| --- Log opened Sat May 22 00:00:08 2010 |
| 00:06 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-ddda213d.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:16 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-bbc709c4.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 00:41 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | holy shit |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | That Google Pac-Man? |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | It's not JavaScript. |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | It's HTML5. |
| 00:49 | <@Derakon> | Awesome. |
| 00:49 | < Namegduf> | There's no JS in it? |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | There's Flash for the sound, apparently |
| 00:50 | < Namegduf> | It's got JS. |
| 00:51 | | * Namegduf clickied on "Inspect Element", there's a <script> tag containing JS. |
| 00:51 | < Namegduf> | And an include of http://www.google.com/logos/js/pacman10-hp.3.js |
| 00:52 | <@Vornicus> | You mean it's not /just/ javascript. |
| 00:54 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | "Americans are more likely to be overweight than to pay federal income tax." |
| 01:09 | | * Derakon eyes his OpenGL test program, wonders why the heck it's so slow. |
| 01:16 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-5d258bee.threembb.co.uk] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 02:18 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 03:09 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-1707de48.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:32 | | cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 04:43 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 04:56 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: *whistles* Did you hear something?] |
| 05:04 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 05:06 | | PinkFreud is now known as Phone |
| 05:06 | | Phone is now known as PinkFreud |
| 05:26 | | cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 06:11 | | Serah [Z@2C3C9C.B2A300.F245DE.859909] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:18 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: *hums* Can't stay now!] |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | So while poking around freenode I found a #programming channel |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now I am sad |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | For every sensible question, there's at least one HOW U MINE FOR 3D GAMING IN C++ YOU INCLUDE <windows.h> RIGHT? |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why do so many people decide they want to learn programming by writing a game in C++? It brings nothing but pain. |
| 06:26 | | * Vornicus learned programming by writing a programming language. |
| 06:26 | <@Vornicus> | It was the shittiest thing ever, but it worked. Sort of. |
| 06:29 | <@Vornicus> | It did help though that I could spell. |
| 06:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I just noodled around in a lot of different languages. |
| 06:34 | <@Vornicus> | Technically before I learned to actually program I had done some stuff in C64 BASIC, and then about five years after that, I completely failed to figure out Pascal. |
| 06:34 | <@Vornicus> | (but the C64 BASIC stuff was... really, really simple, except for copying stuff from the back of Compute! |
| 06:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Logo, then QBASIC (in the SCO UNIX DOS emulator, yeah!), then some fiddling with Pascal |
| 06:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then a bit of C, a gradually growing awareness of bash, poking at Java and C++ without ever really understanding them, more C, and then I kind of went critical |
| 06:38 | <@Vornicus> | Then about, oh, 8 years after failing miserably at understanding Pascal, Chalain got a hold of me. |
| 06:39 | <@Vornicus> | I futzed in ten languages in two years, but the first one - and the one I still use all the time - is Python. |
| 06:41 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 06:44 | <@Vornicus> | That was... jeez, 8 1/2 years ago now. |
| 06:48 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 06:49 | | * Derakon looks up. "History of languages you've used, huh?" |
| 06:49 | <@Derakon> | My first programming ever was in BASIC on a C64. |
| 06:49 | <@Derakon> | Very simple stuff; I'd use the extended character set to draw something, usually a playing card, then ask the user if they liked my drawing, and either thank them or insult them. |
| 06:50 | <@Derakon> | Then I played around a bit with Angband's source code, which was in C. Very minor changes; I made a mod to make monsters trigger traps, and one that limited how deeply weak monsters could appear. |
| 06:51 | | Serah [Z@5E691D.FC7C16.F8708C.B4BB42] has joined #code |
| 06:51 | <@Derakon> | Then I went to college, and thence did Java, Prolog, SML, C++, dabbled in Perl while working for the sysops, and did a webapp in PHP for a databases course. |
| 06:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, roguelikes. Hacking on Crossfire is what got me into C. |
| 06:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | University here was Java, C, Python, *, but by then I was already heavy into C and Lua. |
| 06:54 | <@Derakon> | Oh yeah, I picked up Lua while working on a senior project. |
| 06:54 | <@Derakon> | (Which project was Niobium, my first ill-fated attempt to make a game engine) |
| 06:58 | | Serah [Z@5E691D.FC7C16.F8708C.B4BB42] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:07 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-1707de48.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 07:09 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, looks like something is screwy with my PyOpenGL install or something. |
| 07:10 | <@Derakon> | Because the same script running on my computer and on someone else's computer has a massive variance in framerate. |
| 07:10 | <@Derakon> | As in, I'm getting 15FPS when they're getting 150. :\ |
| 07:12 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-4921da6a.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:12 | <@Vornicus> | lovely |
| 07:13 | <@Derakon> | I don't have a clue how to go about debugging that. |
| 07:25 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 07:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: try #proglangdesign. Their topic says "program.ming" specifically to stop searching |
| 07:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Vornicus: I designed a language years ago too. Mine was XML based }:> |
| 07:30 | <@Vornicus> | So glad you never inflicted it on me |
| 07:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Well it was overly abstract, not directly supporting many operations on the assumption that with enough computing power I could optimize them away |
| 07:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I abandoned it when I realized that violated the halting problem (not that I understood the halting problem at the time) |
| 07:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It was intended to be an extremely simple base language upon to build a much greater language. Much like many functional languages in hindsight |
| 07:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | These days I'd do an intermediate language |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. I think I had intent to write a GUI for the XML. Never got near that |
| 07:40 | <@Vornicus> | Rham, you're ...kinda a freak, aren't you |
| 07:42 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
| 07:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Might have been an intent to transparently translate to a text format when opened by the editor too |
| 07:51 | <@Vornicus> | :( |
| 08:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | just another emacs mode ;) |
| 08:08 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:20 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:22 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-4921da6a.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:25 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:37 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 08:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:43 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:02 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 10:02 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:09 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:09 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 10:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 10:18 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:20 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:22 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c5d72e22.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 10:22 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 10:26 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:28 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:51 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:52 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 11:00 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 11:32 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-bbc709c4.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 12:02 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-08120565.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 12:02 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 12:59 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:05 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 13:59 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-b4c2e3f5.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:28 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 14:38 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 15:17 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 15:23 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 15:50 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 16:04 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 16:05 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 16:12 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 16:19 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 16:21 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-169f5138.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 16:24 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-c24f2acb.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 16:55 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-65dff03c.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:10 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-517012d4.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 17:13 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:13 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:30 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-08120565.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:30 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-ddea25fb.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 17:30 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 17:35 | | Attilla_ [Attilla@Nightstar-2f9fec3f.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 17:37 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-ddea25fb.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:39 | | Attilla_ is now known as Attilla |
| 18:13 | | * Derakon eyes this regex for matching email addresses: http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html |
| 18:21 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-c24f2acb.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 18:25 | < celticminstrel> | O_O |
| 18:27 | < Namegduf> | That's quite wow. |
| 18:35 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-c24f2acb.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 18:35 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-c24f2acb.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 18:35 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-c24f2acb.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 18:37 | < Alek> | oh emm gee |
| 18:49 | | Searh [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 19:04 | < celticminstrel> | Remove duplicates from a list... x = list(set(x)) |
| 19:05 | < celticminstrel> | Well, it works. |
| 19:05 | <@Derakon> | Yep. |
| 19:05 | <@Derakon> | Of course, it ruins your list order. |
| 19:05 | < celticminstrel> | Well, my list was to be sorted anyway. |
| 19:05 | < celticminstrel> | So do that, then sort, I guess. |
| 19:06 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 19:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:19 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:42 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 19:48 | < celticminstrel> | ...how do I test if a variable exists? |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | ...why would you need to do this? |
| 19:49 | < celticminstrel> | Hm, I guess I can manage without it if I alter stuff a bit. |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, the general method is to use hasattr(). |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | E.g. hasattr(foo, "bar") checks if the object named foo has an attribute named "bar". |
| 19:51 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | You should not, unless you're doing really scary metaprogramming, need to test if a variable exists. |
| 19:53 | | * celticminstrel gives it a default value instead. |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | Good thinking. |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | Here's the definitely wrong way to do this: |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | try: |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | foo |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | catch: |
| 19:54 | <@Derakon> | foo = initialValue |
| 19:54 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | :( |
| 19:58 | <@Derakon> | (Guess how I know about this method!) |
| 19:59 | < celticminstrel> | Sebastien? |
| 19:59 | <@Derakon> | Sebastian. |
| 20:43 | | * Derakon eyes this list of steps to check his OpenGL install. |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | #2 is "confirm that your machine is using direct rendering (i.e. actually using your hardware driver, not a software renderer)" |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | The person who made the list notes you do this on Linux using glxinfo. I have no idea how to do this on OSX. |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | "You probably are" |
| 20:44 | <@Derakon> | Namegduf: yes, but it pays to be meticulous when you have a simple OpenGL program that's giving 15FPS when it should be giving 150. |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | OS X should surely come with the right graphically accelerated drivers for hardware as part of Apple's tying it to it, right? |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 20:45 | < Namegduf> | Unfortunately, I don't know anything at all about how to test OS X's graphical acceleration stack. |
| 20:45 | < Namegduf> | So I can't help. |
| 20:45 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 20:51 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 20:53 | | Searh [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:01 | | AbuDhabi [annodomini@Nightstar-f4b2aeea.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 21:01 | <@Derakon> | ...okay, that's unexpected. |
| 21:02 | <@Derakon> | If I explicitly tell PyOpenGL to generate mipmaps of my textures, suddenly I get 833FPS. |
| 21:02 | < Namegduf> | Huh. |
| 21:02 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c5d72e22.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:03 | <@Vornicus> | wtf |
| 21:03 | <@Derakon> | Which makes me think that it's this line that's causing the problem somehow: |
| 21:03 | <@Derakon> | GL.glTexParameterf(GL.GL_TEXTURE_2D, GL.GL_TEXTURE_MIN_FILTER, GL.GL_NEAREST) |
| 21:07 | | aoanla [AndChat@Nightstar-7862b681.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #code |
| 21:24 | | * Derakon draws a 100x100 grid of map tiles at 227FPS with linear interpolation for scaling, and 256FPS for nearest. |
| 21:24 | <@Derakon> | I think this should work. |
| 21:32 | <@Vornicus> | Fixed it? |
| 21:33 | <@Derakon> | Well, as noted, if instead of saying "Hey OpenGL, here's a texture" I say "Hey OpenGL, make mipmaps from this texture" then my rendering rate dramatically improves. |
| 21:33 | <@Derakon> | From discourse with more knowledgeable people this shouldn't be necessary... |
| 21:33 | <@Derakon> | But on the other hand, I don't think it hurts me any either. |
| 21:34 | <@McMartin> | You have to ask for mipmaps |
| 21:34 | <@McMartin> | if you're scaling anything, mipmaps make it faster and nicers |
| 21:35 | <@Vornicus> | Nearest neighbor I thought didn't use mipmaps anyway, which is weird. |
| 21:36 | <@Derakon> | Well, here's the script, if you're curious. http://paste.ubuntu.com/438011/ |
| 21:37 | <@Derakon> | You can see where I commented out the glTexImage2D and glTexParameterf calls and replaced them with alternates to deal with mipmaps. |
| 22:13 | | Searh [Z@2C3C9C.B2A300.F245DE.859909] has joined #code |
| 22:33 | | aoanla [AndChat@Nightstar-7862b681.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 23:53 | <@Derakon> | ...okay, as a first pass, OpenGL drawing seems to be working. Just...everything's flipped left-to-right. |
| 23:54 | < Namegduf> | Sounds pretty correct for OS X |
| 23:54 | <@Derakon> | Howso? |
| 23:56 | < Namegduf> | Some of its prompts have buttons switched in position relative to the Windows norm, plus the application close/minimise/stuff buttons are unusually switched... it was a poorish joke. :P |
| 23:56 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 23:56 | <@Derakon> | Humor. |
| 23:57 | < Namegduf> | Sorry. XD |
| --- Log closed Sun May 23 00:00:09 2010 |