search of the:   for: 
code logs -> 2010 -> Mon, 16 Aug 2010< code.20100815.log - code.20100817.log >
--- Log opened Mon Aug 16 00:00:36 2010
00:33 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
00:33 Bobsentme [aa47fc22@Nightstar-4fab16c5.mibbit.com] has joined #code
00:35 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
00:39 Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-66efdaa0.ct.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
01:45 Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
01:45 mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by Reiver
01:51 Vornicus is now known as Finerty
05:11 Finerty is now known as Vornicus
05:13 * Derakon ponders.
05:14
<@Derakon>
I have a working triangulation system already.
05:14
<@Derakon>
Do I really need a Delaunay triangulation?
05:14
<@Derakon>
Given that I intend to toss most of the edges anyway.
05:14
<@Derakon>
Ehh. *off to CIV*
05:21
<@McMartin>
"Weaselry at its finest"
05:32
< Bobsentme>
heh
06:06 Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code
06:21 Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-bbc709c4.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code
06:41 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
07:07 AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-e2bf5f44.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code
07:07 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver
07:52 Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code
08:07
< Alek>
"Well, those designers sure are funny guys. Made up a sign for a hospital clinic, with a simple font by the name of 'Necropolis'."
08:23 Bobsentme [aa47fc22@Nightstar-4fab16c5.mibbit.com] has quit [G-Lined: Session limit exceeded]
08:52 cpux [cpux@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code
08:55 shade_of_cpux [cpux@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
08:55 cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux
09:07 Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-c5f3565b.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
09:09 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:11 Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-c5f3565b.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
10:51 Orthia is now known as Reiv
11:47 TarinakyKai [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code
11:48 Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Operation timed out]
11:49 Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens
12:30 Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-bbc709c4.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited]
12:54
< TarinakyKai>
Gah. I'm trying to get back into python but struggling to find something in the documentation.
12:55
< TarinakyKai>
The contents of Tuples are all of the same type right? What data type do I want when I want to tie together two different data as part of a structure?
12:55
< TarinakyKai>
A class is a bit overkill for this and I can't remember if a list would do or not.
13:01
<@ToxicFrog>
Pretty sure tuples are not homogenous
13:02
<@ToxicFrog>
>>> (1, True)
13:02
<@ToxicFrog>
(1, True)
13:02
<@ToxicFrog>
In fact, I'm pretty sure none of python's data structures are homogenous, but don't quote me on that. I know lists and tuples aren't, though.
13:05
< TarinakyKai>
Oh.
13:06
<@ToxicFrog>
(this is also the kind of thing that's probaby faster to test yourself than looking up in the docs)
13:06
< PinkFreud>
you sure? in perl, lists and such require scalars. if you wanted to include arrays, hashes, and other data types, you'd merely use a reference, which itself is a scalar.
13:06
< PinkFreud>
I'd be surprised if python didn't have a similar requirement.
13:07
<@ToxicFrog>
Yes, I'm quite sure.
13:07
<@ToxicFrog>
Python, thankfully, isn't Perl.
13:07
< PinkFreud>
heh
13:08
<@ToxicFrog>
>>> [ [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9], True, False, { "foo": "bar" } ]
13:08
<@ToxicFrog>
[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9], True, False, {'foo': 'bar'}]
13:08
<@ToxicFrog>
^ a list containing three lists of numbers, two booleans and a dictionary
13:09
< PinkFreud>
yes, but [1,2,3] would evaluate as a reference to an array, would it not?
13:10
< PinkFreud>
thus, you're merely throwing scalars into an array
13:11
< PinkFreud>
@array = ([1,2,3], {"foo" => "bar"});
13:11 * TarinakyKai hasn't touched Python and is struggling to get back in it... caught himself wondering how to create an empty dictionary in a classes __init__
13:11
< PinkFreud>
that's valid perl
13:11
< TarinakyKai>
+in a while
13:13
< simon__>
PinkFreud, there isn't one syntax that returns a value and another that returns a reference for lists and dicts.
13:14
< simon__>
TarinakyKai, {}? or maybe you figured that out :P
13:15
< PinkFreud>
heh
13:17
< TarinakyKai>
simon__: I figured out I didn't need to.
13:17
< simon__>
ok
13:17
< TarinakyKai>
Hence the "Caught myself wondering how to do something nobody needs to do"
13:17
< TarinakyKai>
Because python is strange and magical :/
13:18
< simon__>
I occasionally do that.
13:18
< simon__>
(create empty dicts and fill them)
13:19
< TarinakyKai>
I realised that the act of filling the dictionary will create it.
13:19
< TarinakyKai>
Anyway. Currently trying to work out if I can unpack a tuple in a function's argument list.
13:20
< TarinakyKai>
ie: def foo(self,ArgA,(ArgB,ArgC)):
13:20
< simon__>
tuple[0]
13:20
< TarinakyKai>
Although thinking about it... I probably shouldn't unpack it anyway.
13:21
< simon__>
oh, I don't think python is cool enough for that.
13:22
< simon__>
I think that would require recursive pattern matching on function arguments.
13:24 Stalker [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code
13:52
< TarinakyKai>
Hunh. Apparently I -do- need to create empty Dictionaries before I can fill them!
14:17 Stalker [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
14:22 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini, @jerith, Reiver
14:23 Netsplit over, joins: ~Reiver, @jerith, @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini
14:24 mode/#code [+o Syloqs-AFH] by Reiver
14:27 celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code
14:38
< TarinakyKai>
Stupid question. If I map(operator.add,tuple1,tuple2) that returns the sum of two vectors right?
14:39
< TarinakyKai>
Not the sum of the permutations.
14:40 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini, @jerith, @Reiver
14:41 Netsplit over, joins: ~Reiver, @jerith, @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini
14:41
<@jerith>
I'd do [a+b for a, b in zip(tuple1, tuple2)], though.
14:41
< TarinakyKai>
I have no idea what that means.
14:41
<@jerith>
It's a list comprehension.
14:42
<@jerith>
Think of it as a neat syntax for a bunch of map() and filter() calls.
14:43
<@jerith>
zip([1,2,3], ['a','b','c']) => [(1,'a'),(2,'b'),(3,'c')]
14:44
<@jerith>
Listcomp syntax is basically [<transformation of item(s)> for <item(s)> in <iterable> if <predicate expression>]
14:45
<@jerith>
You can have multiple "if" and "for" clauses, but that starts to get a little tricky to make readable.
14:47
<@ToxicFrog>
PinkFreud: Python continues to be unlike Perl (or rather, Perl continues to be unlike most other things); there's no scalar/reference distinction even for things like lists which are passed by reference.
14:48
<@ToxicFrog>
Python's behaviour is much closer to Lua or Java than to Perl or C.
14:48
< Reiv>
ToxicFrog! May we ask you a favor?
14:48
< Reiv>
wait nm jerith got it~
14:48
<@ToxicFrog>
Murr?
14:49 * Reiv was hoping for someone with Scary Oper Powers to do a minor favor.
14:49 * ToxicFrog pokes Python's map() with a stick. map(f, list, list) == map(f, zip(list, list)) ?
14:49
<@jerith>
In [1]: map(lambda a, b: a+b, [1,2,3], [4,5,6])
14:49
<@jerith>
Out[1]: [5, 7, 9]
14:50
<@jerith>
In 2.5+, at least.
14:50
<@ToxicFrog>
Yeah, I just tested it in 2.6
14:50
<@ToxicFrog>
Just seems weird to me.
14:51
<@jerith>
It doesn't hurt, and it can be useful.
14:52
<@jerith>
Especially since it doesn't evaluate the whole zip().
14:55 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini, @jerith, @Reiver
14:56 Netsplit over, joins: ~Reiver, @jerith, @Kazriko, @McMartin, shade_of_cpux, @AnnoDomini
14:56
< PinkFreud>
ToxicFrog: as you noted, Perl does tend to act like C
14:57
< PinkFreud>
so it's not entirely out there on it's own. :)
14:57
< PinkFreud>
Reiv: and what's up?
14:57
< celticminstrel>
But Perl doesn't have pointers, right?
14:58
< PinkFreud>
celticminstrel: references.
14:59
<@ToxicFrog>
PinkFreud: yes, but it's unusual among HLLs in that.
14:59
< PinkFreud>
$ perl -e '@{$a} = qw (foo bar); print "$a\n"'
14:59
< PinkFreud>
ARRAY(0x1905df0)
15:00
< PinkFreud>
ToxicFrog: I'd agree. there's not too many scripting languages that act like a lower level lang like C.
15:02
< PinkFreud>
or, for a way to test the type of reference in use...
15:02
< PinkFreud>
$ perl -e '@{$a} = qw (foo bar); print ref $a, "\n"'
15:02
< PinkFreud>
ARRAY
15:19
< TarinakyKai>
Also: Mein gotts! This task is really hard now I try and work through it :/
15:22
< TarinakyKai>
I have a buffer that's generated from tiles. Rather than regenerate the contents of that buffer when it's translated, I only want to 'fetch' the bits of the buffer through loading the sides when they become empty.
15:23
< TarinakyKai>
Then just scrolling them into, and out of, view along with the rest of the buffer.
15:23
< TarinakyKai>
What I'm struggling to do is come up with a way to work out when the sides are exhausted.
16:07 Stalker [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code
16:19
< TarinakyKai>
Things I dislike about Python #1,247: I have no idea whether anything is being passed by value or by reference.
16:29
<@ToxicFrog>
Er? The manual is quite clear on this, IIRC.
16:30
<@ToxicFrog>
Everything mutable is passed by reference; everything immutable is passed by reference internally, but since it's immutable you can't tell the difference anyways.
16:32
< celticminstrel>
I think the general rule is that lists, dictionaries, and objects are passed by reference; all other values (numbers, tuples, strings) are passed by value.
16:32
< TarinakyKai>
I meant more conceptually.
16:33
< TarinakyKai>
Since I don't know what a function's arguments will be.
16:33
< celticminstrel>
That's what type() is for?
16:34
< TarinakyKai>
It's a lot of work that requires a lot of thought on a lot of issues.
16:37
< TarinakyKai>
Can lists be turned into tuples easily?
16:37
< TarinakyKai>
I notice list comprehension only returns lists.
16:38
< celticminstrel>
Yes. tuple(x)
16:38
< celticminstrel>
You can use the list comprehension syntax within parentheses instead of square brackets, but I think that yields an iterator or something, not a tuple.
16:43
<@ToxicFrog>
TarinakyKai: what does not knowing a function's arguments have to do with pass by reference vs by value, given that everything for which it makes a difference is passed by reference?
16:46
< TarinakyKai>
ToxicFrog: Dynamic typing makes my skin crawl? :p
16:47 * TarinakyKai blinks. I have a tuple that's refusing to be assigned... a tuple.
16:48
< celticminstrel>
Tuples are immutable.
16:48
<@ToxicFrog>
TarinakyKai: ok, but what does that have to do with pass by reference vs pass by value?
16:48
< TarinakyKai>
ToxicFrog: Not much.
16:49
< TarinakyKai>
celticminstrel: So how do I put these values into this variable. :/
16:49
< TarinakyKai>
I mean... Yeah...
16:49
< celticminstrel>
Make it a list instead of a tuple, I'm guessing?
16:49
< TarinakyKai>
TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
16:50
< TarinakyKai>
On line: self.tableBuffers[i][1] = TargetPosition
16:50
< celticminstrel>
Yeah, just make it a list instead.
16:50
< TarinakyKai>
Which one?
16:50
<@ToxicFrog>
The one that's a tuple?
16:50
< celticminstrel>
Yeah.
16:50
< TarinakyKai>
THEY'RE BOTH TUPLES
16:51
< celticminstrel>
Then make them both lists.
16:51
<@ToxicFrog>
The one you're trying to modify, then.
16:51
<@ToxicFrog>
You cannot modify tuples in place.
16:51
< celticminstrel>
You can't assign to the elements of a tuple.
16:51
< celticminstrel>
Lists and tuples are pretty much the same apart from that, though.
16:51 * TarinakyKai blinks...
16:51
<@ToxicFrog>
(that would be self.tableBuffers[i] in this case)
16:51
< TarinakyKai>
I'm not assigning to the elements of a tuple though.
16:52
<@ToxicFrog>
self.tableBuffers is a tuple of tuples, though, from what you've said
16:52
<@ToxicFrog>
Which means that self.tableBuffers[i][1] is an attempt to assign to the first element of the tuple self.tableBuffers[i]
16:52
< TarinakyKai>
No. It's a dictionary actually.
16:52
<@ToxicFrog>
A dictionary of...?
16:52
< TarinakyKai>
"Oh."
16:53
<@ToxicFrog>
(try dropping into interactive mode and doing type(self.tableBuffers) - it'll say <type 'dict'>)
16:53
<@ToxicFrog>
(then do type(self.tableBuffers[i]) and it'll say <type 'tuple'>)
16:56
< TarinakyKai>
Right.
16:56
< TarinakyKai>
Now I just have to figure out why it's not scrolling.
17:18 * AnnoDomini forever damns LIT conversion under Linux.
17:19 * TarinakyKai boggles at the amazing refusing to change despite having values assigned to it variable.
17:22 * ToxicFrog eyes TarinakyKai
17:22
< TarinakyKai>
Well. At least I'm getting it to throw errors now.
17:23
< TarinakyKai>
Wish I knew what KeyError: 1 was.
17:23
< Namegduf>
It means that there's no key in the dictionary equalling "1"
17:25
< TarinakyKai>
Ahah. Thanks.
17:27
< TarinakyKai>
So now it appears to not be registering keyboard events properly.
17:36
< TarinakyKai>
... Why have key events stopped working.
17:39
<@AnnoDomini>
Infinite loop?
17:39
< TarinakyKai>
No. They're working now. Bizarre :/
17:40 Reiver [reaverta@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
17:41 Reiver [reaverta@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
17:41 mode/#code [+qo Reiver Reiver] by ChanServ
17:42
<@AnnoDomini>
Sun spots.
18:27 SmithKurosaki [Smith@Nightstar-cc72cefe.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #code
18:33 TarinakyKai is now known as Tarinaky
18:39 shade_of_cpux [cpux@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
19:57 Namegduf [namegduf@Nightstar-5c10d129.beshir.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
19:57 Namegduf [namegduf@Nightstar-5c10d129.beshir.org] has joined #code
21:04 aoanla [AndChat@7C1B03.122F4E.4B6C83.00B894] has joined #code
21:17 * TheWatcher ponders what to do if a thread attempts to flush a shared cache while one or more entries are locked, decides that such a situation indicates a sufficient level of b0rkage to just kill everything outright
21:19 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
21:23 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Alek, @Vornicus, aoanla, @Syloqs-AFH, Zed, SmithKurosaki, @ToxicFrog
21:23 Chi [omegaboot@Nightstar-c5f3565b.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
21:24 Netsplit over, joins: aoanla
21:24 Vornotron [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
21:24 AgentIchiro [Smith@Nightstar-cc72cefe.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #code
21:24 Netsplit over, joins: Zed
21:24 Vornotron is now known as Vornicus
21:25 AgentIchiro is now known as SmithKurosaki
21:26 ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
21:26 mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by Reiver
21:26 Syloq [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
21:27 Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH
21:53 aoanla [AndChat@7C1B03.122F4E.4B6C83.00B894] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
21:56 Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has joined #code
21:56 mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver
21:56
<@Derakon>
Today I completely changed the layout for the program again.
21:56
<@Derakon>
Fun times.
21:56
<@Derakon>
Fortunately, just moving windows around is pretty straightforward.
21:56 PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
21:56
<@Derakon>
(The change this time is that the center display is now back in landscape mode instead of portrait mode)
22:03 Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed]
22:08 Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-bbc709c4.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code
22:40 Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Connection closed]
23:27 Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
23:43 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
23:48 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
--- Log closed Tue Aug 17 00:00:37 2010
code logs -> 2010 -> Mon, 16 Aug 2010< code.20100815.log - code.20100817.log >
 search of the:   for: