| --- Log opened Thu Dec 02 00:00:35 2010 |
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| 02:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | What's the purpose of duck punching? |
| 02:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I believe some languages are built on the assumption of snack fucking, although of course they don't call it that |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Well |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Snake fucking is a way of implementing exceptions in machine code. |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | The polite name for it is "stack cutting" or "stack unwinding" depending on whether you do it a frame at a time or all at once. |
| 02:42 | < celticminstrel> | C++ refers to stack unwinding... |
| 02:43 | <@McMartin> | Yes. C++ has to use unwinding because of the way destructors work. |
| 02:43 | < Namegduf> | All in favour of revising all references to stack unwinding to snake fucking? |
| 02:43 | < celticminstrel> | No. |
| 02:43 | < celticminstrel> | Stack unwinding is an infinitely better term. |
| 02:43 | <@McMartin> | Stack unwinding can be implemented without snake fucking, depending on how you design your ABI. |
| 02:43 | < Namegduf> | Clearly, we have different priorities, celticminstrel. |
| 02:44 | < celticminstrel> | Bah. |
| 02:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | AIUI, stack unwinding is orthogonal to snake fucking; the idea behind snake fucking is editing the stack so that when you re-run the code that raised the exception, it works. |
| 02:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | As for duck punching - say you have a thing that behaves like a string, but you need to pass it to a function that expects something that duck types as a file. So you slap :read :write :seek into it, a no-op :close method, a position member (for :seek to play with), and there you go. |
| 02:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | There: you've punched it into the shape of a duck. |
| 02:54 | | * kwsn defeated f#, or well, her program ^_^ |
| 02:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Congrats? |
| 02:57 | < kwsn> | and i'm feeling a little crazy... cause i wanna tackle haskell next ._. |
| 02:58 | < kwsn> | ToxicFrog: first full program i made using a functional language |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Congrats, then! |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | What does it do? |
| 02:58 | < kwsn> | hold on |
| 02:58 | < celticminstrel> | Defeated what? |
| 02:58 | < kwsn> | http://www.uwplatt.edu/csse/Courses/CS352/352p2.txt |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: F# is a functional language targeting the CLR. |
| 02:59 | < kwsn> | yes it's for ruby but it does the same thing (we wrote it in ada as well) |
| 03:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, a lexer. |
| 03:00 | < kwsn> | http://www.uwplatt.edu/csse/Courses/CS352/352l7.txt the specs for the F# ver |
| 03:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I kind of want to return to Haskell. |
| 03:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a cool language but somehow it never seems to fit whatever I'm doing. |
| 03:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I end up using Lua or Scala instead. |
| 03:02 | < kwsn> | i'm going to learn scheme next semester |
| 03:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | \o/ |
| 03:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Scheme is delicious |
| 03:04 | < kwsn> | heh |
| 03:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although I still need to finish SICP) |
| 03:06 | | * gnolam still hasn't really figured out why he likes Scheme but can't stand CL. |
| 03:06 | < kwsn> | CL? |
| 03:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Common Lisp. |
| 03:06 | < kwsn> | ah |
| 03:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | gnolam: because Scheme is a relatively simple and clear language, whereas CL is the Perl of Lisps? |
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| 06:56 | <@jerith> | Scheme is a teaching language. |
| 06:56 | <@jerith> | CL is a production language. |
| 06:56 | <@jerith> | This means the latter is both messier and more flexible than the former. |
| 06:59 | <@Vornicus> | CL also appears to have been written without the benefit of the concept of "standard libraries don't enter the namespace until you tell them to" |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | Quite. |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | Because that's how lisp machines work. |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | The last puzzlegame I played was OpenGL and Scheme. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | By way of Gambit-C. |
| 07:08 | <@McMartin> | Gambit is amazing |
| 07:08 | <@Vornicus> | What's Gambit? |
| 07:08 | <@McMartin> | A fully R5RS-compliant Scheme-to-C compiler. |
| 07:08 | <@McMartin> | Including first-class continuations. |
| 07:08 | <@Vornicus> | ...hot damn |
| 07:09 | <@jerith> | Shiny. |
| 07:09 | <@Vornicus> | I didn't know that was anywhere /near/ possible. |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | (QuantZ was written in it) |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | I assume it's using some kind of runtime-plus-data action as part of this translation |
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| 08:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:24 | | * TheWatcher flails vaguely at GD, and string wrapping |
| 10:25 | | * TheWatcher also stabs bioinformaticians |
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| 15:57 | <@jerith> | So, code generation. |
| 15:57 | <@jerith> | I can generate the code that needs generating, but calling it is problematic. |
| 15:58 | <@jerith> | Eclipse refuses to compile, because it can't find the code that only gets generated at compile-time. |
| 15:59 | < EvilDarkLord> | Is it nontrivial to call your compiler from somewhere else? |
| 15:59 | <@jerith> | I'm writing an Android app, and there's a bunch of magic that the Eclipse plugin does that I'd prefer not to have to reverse-engineer. |
| 16:01 | | * jerith tries using static initialisers to do naughty things. |
| 16:04 | <@jerith> | Aargh! Using an interface is /hard/, because the processor thing needs to see it. |
| 16:16 | | * jerith makes it (hopefully) work and fires it up in the emulator. |
| 16:19 | <@jerith> | Apparently not. |
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| 20:12 | | * froztbyte sends jerith additional supplies of black magic |
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| 21:55 | <@jerith> | froztbyte: I made it work. Now I have to make it clean. (Insofar as that's possible.) |
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| 23:07 | < Alek> | http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/non-regular-pendrive/ |
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| 23:20 | < celticminstrel> | Does Dijkstra's algorithm count as "dynamic programming"? |
| 23:20 | <@McMartin> | That's an interesting question, actually |
| 23:21 | < celticminstrel> | That sounds vaguely ominous. |
| 23:22 | <@McMartin> | It means I can't answer definitively off the top of my head, and my algorithm-fu is Pretty Good |
| 23:23 | < celticminstrel> | I think it was covered in class, but it's not in the dynamic programming section of the notes, but it sounds vaguely like dynamic programming. |
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| 23:24 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. It's going to be a corner case either way. |
| 23:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I suspect the answer is "no, because it doesn't involve recursive division into overlapping subproblems, but it uses some of the same techniques" |
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| --- Log closed Fri Dec 03 00:00:36 2010 |