| --- Log opened Fri Sep 10 00:00:34 2010 |
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| 04:17 | < celticminstrel> | test |
| 04:18 | < celticminstrel> | test |
| 04:22 | < Sacred> | you pass |
| 04:23 | < celticminstrel> | Sorry, I was checking whether /amsg broadcasts to all servers. Apparently it does. <_< |
| 04:25 | < Sacred> | I started learning shell programming, and now perl...and truly amazed at how mirc scripting is so similar to both |
| 04:25 | < Sacred> | so glad I learned it (although half-forgotten) now |
| 04:26 | < celticminstrel> | Perl... that's one language I have little interest in. |
| 04:26 | < Sacred> | I'm just wanting it for it's parsing abilities |
| 04:27 | < Sacred> | I'd rather learn python, it just seems like a bit more fun |
| 04:27 | < celticminstrel> | It's not the only one with good parsing abilities. |
| 04:27 | < Sacred> | what would you recommend, as a good one to learn for just that reason |
| 04:27 | < celticminstrel> | I dunno. |
| 04:27 | < Sacred> | always open to new ideas |
| 04:27 | < Sacred> | oh ok |
| 04:28 | < celticminstrel> | Just pointing out that it's not alone, really. Not making any recommendations. I could make recommendations, of course, but I don't feel like it right now. <_< |
| 04:29 | < Sacred> | no worries, never hurt to ask...thanks anyways |
| 04:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sacred: Off the top of my head...awk for small stuff. Lua has a PEG combinator and notation library. Scala has a general purpose parser combinator library, as does Haskell. |
| 04:35 | < Sacred> | Thank you |
| 04:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | For that matter, most languages have some sort of context-free parser generator or combinator library, if not full PEG support. |
| 04:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | But typically you want one in which string manipulation is not liquid pain. |
| 04:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Those are just the languages I favour. |
| 04:50 | < Tarinaky> | Hello. |
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| 07:08 | < Vornicus> | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa too many game ideas |
| 07:08 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 07:28 | < simon_> | better than too few! |
| 07:30 | < Vornicus> | And waaay too little skill to pull any of them off. |
| 08:02 | < Alek> | share? |
| 08:09 | < simon_> | bbl |
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| 19:47 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 19:47 | | * Derakon finishes diving through the bowels of the output of py2app. |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | It...really doesn't work as well as it should. :\ |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | In this particular case, it was failing to load a .so file that it had inserted into the application bundle, because it was looking in /System instead of in said bundle. |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | There's a script that tries to determine the path to the .so file; it searches through sys.path for the first entry that ends in "lib-dynload", and if that doesn't work then it gives up. Of course, the only entries in sys.path with "lib-dynload" in them are for directories in /System, not the application bundle. |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | Also, this is the first time I've seen a for-else construct. |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | :( |
| 19:49 | < celticminstrel> | A what? |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | for path in sys.path: do some work...else: raise ImportError() |
| 19:49 | < celticminstrel> | ...how does that work? |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | I'm not certain. |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | I believe what happens is that the else block executes iff the for loop finishes normally. |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | But it's just bizarre-looking. |
| 19:51 | < celticminstrel> | Quick test reveals that yes, that's how it works. |
| 19:51 | < celticminstrel> | The else is skipped if a break is executed. |
| 19:51 | < celticminstrel> | It is strange though. |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | More details on my particular problem here: http://old.nabble.com/py2app-program-unable-to-find-files-in-lib-dynload-td29679 814.html |
| 19:56 | <@Derakon> | I see the utility now -- it's useful for "is there an entry in this list that matches this condition? If so, do this action" type-loops, for example. But it's such a bizarre construct that I can't help but think it'd do more harm than good to incorporate it into my code... |
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| 21:34 | < RichardBarrell> | Playing with node.js right now. I have come to the conclusion that callbacks are the best thing since sliced bread. |
| 21:34 | < RichardBarrell> | Also, IRC is an *obscenely* well designed protocol. I can barely believe how painless it is to write an IRC client. |
| 21:36 | < Vornicus> | It's pretty simple, usually. |
| 21:36 | < Anno[Laptop]> | IRC FTW. |
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| 21:36 | < TarinakyKai> | I thought it was painless to write an IRC client more because of the simplicity than design? |
| 21:37 | < TarinakyKai> | I mean. If you can't send plain text over network you've got issues~ |
| 21:40 | < RichardBarrell> | The simplicity is the best part of the design. |
| 21:43 | < TarinakyKai> | I don't think it counts when you do very little with very little :p |
| 21:44 | <@Derakon> | You'd be amazed how often people try instead to do a lot with a lot. |
| 21:44 | <@Derakon> | Those efforts tend to fail, or produce bad designs even when they work. |
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| 21:58 | <@jerith> | Writing a basic IRC client is pretty easy. |
| 21:58 | < Alek> | how about a functional one? |
| 21:58 | <@jerith> | Writing a /good/ one, on the other hand... |
| 21:58 | <@Derakon> | Writing a good IRC client has nothing to do with the protocol and everything to do with UI. |
| 21:58 | <@jerith> | IRC is a fantastic protocol right up until you want to keep track of modes and things. |
| 22:00 | <@jerith> | Derakon: Every time you see a -o, you need to get a nick list from the server to see if you need a +v. |
| 22:00 | <@Derakon> | Are there many such state problems to keep track of? |
| 22:01 | <@jerith> | Enough to be annoying |
| 22:01 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 22:01 | <@jerith> | Then there are a bunch of different servers that have different rules about connection handshakes. |
| 22:09 | | * Derakon blarghs, wants to go home early today. |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | But instead I get to wrestle with py2app some more. |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | The state of standalone Python programs on OSX is frankly embarassing. |
| 22:21 | | * jerith made py2app work! |
| 22:21 | <@Derakon> | I have as well, but it's always a trial. |
| 22:22 | <@jerith> | I mostly copied the py2exe stuff the other guy had done for the project. |
| 22:22 | <@Derakon> | In this case, I have to hand-hack __boot__.py to insert a path variable. |
| 22:23 | <@Derakon> | And even that just makes a program that works on my computer but not others. |
| 22:23 | <@Derakon> | When I try on other computers, it can't find the frickin' os module. |
| 22:38 | <@jerith> | Do you tell it to include it in setup.py? |
| 22:41 | <@Derakon> | ... |
| 22:41 | <@Derakon> | It's a built-in module. It's part of the language! |
| 22:43 | <@jerith> | I'm not sure if it's necessary. |
| 22:43 | <@Derakon> | It's not. |
| 22:43 | <@jerith> | We have "logging" and "encodings" specified in ours. |
| 22:44 | <@Derakon> | Much of the point of py2app is that it's supposed to automatically figure out your dependencies. While this is buggy at times (I have another app that has to manually include cytpes because the OpenGL library uses it but py2app doesn't realize this), it's generally functional. |
| 22:44 | <@Derakon> | (And by "manually include" I mean "the base module of the program has pointless includes to point py2app in the right direction") |
| 22:45 | <@Derakon> | But this is failing before it even gets to my code; the failure is in __boot__.py when it tries to to 'import os', which should never, ever fail. |
| 22:53 | <@Derakon> | The annoying thing about this is that I encountered the exact same problem a couple of months ago, spent days working on it, eventually got it working, and didn't figure out what exactly I'd changed to fix it. |
| 22:53 | <@Derakon> | Everything I wrote down doesn't work in this case. |
| 23:04 | < TarinakyKai> | http://i.imgur.com/5btf4.png |
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| 23:37 | < RichardBarrell> | Teehee. |
| 23:37 | < RichardBarrell> | I now have a shonky-as-Hell IRC bot that can be killed by ctcp pinging it. |
| 23:38 | < RichardBarrell> | (Specifically, it has a function handleCTCPrequest(){throw "unimplemented";}) |
| 23:39 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
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| 23:52 | < TarinakyKai> | RichardBarrell: Isn't ignoring the request better behavior? |
| 23:52 | < RichardBarrell> | TarinakyKai: violent seppuku is a better reminder, though. :) |
| 23:52 | < RichardBarrell> | I have it ignoring all kinds of requests that it genuinely doesn't understand, but CTCP has a placeholder specifically because I plan to come back and fix that later. :) |
| 23:53 | < TarinakyKai> | Ah. |
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| --- Log closed Sat Sep 11 00:00:35 2010 |