search of the:   for: 
code logs -> 2011 -> Tue, 04 Jan 2011< code.20110103.log - code.20110105.log >
--- Log opened Tue Jan 04 00:00:37 2011
00:05 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
00:15 You're now known as TheWatcher[ZzZz]
01:20 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-95cbc84e.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code
02:02 Serah [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
02:27 RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
02:28 Serah [Stalker@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code
02:51 cpux [chatzilla@Nightstar-c978de34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code
02:57 Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-473f8685.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code
03:27 Serah [Stalker@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
03:51 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?]
03:56 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
04:07 Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-f398947f.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code
04:09 Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-8bf8867c.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
05:05 celticminstrel [celticminst@1526F6.37AB0D.97233B.788A64] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
05:20 kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
05:22 kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has joined #code
06:05 Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens
07:25 kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
07:32 kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has joined #code
07:57 AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-cde43424.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code
07:57 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver
08:05 SmithKurosaki [smith@Nightstar-e94c2dff.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
08:24 You're now known as TheWatcher
08:31 Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-f398947f.threembb.co.uk] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
08:39 Serah [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code
09:54 Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody
10:01 AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-cde43424.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
10:49 AnnoDomini [annodomini@F67919.F326B3.98D923.BDA7B6] has joined #code
10:49 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver
11:44 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code
12:15 RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code
12:26 cpux [chatzilla@Nightstar-c978de34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
12:28 Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-4764665d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
12:49 AnnoDomini [annodomini@F67919.F326B3.98D923.BDA7B6] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
12:53 Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-ab5be9a3.cust.tele2.se] has joined #code
12:57 Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-ab5be9a3.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
13:02 Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-4764665d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code
13:06 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|work
13:31 AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-cde43424.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code
13:31 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver
14:03 RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Connection closed]
14:03 RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code
16:08 Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code
17:20 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-95cbc84e.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
17:35 RichardB_ [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code
17:36 RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
19:10 RichardB_ [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client closed the connection]
19:37 Kindamoody|work is now known as Kindamoody
19:58 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
19:58 mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver
19:58
<@Derakon>
Anyone know the right way in Python to escape file paths?
19:58
<@Derakon>
Surprisingly, os.path doesn't seem to include a function to do this.
19:59
< Tarinaky>
Escape special characters in paths?
19:59
<@Derakon>
Yeah, like space, apostrophe, etc.
19:59
< Tarinaky>
Try \
19:59
<@Derakon>
...
19:59
<@Derakon>
You don't understand my question.
19:59
<@Derakon>
I want a function in Python that, when handed a string, will identify the characters that are problematic and escape them, for the context for filesystem paths.
20:00
<@Derakon>
That is the right way to solve this problem.
20:00
<@Derakon>
The wrong way is to manually identify problematic characters and add them to a list of characters that get escaped myself.
20:00
< Tarinaky>
Oh I see.
20:13 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-daf2bc97.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code
21:19
<@TheWatcher>
Dera: filename = os.popen("perl -e 'use String::ShellQuote; print shell_quote($ARGV[0]);' -- "+filename).read() *hides*
21:21
< gnolam>
Tssssssssk.
21:21
< gnolam>
Et tu, Machinarium!
21:23
< gnolam>
It has a sliding block puzzle. :P
21:23
< gnolam>
Puzzle crutch of bad designers everywhere.
21:24
<@Derakon>
TW: har.
21:29 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
21:34 * Vornicus is rather surprised that there is not such a function, actually.
21:35
<@Derakon>
So am I.
21:37
<@McMartin>
gnolam: Machinarium is unbelievably terrible in every single aspect except, maybe, looking pretty.
21:37
<@TheWatcher>
Dera: pipes.quote()?
21:37
<@McMartin>
That said, there's a twist to the sliding block puzzle that means I forgive it. But only it.
21:38
<@McMartin>
The Robot Jews puzzle was much worse.
21:38
<@Derakon>
TW: hmm...maybe.
21:38
<@Derakon>
Yeah, I think that does what I need. Awesome.
21:39
<@McMartin>
And... actually, yeah, the whole final region is just an unending stream of WHAT WERE YOU THINKING
21:40
<@McMartin>
That said, Layton is allowed to have sliding block puzzles, both because there it actually fits, and because theirs are designed by someone who actually knows what they're doing.
21:43 Serah [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [Client closed the connection]
21:43 Serah [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code
21:47
< Tarinaky>
McMartin: Plus there's a built-in walkthrough button.
21:47
< Tarinaky>
Which is pretty neat.
21:50
<@McMartin>
Tarinaky: s/pretty neat/an admission of total cluing failure/
21:50
<@McMartin>
And which actually didn't suffice to handle several places I was actually stuck because they split the things you needed to do over a dozen locations, as is normal, bu the wlakthroughs are location specific
21:51
< Tarinaky>
I've not really gotten that far. I've gotten out of the jail cell.
21:51
<@McMartin>
So "Hey, I'm stuck here!" gives you (a) what you already did, (b) the results of the parts you're stuck on, thus not what you need in a walkthrough, and (c) spoilers for the bit that comes later.
21:51
< Tarinaky>
And then I ran out of time.
21:51
< Tarinaky>
McMartin: But it's so very pretty.
21:51
<@McMartin>
Ah. Yeah, gnolam is couple regions further than you.
21:53
< Tarinaky>
Anyway. I wanted to ask... Which is better for producing cross-platform gui tools: Python or Mono?
21:53
< Tarinaky>
*gui-based
21:53
<@Vornicus>
Python has PyQt, which I know works everywhere
21:53
<@Derakon>
Isn't Mono a re-implementation of some Microsoft thing?
21:53
<@McMartin>
Incomplete, too
21:53
<@McMartin>
Getting better, but not there yet.
21:53
< Tarinaky>
It's incomplete in that it's ~ a version behind.
21:53
<@Vornicus>
Mono is MS's .NET thingy
21:53
<@Derakon>
Ah yes.
21:53
<@Derakon>
Then it can't be cross-platform as it doesn't exist for OSX.
21:53
<@McMartin>
Python's native library does not have a lot of good GUI options, but it has some.
21:53
< Tarinaky>
But as I understand it's the 'complete' last version.
21:54
<@McMartin>
And it has bindings for the actually widely used cross-platform GUI tools, depending on GUI type
21:54
< Tarinaky>
Vornicus: Mono is the port of MS's .NET thingy.
21:54
< Tarinaky>
Derakon: There's Mono for OSX.
21:55
<@McMartin>
I would generally personally rate the cross-platform tools for "normal" GUIs as Qt > GTK > wxWidgets.
21:55
<@Derakon>
Tarinaky: Ah? Well, it still falls under my mental umbrella of "''It works in WINE'' doesn't mean it's cross-platform".
21:55
< Tarinaky>
Derakon: I -think- Mono is Source compatible.
21:55
<@McMartin>
Derakon: By this standard, Java isn't cross-platform because you need to download Oracle's stuff on Windows for it to work.
21:56
<@McMartin>
For framebuffer style game-ish GUIs, SDL is the only complete choice - the other alternatives are full engines.
21:56
<@Derakon>
I'll admit to not being fully up on this as I never seriously had cause to consider it, but isn't Mono not fully compatible with .NET? Or am I behind?
21:57
< Tarinaky>
Derakon: Mono is a version behind .NET. .NET is on Version 4, while Mono is only complete for version 3 and below I believe.
21:57
<@Derakon>
Ah.
21:57
<@Derakon>
Anyway, as McM says, I'd go with Qt instead.
21:58
< Tarinaky>
Ah. One of the things pulling me to Mono was the win forms designer.
22:00
<@McMartin>
Qt has a fairly sophisticated designer on its own, though it operates via code generation.
22:00
<@Vornicus>
Technically so does Windows Forms.
22:01
<@McMartin>
Yes, but I haven't used Mono's.
22:01
<@McMartin>
I have used Qt's and it's better than GTK's Glade.
22:01
<@Derakon>
And here I am, stuck on wx...
22:01
<@McMartin>
wx doesn't have one and is generally pretty terrible.
22:01
< Tarinaky>
McMartin: What's the name of the Qt form designer?
22:03
<@McMartin>
It's part of the Qt SDK, but IIRC it's just called "Qt Designer"
22:03
<@McMartin>
The normal install should have it.
22:03
<@McMartin>
There's also "Qt Assistant" which is a specialized API browser, and "Qt Creator" that is a half-assed IDE that can probably be mostly avoided.
22:20
< gnolam>
McMartin: Robot Jews? I thought that was a Robot Mosque.
22:21
< gnolam>
(Or it might be another puzzle)
22:23
<@McMartin>
The Robot Synagogue is two doors down and is part of the same puzzle.
22:23
<@McMartin>
(omg spoilers)
22:26
< gnolam>
Ah.
22:38
< gnolam>
... and now artificially play time-extending minigames.
22:50 Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
23:11 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code
23:17
<@McMartin>
Yes, that was doable off the walkthrough
23:17
<@McMartin>
Also: you haven't seen nothin' yet
23:18
<@McMartin>
The final minigame in the game that isn't unlocking the walkthrough is the worst implementation of its problem space I have ever seen.
23:20
< celticminstrel>
???
23:23
<@McMartin>
Two people here are suffering their way through Machinarium.
23:23
<@Vornicus>
McM: what is the problem space?
23:23
<@McMartin>
Going to PM, since gnolam should get it... unfiltered.
23:23
<@McMartin>
The profanity will be more fun that way
23:23
< celticminstrel>
Ah. I beat the demo of that.
23:23
<@McMartin>
It Gets Worse.
23:23
< celticminstrel>
I'm sure.
23:25
< celticminstrel>
Not going to obtain it at this time though, because this winter I already obtained the Geneforge series, Minecraft, Spore (technically), VVVVVV, SMG, and WarioLand:ShakeIt. That's quite enough games for awhile.
23:25
<@McMartin>
I anti-recommend it.
23:25
<@McMartin>
Machinarium is *terrible*.
23:25
<@McMartin>
VVVVVV, on the other hand, is awesome
23:26
< celticminstrel>
Well, I liked the demo anyway. VVVVVV was indeed great. I beat it the day I paid for it.
23:26 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
23:26
<@McMartin>
You may want to look into Super Meat Boy, then.
23:27
<@McMartin>
It will pose for you an actual challenge.
23:27
< celticminstrel>
VVVVVV did present a challenge, at least in gathering the tokens.
23:27 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
23:27
<@McMartin>
Right, but VVVVVV has this reputation for being legendarily difficult, but on a scale of 1-10, it's really only about a six.
23:27
< celticminstrel>
I'll keep that recommendation in mind, but as I said, I think I need to wait a bit before buying more games.
23:28
<@McMartin>
Yeah
23:28
< celticminstrel>
Ah, I see.
23:28
<@McMartin>
I'd wait for it to go on sale again.
23:28
<@McMartin>
And a lot of the "hard" platformers are actually "dickish" platformers whose primary gimmick is invisible deathtraps (hi there, IWBTG)
23:28
<@McMartin>
SMB, like VVVVVV, plays completely fair.
23:28
< celticminstrel>
I did not like that game.
23:28
< celticminstrel>
It didn't help that the text was garbled in WINE.
23:28
<@McMartin>
Yeah
23:28
<@McMartin>
Heh
23:29 * Vornicus copleted VVVVVV in under 2 hours, including getting all but the absolute easiest of the shiny things.
23:29
< celticminstrel>
Though I've upgraded WINE since, so it may be fixed for all I know.
23:29
<@McMartin>
http://mcmartin.livejournal.com/126445.html
23:29
<@McMartin>
(My discussion of VVVVVV and SMB)
23:29 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
23:31
< celticminstrel>
What was that game where you're a bouncing ball...
23:31
<@McMartin>
Within a Deep Forest, Gumboy, or Cauldron 2, in reverse publication order, IIRC.
23:32
<@McMartin>
Gumboy might have been post-WaDF.
23:32
< celticminstrel>
Oh, it is WaDF after all. That screenshot misled me.
23:33
< celticminstrel>
I'm sure I have that on my hard drive somewhere...
23:33
< celticminstrel>
...should locate it and continue playing.
23:34
<@McMartin>
WaDF is superb
23:34
<@McMartin>
So is Iji, which I will now classify as "Metroid Meets Deus Ex"
23:35
< celticminstrel>
Maybe I should try Metroid sometime.
23:36
<@McMartin>
Eeeeeeeehhhhh.
23:36
< celticminstrel>
?
23:36
<@McMartin>
If you do, play the GBA remake Metroid Zero Mission.
23:36
<@McMartin>
The NES one is pretty much unplayable by modern standards.
23:37
< celticminstrel>
Even with save states? :P
23:37
<@McMartin>
Super Metroid has its fans, but these days the genre definer has wound up being Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
23:37
<@McMartin>
Yes - its problems are that it doesn't explain what anything does, has a huge, sprawling map full of corridors that look basically identical.
23:37
<@McMartin>
MZM includes an automapper, better-structured saving, and generally superior sequencing.
23:37
<@McMartin>
Because they learned a lot while making Super Metroid.
23:38
< celticminstrel>
Okay...
23:38
< celticminstrel>
So, the GBA one is a remake as opposed to a sequel.
23:39
<@Vornicus>
My only disappointment about MZM is that Ridley is a damn wuss.
23:39
<@McMartin>
Well. There are three GBA metroid games.
23:39
<@McMartin>
One is a pinball game and can be ignored.
23:39
<@McMartin>
One is MZM, a remake of Metroid 1.
23:39
<@McMartin>
One is Metroid 4, a plot sequel to Super Metroid.
23:40
<@McMartin>
MZM is "truer" to the Metroid style than Metroid 4 is, because M4 is stricter about plot order.
23:40
<@McMartin>
(Iji uses mobility gates, another defining feature of the genre, but the vast majority are optional and the game proper is actually level-based.)
23:42
<@McMartin>
Vorn: Well, we've also been killing the shit out of Ridley for 25 years now.
23:42 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-daf2bc97.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
23:46
<@Vornicus>
McM: yes, but still. Ridley should not be that easy. He fell over so fast the first time I played I went "What. The. Shit."
23:49 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-daf2bc97.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code
23:49 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-daf2bc97.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
23:50 * McMartin clearly isn't as good at Metroid
23:50
<@McMartin>
But then, Crocomire took *aaaages* for me to take down, and SM!Kraid and Ridley were and are quite tricky for me
23:54 * Vornicus rocks out to the vvvvvv soundtrack.
23:55
<@Vornicus>
in MZM, Ridley is approximately as difficult as Kraid -- mostly because MZM is designed to be sequence-broken.
23:56
<@McMartin>
This is why MZM is more "Metroidy" than M4 - idly - if you sequencebreak M4 the game breaks outright, misassigning powerups and otherwise glitching out.
23:57 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-daf2bc97.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code
--- Log closed Wed Jan 05 00:00:38 2011
code logs -> 2011 -> Tue, 04 Jan 2011< code.20110103.log - code.20110105.log >
 search of the:   for: