| --- Log opened Tue Jul 27 00:00:20 2010 |
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| 00:43 | < gnolam> | ToxicFrog: the steam game had an interesting idea, but you pretty much /had/ to use the manual valve (which took a lot of the fun out of it), and once you got the steam cannon you could just gun your way through the rest of the game. |
| 00:45 | <@Vornicus> | Arg. |
| 00:45 | <@Vornicus> | Why is it that I always want to make /something/ but I never want to make /anything in particular/ |
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| 00:56 | < gnolam> | Vornicus: Explain. |
| 01:00 | <@Vornicus> | I go "man I wanna make an Interactive Fiction!" and then I sit there trying to think of what I want to be in it, and I can't think of anything. |
| 01:00 | <@Vornicus> | For instance. |
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| 01:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | gnolam: I only had to use the manual valve once. |
| 01:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I'm pretty sure that with some work I could eliminate that use of it. |
| 01:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, yes, the steam game feels more like a prototype than a real game. |
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| 02:56 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
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| 03:58 | < Orthia> | Vorn: A common minor request for DFs ASCII ARTZ EXTREEM would be to simply /make the game utf8/ |
| 03:59 | < Orthia> | And instead of Blue S Is A Snake, Red S Is A Scorpion, have one character per Thing. |
| 03:59 | < Orthia> | ... And then let the artists have at it with character sets. |
| 04:01 | <@Vornicus> | Or, you know, JUST FUCKING USE SPRITE SHEETS |
| 04:02 | < Orthia> | Yeah, but see, that'd take actual work~ |
| 04:02 | <@Vornicus> | Not all that much. |
| 04:02 | <@Vornicus> | It already pulls things from a sprite sheet. |
| 04:03 | < Orthia> | Let me put it this way - the attempt is to get Toady to improve the UI. |
| 04:03 | <@Vornicus> | It's just that there's a lot of collisions and for some ungodly reason Toady decided to use paletting. |
| 04:03 | < Orthia> | I believe the rule of thumb on this is "Haha, sprite sheets? You're kidding, right? You hopeless romantic." |
| 04:03 | < Orthia> | "We'll be going back to our campaign to beg him to screw with a couple lines of code now." |
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| 04:05 | <@Vornicus> | Seriously, this shit should be in data files /anyway/ |
| 04:05 | < Orthia> | I think it is partly a psychological thing: If he's going to integrate sprite sheets, this counts as Upgrading The Graphics Engine, and thus he would rather Upgrade The Graphics Engine when it is time (aka 'hahahahaha yeah right' in Realworldian) |
| 04:05 | < Orthia> | But could you maybe just switch the ASCII to UTF-8 and uniquecode all the doods, so all our talented artists can have a little more freedom when doing their homebrew art sets? |
| 04:07 | < Orthia> | Note the subtle difference~ |
| 04:09 | <@Vornicus> | Actually I'm saying that the code's almost entirely already done, this is mostly removing certain restrictions. |
| 04:10 | <@Vornicus> | Right now, there's two or three sprite sheets you can use: the 256-character "ASCII" sheet, and the somewhat larger "Dwarf Jobs" sheet. You can see the latter in most graphics mods people have made. |
| 04:10 | < Orthia> | Yeah |
| 04:11 | < Orthia> | Oh, I see what you mean. |
| 04:11 | < Orthia> | You suggest he constructs a new sheet that has uniques for each one, even if he does not actually /use/ it? |
| 04:11 | <@Vornicus> | Right now, however, most critters and stuff use the ASCII sheet, and in fact are /required/ to - you can't make a fresh sheet and send things off to it. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, Reiv, even taking into account how terrifying most of the DF codebase is, from what I've heard and seen, full tile support is maybe an afternoon of work. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Most of it is already done. |
| 04:13 | <@Vornicus> | Well, not /full/ tile support - full tile support would require things such as layers and stuff. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | He wouldn't even have to make the sprite sheets, just make the changes that permit sprite sheets and people like Dystopian will have sprites for everything before you can blink. |
| 04:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm using "full" here in the sense of "every object in the game can have its own sprite" |
| 04:15 | < Orthia> | I suspect this counts partly as "But I don't care about the graphics now let me get back to allowing puppies to strangle themselves with their own necrotised entrails" designer priorities ¬¬ |
| 04:15 | < Namegduf> | To be fair, those priorities are why one plays DF. |
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| 04:16 | <@Vornicus> | Or in my, and I think Reiver's and TF's cases, why one does /not/ |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I play DF quite a lot, actually. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, the UI is an abomination. |
| 04:17 | <@Vornicus> | oh, right, you're a Goon, you do such things. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | It does kind of make sense - this is an alpha, and from Toady's perspective, it doesn't have a UI yet, just a debug interface |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, a UI that sucks less wouldn't be a great deal of work and would have a lot of benefits and I'm aggravated that he won't do it and won't release enough of the source to let other people do it. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although, who knows? He released the rendering code and it worked out great - it's now cross platform and performance is hugely improved. |
| 04:19 | < Namegduf> | And it can now run on a Linux system in an actual terminal emulator. |
| 04:19 | < Namegduf> | Rather than being ASCII, but OpenGL. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, seriously? It has a tty mode? |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | When did that happen? |
| 04:23 | < Namegduf> | A while ago, I think. |
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| 05:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: looking at the diffs, it's new in 0.31.x, probably 0.31.5+ |
| 05:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: I was playing DF long before I was a goon. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 28 00:00:22 2010 |