| --- Log opened Fri Aug 06 00:00:31 2010 |
| 00:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:18 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code |
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| 01:24 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c57d3675.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: I hunger. And sleep.] |
| 01:39 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 05:47 | <@Derakon> | Anyone know the proper command in SVN to check which revision I have checked out? |
| 05:47 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 05:49 | <@Derakon> | Nevermind. svn log got me what I needed. |
| 06:13 | < SmithKurosaki> | My bf has gone insane... He wants a gentoo install |
| 06:14 | <@Kazriko> | Ack. :p |
| 06:39 | <@McMartin> | Quick! Give him a copy of Fedora and/or Ubuntu before it's too late~ |
| 06:45 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 07:09 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:35 | <@jerith> | Derakon[AFK]: svn info |
| 07:36 | <@jerith> | It gives you both the most recent revision and the revision with the most recent change in the current subtree. |
| 08:31 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-1fac3e84.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 08:31 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 08:59 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
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| 09:36 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:38 | < SmithKurosaki> | mcm: he has ubuntu 10.04 and for semiundderstandable reasons, doesnt wan fdora |
| 09:39 | | * TheWatcher sees no problem with wanting gentoo; has 5 machines that run it himself. |
| 09:39 | | * TheWatcher is also insane, so |
| 09:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Aaand, png saving of SDL surfaces: working \o/ |
| 09:59 | <@McMartin> | \o/ |
| 10:00 | <@McMartin> | Is this going to be published/available? |
| 10:00 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 10:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Certainly - I'm doing some cleanups and a few more tests, and then it's ready for release, probably under BSD |
| 11:22 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 12:36 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 13:03 | < simon__> | cool |
| 15:34 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 15:51 | | * TheWatcher tries to decide whether to add this stuff to a sourceforge page, or just self-host it as normal |
| 15:56 | < Namegduf> | I dislike dealing with projects that host on Sourceforge personally; it's just so slow. |
| 15:57 | < Namegduf> | But it does have a lot of tools available. |
| 15:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, I run my own server, so tools aren't an issue (although integration thereof, more so). Hm. |
| 16:00 | | * TheWatcher shrugs, goes to start making dinner, will think on it |
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| 16:57 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
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| 19:29 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 20:33 | | * TheWatcher vaguely pokes at gitweb to add syntax highlighting through Andre Simon's highlight |
| 20:40 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: Launchpad? |
| 20:40 | <@jerith> | (For your SDL/png.) |
| 20:41 | <@jerith> | It likes bzr, though. |
| 20:41 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm currently favouring git right now. This is likely to change sooner or later, but for now.. *shrug* |
| 20:42 | <@jerith> | Then github, maybe? |
| 20:42 | <@McMartin> | Sourceforge itself does Git too these days, ofc |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | Given the choice between a Sourceforge-hosted thing and a dramatically inferior thing cobbled together out of spirder and sealing wax, I tend to poke at the latter for a day or two to see if I can make it work. |
| 20:43 | < Namegduf> | Haha. |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | Github or Gitorious are good, and not nearly as bad as Sourceforge. |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | Funnier if you drop "dramatically inferior" unless your intent is to say your opposition is ideological |
| 20:44 | <@jerith> | Sourceforge is incredibly painful to operate and seems to take great joy in hiding stuff and misdirecting people. |
| 20:44 | <@TheWatcher> | jerith: I'm going to just host it myself, for now. I have git-daemon, bug tracking, and potentially forum already. I'm just poking at gitweb because I have this thing about syntax highlighting. |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | McMartin: My intent is to say that if the best option is buried in Sourceforge, the second-best option is the one I go for. |
| 20:46 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 20:46 | <@jerith> | My opposition isn't /really/ ideological, except insofar as I don't want to support (by ad-views, etc.) a service so horrifically bad. |
| 20:47 | <@jerith> | Also, s/spirder/spiders/ |
| 20:49 | <@TheWatcher> | (also, the only thing I'd really get from sf/github/etc is greater visibility, and I'm not sure I want that until I thrash this stuff a bit more to make sure there's no surprises) |
| 20:50 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: Isn't that the kind of thing greater visibility helps with? |
| 20:51 | < Namegduf> | I dunno that just being hosted on those gives greater visibility, though. |
| 20:51 | <@jerith> | Why bother with unit tests when you have customers to uncover the bugs?~ |
| 20:51 | < Namegduf> | Gitorious and I believe github are helpful for the fork/merge request thing |
| 20:51 | < Namegduf> | Which are nice for submitting patches. |
| 20:51 | <@TheWatcher> | jerith: hah |
| 20:52 | < Namegduf> | Aside making it easier for that, I'm not sure that there are people who aren't otherwise users who would just find it. |
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| 21:42 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 21:42 | <@Derakon> | Oof. Long meeting this morning discussing the UI work I've been doing. |
| 21:42 | <@Derakon> | Nominally I was leading the meeting, but my boss kept interrupting me and keeping things from moving along so he could go off on irrelevant tangents. >.< |
| 21:42 | <@Vornicus> | oof meetings |
| 21:42 | <@Vornicus> | ew. |
| 21:43 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-1fac3e84.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: I'll be back.] |
| 21:43 | <@Derakon> | Got a fair amount of negative feedback too, which wasn't helped by said boss basically saying "You all are too conservative and aren't willing to give my grand vision a chance." |
| 21:44 | <@Derakon> | In short, I don't feel like I was in control of the discussion. :\ |
| 21:45 | <@Derakon> | Okay, rant done. |
| 21:45 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-689c9c54.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code |
| 21:57 | <@jerith> | That was a very mild rant. |
| 21:57 | <@jerith> | Want to try again with a bit more vitriol? |
| 21:57 | <@jerith> | Possibly even some bile? |
| 21:59 | <@Derakon> | No thanks, I prefer my gallbladder where it is. |
| 22:00 | | * Derakon is currently doodling out an alternate layout. |
| 22:00 | <@Derakon> | The good news of all of this is that the actual hard bis of the UI work I've been doing were well-received. |
| 22:01 | <@Derakon> | Mostly the complaints were aobut where things were positioned. |
| 22:01 | <@Derakon> | (e.g. putting commonly-accessed controls on a separate display from the camera readouts) |
| 22:03 | <@Derakon> | And also that having the displays oriented vertically has a severely detrimental effect on the useful field of view for the displays. |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | So my doodles now have two 1920x1024 displays stacked one on top of the other, with the third display oriented vertically at 1200x1920. |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | Dunno how we're gonna mount the two displays, but we'll figure something out, and I bet it won't even involve duct tape. |
| 22:04 | | Stalker [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code |
| 22:05 | <@jerith> | :-) |
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| 23:08 | | * Derakon shows his doodles to the biologists and his boss. |
| 23:08 | <@Derakon> | <Biologists> Yeah, that looks much better. |
| 23:08 | <@Derakon> | <Boss> Bah, it looks terrible. |
| 23:09 | <@Derakon> | About par for the course... |
| 23:26 | <@TheWatcher> | What you need is a theme engine of some kind~ |
| 23:29 | <@Derakon> | Or a boss button~ |
| 23:30 | < Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: Won't that just triple his work load? |
| 23:31 | <@Derakon> | Actually, the way we seem to be going, every UI element will be in its own window, so users can just drag them around the way they like... |
| 23:37 | <@TheWatcher> | http://forums.starforge.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=296#p296 - first beta version of the SDL image save code |
| 23:39 | <@Derakon> | TW: first reaction: "Why not just use pygame.image.save()?" |
| 23:40 | <@Derakon> | It's been awhilie since I checked so I'm guessing that similar facilities don't exist in all languages. |
| 23:40 | <@TheWatcher> | There is no equivalent in c/c++ |
| 23:41 | <@TheWatcher> | SDL_image lets you load, but the only save in the C version of SDL is the BMP save in SDL's video stuff |
| 23:41 | <@Derakon> | Second reaction: "Okay, so build a Python terp into your program, hand it the surface, and use it to save the file"~ |
| 23:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Hah |
| 23:41 | <@Derakon> | (Third reaction: "Just write your program in Python") |
| 23:42 | <@TheWatcher> | I seem to be detecting a... trend here. |
| 23:42 | <@Derakon> | I don't have a clue what you're talking about. |
| 23:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Mmhmm ;) |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | TheWatcher: The design implications here point very strongly to an endgame where you try to get them to integrate this directly into SDL_image |
| 23:46 | <@Derakon> | Wasn't gnolam going on one of his stabhappy rants about being unable to write files with SDL awhile back? |
| 23:47 | <@McMartin> | He was unable to convert from a loaded image into an OpenGL texture, IIRC. |
| 23:47 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 23:48 | <@McMartin> | My own project along these lines is in fact a direct bind from libpng to OpenGL to let you no longer require SDL_image just for that. |
| 23:49 | <@TheWatcher> | McM: I suspect I would need to support more formats before I could suggest something along those lines in good conscience. |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | TW: Hm. I thought SDL_Image only supported those two itself. |
| 23:51 | <@Derakon> | "It loads images as SDL surfaces, and supports the following formats: BMP, GIF, JPEG, LBM, PCX, PNG, PNM, TGA, TIFF, XCF, XPM, XV " -- http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_image/ |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | Off that list, the only other two it is at all important to be able to write are TIFF and TGA |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | And honestly, TGA is a "maybe"~ |
| 23:52 | | * TheWatcher nod |
| 23:52 | <@Derakon> | I don't think I've even heard of XCF/XPM/XV. |
| 23:52 | <@Derakon> | The "XCF" file extension sounds vaaaaaaaguely familiar, but I couldn't tell you anything about it. |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | XPM is an X Pixel Map, and is the kind of thing X Windows uses to represent icons. |
| 23:53 | <@McMartin> | I'm most used to seeing them as auto-generated C headers full of raw bitmap data. |
| 23:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: XCF is gimp's format |
| 23:53 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 23:53 | <@Derakon> | This kind of thing is what ImageMagick is for~ |
| 23:53 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: The XCF is Berkeley's now-defunct Experimental Computing Facility in Soda Hall. |
| 23:54 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | BMP base SDL already has. GIF you can make a case you should avoid (though a 'turn this set of frames into an animation' library would be a shiny, different project). |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | If PNM is what I think it is that's the same story as GIF. |
| 23:54 | <@Derakon> | (Again, this is what ImageMagick is for~) |
| 23:55 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: There's a case to be made that an end-user will want to create TGA or TIFF directly - probably because they're dumping data intended to be loaded into some kind of digital device. |
| 23:56 | | * TheWatcher eyes libtiff, hmm |
| 23:56 | <@McMartin> | Once you have one of them, you then have the trinity of encoding *types* - lossy (JPG), lossless (PNG), and uncompressed (TIFF, TGA). |
| 23:56 | < RichardBarrell> | Didn't the enlightenment project come up with something like "imlib2" which is supposed to both read and write every image format that anyone has yet heard of? |
| 23:56 | <@McMartin> | RichardBarrell: There's still the matter of interfacing it with your blitter. |
| 23:57 | < RichardBarrell> | McMartin: is that more difficult than copying pixels in a loop? |
| 23:59 | <@McMartin> | Depends on how you do it, because the native format has no particular guarantees of being a readily-addressible pixmap |
| --- Log closed Sat Aug 07 00:00:31 2010 |