| --- Log opened Mon May 03 00:00:21 2010 |
| 00:05 | | Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.398CA6.FC4697.2D0785] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 00:13 | | hobbitprog [hobbit@Nightstar-9bd338b1.okcbok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 00:14 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-7ff892b8.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Schlafen.] |
| 00:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:07 | | Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:11 | <@Derakon> | Updated your adder, Vorn. |
| 01:13 | | Finerty is now known as Vornicus |
| 01:13 | <@Vornicus> | thank you, der |
| 01:17 | <@Derakon> | And it correctly calculates 13+51! |
| 01:18 | <@Derakon> | Oh neat, it shows the carrying. |
| 01:21 | <@Vornicus> | It's also capable of handling really, really big numbers. |
| 01:22 | <@Derakon> | Yes, I tried that too. |
| 01:23 | <@Vornicus> | Any idiot can get a computer to add. |
| 01:23 | <@Vornicus> | It takes a special kind of nutbar to make it show its work. |
| 01:23 | <@Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/adding.png |
| 01:23 | <@Derakon> | Hee. |
| 01:24 | <@Vornicus> | sweeet |
| 01:29 | <@cpux> | Now can you get the gaming industry to adopt 64 bit integers? Cause that'd be a real challenge. :-P |
| 01:40 | < gnolam> | cpux: ? |
| 01:45 | <@cpux> | You'd be surprised how many slot accounting systems will bug out after $21,474,836.47 or $42,949,372.95. :-P |
| 01:46 | <@cpux> | Which is dumb when you consider how much money goes through casinos. |
| 01:46 | <@Derakon> | ...different gaming industry. |
| 01:46 | <@cpux> | Yeah. I tend to say "gaming" a lot when I mean "casino gaming |
| 01:51 | <@cpux> | I suppose it's cause I work in the field. |
| 01:55 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 02:01 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 02:47 | <@cpux> | And while on the subject, here something that coincidentally made its way to slashdot: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/05/02/2038255/MATLAB-Cant-Manipulate-64-Bit-In tegers |
| 03:10 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-f566a34d.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 03:18 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-f566a34d.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:58 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 04:01 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:01 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by Reiver |
| 04:35 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 04:40 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 04:43 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: *hums* Can't stay now!] |
| 05:07 | < Alek> | ugh. |
| 05:08 | < Alek> | why doesn't the printer icon in the taskbar lead to the queue any more, but to Devices and Printers instead? |
| 05:08 | < Alek> | in 7. |
| 05:55 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 06:34 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:46 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 06:51 | | cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:06 | <@McMartin> | ... |
| 07:06 | <@McMartin> | "A polynomial is a mathematical slut. It lets everyone lie tangent to its curves. TO THE NTH DEGREE." |
| 07:51 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:15 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-7ff892b8.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 08:15 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 08:37 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 08:45 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-f566a34d.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:50 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 09:13 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-2172b4aa.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:14 | | Orthia is now known as Reiv[Graduate] |
| 09:14 | < Reiv[Graduate]> | ^.^ |
| 10:09 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-2172b4aa.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 10:30 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-197e7c9b.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:53 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 12:02 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 12:02 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by Reiver |
| 12:04 | | shade_of_cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 12:04 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 12:21 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-8f278209.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 12:22 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-197e7c9b.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:32 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 13:05 | <@Namegduf> | http://lbw.sourceforge.net/ <-- It's the theoretical WINE antiparticle, but more crazy! |
| 13:12 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | madness |
| 13:16 | <@AnnoDomini> | Why is it madness? |
| 13:17 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 13:19 | <@Namegduf> | It's incredible madness. |
| 13:19 | <@Namegduf> | http://lbw.sourceforge.net/broken.html <-- "Lots of stuff in LBW is broken. Quite a lot of it I don't know how to fix. Can you help?" |
| 13:24 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 13:43 | < Tarinaky> | "It is about fifteen different hacks all balanced precariously on top of each other." |
| 13:46 | <@PinkFreud> | LBW's signal handling is a broken mess. Right now it only works by accident. |
| 13:47 | <@PinkFreud> | now *that* is awesome |
| 14:32 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-8f278209.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:38 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 15:38 | < gnolam> | Yay for local mirrors. |
| 15:41 | < gnolam> | Bittorrent is nice and all, but it usually takes a while to get up to maximum speed. It's much nicer to be able to download an ISO over an instant 9 MiB/s HTTP connection instead. :) |
| 15:42 | < gnolam> | ... in fact, it took me longer to re-download UNetbootin than Xubuntu 10.04 itself. >_< |
| 15:48 | <@McMartin> | o_O |
| 15:48 | <@McMartin> | But yeah, Ubuntu's central servers are fantastic, compared to many other distros. |
| 15:48 | <@McMartin> | Fedora, BT is basically mandatory |
| 15:48 | <@Namegduf> | Ouch. |
| 16:15 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 16:21 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:32 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 17:38 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:57 | <@McMartin> | Speaking of Ubuntu |
| 17:57 | | * McMartin goes and actually burns the liveCD thereof. |
| 18:17 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 18:23 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 18:39 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:47 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 18:49 | | cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 18:52 | | shade_of_cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:52 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 19:30 | | * gnolam stabs Linux UIs. |
| 19:39 | < gnolam> | Seriously. What's with all those unnecessary minheight widgets? :P |
| 19:39 | < gnolam> | Configuration dialogs should goddamn well be usable in 640x480... |
| 20:10 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 20:13 | <@McMartin> | Having a usable UI means that you have sold out TO THE MAN |
| 20:33 | < gnolam> | Hah. |
| 20:36 | <@Namegduf> | I've always found the UIs for most of my apps perfectly usable |
| 20:36 | | * Namegduf starts up another terminal window to do stuff in |
| 20:36 | <@Namegduf> | :P |
| 20:41 | <@Namegduf> | But, yes, there's a dire lack of UI designers on OS X. |
| 20:41 | <@Namegduf> | Er, Linux. |
| 20:42 | <@Namegduf> | OS X is where I was thinking we need to steal them from. |
| 20:52 | | * Rhamphoryncus needs to start advocating the Dave model of concurrency. It's not threads and it's not processes, and calling it either of those gets people stuck on inapplicable issues, so I'll just call it Dave instead |
| 21:01 | <@McMartin> | That sounds like it's probably either futures or coroutines. |
| 21:01 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-7ff892b8.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:03 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c4f20528.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 21:03 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 21:12 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:15 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 21:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: no, really, it's "none of the above" |
| 21:34 | <@Namegduf> | It's clearly only using a single line of execution at once. |
| 21:34 | <@Namegduf> | Which avoids all threading issues. |
| 21:34 | <@Namegduf> | Calling it either of those would indeed raise inapplicable issues. |
| 21:35 | < Rhamphoryncus> | nope, uses multicore |
| 21:36 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Do processes avoid threading issues? |
| 21:36 | <@Namegduf> | No. |
| 21:36 | <@Namegduf> | Not generally, anyway |
| 21:37 | <@Namegduf> | Threads are just processes who happen to share memory space, etc. |
| 21:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | shared memory/shared state/shared whatever is generally what people consider to be the problem of threads |
| 21:37 | <@Namegduf> | Processes can have shared memory if you really want. |
| 21:38 | <@Namegduf> | And threads don't have to touch each other's stuff. |
| 21:38 | <@Namegduf> | So I would say the general answer is that processes aren't really separate from threads aside in typical usage. |
| 21:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | That's roughly my attitude as well |
| 21:39 | | * Namegduf has synchronised threads very easily and safely using pipe stuff to communicate between them |
| 21:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You want to minimize shared *state*, to avoid complex interactions, just like you do in single threaded code |
| 21:40 | <@Namegduf> | Exchanging ownership of things, generally |
| 21:40 | <@Namegduf> | Coupled with strict rules about who owns what. |
| 21:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Ever used monitors? |
| 21:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (not in java. It doesn't count) |
| 21:41 | <@Namegduf> | Not by name. |
| 21:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Sounds close to what you're doing |
| 21:42 | <@Namegduf> | It was simpler, perhaps. |
| 21:42 | <@Namegduf> | More "I'll send you a pointer to this. Once I've sent it, it no longer is mine and I can't touch it. Once you receive it, it's yours to play with, until you send me the pointer back." |
| 21:42 | <@Namegduf> | It was a worker thread. |
| 21:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You create a monitor which contains multiple objects. Only one thread can enter the monitor at a time. Unshareable objects (ie not frozen or themselves a monitor) cannot enter or leave a monitor |
| 21:43 | <@Namegduf> | Oh, yes, and "Once you send me the signal to terminate, you don't touch ANYTHING, I'll clean it up as I shutdown." |
| 21:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Monitors are basically like actors, but with a focus on synchronous rather than asynchronous communication |
| 21:44 | <@Namegduf> | "signal" being informal for a specific flag just meaning "don't process another thign" |
| 21:44 | <@Namegduf> | Interesting. |
| 21:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | IMO anyway. They're actually fairly obscure |
| 21:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Erlang can be considered actors (or not, I've seen arguments it's something else entirely), but the problem with it is there's NO shared state |
| 21:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | which sounds silly, but only because by "shared state" I don't mean "shared state" :P |
| 21:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You want your classes, modules, and various runtime contexts to be shared between your concurrency entities. You don't want them to be modified after they've been shared, but you do want them to be mutable before sharing, and it's quite hard to make abuse impossible |
| 21:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Such as configuration data. Load it when you start the program, then share it in all threads |
| 21:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Threads shouldn't be modifying it and putting a lock around it may be a bottleneck. They should treat it as immutable |
| 21:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Come to think of it the best option there may be a frozen version of the config object combined with an atomic reference. |
| 22:01 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-3c130f1a.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:01 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-3c130f1a.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 22:01 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by Reiver |
| 22:01 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:09 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-44cf0d6f.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 22:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I *think* I just got compared to Neo, because I'm seeing threads vs processors in a different way o.O |
| 22:38 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 22:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | s/processors/processes/ |
| 22:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I find it hard to believe it wasn't intended as an insult though ;) |
| 23:00 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:05 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:11 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:15 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:19 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:23 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:23 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:27 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:28 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-c4f20528.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Gnarfle.] |
| 23:30 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [[NS] Quit: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.] |
| 23:31 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:33 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 23:38 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:42 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:46 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:50 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has joined #code |
| 23:56 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Tue May 04 00:00:22 2010 |