. |
| 03:54 | < celticminstrel> | 2-NOR is...? |
| 03:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | 2-input NOR gate. |
| 03:54 | < celticminstrel> | Oh, and here I thought it was something more exotic. |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | (also, 2-NOT, ... up there should read NOT, 2-...) |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unlike NAND you don't see it very often. |
| 04:08 | < simon_> | ToxicFrog, are you allowed to simplify (4) before implementing it? |
| 04:09 | < Vornicus> | Technically you can just switch what 0 and 1 are and you get NOR from NAND, OR from AND, and EQV from XOR. (and YES from NO. NOT and BUFFER remain the same) |
| 04:10 | < celticminstrel> | EQV? Would that be XNOR? |
| 04:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | simon_: yes, but it won't help because you have to implement it entirely in NOT and NOR; after you simplify it you'll have to de-simplify it again. |
| 04:12 | < Vornicus> | celmin: yeah. |
| 04:12 | < celticminstrel> | I can't imagine a solution to (4) that uses more than 10 gates. |
| 04:12 | < Vornicus> | truth table is 1001 |
| 04:12 | < simon_> | still, those aren't very hard assignments. |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | simon_: they aren't meant to be. It's the second assignment in the introductory digital logic course. |
| 04:12 | < celticminstrel> | I mean, there are ten operations. Using more gates is just dumb. |
| 04:13 | < simon_> | ToxicFrog, ohhh! you're a TA. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | These are small weekly assignments, meant to take less than an hour each and are mostly intended to keep the students in practice with this stuff. The actual challenges come in the lab work |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, I am. |
| 04:13 | < Vornicus> | Seven: not(avb) is 2-NOR |
| 04:13 | < simon_> | I took a formal logic course. now that was awesome! it made me want to do something with Computational Tree Logic or OBDDs/ZDDs. |
| 04:14 | < Vornicus> | And since there's three of those, you drop it down to 7 gates. |
| 04:14 | < Vornicus> | But since you're reusing not(x) you can just wire that output twice. |
| 04:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: it reduces to: (x' nor y') nor (x' nor z'). Seven gates, and as Vorn points out x' is duplicated. |
| 04:15 | < celticminstrel> | Right, Vorn, duh. <_< |
| 04:15 | < celticminstrel> | Forgot the definition of NOR. <_< |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | The solution the prof provided shows all seven gates for clarity; most students wired the x' input into two gates and did it in six. |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | This one is, um |
| 04:15 | < celticminstrel> | 3 NOR and four NOT... |
| 04:16 | < Vornicus> | Which drops you to optimal. Technically if you hit up the various laws you drop down to, um. xyz, I think, if I remember right, but I'm /pretty/ sure that doesn't really help so much... |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not xyz; it's not (x and (y or z)) |
| 04:17 | < Vornicus> | ah, so no, it really wouldn't help much. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | not((not((x' nor y') nor (x' nor y')) nor not((x' nor z') nor (x' nor z'))) nor (not((x' nor y') nor (x' nor y')) nor not((x' nor z') nor (x' nor z')))) |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's what the given circuit translates directly into. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, there is a shitload of redundancy in there. |
| 04:20 | < Vornicus> | wtf |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, XOR using nothing but 2-NOR is, or should be, simple; first you define a' as (a nor a), and then you go (a xor b) = (a' nor b') nor (a nor b). |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Give me a moment to type up the solution provided to that one. |
| 04:23 | < Vornicus> | it's, iirc, 5 gates. |
| 04:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | (((a nor a) nor (a nor a) nor (b nor b)) nor ((b nor b) nor (b nor b) nor (a nor a))) nor (((a nor a) nor (a nor a) nor (b nor b)) nor ((b nor b) nor (b nor b) nor (a nor a))) |
| 04:27 | < Vornicus> | good god. |
| 04:28 | < Vornicus> | ...nor isn't associative, which direction are those nors going in? |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Left-association, sorry. |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...also, it's pretty late, but are you sure it's nonassociative? |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh wait shit |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah |
| 04:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. This is the sort of answer that I really wish behaved incorrectly so that I could give it 0. |
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| 08:08 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 08:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 08:39 | < Reiv> | Anyone here know jack all about Atom processors? |
| 08:39 | | * Reiv is attempting to divine the difference between a last-years model and a this-years model when their clock speed is roughly equivalent. |
| 08:49 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 09:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Reiv: not specific to atom, but look for idle speed, operations per clock cycle, power consumption, cache sizes.. |
| 09:11 | < Namegduf> | Power consumption. |
| 09:12 | < Namegduf> | Oh, yeah, mentioned. |
| 09:12 | < Namegduf> | Look for a generic comparison of the two architectures, if they're different. |
| 09:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Sometimes cost goes down as well, without affecting anything else, but that might not reach the consumer until it's irrelevant |
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| 12:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | Damnation. How do you get the checked/unchecked state of a JCheckBox? |
| 12:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | Nevermind. Found it. |
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| 15:45 | < gnolam> | ComradeBear: http://www.youtube.com/html5 |
| 15:47 | < Namegduf> | I think you have it backwards. |
| 15:48 | < Namegduf> | FF can't handle h.264, just Ogg Theora. |
| 15:48 | < Namegduf> | Current Firefox supports WebM, though. |
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| 20:46 | | * ToxicFrog learns beautiful things about game theory. |
| 20:59 | < Vornicus> | oh? |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 27 00:00:06 2011 |