| --- Log opened Tue Dec 14 00:00:59 2010 |
| 00:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:37 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-84dba4e0.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 00:42 | | Stalker [Stalker@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:24 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 01:25 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 01:56 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 02:20 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 04:58 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:30 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:48 | | kwsn [chatzilla@Nightstar-467dc0c1.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #code |
| 05:48 | | * kwsn is showing signs of insnaity |
| 05:48 | < kwsn> | *insanity |
| 05:51 | < kwsn> | I'm slowly learning Haskell... and I'm enjoying it o_O |
| 05:51 | | kwsn [chatzilla@Nightstar-467dc0c1.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: brb] |
| 05:52 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-467dc0c1.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #code |
| 05:57 | < Alek> | signs of inanity? |
| 05:59 | | * kwsn bonks Alek |
| 06:20 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 06:21 | | * Alek flrrd. |
| 06:22 | < Alek> | hey kwsn, do you Steam? |
| 06:22 | < kwsn> | yes |
| 06:22 | < Alek> | can I friend you please? |
| 06:22 | < Alek> | just need 1 more for treasure hunt... |
| 06:22 | < kwsn> | my profile URL should be KWSN |
| 06:23 | < Alek> | when I try to add, it gives a omgyjya.switch person o_O |
| 06:25 | < Alek> | searching on community, there seems to be a group [KWSN] |
| 06:25 | < Alek> | and 2 people called just kwsn |
| 06:25 | | * kwsn snickers |
| 06:26 | < Alek> | accept please? |
| 06:30 | < kwsn> | sorry |
| 06:36 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | kwsn: Haskell is <3 |
| 07:02 | < kwsn> | it is when you write a function that would normally take several at least in the space of one line |
| 07:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Haskell is <3 until monad poisoning sets in and then it becomes D: |
| 07:08 | < kwsn> | oh? |
| 07:10 | < Alek> | monad? |
| 07:10 | < Alek> | is that a dyslexic nomad? |
| 07:11 | <@Vornicus> | a monad is a thing in haskell that depends on state. |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's actually more general than that. |
| 07:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | But the typical use of monads in Haskell is to implement stateful operations like IO or a statebucket. |
| 07:12 | <@Vornicus> | Monad poisoning is when more and more things have monads somewhere in their dependency chain, which brings the whole thing to a screeching halt because haskell likes statelessness. |
| 07:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I tend to run into it a lot because my instinctual structure for a program has stateful operations at the bottom of the call stack, which means that in Haskell the entire program ends up in (say) the IO monad and things go downhill from there. |
| 07:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Haskell likes you to put your stateful operations at the top, where they can do stateful things and then call the rest of the program to do the actual work. |
| 07:16 | <@Vornicus> | what actually /happens/ in monad poisoning? I mean I get that it sucks, but other than that Idunno what's going on. |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | Basically you have a chain of data dependencies on input or output that keep having it at points in the middle of the operation. |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | And that keeps doing it |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | Like, if you processed from a file a character at a time, instead of writing it as "read a list from a file, process that list" |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | Since Haskell is lazily-evaluated, it *actually does* process it a character at a time anyway |
| 07:37 | <@Vornicus> | Aha |
| 07:55 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-b7603f12.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 08:08 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 08:24 | | kwsn is now known as kwsn\t-2 |
| 08:26 | | kwsn\t-2 [kwsn@Nightstar-467dc0c1.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: bleh, life] |
| 09:13 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 09:32 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:45 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 09:56 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:12 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-b7603f12.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 10:23 | | Stalker [Stalker@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 11:15 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @jerith, @Kazriko, Stalker, kazrikna, Kindamoody, PinkFreud |
| 11:15 | | Netsplit over, joins: @jerith, PinkFreud, Stalker, Kindamoody, @Kazriko, kazrikna |
| 11:16 | | kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:18 | | kazrikna [kazrikna@Nightstar-843a343b.arkaic.com] has joined #code |
| 11:24 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-4764665d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 12:08 | | * TheWatcher vaguely stabs emacs' hs-minor-mode |
| 12:09 | <@TheWatcher> | why are you complaining about mismatched parenthesis in this when doing hs-hide-all, damnit? They are not bloody mismatched anywhere |
| 12:13 | | * TheWatcher discovers why, bleeghs |
| 12:14 | <@TheWatcher> | apparently hs-minor-mode isn't treating consecutive lines of perl comment as one comment block, so an open paren on one line will be considered mismatched even if there is a close on the next. Damnit. |
| 12:40 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 13:14 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 13:29 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 13:58 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-b7603f12.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 14:09 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-473f8685.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 14:14 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 14:15 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:15 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 15:31 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 17:20 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-d78bd8f6.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 17:20 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 17:21 | | Attilla is now known as Prophet |
| 17:25 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as ItIsAMystery |
| 17:26 | | Anno[Laptop] is now known as Elloge |
| 17:30 | | Stalker [Stalker@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:13 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:16 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 18:30 | | ItIsAMystery is now known as Maze |
| 18:33 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 19:18 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 19:22 | < gnolam> | http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2010/Dec/102 <- Mmmm, competence |
| 19:25 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | ...whups |
| 19:26 | < RichardBarrell> | Teehee. |
| 19:40 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 19:48 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:50 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 20:06 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:07 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 20:13 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-4764665d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 20:15 | | Stalker [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code |
| 20:16 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:19 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 20:32 | | Stalker [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [[NS] Quit: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.] |
| 20:34 | | Stalker [Stalker@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code |
| 21:43 | | Elloge is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 21:43 | | Maze is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 21:43 | | Prophet is now known as Attilla |
| 22:03 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:03 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 22:03 | | * Derakon cheerfully reaches through the space-time continuum and strangles Sebastian again. |
| 22:03 | <@Derakon> | "global fig, c, d, i, ii, dLen" |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | I bet his first kid is named "a" |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | Or "X". |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | H |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | Because he is human |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | Actually |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | sebH |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | ;_; |
| 22:05 | <@Derakon> | ls = []; ls += experimentMarkerList |
| 22:05 | <@Derakon> | Someone doesn't know about the list() function. |
| 22:06 | <@Derakon> | (I think I renamed experimentMarkerList from something more hellish the last time I touched this code, with a ten-foot pole) |
| 22:06 | <@Derakon> | (Sadly, today is more in-depth. On the plus side, I get to bleach the codebase a bit more.) |
| 22:08 | <@McMartin> | BURN IT IN THE ELDRITCH CLEANSING FLAME OF THE KROTITES |
| 22:12 | <@Derakon> | ...that's the worst "insert onto beginning of list" syntax I've ever seen. |
| 22:12 | <@Derakon> | foo[:0] = [newItem] |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | :0 indeed. |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | (For reference, you should use "foo.insert(0, newItem)") |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | (Which has the advantage of being, y'know, legible) |
| 22:13 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | Also probably much faster than slice splicing. |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | Though in this case, there's no need for the new item to go on the front of the list anyway. |
| 22:18 | <@McMartin> | Ha ha ha |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | OK, I have a new answer for the 'is data singular or are data plural' question. |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | While the correct answer is that 'data is the plural of datum but can also be used in the singular as a collective noun', a clearly superior answer is: |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | "'Data' is a proper noun. |
| 22:19 | | * Derakon snerks. |
| 22:37 | <@Derakon> | I just love how the variable "dd" gets aliased to "d" in some places, but in other places, "d" is an entirely separate variable. |
| 22:38 | <@Derakon> | Too blasted to think of anything remotely descriptive, were you, Sebastian? |
| 22:40 | <@Derakon> | ...aaaaaarrrrgh, why do you have a special function whose only purpose is to pass arguments along to numpy.zeros? |
| 22:41 | < Namegduf> | Is it because reusing code without having to make changes to it is his god? |
| 22:42 | <@Derakon> | Instead of calling "N.zeros((x, y), N.float32)", he calls "F.zeroArrF(x, y)". |
| 22:42 | < Namegduf> | Ah. He just liked making things shorter. |
| 22:42 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, by ten fucking characters. |
| 22:43 | <@Derakon> | But really, I shouldn't be surprised. See also the line I entered on. |
| 22:43 | <@Derakon> | "global fig, c, d, i, ii, dLen" |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | dd[-1:,0] = d[i-1::-1,0] * -1 |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | As far as I can tell, this takes the first column in the "d" array, flips it upside-down, multiplies it by -1, and inserts it into the first column of "dd". |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | Oh, the first -1 should be -i, my mistake. |
| 22:52 | | RichardBarrell [user@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 23:00 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-d78bd8f6.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:08 | <@Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/deleteerror.png |
| 23:15 | < celticminstrel> | XD |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | I will never understand this idiom: |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | if foo: |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | pass |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | else: |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | do stuff |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | I've done that in C - it's a debugging aid. |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | You breakpoint on the pass. |
| 23:21 | <@Derakon> | But once you've debugged your code, you rewrite it to be cleaner. |
| 23:21 | < RichardBarrell> | In Python, people *might* do it in theory just because it saves writing a "not". |
| 23:22 | < RichardBarrell> | I'd have to double check the bytecode to be certain, but it may be a stupid micro-optimisation. |
| 23:22 | | * Derakon eyes MCV. |
| 23:22 | <@Derakon> | If you're micro-optimizing at that level but you're still writing Python, then you don't understand how to optimize. |
| 23:22 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: ... no? Because you may want to do it in the future or add logging or etc and any remotely competent C optimizer will remove the branch entirely? |
| 23:22 | <@Derakon> | McM: yeah, I'm not talking about optimization, I'm talking about readability. Ehh. |
| 23:23 | <@McMartin> | Maintainability > readability > optimization, imo |
| 23:23 | <@McMartin> | The first two rarely come in conflict, but when they do... |
| 23:25 | < RichardBarrell> | In the context of Python specifically, there is an "optimizer" but it isn't even remotely competent. |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, but if you seriously care about optimality, you'll at least be writing Cython or something similar. |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | Micro-optimizations are not what Python is about. |
| 23:39 | < RichardBarrell> | I never said it was a *good* justification. It's just a possible justification. |
| 23:40 | < RichardBarrell> | I've seen dumber things, like Python code written avoiding defining and using function calls as much as mathematically possible. |
| 23:55 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 15 00:00:01 2010 |