| --- Log opened Tue Jun 08 00:00:27 2010 |
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| 00:25 | < celticminstrel> | What is a zip, anyway? Cartesian product? |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | No. |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | Cartesian product of [1, 2] and [x, y] is [(1, x), (1, y), (2, x), (2, y)] |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | Zip is [(1, x), (2, y)] |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | It's turning a tuple of lists into a list of tuples |
| 00:27 | < celticminstrel> | Ah, so the zip of several lists is like writing them one per row in a table, then taking the columns as the result? |
| 00:27 | < McMartin> | Right |
| 00:28 | < McMartin> | (Usually it's also exactly 2 lists.) |
| 00:40 | < McMartin> | ... in a comment |
| 00:40 | < McMartin> | //TODO: (missing feature) needs to be supported...YARRRRGGG!!!! |
| 00:46 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:48 | < Derakon> | A few days ago I was going through the codebase at work and removing unneeded variables. |
| 00:48 | < Derakon> | I found three in a module that were written once, to another module's namespace, and then never read. |
| 00:48 | < Derakon> | Today I got some time on the scope to test the changes I'd made. |
| 00:49 | < Derakon> | And I kept getting random crashes. |
| 00:49 | < Derakon> | Which went away if I put back those three variables. |
| 00:49 | | * Derakon sighs. |
| 00:52 | <@Vornicus> | wtf |
| 00:53 | < Derakon> | My best guess is we're doing something horribly wrong with memory in the C portion of the program. I've had past reasons to believe this is the case. |
| 00:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | That would imply access to globals though |
| 00:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I don't see why that would rearrange the heap at all |
| 00:57 | < Derakon> | Rhamph: no, I mean, "the size of the Python interpreter that is loaded by the C code is Significant". |
| 00:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, python variables |
| 00:57 | < Derakon> | This is a C program that does almost everything in Python, not a Python program that uses C for the finicky bit. |
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| 01:27 | < celticminstrel> | ...what? |
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| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: the core of the program is written in C. It then creates a Python interpreter and exposes parts of itself for Python to work with, then loads some python scripts to do the control. |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Python is embedded. |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | The converse, python is extended, is where the main program is written in Python but loads C libraries to solve specific problems. |
| 02:13 | <@Vornicus> | This is not to say, however, that the core language has to be C |
| 02:14 | <@Vornicus> | There are FORTRAN python extensions; you can use Python libraries in Lua.. |
| 02:22 | <@Vornicus> | You can even use Cython or Psyco to create libraries that Python can use... and build them to machine code. |
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| 07:28 | < simon_> | is anyone here into P2P protocols? |
| 07:29 | < simon_> | I wonder how searching for keys in a distributed hashtable works using a string that only partially matches. |
| 07:34 | < simon_> | let's say I have a key, "funny thing", that hashes to 0xbeef, and that it is stored in a DHT. searching for "funny" in the attempt to find the (key,value)-pair for "funny thing" should require a hash function in which "closeness" between two hashes means something to the relevance of searches, but that doesn't seem to be what people are doing. |
| 07:35 | < simon_> | I can only make DHTs (or hashtables in general) make sense if you know what you're looking for. |
| 07:38 | < Alek> | I prefer 0xdeadbeef |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | afaik DHTs are only used for exact searches (for that exact hash value), not for string searches |
| 07:41 | < simon_> | Rhamphoryncus, that makes sense. I think I mixed up two things: sharing information about which files are available, and sharing metadata on file transfers of specific, known files. |
| 07:41 | | * Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 08:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:44 | < McMartin> | ARGH, I am awakened by a Turing machine in symbols of fire |
| 08:45 | < McMartin> | I have a sudden insight on how to do Officers awesomely. |
| 08:52 | < Orth> | haha |
| 09:17 | | * McMartin solves Officers, then immediately solves generals because all he had to do was swap all reds and blues. |
| 09:20 | <@Vornicus> | I need to see your Officers, if it is indeed awesome. |
| 09:20 | < McMartin> | I used ternary, then convert it to binary in the end. |
| 09:21 | < McMartin> | It's probably not the most efficient, but I'm fond of the algorithm. |
| 09:21 | < McMartin> | ?lvl=13&code=q11:13f3;r10:13f2;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f0;b13:13 f0;c15:9f3;c15:8f3;c15:10f3;c15:11f3;c15:12f3;c15:13f0;c14:13f0;c11:12f3;c10:2f0 ;c10:3f2;c10:4f2;b10:5f1;c10:6f0;c11:2f0;i11:3f4;i11:4f4;q11:5f0;y11:6f0;g12:3f3 ;c12:4f3;p12:5f3;b12:6f3;c12:7f3;c13:3f2;i13:4f2;q13:5f2;b13:6f3;r13:7f0;c14:3f2 ;c14:4f0;r14:5f1;c15:3f3;c15:4f3;c15:5f3;c15:6f3;c15:7f3;y7:2f3;y7:3f2;c8:2f0;q8 :3f5;c9:3f2;c9:6f1;c9:5f1;c9:4f1;c12 |
| 09:21 | | * Vornicus does a lot of routing in his Officers. |
| 09:22 | <@Vornicus> | I think that got cut off. |
| 09:23 | < McMartin> | Ends with c9:2f0; |
| 09:23 | < McMartin> | Going to starforge pastebin |
| 09:24 | < McMartin> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/305 |
| 09:26 | <@Vornicus> | I have no idea what is happening there. |
| 09:26 | < McMartin> | Feed it, say, 101111. |
| 09:27 | < McMartin> | Green is the string terminator. |
| 09:27 | < McMartin> | I lied initially; I'm not actually doing it in ternary. |
| 09:27 | < simon_> | what's Officers? |
| 09:27 | < McMartin> | "Add 1 to input number" |
| 09:27 | < simon_> | oh, you're playing Manufactoria. |
| 09:28 | <@Vornicus> | You're using yellows to mark carries. |
| 09:28 | < McMartin> | Yup. |
| 09:28 | < McMartin> | (Or borrows, for Generals) |
| 09:28 | < McMartin> | 54/3:05. |
| 09:29 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, I just did that by doing BG -> GR, then RG -> B. |
| 09:29 | < McMartin> | That's probably a better solution all told, though I'm hoping I can generalize this one for... Metatron? |
| 09:30 | <@Vornicus> | Metatron, yes |
| 09:31 | <@Vornicus> | Which I actually did with a third thing that I read one bit and deleted two from a third number. |
| 09:31 | <@Vornicus> | Er, read one bit and added two. |
| 09:32 | <@Vornicus> | Which is, unfortunately, /huge/, because you end up with three branch layers finally feeding into four results. |
| 09:32 | < McMartin> | Two inputs. =/ |
| 09:33 | <@Vornicus> | Separated by green. |
| 09:39 | | * Vornicus in fact rewrites his thing by bothering to actually use modes, improves speed and size. |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | 29/2:18 |
| 09:41 | <@Vornicus> | and 29/1:03 for Generals. |
| 09:42 | < Orth> | McM! Did you see my Rocketplanes? |
| 09:43 | <@Vornicus> | It's really good. |
| 09:43 | < McMartin> | I don't think I did. Link? |
| 09:44 | < Orth> | ?lvl=27&code=c12:8f3;c12:9f3;y12:4f3;i12:7f6;c11:7f0;p12:5f3;c12:6f3;q10:7f0;y10 :5f2;c10:6f1;p9:7f2;r9:6f3;b9:8f1;b11:5f2;r13:5f3;p13:6f4;c13:7f0;q12:10f2; |
| 09:44 | < Orth> | Yes, really, that's the whole thing. >_> |
| 09:44 | < Orth> | I've been told I can optimize it a couple bits better, too, but I've not bothered just yet. |
| 09:45 | < Orth> | (I optimised the hell out of it when I discovered the wonders of dumping robots onto switches from whatever direction I wanted.) |
| 09:45 | <@Vornicus> | One bits. |
| 09:46 | < McMartin> | Very clever. |
| 09:46 | < Orth> | Two bits, if I'm looking at it right |
| 09:47 | <@Vornicus> | (mine is 35/3:24. Reiver's is 18/1:39 without the optimization, 16/1:34 with) |
| 09:48 | | * EvilDarkLord is currently working on Android. |
| 09:48 | < McMartin> | Holy sneeze. Here's a Teachers with 21 parts, of which 9 are not conveyors. |
| 09:48 | < EvilDarkLord> | *+s |
| 09:49 | <@Vornicus> | Mine is 22 parts, of which 9 are not conveyors. |
| 09:50 | | * Vornicus then discovers a ridiculous thinko, makes it 21/0:53. |
| 09:51 | <@Vornicus> | (I had the yellow reset going branch-conveyor-branch again-yellow, instead of branch-yellow directly.) |
| 09:59 | <@Vornicus> | Reiver: If you would simply open the User Content thingy, and sort by Top Rated, you will see something at the very top. |
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| 10:03 | < Orth> | Vorn: Huhwhat? |
| 10:03 | <@Vornicus> | Scroll down to where it says "Featured User Content" |
| 10:04 | <@Vornicus> | This is stuff that other people have made and shared with the world. |
| 10:04 | <@Vornicus> | The very first one there. Click it. |
| 10:04 | < Orth> | OK |
| 10:04 | < Orth> | Hahahaha, awesome |
| 10:04 | < Orth> | Is that what the optimisation looks like? |
| 10:04 | <@Vornicus> | That is. |
| 10:05 | < Orth> | Hadn't occoured to me to use the dot-printers to /turn the corner/, that's pretty sweet |
| 10:07 | | * Orth upgrades Robocoffee from 5 peices and 9 seconds to 3 peices and 7 seconds. |
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| 10:09 | <@Vornicus> | Heh. I thought for a minute robocoffee was robotoast, and I'm like, uh... |
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| 10:19 | < Orth> | hahaha. |
| 10:22 | | * Orth eyes, DING |
| 10:22 | | * Orth upgrades Robotoast from 3 parts, 2 seconds, to 23parts, 13 seconds. |
| 10:22 | <@Vornicus> | Quite an upgrade there. |
| 10:27 | < EvilDarkLord> | Have you guys done them all, just optimizing now? |
| 10:28 | | Gruber is now known as gnolam |
| 10:28 | < Orth> | nope, Rocketplanes is my finest peice of work... and also the hardest one I've solved. >_> |
| 10:34 | <@Vornicus> | Technically Robolamps "can" be done in 5 pieces but it doesn't always work. Best /correct/ robolamps is I think 8 pieces. |
| 10:40 | < Orth> | Yeah, I'd got it down to 5 |
| 10:40 | < Orth> | It's only a problem in accidental rejects. |
| 10:41 | < EvilDarkLord> | "Only". |
| 10:41 | < Orth> | Hey, if unit tests didn't catch it~ |
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| 10:57 | < McMartin> | I only just tonight finished the mainline ones and now have only bonus stages. |
| 10:58 | <@Vornicus> | Seraphim is easy; Ophanim is rather difficult because it's very easy to run out of room; Metatron is obvious but huge and annoying. |
| 11:02 | < McMartin> | Yeah, I'm on Ophanim |
| 11:02 | <@Vornicus> | In fact, my Ophanim is wrong and I haven't figured out a good way to fix it. |
| 11:12 | | * simon_ is getting a computer today on which the game doesn't crash. |
| 11:15 | | * gnolam lost his progress in the game and can't be arsed to start all over again. |
| 11:28 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 11:41 | < EvilDarkLord> | Pretty trivial to re-do if you've lost progress. |
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| 16:10 | | * ToxicFrog tracks down the person who implemented 'git shelve' and fills his mouth with spiders |
| 16:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Er, 'p4 shelve' |
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| 18:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Holy shit. |
| 18:42 | < ToxicFrog> | A program I banged together five years ago is still in regular use in this company. |
| 18:42 | < Orth> | ? |
| 18:42 | < Orth> | haha, what? |
| 18:42 | < ToxicFrog> | And I know this because this is the first time in five years they've had any problems with it. |
| 18:42 | < ToxicFrog> | So I got an IM asking me where the source code was. |
| 18:42 | < Orth> | ... |
| 18:42 | < Orth> | "Yeah, uh, about that..." ? |
| 18:43 | < Orth> | Was it a Small Yet Really Handy Little Script type program? |
| 18:43 | < Orth> | Those things can last forever. |
| 18:43 | < ToxicFrog> | (for bonus points, the problem appears to be that they were using an older version than the one checked in to version control) |
| 18:43 | < ToxicFrog> | Not a script, a small program for packing and unpacking a custom archive format we use. |
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| 18:44 | < Orth> | ... yes, I would imagine a program like that would Just Get Used |
| 18:44 | < ToxicFrog> | I tossed it together as a replacement for the old program for a specific project that was since discontinued, turns out they've been using this thing everywhere since |
| 18:44 | < Orth> | Hope you put your name in the help menu~ |
| 18:45 | < ToxicFrog> | Better. It's in the commit messages. |
| 18:46 | < ToxicFrog> | ...not that that actually matters in practice since no-one could figure out which repo the source was checked into~ |
| 18:46 | < Orth> | Yeah, see, better to leave its name in lights in front of the users~ |
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| 20:09 | | * ToxicFrog discovers mingw-cross-env |
| 20:11 | < ToxicFrog> | This...is pretty awesome. |
| 20:15 | < ToxicFrog> | It is a makefile that automatically downloads and builds all the bits you need for a linux-host, windows-target cross compiler. |
| 20:15 | < celticminstrel> | ...a makefile that downloads? |
| 20:19 | < ToxicFrog> | ...yes? |
| 20:19 | < ToxicFrog> | All a makefile is is a dependency graph where each node contains commands. |
| 20:20 | < celticminstrel> | It's just a little unusual. |
| 20:20 | < ToxicFrog> | It's easy enough to use wget or curl to download things. |
| 20:23 | < ToxicFrog> | So far it's done mingwrt, w32api, binutils, gcc-gmp, gcc-mpc, and gcc-mpfr; now it's working on gcc itself, which will probably take a while. |
| 20:23 | < ToxicFrog> | If this goes well I may use it to upgrade my cross-compile setup on Orias. |
| 20:23 | < ToxicFrog> | I set it up ages ago and have been terrified to touch it ever since because it was such a pain in the ass. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jun 09 00:00:28 2010 |