| --- Log opened Wed Jan 27 00:00:30 2010 |
| 00:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 03:08 | | * Vornicus looks into Cython. |
| 03:15 | <@Derakon> | It's pretty easy to deal with. |
| 03:15 | <@Derakon> | Jetblade uses it for a few classes. |
| 06:43 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 07:39 | <@Vornicus> | Jesus Crap, Callbacks. |
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| 09:46 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 10:35 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 12:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 12:32 | < Tarinaky> | Is there anyone familiar with VC++? I was wondering how easy it is to add custom widgets. |
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| 16:09 | | * Tarinaky grumbles and mumbles. |
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| 16:12 | < TheWatcher> | ? |
| 16:17 | < Tarinaky> | I generally feel that the roadmap I've been following has lead me astray and I'm now attempting to make my own. |
| 16:18 | < Tarinaky> | And generally figure out the best way to organise my code >.> |
| 16:36 | < TheWatcher> | the one for the roguelike? |
| 16:37 | | * TheWatcher eyed it an noted that, while it was decent enough for a quick&dirty learning exercise, long-term |
| 16:38 | < TheWatcher> | damned enter key. long-term Correctness and Quality it was not aiming for I think |
| 16:39 | < TheWatcher> | One of those "here's now to do it quick and dirty. Once you've tried this you can go for clean and higher quality" things |
| 16:56 | | Zedidiah [zag@Nightstar-d0088b95.or.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 17:06 | | clorets [123@687AAB.022DC0.4772A3.7E613B] has joined #code |
| 17:06 | < clorets> | hi |
| 17:12 | < Zedidiah> | Hi. :) |
| 17:12 | < clorets> | :) |
| 17:13 | < clorets> | how are you? |
| 17:13 | < Zedidiah> | I'm all right. Having a slow morning. :) |
| 17:14 | < clorets> | well i was sleeping all most of the day and just get out of bed it is 7 pm here |
| 17:15 | < Zedidiah> | Heh. Come in here often? |
| 17:15 | | * gnolam ponders depth of field. |
| 17:16 | < clorets> | it is my first day |
| 17:16 | < clorets> | and u? |
| 17:16 | < Zedidiah> | I've been in here a while. Want to join me in another channel, though? This isn't really a social place. |
| 17:17 | < clorets> | what channel? |
| 17:17 | < Zedidiah> | I'm in #wiigii! as well. |
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| 18:31 | | macdjord|Homework [macdjord@Nightstar-e59ec310.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 18:31 | < macdjord|Homework> | Anyone about at the moment? |
| 18:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Sort of. |
| 18:32 | < TheWatcher> | Aye |
| 18:32 | < macdjord|Homework> | Yay! I've got a question I need to check my reasoning on. Technically, it's a math question, but #math is dead right now and it /is/ CS-related math, so... |
| 18:33 | < TheWatcher> | 'kay |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | Question is: |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | Let f(n) and g(n) be two positive functions. Prove or disprove the following statement: |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | One of the following relations always holds: |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) ? o(g(n)) |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) ? ?(g(n)) |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) ? ?(g(n)) |
| 18:33 | < macdjord|Homework> | My answer: |
| 18:34 | < macdjord|Homework> | Counterexample: Let f(n) = n^2 (cos(n)+1) + 1, g(n) = n. |
| 18:35 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm not familiar with all those signs. |
| 18:36 | < macdjord|Homework> | ErikMesoy: Ever used 'Big-O notation' to analyse the effitiency of algorithms? |
| 18:37 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. |
| 18:37 | < macdjord|Homework> | These are the same family of things. |
| 18:38 | | * TheWatcher appears to be having character encoding issues, sees only f(n) ? ?(g(n)) |
| 18:38 | < macdjord|Homework> | Little-o means 'strict upper bound' - that is, g(n) will always be *bigger* than f(n) for large enough n. |
| 18:39 | < macdjord|Homework> | Little-omega means 'strict lower bound' - that is, g(n) will always be *smaller* than f(n) for large enough n. |
| 18:39 | < ErikMesoy> | This looks correct, but can you walk me through why you need the +1 statements? |
| 18:40 | < ErikMesoy> | n^2 cos n looks intuitively like it would "wobble" enough compared to n to not match any of them. |
| 18:40 | < macdjord|Homework> | First line of the question - It has to be a positive function. |
| 18:40 | < ErikMesoy> | D'oh. Then I agree. |
| 18:41 | < macdjord|Homework> | TheWatcher: Are you familiar with the big-O, small-o, small-omega, big-theta, etc. notations? |
| 18:45 | < TheWatcher> | I was, about 10 years ago. |
| 18:45 | < macdjord|Homework> | Then I shall restate the problem bit. |
| 18:46 | < macdjord|Homework> | Let f(n) and g(n) be two positive functions. Prove or disprove the following statement: |
| 18:46 | < macdjord|Homework> | One of the following relations always holds: |
| 18:46 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) is small-o(g(n)) |
| 18:46 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) is big-Theta(g(n)) |
| 18:47 | < macdjord|Homework> | * f(n) is small-omega(g(n)) |
| 18:48 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-e59ec310.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
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| 18:48 | | * TheWatcher ponders |
| 18:49 | < macdjord> | TheWatcher: Did you get all that before I dropped? |
| 18:49 | < TheWatcher> | YEah |
| 18:52 | | * TheWatcher hms, isn't certain enough of his recollections on the subject to really answer properly |
| 18:53 | < TheWatcher> | Sorry, I'd have to go dig out my notes, and.. yeah, got to get back to work in a moment :/ |
| 18:54 | < macdjord> | Okay, I'll continue on. |
| 18:54 | < macdjord> | Ping me if you have an answer before I leave to submit it. |
| 19:03 | < Zedidiah> | Mac: what class is that? |
| 19:04 | < macdjord> | Zedidiah: CS 240, Data Structures and Data Management |
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| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Those taste like very different topics. |
| 19:11 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Sounds to me like "this is how you make a dbms" |
| 19:13 | < macdjord|Homework> | Vornicus-Latens: No, or at least not so far. Mostly it's been algorithms and abstract data types. |
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| 19:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | macdjord|Homework: yeah, that's what's confusing me. To me, "data structures" is, well, data structures as used in the programming, and "data management" is how to manipulate large data sets, including data processing tools and databases. |
| 19:58 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 19:58 | < macdjord|Homework> | ToxicFrog: I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of something timed. Can I get back to you? |
| 19:58 | < Derakon[work]> | G'day, folks. |
| 19:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't really need getting-back-to; it was more an observation than anything else. |
| 19:59 | < Derakon[work]> | I have a puzzle for you all, which I encountered while trying to debug a hung program. |
| 19:59 | < Derakon[work]> | (This is separate from the crash that was fixed by upgrading libraries; this is a hang) |
| 20:00 | < Derakon[work]> | The hang occurs when you try to abort an experiment-in-process. Here is the code that does the abort: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/110 |
| 20:00 | < Derakon[work]> | I stepped through the code using pdb, and got no hang. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Race condition of some sort? Is this threaded? |
| 20:01 | < Derakon[work]> | It is threaded, and a race condition is the most likely explanation I've come up with thus far. |
| 20:01 | < Derakon[work]> | I've determined, by changing where I start the debugger going, that through line 28 can run outside the debugger without ever hanging. |
| 20:02 | < Derakon[work]> | After that point, if I run outside the debugger, a hang is increasingly likely. |
| 20:02 | < Derakon[work]> | Note that the vast majority of abort code involves making a remote procedure call -- that code is of course not running in the debugger. |
| 20:02 | < Derakon[work]> | (Involves, and solely consists of, making a remote procedure call) |
| 20:03 | < Derakon[work]> | I've added logging to the machine responsible for handling lines 31 and 37 in that paste, and determined that 31 reliably completes successfully. |
| 20:03 | < Derakon[work]> | Also, if I add a log line after line 31, then it will show up. |
| 20:03 | < Derakon[work]> | However, the logging on line 35 never shows up. |
| 20:03 | < Derakon[work]> | So now I'm confused. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wacky. |
| 20:05 | < Derakon[work]> | Yes. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | M.stop() is just the RPC, nothing else? |
| 20:06 | < Derakon[work]> | Right. |
| 20:06 | < Derakon[work]> | It just does "X.nano.stopOMX()", where X.nano is the Pyro remote object. |
| 20:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Very weird. |
| 20:06 | < Derakon[work]> | And I made the last line of stopOMX be a print statement, which I consistently see get printed. |
| 20:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (in unrelated news, adding an icon to a cross-compiled windows program turns out not to be painful. I'm shocked.) |
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| 21:08 | | * Derakon[work] heads back into the lab to poke at this some more. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jan 27 21:41:40 2010 |
| --- Log opened Wed Jan 27 21:42:29 2010 |
| 21:42 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-b4529b0c.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 22:27 | < Derakon[work]> | I've made a discovery regarding the hang I'm investigating. |
| 22:28 | < Derakon[work]> | When pdb gets invoked, I can see logs from the experiment running in the background, as it gets notified that one of the components has aborted and finishes its business. |
| 22:28 | <@jerith> | Were you tying the noose wrong? |
| 22:28 | < Derakon[work]> | This doesn't happen if pdb doesn't invoke. |
| 22:28 | < Derakon[work]> | I've tried sleeping until the experiment finishes its business, but that doesn't work; the app hangs about two seconds into the sleeping. |
| 22:28 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:29 | < Derakon[work]> | I'd like to try to tell the app "Hey, go run some other thread for a bit", but I can't figure out how to do that. |
| 22:30 | < Derakon[work]> | My assumption here is that when pdb presents its prompt and waits for user input, Python transfers control to the experiment thread, which gets a chance to wrap up business. |
| 22:33 | | * gnolam snerks at jerith's comment. |
| 22:35 | < gnolam> | *grumble*. One of these days I should make a proper reusable framework, instead of basically copying a recent project in its entirety and then paring it down to semi-generality when starting a new project. |
| 22:38 | < Derakon[work]> | I note that if, in the debugger, I tell it to step over as fast as possible (i.e. hold down the return key to repeat the last command), I still see those logs from the experiment cleaning itself up. |
| 22:38 | < gnolam> | I should also clean up my OBJ loader. That code is absolutely abominable. |
| 22:39 | < Derakon[work]> | So the incredibly hacky fix for this hang is to integrate the debugger into the program and have the biologists type 'n' and then hold enter for a bit every time they click the abort button. :( |
| 22:39 | < Derakon[work]> | I'd really like to get something better though. |
| 22:43 | | * gnolam starts by improving his VBO wrapper. |
| 22:48 | < Derakon[work]> | So, no ideas for my problem? Rhamphoryncus? |
| 23:01 | < Derakon[work]> | Guess not. Back into the lab. |
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| 23:11 | < gnolam> | VBO wrapper a bit more sophisticated, and the OBJ loader can now handle texture- and normalless models. |
| 23:11 | < gnolam> | Sort of. |
| 23:39 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 23:40 | < Derakon[work]> | I didn't accomplish much before the bossman showed up and started giving a tour of the lab, which was pretty distracting. |
| 23:40 | < Derakon[work]> | So, hang still fixable by invoking the debugger, but not otherwise. >.< |
| 23:41 | | * Derakon[work] checks his logs, notes he didn't miss anything of consequence here either. |
| 23:45 | < gnolam> | [on the iPad] |
| 23:45 | < gnolam> | <BAF> I'm already in line for the maxiPad - it has a bigger screen AND leak protection. |
| 23:46 | < Derakon[work]> | I think that joke's already old. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 28 00:00:17 2010 |