| --- Log opened Thu Nov 19 00:00:55 2009 |
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| 03:16 | | * Reivthia ponders |
| 03:16 | < Reivthia> | Hey, Vorn |
| 03:16 | < Reivthia> | Would you want to make a game if you had the Unreal 3 dev kit for free? |
| 03:16 | < Reivthia> | Or would the lack of opensourceness make baby Vorny cry? |
| 03:17 | | * Kazriko has downloaded the unreal 3 and unity dev kits... |
| 03:18 | <@Kazriko> | The fact that unity doesn't let you use subversion unless you buy the pro version is a mild turnoff, but I think I could develop my games quicker in that... |
| 03:21 | <@Vornicus> | Reiv: there's also Unity, I should try that out. |
| 03:21 | <@Vornicus> | "doesn't let you use subversion"? |
| 03:22 | <@Kazriko> | They have two data formats, one of them doesn't work properly with external scm software. |
| 03:22 | <@Kazriko> | The other does, but the pro version is the only one that has access to that format. |
| 03:22 | <@Vornicus> | ah |
| 03:23 | <@Kazriko> | OTOH, Unreal is 25% royalties after $5000 but free otherwise, Unity is $1500 for the pro version, but no royalties. |
| 03:23 | <@Kazriko> | I'm thinking of doing my Galciv 2 clone in Unity Web... |
| 03:24 | <@Vornicus> | "doesn't work properly" how, anyway? |
| 03:24 | <@Kazriko> | i suspect that it's binary with no good way to diff it. i'll have to look into that further. |
| 03:25 | <@Kazriko> | but it's a bullet point on why you should upgrade to pro. |
| 03:27 | <@Kazriko> | Unity Pro now supports an alternative way of saving metadata for better external version control. When enabled, version control systems such as Subversion, Perforce, or Bazaar can be used without losing import settings or references between assets. |
| 03:28 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 03:32 | < Reivthia> | Kaz: Why are you doing a GalCiv 2 clone? |
| 03:32 | < Reivthia> | Vorn: While the royalties are somehat stiff, I will note that if you end up making a game and selling that much money... I don't think you'll complain either way. |
| 03:34 | <@Vornicus> | Well no, but the thing is I don't want to make a game for money, so $1500 is absurdly stiff |
| 03:38 | <@Kazriko> | Reivthia, Wanted to do one that was essentially web based, multiplayer, had continuous marching of time... |
| 03:38 | <@Kazriko> | Basically, 1 game week = 1 realtime day, ships constantly move at their rate of speed, etc. |
| 03:38 | <@Kazriko> | But was going to adapt it to island chains instead of star systems. |
| 03:41 | < Reivthia> | Interesting. |
| 03:42 | < Reivthia> | What I'd love is a game where combat happens once a day. |
| 03:42 | < Reivthia> | Etc. |
| 03:45 | <@Kazriko> | i wonder how well that would fit into the realtime movement idea. You could make it so that once you encountered an enemy ship, it held both ships there until the combat resolution time. |
| 03:47 | < Reivthia> | Exactly. |
| 03:47 | < Reivthia> | Though that could result in some pretty cruel 'picket ship' tactics |
| 03:51 | | * McMartin fires up Haskell again for the first time in a long time, solves Euler 107. |
| 03:52 | <@Kazriko> | I was thinking that it would be fun to translate GC2's 3-weapon mechanics into ramming, fire weapons, boarding, etc... |
| 03:55 | <@Kazriko> | The nice thing about islands is that the planet quality mechanic translates much better to that than it does to planets. |
| 03:55 | <@Kazriko> | The size of the island and terrain can quite literally tie to how many usable squares at each level of technology. |
| 03:56 | <@Kazriko> | moderate mountains? Terrace technology can make that terrain usable, etc. |
| 03:59 | <@Kazriko> | On unity, the only languages you can use with the standard version are C#, Javascript, and Boo. |
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| 04:35 | < Reivthia> | I still desperately need to hash out Macro4X some time |
| 04:35 | < Reivthia> | I think what I need to do it, though, is at least a psuedo-team who I can bounce ideas off and get the picture clearer in my head. |
| 04:35 | < Reivthia> | Possibly over voice chat. |
| 04:36 | <@Kazriko> | downside to tying ships up until the end of the turn, swarm tactics become more effective. If I have fast enough speed in GC2, I can take out 4-5 groups of invaders with my large fleet, but if you tied that fleet up, i'd have to either split it to deal with invaders or some of them would get through. |
| 04:36 | <@Kazriko> | Maybe. I'm terrible about voice chat though. heh |
| 04:37 | | * Kazriko wanders to the store. |
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| 05:23 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 06:31 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:46 | <@Kazriko> | "boo" is a horrible name for a programming language... especially when you're trying to find it in a package list. Can you imagine how many things have "boot" or "book" in their name? |
| 06:54 | | * Vornicus hopes they change go to issue 9 |
| 06:59 | | * Kazriko thinks Pi might like boo, it's python with static typing... |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | OK, I'm pretty sure I know how to organize my search for Euler 110 |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | The trick will just be convincing Haskell to actually do it in some kind of sensible order |
| 07:59 | <@Vornicus> | gah, euler |
| 07:59 | | * Vornicus should get back into that. |
| 08:23 | <@McMartin> | Ha ha |
| 08:24 | | * McMartin solves #110, which was pretty heinous until he made the Necessary Deductions. |
| 08:24 | <@Vornicus> | aga |
| 08:24 | <@McMartin> | However, I did it in Haskell's immediate mode, in the end. |
| 08:24 | | * McMartin goes to turn that into an actual, like, program. |
| 08:33 | | * McMartin does so |
| 08:33 | | * McMartin continues to scoff at efficient factorization algorithms. |
| 08:34 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah I haven't gotten around to pumping up my factorizor. |
| 08:34 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:34 | <@McMartin> | No, I mean, I solve #110 in tens of milliseconds using nothing more advanced than trial division. |
| 08:34 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Heh |
| 08:35 | <@McMartin> | Doing it for n = 1,000,000,000 takes about one second exactly. |
| 08:36 | <@McMartin> | ... doing it for n=10 gives the wrong answer, but, lazy. |
| 08:36 | | * McMartin had skipped #109 because #110 was #108, But For Real |
| 08:37 | | * McMartin retroactively skipped #109 because #109 is Tedium Incarnate. |
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| 08:54 | < simon`> | McMartin, I also have a systematic algorithm in my book for removing left-recursion in CFGs. |
| 08:54 | < simon`> | unfortunately I don't have the dragon book. |
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| 09:20 | | * McMartin flips through the Project Euler logs, finds the filk song. |
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| 09:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 11:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:25 | | * TheWatcher blarghs at uc v toupper in perl |
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| 17:48 | < RedNinja> | So. I'm thinking of making irssi my primary client. However, I'm kinda unwilling to give up some of the nice things about mIRC, such as the large text area it offers. |
| 17:48 | < RedNinja> | Is it possible to expand the size of the irssi window? |
| 17:48 | <@TheWatcher> | make your terminal bigger? |
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| 17:49 | < RedNinja> | Hmm. This seems to be working. |
| 17:50 | < RedNinja> | It's totally huge, which I like. |
| 17:50 | < RedNinja> | Now to figure out how to change between windows. |
| 17:50 | <@TheWatcher> | I also recommend using screen, running irssi inside screen, and then using the nicklist script to get a userlist on the right side. |
| 17:50 | <@TheWatcher> | alt+number |
| 17:51 | < RedNinja> | What's 'screen'? |
| 17:53 | <@McMartin> | A terminal management program that lets you keep stuff running even when logged off and capture the terminal again when you log in again, even on different machines. |
| 17:53 | < RedNinja> | Is it for Windows? |
| 17:54 | < RedNinja> | I'm currently using PuTTY. |
| 17:54 | < RedNinja> | Also, what happens when you have more than 10 windows open? |
| 17:55 | <@TheWatcher> | alt+q, w, e, r, t, y... etc |
| 17:55 | < RedNinja> | Is there a Dvorak version? |
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| 18:02 | <@jerith> | RedNinja: You can remap those. |
| 18:02 | < RedNinja> | Cool. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | I have keybindings for my first 42 windows. |
| 18:03 | < RedNinja> | I don't think I'll need that many. |
| 18:03 | | * jerith grins. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | I didn't either. |
| 18:04 | <@jerith> | You run screen on the system you're running irssi on. |
| 18:04 | <@jerith> | Then you detach your session when you're done and reattach to it from a different machine somewhere else. |
| 18:04 | < RedNinja> | Maybe I've been changed by playing all those roguelikes, but this is actually pretty comfortable. Quite unlike my beginnings in trying to operate Linuxes and their stuff. |
| 18:05 | <@jerith> | irssi has been my client of choice since about ninety seconds after I started using it. ;-) |
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| 18:06 | <@jerith> | Then again, I've been a console jockey for years. |
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| 18:08 | < RedNinja> | For some reason, this reminds me of a funny story involving a retarded mercenary and a looted SVD. |
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| 18:24 | | * McMartin is also a screen+irssi fellow, and has been since he needed to commute. |
| 18:24 | | * Namegduf is an irssi guy. |
| 18:30 | <@McMartin> | I suspect #code will have a lot of them. |
| 18:35 | < Namegduf> | Haha. |
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| 18:44 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 18:56 | < RedNinja> | I hope I will be able to remap keys so that I can use Polish diacritics. |
| 18:56 | < RedNinja> | I seem to be able to use them at the moment, which is good. |
| 18:57 | < RedNinja> | It seems that it's actually LAlt that changes channels, while RAlt is used normally. |
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| 19:02 | < RedNinja> | If understand it right, stuff I /set will say /set, right? |
| --- Log closed Thu Nov 19 19:03:19 2009 |
| --- Log opened Thu Nov 19 19:03:29 2009 |
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| 19:03 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 7 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] |
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| 20:05 | < DeadNinja> | Is there a way to change the way autocomplete works? I mean, I don't necessarily want a ": " at the end of a nick, not even a " ". |
| 20:10 | < gnolam> | DeadNinja: ... in what? |
| 20:10 | < Namegduf> | DeadNinja: Yeah, probably, if your client is open source. First, pull the source, then ???, then profit. |
| 20:10 | < gnolam> | Oh wait. There's a backscroll. |
| 20:11 | < gnolam> | Cleverly hidden by a disconnect. |
| 20:11 | < Namegduf> | Ah, you're RedNinja, and "irssi" |
| 20:11 | < Namegduf> | "Where there's a will, there's a way" applies strongly in open source, but whether the way is easy or hard I don't know. |
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| 20:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:20 | < DeadNinja> | I just downloaded the Windows binary. |
| 20:21 | < DeadNinja> | Compiling code that isn't mine is black magic to me. |
| 20:27 | < DeadNinja> | So what's the command to display a channel's current users? |
| 20:27 | < TheWatcher> | DeadNinja: /names |
| 20:28 | < DeadNinja> | Good enough for me. |
| 20:28 | < TheWatcher> | And to change the autocomplete, use /set completion_char .... |
| 20:28 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:29 | < TheWatcher> | Also, you need to /save to save your settings |
| 20:32 | < DeadNinja> | Hmmm. I want to save my settings to somewhere within the irssi folder, though. |
| 20:33 | < TheWatcher> | /save <filetosaveto> |
| 20:34 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 20:37 | < DeadNinja> | So how do I make it permanent? I mean, I want to have the configuration be my default one. |
| 20:38 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:39 | < TheWatcher> | If you want to change it from being ~/.irssi/config you need to include the --config=<configfile> argument each time you launch irssi |
| 20:47 | | crem [moo@Nightstar-8ca3eea7.adsl.mgts.by] has joined #code |
| 20:48 | < DeadNinja> | Mumble. It's a bit inconvenient, since I like to keep EVERYTHING in the directory. That way, when the time comes to format and restore, I can simply copy the program folder and continue where I left off. |
| 20:50 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 20:50 | < Namegduf> | Symlink .irssi to somewhere in there. |
| 20:50 | < TheWatcher> | Windows. |
| 20:50 | < Namegduf> | Windows has symlinks. |
| 20:51 | < TheWatcher> | DeadNinja: are you on XP or vista/7? |
| 20:52 | < DeadNinja> | XP. |
| 20:53 | < TheWatcher> | Yeah, no symlinks. |
| 20:54 | < Namegduf> | NTFS has symlinks. |
| 20:54 | < Namegduf> | Just harder to use. |
| 20:55 | < TheWatcher> | Junction points? |
| 20:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | What about the theme file? |
| 20:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | It seems to be saved to .irssi regardless of my intentions. |
| 20:59 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:04 | < DeadNinja> | BRB. I want to see what this does when shut down and restarted. |
| 21:04 | | DeadNinja [annodomini@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: DEATH.] |
| 21:05 | | DeadNinja [annodomini@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 21:09 | < DeadNinja> | Well, it seems to remember the server it connected to last. And it fires the automated IDENTIFY. Seems good, except it doesn't log like I commanded it to. |
| 21:14 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 21:17 | | * DeadNinja mumbles. I want my logs. ALL OF THEM. |
| 21:17 | < DeadNinja> | The config files says that autologging is on, but I'm not seeing it. |
| 21:18 | < TheWatcher> | Do you have 'autolog_level = ALL -CRAP -CLIENTCRAP -CTCPS' and 'autolog_path = /path/to/logs/$tag/$0/$0.%Y%m%d.log' set? |
| 21:20 | < DeadNinja> | Yep. Well, almost. It's "autolog_level = ALL" and "autolog_path = /logs/$tag/$0.%y-%m-%d.log". |
| 21:22 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 21:26 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:27 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 21:43 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 21:45 | < DeadNinja> | I'm not even seeing the folder where it's supposed to put the logs. |
| 21:46 | < TheWatcher> | Hm. |
| 21:47 | < TheWatcher> | Tried using something like c:\foo\bar\ in there? *shrug* |
| 21:47 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:50 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-a7f88525.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 21:51 | < DeadNinja> | It did not help. :( |
| 21:51 | < DeadNinja> | I'm going to try to fiddle with it more. |
| 21:54 | < DeadNinja> | Okay, I think it saves the logs now. Can't access them though, because they're locked. |
| 21:54 | | * TheWatcher has never attempted to use irssi directly on windows, so can't really assist |
| 21:54 | < DeadNinja> | Why the hell shouldn't I be able to READ them? |
| 21:55 | < Namegduf> | Probably because they're in use. |
| 21:55 | < Namegduf> | Welcome to Windows. |
| 21:56 | < DeadNinja> | Well, I can open them with Notepad (which hates Linux-like newline formatting). |
| 21:59 | < DeadNinja> | Awright. I can handle, for the moment, config files being in stupid places and weird logging. |
| 21:59 | < DeadNinja> | Even autocomplete that doesn't work precisely like in mIRC. |
| 22:00 | < DeadNinja> | Is there some built in method for autojoining channels on a network, or should I just add commands executed on connect? |
| 22:01 | < Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 22:01 | < Namegduf> | After adding a network, and servers to the network, use /channel add -auto #channel <network name> |
| 22:03 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 22:07 | | DeadNinja [annodomini@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: BRB, DEATH.] |
| 22:07 | | DeadNinja [annodomini@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 22:08 | < DeadNinja> | Alright. It works. Now, how do I make it reload logs into the channels? |
| 22:13 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 22:14 | < Derakon[work]> | I had to join just to share this tidbit with you all. |
| 22:14 | < Derakon[work]> | drawer is a dictionary that maps strings to tuples, with each string being a direction like "w", "nw", etc. (indicating the position of a camera with relation to the microscope). |
| 22:14 | < Derakon[work]> | dyeTuples = map(drawer.__getitem__, ports) |
| 22:15 | < Derakon[work]> | And yes, you'd get exactly the same result by doing [drawer[port] for port in ports] |
| 22:16 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:18 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 22:18 | < simon`> | McMartin, or others: what is necessary to prove a certain thing for all CFGs? got a tip on how far undecidability stretches in that domain? |
| 22:19 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | What kind of things? |
| 22:22 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | "Is string x a member of CFG y" for any string x and any CFG y is not only decidable, it's in P; O(n^3) in the absolute worst case, IIRC. |
| 22:32 | < DeadNinja> | So, uh. Anyone? |
| 22:32 | < DeadNinja> | The helpfile I'm using doesn't say anything about repeatedly reloading logs on join. |
| 22:38 | | * TheWatcher has never tried that, honestly - almost never actually turns irssi off, so has never needed to |
| 22:43 | | * Vornicus finds himself once again in need of a drawing program that isn't complete pants. |
| 22:43 | | * Vornicus is looking at you, GIMP. |
| 22:45 | | * TheWatcher has come to the conclusion that there is no single program that fits that description; thus has GIMP, photoshop, inkscape, and TVPaint to hand. |
| 22:48 | < DeadNinja> | Vornicus: I use Paint for simple things and pixel art, IrfanView for viewing, resizing, filtering and all that, and Macromedia Flash 5 for vector graphics, animations and stuff that needs to be easily modified later on (such as battlemaps for PbP games). |
| 22:49 | < DeadNinja> | I don't really need anything else. |
| 22:49 | | * Vornicus needs Precision. |
| 22:49 | <@Vornicus> | Therefore, today, I write PostScript. |
| 22:50 | < DeadNinja> | I suggest Paint. You're not going to get more precise than a single pixel. :P |
| 22:54 | | AnnoDomini [farkoff@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: This thing is going down.] |
| 22:56 | < DeadNinja> | I'm going to need to get some nick colouring. For the moment, I'll endure lack of reloading of logs. |
| 22:57 | < DeadNinja> | As long as they're there, I can managed to live without what was happening yesterday. |
| 22:59 | < DeadNinja> | I'll also require a real auto-ident. |
| 22:59 | < DeadNinja> | Authenticating on join is so last Tuesday. |
| 22:59 | < TheWatcher> | DeadNinja: http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/nickcolor.pl - that's the nick colour script I use |
| 23:00 | < TheWatcher> | http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/nickserv.pl is a decent auto-ident IME |
| 23:01 | < TheWatcher> | You might also want to grab http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/splitlong.pl to get automatic long-line splitting |
| 23:02 | < DeadNinja> | The client came with splitlong.pl already. Thanks for the other two, though. How do I integrate them? |
| 23:04 | < TheWatcher> | just drop them in the same place as splitlong.pl |
| 23:05 | < DeadNinja> | I did so. I don't expect that to be just that. |
| 23:06 | < TheWatcher> | They'll probably autoload on next start, or you can load them right away with /script load <scriptname> |
| 23:10 | < DeadNinja> | It doesn't seem to be finding nickserv.pl, for some reason. |
| 23:10 | < DeadNinja> | Even when I type in the path. |
| 23:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 23:14 | < DeadNinja> | Eh. Nevermind for now. I'll ask again tomorrow, or some other day. |
| 23:15 | | DeadNinja [annodomini@Nightstar-f86fe196.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: The voices are getting more insistent.] |
| 23:37 | < Derakon[work]> | Function name: zzz_finish_start. |
| 23:37 | < Derakon[work]> | :( |
| 23:39 | <@Vornicus> | :( |
| 23:39 | < Derakon[work]> | Especially since all it does is check if a separate thread (whose sole job is to wait for a motor to finish moving) is done. |
| --- Log closed Fri Nov 20 00:00:09 2009 |