| --- Log opened Thu Oct 22 00:00:08 2009 |
| 00:06 | < Derakon[work]> | For the curious, this is what the program's UI looks like now: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/omxscreenshot2.PNG |
| 00:06 | < Derakon[work]> | (Compare to what it looked like when I started: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/omxscreenshot.PNG ) |
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| 01:30 | < Alek> | and then there's the "in bed" game. or "according to prophecy". or all the other variations. |
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| 02:19 | < THANT|AFK|NWN> | wat Alek? |
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| 04:47 | < Reivthia> | You know, U3 would be actually be a perfectly acceptable application for your USB stick |
| 04:48 | < Reivthia> | if it didn't autorun. |
| 04:48 | < Reivthia> | You have to hold down 'shift' to prevent it from booting up, and there's no way to disable this behavior short of deleting it entirely. |
| 04:48 | < Reivthia> | And not all circumstances let shift do it either... |
| 04:49 | < SmithKurosaki> | :( |
| 04:50 | < simon`> | somehow, Ubuntu makes "October" into "As far into October as we can reasonably stretch it" |
| 04:53 | < ToxicFrog> | Reivthia: no, it wouldn't be, because it can't be uninstalled without special tools. |
| 04:55 | < Reivthia> | TF: Well, okay |
| 04:56 | < Reivthia> | But it would be a 'I don't terribly mind its presence on my USB stick' rather than a 'augh, stupid blasted bloody thing...' |
| 04:56 | < Reivthia> | It means that even if I was interested in fooling around with it at some point, I'm not going to bother. |
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| 05:08 | < Alek> | U3 does have its pluses. |
| 05:09 | < Alek> | like allowing certain applications to install to your stick and run from it from any computer. |
| 05:09 | < Reivthia> | Yeah, and I'd like to be able to toy with it at some point. |
| 05:09 | < Reivthia> | But if it renders the stick inconvinient-to-unusable the rest of the time... |
| 05:09 | < Reivthia> | Seriously. All I was wanting was a autorun button. |
| 05:10 | < Reivthia> | That I could choose 'no thank you' with - it is explicitly possible to run it later from the normal stick, afterall. |
| 05:18 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: yes, but you can do that with PortableApps |
| 05:18 | < Alek> | I'll... have to look that up. |
| 05:19 | < ToxicFrog> | Which has the advantage of being entirely free and not manifesting as a seperate, read-only drive |
| 05:19 | < simon`> | optogenetics -- sounds cool. |
| 05:19 | < ToxicFrog> | And also not having mandatory autorun; you can disable it. |
| 05:19 | < ToxicFrog> | portableapps.com |
| 05:19 | < ToxicFrog> | My own stick has, let's see |
| 05:19 | < Reivthia> | So, wait |
| 05:20 | < Reivthia> | This entire 'U3' thing is already done better by something opensource? |
| 05:20 | < Reivthia> | Who the heck thought U3 was a good idea t ostart with? |
| 05:20 | < ToxicFrog> | Dia, FileZilla, Firefox, PuTTY, 7-Zip, GIMP, Pidgin, VLC, and Sumatra PDF. |
| 05:20 | < Reivthia> | Or is there just some Really Clever Marketing Guru out there feeling smug right now? |
| 05:20 | < ToxicFrog> | Reivthia: no idea. U3 postdates PortableApps by, what, a year? |
| 05:21 | < Vornicus> | It's simple |
| 05:21 | < Vornicus> | U3 is designed for idiots. |
| 05:21 | < simon`> | what, exactly, is U3? |
| 05:21 | < Reivthia> | ... and PortableApps was developed by the open source community. |
| 05:22 | < Reivthia> | And therefore, while superior, has the UI capabilities of a dead chipmunk in an F16 cockpit?~ |
| 05:23 | < Reivthia> | ...oho. Okay, I think I see it here - PortableApps may be a nifty peice of software, but I suspect it's got a liscencing or code limitation |
| 05:23 | < Reivthia> | I'm not, eg, seeing Opera on the list of 'you may use it with this' |
| 05:23 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: Well, here's how the PortableApps UI works: |
| 05:23 | < Reivthia> | I get the impression you can't install arbitary software to it? |
| 05:23 | < ToxicFrog> | (1) you plug it in |
| 05:23 | < ToxicFrog> | (2) a menu appears |
| 05:23 | < ToxicFrog> | (3) You click the button |
| 05:23 | < Vornicus> | TF: (0) you install it. |
| 05:23 | < ToxicFrog> | Which is exactly as difficult as installing any other windows app |
| 05:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Reivthia: correct, it's not a general portableizer; these are apps that have been specially modified to be portable (which is the same thing U3 does) |
| 05:25 | < ToxicFrog> | Search for "opera" in there and you should find a beta of Opera Portable |
| 05:25 | < Reivthia> | Wheras Opera officially supports U3. |
| 05:25 | < Reivthia> | I'm wondering idly if it is not a case where 'if U3 is closed source, then we can distribute our closed source stuff without any liscence issues' |
| 05:26 | < Reivthia> | Instead of some requirement that to be PortableApp'd, you have to be open source yourself. |
| 05:27 | < ToxicFrog> | There's no such requirement. |
| 05:27 | < Reivthia> | Oh. Then why are all the programs I see there not closedsource?~ |
| 05:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Because it's easiest to portableize, because you can look at the source and see all the places that might need to be changed. |
| 05:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Whereas with closed source software, you have to hope they added some way for you to configure where it keeps all its settings and whatnot |
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| 05:28 | < ToxicFrog> | And hope that it's documented, and that the program actually respects it (ie: doesn't shit all over the registry or %APPDATA% anyways) |
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| 05:33 | < ToxicFrog> | As far as Opera specifically goes, a company like U3 that makes money hand over fist selling crippled USB drives to people who don't know what they're buying can afford to license Opera and create a custom build. |
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| 05:33 | < ToxicFrog> | The PA team, on the other hand, needs to convince the existing desktop release to keep all of its bits on the USB drive, which is nontrivial, which is why it's still in beta. |
| 05:34 | < Reivthia> | Ah, so it's the 'we make money, so we can pay you to support this' thing. |
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| 05:36 | < simon`> | heh |
| 05:36 | < simon`> | I wonder what people think when they copy-paste solutions to assignments. |
| 05:37 | < simon`> | probably not enough. |
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| 05:41 | < ToxicFrog> | Reivthia: exactly. Opera is, after all, a for-profit venture; they release the desktop version for free because it's fantastic advertising for all the other versions. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 22 11:47:13 2009 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 22 11:47:42 2009 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 22 13:43:32 2009 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 22 13:43:46 2009 |
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| 14:16 | | mode/#Code [-r] by ChanServ |
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| 16:29 | < gnolam> | Interesting. The amount of spam to my gmail account has dropped to about half of what it used to be. |
| 16:37 | < Dae> | congratulions. |
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| 17:03 | | ServerMode/#Code [+o Reivles] by *.Nightstar.Net |
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| 17:31 | | mode/#Code [+o Derakon] by Reivles |
| 17:31 | <@Derakon> | You realize of course I could be an impostor~ |
| 17:39 | < Vornicus> | An actual impostor wouldn't say that. |
| 17:42 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 17:43 | < TheWatcher> | But are you sure?~ |
| 17:43 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #Code |
| 17:43 | | mode/#Code [+o Vornicus] by Reivles |
| 17:43 | <@Derakon> | I might just be a really good impostor, after all. |
| 17:43 | | * TheWatcher eyes Reiver |
| 17:44 | <@Derakon> | I'm saying these things to allay your suspicion. |
| 17:44 | < TheWatcher> | Why is Reiv being an op bot? |
| 17:45 | <@Derakon> | No idea. |
| 17:46 | | * TheWatcher shrug |
| 17:48 | < TheWatcher> | This is reiv, who knows the crazy workings of his mind~ |
| 17:48 | <@Derakon> | Orthia. |
| 17:49 | < TheWatcher> | Hm. Point! |
| 18:00 | <@Derakon> | Okay, so I'm trying to decipher what kind of RAM this computer has based on what Memtest says, which is "266MHz (DDR533) / CAS 4-4-4-12 Single Channel 64-bit" |
| 18:00 | <@Derakon> | Also, "FSB: 200 MHz Type: DDR-II" |
| 18:01 | <@Derakon> | So I'm guessing what this says is that the computer has a 200MHz bus and is capable of handling DDR2 memory, but what's installed is somewhat-fancy DDR1 memory. |
| 18:02 | < TheWatcher> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM scroll down th the Specification Standards, and you'll see the list there. |
| 18:02 | < TheWatcher> | Yours looks like th eslower varient of the second line |
| 18:03 | | * Derakon nodsn. |
| 18:03 | <@Derakon> | Er, nods. |
| 18:05 | < TheWatcher> | So, looks like it's real DDR2. Just kinda on the tardy side. |
| 18:05 | <@Derakon> | Well, that's not a huge deal. It doesn't need to be fast. |
| 18:07 | <@Derakon> | This look like a reasonable replacement? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231043 |
| 18:07 | <@Derakon> | Or is there a possibility that this could have the wrong pin count? |
| 18:07 | <@Derakon> | I admit I haven't looked inside a computer case with intent to install in years. |
| 18:08 | < TheWatcher> | It almost certainly will be 240 pin, and that looks like it should be a drop-in replacement. Think that's what was causing the problems with the machine? |
| 18:08 | <@Derakon> | Well, given that memtest found errors... |
| 18:08 | <@Derakon> | Even if it's not the root cause the memory should be replaced. |
| 18:08 | < TheWatcher> | aye, agreed |
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| 18:36 | <@Derakon> | So, procedure for removing RAM: turn computer off. Unplug. Get an anti-static wristband or the like. Open case. Find RAM stick. Pull out gently, without wiggling, or bending. |
| 18:36 | <@Derakon> | Am I missing anything? |
| 18:38 | < TheWatcher> | There's usually a pair of clips on either end of the ram stick, you push them down and out away from the stick before attempting to remove it - the clips should push it most or all the way out |
| 18:38 | < jerith> | An antistatic bag to put it in? |
| 18:39 | <@Derakon> | Ah. And when you insert the new stick, they should engage automatically as you push it in? |
| 18:39 | <@Derakon> | Jerith: that may be difficult to find. |
| 18:39 | < jerith> | Pretty much. |
| 18:39 | < jerith> | Derakon: The new RAM should come in some. |
| 18:39 | <@Derakon> | Well, at the moment I just want to test removing one of the existing sticks. |
| 18:40 | | * jerith nods. |
| 18:40 | <@Derakon> | I don't think the computer actually needs 1.5GB, and if it can do with less then our biologists can get to work that much sooner. |
| 18:40 | < jerith> | If static is a concern, wrap it in foil or something. |
| 18:40 | <@Derakon> | Okay, I should be able to find some foil. |
| 18:41 | < jerith> | (I live near the coast, so it only really matters for long-term storage.) |
| 18:41 | <@Derakon> | I don't think static is a major concern, but why take chances? |
| 18:41 | | * jerith nods. |
| 18:48 | <@Derakon> | Hrm. What should the antistatic strap connect to? I.e. what's a safe ground? |
| 18:49 | <@Derakon> | Could I just clip it onto the computer case? |
| 18:51 | | * jerith shrugs. |
| 18:51 | < jerith> | I've never used one. |
| 19:01 | | * Derakon finds http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=189544&view=findpost&p=117 9925 which seems like a nice explanation. |
| 19:02 | < McMartin> | Perhaps Reiv is being an op bot so that somebody will re-register the channel |
| 19:02 | <@Derakon> | Shouldn't he register it? |
| 19:17 | < jerith> | It's his channel, after all. |
| 19:17 | < jerith> | I saw opped people, so I assumed he'd reregistered it already. |
| 19:22 | < McMartin> | I see no +r on the channel |
| 19:25 | <@Derakon> | "/chanserv info #code" says it isn't registered. |
| 19:25 | | * jerith nods. |
| 19:26 | < jerith> | We have only trusted ops in here now, so waiting for Reiv to return and register it shouldn't present a problem. |
| 19:27 | < jerith> | Besides, there are several people in here for whom not being opped poses no barrier. |
| 19:36 | < gnolam> | jerith: there were no aops even after the last services reset - it was Reiverbotting all the way. |
| 19:53 | < SmithKurosaki> | Huffman encoding! |
| 19:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | Yea, everytime someone logged on, reiver would op, not cs |
| 20:00 | < gnolam> | And I'm not at all bitter at losing my old aop. ;) |
| 20:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | I wish I was still opped, but I list it when the software changed |
| 20:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | (I just like having the shiny green dot beside my name is |
| 20:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | lost it* |
| 20:12 | | * Derakon sighs. |
| 20:12 | <@Derakon> | One of the other people here in the lab was trying to fix that computer, and managed to get a nice fat spark to form. |
| 20:13 | <@Derakon> | Somewhere in the vicinity of the power supply, I believe. |
| 20:13 | < SmithKurosaki> | oops |
| 20:13 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, off to lunch. |
| 20:15 | < gnolam> | As long as it's not "I wonder what happens if we press that little red button on the power supply" bad, which a couple of acquaintances of mine did back in the day. |
| 20:15 | < gnolam> | When trying to install a new sound card. |
| 20:16 | < gnolam> | The result was a resounding "FOOM!" and, upon opening the case, a computer whose innards were now completely black. |
| 20:16 | < gnolam> | The "little red button" was the 110/220 V switch. |
| 20:18 | | * SmithKurosaki claps |
| 20:27 | | AnnoDomini [farkoff@Nightstar-44c4aef6.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 20:27 | | mode/#Code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reivles |
| 20:28 | | OrthodocErik [Erik_Mesoy@Nightstar-be028908.bb.online.no] has joined #Code |
| 20:35 | | * Derakon returns. |
| 20:35 | <@Derakon> | So, having installed a new power supply, we're back at the issue we were dealing with before: on powering it on, we get a "one long, two short" beep pattern from the computer. |
| 20:35 | <@Derakon> | This is even if we put the memory back the way it was. |
| 20:35 | <@Derakon> | So...that's not good. |
| 20:38 | < TheWatcher> | No, no it's not. |
| 20:39 | < TheWatcher> | If it's an Award of Phoenix bios on there (you can tell my looking at the bios chip usually), that's a video error |
| 20:41 | <@Derakon> | Well, it's an Asus motherboard. I can't find the BIOS chip, but I wouldn't really know what it looks like anyway. |
| 20:41 | <@Derakon> | Would "video error" mean something like "I can't work with this video card"? |
| 20:41 | <@Derakon> | That seems like it would be a driver issue, and drivers aren't loaded until after POST, right? |
| 20:42 | < TheWatcher> | yeah, a video error means that the video card is either not installed, not responding correctly, or so foreign the bios can't work with it |
| 20:42 | < TheWatcher> | and generally the bios brings video up before the main POST |
| 20:42 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | So it can put status messages on the display, I guess. |
| 20:44 | < TheWatcher> | Yep. |
| 20:46 | < TheWatcher> | Know what model motherboard it is? |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | "P5GD2 Premium" |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | This thing: http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/roundupmobo/asus-p5gd2-premium-i915p.html |
| 20:49 | < TheWatcher> | yeah, so AMI bios |
| 20:50 | | * TheWatcher tries to remember the AMI codes, |
| 20:50 | <@Derakon> | This? http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/amibeep.htm |
| 20:50 | <@Derakon> | Says "failure in video system". |
| 20:51 | < TheWatcher> | Or, yeah, could look online *cough* |
| 20:51 | <@Derakon> | How'd you figure out what BIOS it was? |
| 20:51 | < TheWatcher> | scroll down in that ixbtlabs page to the Settings section (about 4/5ths) |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | Other pages are saying it's something called CrashFree 2. |
| 20:53 | <@Derakon> | But we should try just pulling the video card. |
| 20:53 | <@Derakon> | It shouldn't be required to boot, right? Like, for a headless mode. |
| 20:56 | < TheWatcher> | It /might/ work :/ |
| 20:59 | <@Derakon> | Tried it. It didn't. |
| 21:14 | | Thant [Thant@Nightstar-63cb80a6.cable.ntl.com] has joined #Code |
| 21:29 | | Thant [Thant@Nightstar-63cb80a6.cable.ntl.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 22:20 | <@Derakon> | So what the hell do I do with this system? |
| 22:20 | <@Derakon> | Given that it has actually lost functionality... |
| 22:20 | <@Derakon> | It used to boot and then freeze. Now it doesn't boot. |
| 22:21 | < GeekSoldier> | Well, at least it stopped freezing. |
| 22:21 | < GeekSoldier> | that was not at all helpful. sorry. |
| 22:21 | < TheWatcher> | While attempting to claim it is more stable now is tempting, do you have access to an alternative graphics card? Try bunging that in and see if it helps. |
| 22:22 | < TheWatcher> | Although, if someone managed to go and make an arc while messing around in there, there's a good chance Something Vital is kaputsky. |
| 22:30 | <@Derakon> | Yeah... |
| 22:30 | <@Derakon> | But we were getting that error before the power supply went zot, too. |
| 22:30 | <@Derakon> | I really don't want to deal with replacing the entire computer; there's a bunch of random cards plugged into it. |
| 22:31 | <@Derakon> | (Fundamentally, this is not my area of expertise nor what I want to be working on, dammit. >.<) |
| 22:33 | < TheWatcher> | They don't have a tech group there to provide that stuff? :/ |
| 22:33 | <@Derakon> | I sent an email to the IT head yesterday; he hasn't responded. |
| 22:34 | < TheWatcher> | Ugh, lovely. |
| 22:35 | < McMartin> | Yay, my first hilarious Windows 7 failure |
| 22:35 | < McMartin> | PuTTY and the VPN client I was using got v. confused; this resulted in PuTTY (and thus subversion) being convinced that it was running on my router |
| 22:35 | < TheWatcher> | .... |
| 22:35 | < TheWatcher> | Impressive! |
| 22:36 | < McMartin> | svn co svn+ssh://mcmartin@work.svn.server/blah/blah |
| 22:36 | < OrthodocErik> | Now that's an interesting failure. |
| 22:36 | < McMartin> | "mcmartin@mcmartin'srouter.dyndns.ws's password:" |
| 22:36 | < McMartin> | Yeah, I'm not actually convinced this was W7 per se |
| 22:36 | < McMartin> | Wiping PuTTY's registry and uninstalling the VPN stuff solved it. |
| 22:38 | < McMartin> | (Really, I'm blaming the VPN here; W7 has its own and I think it screwed over the other VPN client.) |
| 22:38 | < McMartin> | (Why this corrupted PuTTY's configuration is beyond me) |
| 22:49 | <@Derakon> | Okay, turns out we weren't properly seating the memory before, which is why we got the beeps. Go us. |
| 22:49 | <@Derakon> | So now we get no beeps, and no signal to peripherals like the monitor and keyboard. |
| 23:10 | <@Derakon> | And now, having moved the RAM to a different slot, it boots and seems to work OK with a normal monitor, but crashes immediately with a different one. |
| 23:11 | | Attilla [The.Attilla@FBC920.687A28.7638A6.BF0005] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 23:13 | | mode/#Code [+o Attilla] by Reivles |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 23 00:00:35 2009 |