| --- Log opened Fri Oct 09 00:00:11 2009 |
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| 01:55 | | * Vornicus <3 regular expressions. |
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| 03:23 | < Reivles> | If you had to get a GUI to function, how much pain and suffering does Python inflict on its creation? |
| 03:23 | < Reivles> | This would be one where you click on dots with a mouse. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | It has a few sets of bindings. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | If it's literally dots like in a "screen of pixels, these count" sense, pygame should cover you |
| 03:24 | < Derakon> | If you're going to use Pygame, then I have a few classes that should make it a bit easier, in Jetblade. |
| 03:25 | < Derakon> | But if you're talking like OS-appropriate windows, then you'll need something else. |
| 03:25 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 03:25 | <@McMartin> | Probably Python bindings to Glade or Qt. |
| 03:25 | <@Vornicus> | Is this the tricky, or is there something else? |
| 03:25 | <@Vornicus> | (cuz GUI? ask McM and Der) |
| 03:26 | < Derakon> | Ehhh, my only experience with OS-appropriate GUIs is wx, and I wouldn't recommend it. |
| 03:26 | <@Vornicus> | (or rather, bindings, etc) |
| 03:27 | < Reivles> | Trying to ponder how hard it is to achieve a basic star map. Hn. |
| 03:27 | <@Vornicus> | Reivles: I have some really wacky star map algorithms. |
| 03:27 | <@McMartin> | Drawing colored rectangles of width 1? |
| 03:27 | < Reivles> | And then just what level of computational complexity can be done in realtime. |
| 03:27 | <@McMartin> | If you want, basically, a framebuffer, which it sounds like, pygame is *absolutely* what you want. |
| 03:28 | < Reivles> | Aha |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | It lets you kick it old school, VGA style. |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | In a bare window |
| 03:28 | <@Vornicus> | Reiv: realtime stuff you can throw around literally thousands of physics objects. |
| 03:28 | < Reivles> | How painful is it to get pygame to handle 3D? |
| 03:28 | < Derakon> | Um, use Pyglet. |
| 03:28 | < Derakon> | Which is Python+OpenGL. |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | Quite. |
| 03:28 | < Derakon> | PyGame is a wrapper around SDL, which is explicitly 2D. |
| 03:29 | < Derakon> | Well, as far as graphics are concerned, anyway. Its event system can be used for anything, for example. |
| 03:29 | <@McMartin> | And it does 3D by itself wrapping OpenGL |
| 03:31 | < Reivles> | Hn. |
| 03:32 | < Reivles> | This will bear thinking about, but thank you |
| 03:35 | <@Vornicus> | My algorithms are kinda slow for generating a starmap but they've got sticky constraints. |
| 03:37 | < Reivles> | Star generation isn't too much of a problem; my main thought is that I wanted a lot of fairly complex behaviors to be relatively autonomous. |
| 03:37 | < Reivles> | I fear this may well be biting of rather more than I can chew, given I'm not the writer of Dwarf Fortress~ |
| 03:37 | <@Vornicus> | Toady bit off more than he can chew. |
| 03:38 | < Reivles> | He's chewing rather well!~ |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, but he /really/ needs to work on somethig other than adding complexity right now. |
| 03:39 | < Reivles> | Like factorisation, or a UI? |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | Both. |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | A great many things should be pulled out of hardcoding. |
| 03:40 | < Reivles> | Like? |
| 03:40 | < Derakon> | Reactions and workshops. |
| 03:40 | < Derakon> | Though that's in the next version, AIUI. |
| 03:40 | < Derakon> | Skills. |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | but the UI needs a lot of help too. There's something like half a dozen different command sets to know to access various kinds of construction. |
| 03:43 | < Reivles> | It also bothers me how huge the releases are - the next one implements poisons, medicine, but not antivenoms. ? |
| 03:43 | < Reivles> | But I think I see your point, yeah. |
| 03:44 | < Reivles> | Aside: Why do we carry out principal component analysis on correlation matrix rather than covariance matrix? |
| 03:44 | < Reivles> | In preference, I mean. |
| 03:47 | | * Vornicus doesn't know what those are! |
| 03:47 | < Reivles> | Awh, they're awesome |
| 03:47 | < Reivles> | I just don't fully comprehend them~ |
| 03:47 | < Reivles> | (Th ereason for my UI questions: I want to do a 4X game. It has occoured to me that this is liable to be vaugely modeled on the way Sim City worked - you don't command individual trade ships, you just set up trade /lanes/ and /they/ figure it out from there.) |
| 03:47 | < Namegduf> | Interesting. |
| 03:50 | <@Vornicus> | (a lot of DF's UI infuriation though comes from the lack of mouse support...)) |
| 03:50 | <@Vornicus> | (and another lot is from its pure-text interface, but you can do a hell of a lot better than DF's pure-text.)) |
| 03:51 | <@Vornicus> | (and I keep mismatching parentheses)) |
| 03:51 | < Reivles> | (Etc. My ponderance is how hard it will be to get a Very Basic Mockup going, so I can play with concepts.) |
| 03:52 | < Reivles> | The idea being, sort of like Sim City, you don't have a direct hand in most matters - you're the Gummermint, you set edicts, patrol routes, military funding/programs, and the game reflects that. |
| 03:53 | < Reivles> | But only if you assemble a dedicated fleet do you start directly commanding what goes where and how; the rest of it is theoretically self-determining via logical values. |
| 03:56 | <@Vornicus> | I really wish javascript had a proper console, my life would be much easier while I'm trying to prototype model stuff. |
| 04:10 | < Reivles> | (Note: The Sim City analogy is only a very recent correlation.) |
| 04:11 | < Reivles> | (I've mostly been pnodering how to have a 4X title where you managed a Glorious Empire without being bogged in the details...) |
| 04:13 | < Reivles> | (Mostly 'cuz if you have a rich empire with intricate trade routes and traffic lanes and importaint planets... it gives the world vastly more fun when it comes time to Blow Shit Up(tm).) |
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| 05:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | What's 4X? |
| 05:43 | <@McMartin> | Standard turn-based strategy. |
| 05:43 | <@McMartin> | X-plore, X-pand, X-ploit, X-terminate |
| 05:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | huh |
| 05:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ah |
| 05:43 | < Derakon> | Oh, so that's the meaning of that term? |
| 05:43 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 05:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | <obligatory 4E comment> |
| 05:43 | <@Vornicus> | Space Empires, Civ, MoO, GalCiv, etc, are 4xs. |
| 05:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Something that has a galaxy model akin to spore would interest me on its own. Not that there's replay value, but it'd be cool! |
| 05:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Or anything that breaks the square tile mold.. |
| 05:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Never figured out a good way to do that though.. even on a plane it's hard, nevermind a sphere |
| 05:47 | <@Vornicus> | Hexagons. |
| 05:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | slight improvement |
| 05:48 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7861878@N06/3556592941/ <--- this uses hexagons and a dozen pentagons to make an actual sphere. |
| 05:48 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7861878@N06/3994917018/ <--- these stars are places at floating-point values and have a particular level of connectivity. |
| 05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. Maybe if the hexagons/pentagons were broken down into triangles, and nearly everything took up a few, it'd be good enough |
| 05:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Even if the sphere-ness is an illusion |
| 05:50 | <@Vornicus> | Triangles are an incredible pain in the ass. |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | You think squares have horrible rules for corner connections? Triangles are even worse. |
| 05:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Well, I was assuming everything would traverse a couple at a minimum, giving you ad-hoc hexagons |
| 05:54 | <@Vornicus> | Perfection would be polygons for biomes, cities at point sources which emanate a circle, and the circle-polygon intersections give your resources. |
| 05:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Probably doesn't help though. You end up having an orientation, so you sometimes can't fit something because it needs a triangle pointing the other way |
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| 05:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So just using smaller hexagons would work better |
| 05:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Get them small enough, and allow a few intermediate orientations, and you've effectively duplicated a non-tiled setup, but without the floating point fun |
| 05:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Also means you're pounding pathfinding. Who uses that anyway? *g* |
| 05:59 | <@Vornicus> | A* is pretty impressive. |
| 06:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | aye, but increasing your node count by 100x is still going to cost you |
| 06:00 | <@Vornicus> | Sure. |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | But not as much as you might think. A* doesn't go through anywhere /near/ all locations, unless it fails. And even then I think you can prune stuff "inside" of cycles; this is after all a planar graph. |
| 06:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | aye. I'd love to experiment with finding critical points, to make pathfinding simpler |
| 06:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hell, he said that the player defines trade routes? Solves it right there! |
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| 06:58 | | * Derakon idly reads about the Knight Rider car on Wikipedia, encounters this line: "According to Episode 55, "Dead of Knight", KITT's reaction time is one nanosecond, and his "memory" capacity is 1,000 megabits." |
| 06:58 | < Alek> | ahahaha |
| 06:59 | < Alek> | 125MB of ram? |
| 06:59 | < Alek> | weak |
| 06:59 | < Alek> | the reaction time is good, though. |
| 07:02 | <@McMartin> | Worst pathfining AI ever |
| 07:02 | <@McMartin> | Keeps trying to path through walls |
| 07:03 | < Derakon> | Equip it with a bulldozer. |
| 07:03 | < Derakon> | Problem solved. |
| 07:03 | <@Vornicus> | It forgot they were there. |
| 07:05 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:17 | | * Vornicus ponders. He should at some point consider figuring out UI workflows for DF. |
| 07:19 | <@AnnoDomini> | Uh, what do you mean? Like learning to use the DF UI? |
| 07:20 | <@Vornicus> | More like: how to make the DF UI discoverable. |
| 07:20 | <@Vornicus> | how to make it more efficient. |
| 07:21 | <@Vornicus> | With particular focus on the Embark screen, first off. |
| 07:22 | <@Vornicus> | (because good god the embark screen. |
| 07:23 | <@AnnoDomini> | What's wrong with the embark screen? |
| 07:26 | <@Vornicus> | Mostly, the size of the inventory list and the near-complete lack of effective categorization. |
| 07:27 | <@AnnoDomini> | You know you can just write the name of the item you want? |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | Sure. But that assumes you know what item you want. |
| 07:28 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm not sure what you consider to be effective categorization. |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | hang on, building up an example. |
| 07:29 | | * AnnoDomini hangs. |
| 07:35 | <@Vornicus> | Let's actually start by saying this: it should not take multiple steps to add more than one copy of a particular item, and adding an item should be an easily discoverable tast. |
| 07:38 | <@Vornicus> | Right now, if I want to add, say, 100 dwarven ales, I have to go n, down to drinks, right, down to ale, and then once it's there, hit the + 99 times to get 100 of them. |
| 07:38 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm not sure what you're referring to. Adding items is just n-finding a category-finding the item. |
| 07:38 | <@McMartin> | Note that step 1 is completely opaque. |
| 07:39 | <@Vornicus> | Almost. Step 1 is listed as an available action but very poorly documented. |
| 07:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | It's given in the, whatsit, interface tips on the bottom of the embark screen? |
| 07:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yeah. |
| 07:39 | <@Vornicus> | Right. We don't know what n does other than "new" |
| 07:40 | <@Vornicus> | At least until we press it, but even then. |
| 07:41 | <@AnnoDomini> | It would probably help if it was 'new item'. |
| 07:43 | <@Vornicus> | So here are some potential improvements. 1. make the whole thing a treeview; the first category is "items we're embarking with" 2. make the treeview deeper; possible categories include "food" "tools" "weapons" "clothes" "textiles" "building materials" "reagents" "fabulous prizes" |
| 07:46 | <@Vornicus> | 3. alphabetize all the lists. RIght now the "leather" category for me says cow, donkey, mule, cat, dog, giant bat... and goes on for a page and a half. |
| 07:47 | <@Vornicus> | 4. give me some sense how far down the list I am. Right now my "meat/fish" category has /exactly/ two pages worth of meat. |
| 07:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Because it doesn't matter what the leather type is, for aspects other than price. :P |
| 07:47 | <@Vornicus> | Right, but it gets annoying. |
| 07:49 | <@Vornicus> | On the other hand, stone and metal (though, I grant, few people bring any) do have important qualities that users may care about. |
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| 07:54 | <@Vornicus> | Though being more widely sortable would help too. |
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| 07:58 | <@Vornicus> | 5. make it so we can see what we already have in the treeview, in the context of similar things: the tree is authoritative and says these things, and the first category just keeps track of all the crap we've bought in one place. |
| 08:03 | <@Vornicus> | THis is just the inventory stuff I've gone over, there. |
| 08:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | But what about that sense of victory and superiority when you finally master the inconcievable UI? Not to mention the gameplay itself. |
| 08:06 | <@Vornicus> | Losing may be fun, but I assure you that trying and failing to explore an opaque UI is not. |
| 08:15 | | * Vornicus needs to go to bed. |
| 08:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | DF is like one of those secret medieval crafts. The only way you get to learn is to have someone who knows it already teach you. :p |
| 08:19 | <@Vornicus> | And this is Bad. |
| 08:20 | <@Vornicus> | For interface at least. |
| 08:21 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:30 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 08:30 | < gnolam> | On a related note, the reason most old games are "unplayable" now isn't usually the gameplay but the UI. |
| 08:31 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Yes. |
| 08:34 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | RRT2, which is ostensibly a modern game, is unplayable on modern systems because nobody thought to put a "scroll speed" slider in. |
| 08:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | Badly calibrated controls are bad, indeed. So are controls requiring extra limbs to operate. |
| 08:39 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Or a cheat sheet... that changes. |
| 08:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | However, I don't really mind UIs whose complexity is just learning the proper sequence of commands. |
| 08:41 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | and I'm arguing that in DF, that's not true. |
| 08:41 | | * Vornicus-Latens goestobeddammit |
| 08:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | The only truly bad example I've found is the import agreement screen. |
| 08:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | I can understand why that is, I guess. |
| 08:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | That said, DF does have four different movement interfaces. |
| 08:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. I might have eventually gotten some trade to work |
| 08:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | on a scale of 1 to 10, DF rates a 3 or 4 for UI |
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| 09:38 | < Orthia> | Aye, and most 'remakes' that people want to do tend to be 10% gameplay, 20% new graphics, 70% Oh God A Modern UI. |
| 09:41 | | Orthia is now known as Reivthia |
| 09:50 | | * McMartin wird ihm Wissenschaft tun |
| 10:08 | < gnolam> | What. |
| 10:08 | | * McMartin will do science to it? |
| 10:13 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Mroing, chrilden. |
| 10:25 | < Reivthia> | You know, that actually occours to me |
| 10:25 | < Reivthia> | How hard would it be to make a game that was 'decoupled' from its UI? |
| 10:25 | < Reivthia> | So that you could write a game, but eg open source its frontend, so people could update and upgrade it as time went on? |
| 10:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Kind of not impossible, on some level. |
| 10:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | You could very easily have replacable UIs for things like networked card games. |
| 10:47 | <@MyCatVerbs> | There's a realtime multiplayer roguelike called "Crossfire" that has about three or four different clients for it, all open source. That case is just a result (AFAIK) of them having rewritten the client a few times in different languages. |
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| 14:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | Also, NetHack |
| 14:08 | | * AnnoDomini pipes up. |
| 14:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | What about Nethack? |
| 14:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | What I'd like to see in Nethack's GUI is a better handling of containers. |
| 14:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | Even DF's containers are easier to use. |
| 14:29 | < GeekSoldier> | Man, DF is one of those games that's real hard to get back into after having not played for months. I sat looking at my fortress for about 20 minutes trying to figcue out what was going on. |
| 14:37 | < Reivthia> | Yeah, always start fresh. |
| 14:37 | < Reivthia> | Preferably after sticking an extra zero or two on the Megabeasts bite power. |
| 14:41 | | * TheWatcher is still convinced that DF is the Blender of the game world |
| 14:42 | < Reivthia> | Lovely idea, but someone with an actual clue about UI needs to come in and bat everyone upside the head... except it's so far along now that no-one would be foolish enough to try? |
| 14:44 | <@AnnoDomini> | The UI is functional, and so long as it remains so, I have no real complaints. There are, after all, fan-created utilities like Dwarf Therapist, which aid you. |
| 14:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, more like there may well be something useful and decent hiding in there, but I have far better things to do with my time than attempt to deal with its actively user-hostile interface. |
| 14:45 | < Reivthia> | hah! Yes. |
| 14:45 | < Reivthia> | DF is a medieval trade - you cannot learn it, you must have it explained to you by one proficient. |
| 14:46 | < Reivthia> | Or more to the point, the learning curve is such that you need someone to throw you a ladder from the top of the cliff. |
| 14:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Which, to me, is a Complete And Total Fail in a game. Hell, it is in any modern desktop app. |
| 14:47 | < Reivthia> | Well, he's stated IIRC he wants to leave the UI and interface till last, so it's not outdated before he's finished writing it |
| 14:48 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes, I've heard that argument before |
| 14:48 | < Reivthia> | But I get teh impression that he sucks at UI in general, even if his ideas are good otherwise~ |
| 14:48 | <@TheWatcher> | I still think it's a crock of shit |
| 14:48 | < Reivthia> | (Remember, the game is still alpha. We just play it anyway 'cuz it's an impressive alpha.) |
| 14:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Even if he does suck at UI stuff, there are plenty of people out there who don't. |
| 14:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | That would require Toady to hand over game development to someone else. |
| 14:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | UI really isn't separable from the actual meat of the game. |
| 14:54 | <@TheWatcher> | No, it'd require him to develop like a grown up |
| 14:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. He's not interested in UI. |
| 15:17 | < SmithKurosaki> | o.o0 |
| 15:23 | <@TheWatcher> | ... godsdamnit, why is variable uninitialised here?! *stabs it* |
| 15:39 | | * TheWatcher EYES df (the command, I note) |
| 15:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Why is this splitting information over two lines?! ;.; |
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| 16:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: mine isn't - maybe it's the terminal and not df? |
| 16:35 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I've worked around it now |
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| 17:57 | | MyCatVerbs changed the topic of #code to: Welcome to #Code! | Rants and monologues are encouraged | Pastebin: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/ || ? x, ich wird ihm Wissenchaft x! |
| 18:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: apologies if I butchered that in my attempt to universally quantify it. |
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| 22:29 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 22:44 | <@AnnoDomini> | So, my project for Managing Information Systems is a charsheet database. A webapp, probably written in PHP, with login stuff over SSL. Database will probably be MySQL. The teacher suggested we use Debian if we go with the Linux on the server side option. |
| 22:44 | <@AnnoDomini> | Anything seriously wrong with what I wrote here? |
| 22:44 | <@Vornicus> | Nothing at all. |
| 22:44 | < gnolam> | Nope. |
| 22:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | I seem to recall that Apache is for Linux, yes? |
| 22:46 | < gnolam> | It's actually cross platform. |
| 22:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm a bit familiar with that, at least. I'll have to learn PHP, how to use SSL, and familiarize myself with MySQL's particulars. |
| 22:46 | < gnolam> | But it's most commonly used under Unices. |
| 22:47 | < gnolam> | Well, learning PHP takes all of an afternoon, if you've ever used C or a C-like language before. :) |
| 22:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | No problem there, then. |
| 22:47 | < Namegduf> | Apache isn't a particularly good webserver to use, but if you're not expecting a lot of load and have RAM to spare... |
| 22:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | I even have a buddy who's been working with PHP for a semester. |
| 22:48 | < gnolam> | Namegduf: Oh? Explain. |
| 22:48 | < gnolam> | Last I checked, Apache had a market share of ~50%, including some really high traffic sites. |
| 22:48 | < Namegduf> | Some, but not most. |
| 22:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | Namegduf: I expect one user - the test user, which will be me, when I show it to the teacher. In the unlikely situation that I make something actually useful, I'll burn that bridge when I come to i.t |
| 22:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | *it. |
| 22:49 | < Namegduf> | Most heavy use places use Lighttpd or Cherokee or similar. |
| 22:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | Is SSL difficult to use with PHP? |
| 22:49 | < Namegduf> | No. |
| 22:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | Cool. |
| 22:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | Given that I've done webapps before, I don't expect any difficulties in completing this task. |
| 22:50 | < Namegduf> | Apache is quite heavy on RAM usage and scales poorly. The gains offered by mod_php are very quickly negated by the fact that mod_php is unsuitable for any production use, ever, because it requires use of prefork Apache. |
| 22:50 | < Namegduf> | Which can serve an incredible *connection per process* at once. |
| 22:52 | < Namegduf> | Apache + FastCGI is "okay", at least in my usage, although the default settings cause it to use quite insane amounts of RAM, but it's still far, far heavier than the others. |
| 22:52 | < Namegduf> | Apache's pluses include, firstly, that "everyone knows it" so it's what is used first, and you can't move cleanly because you need to port your pretty URL magic to the new webserver. |
| 22:53 | < Namegduf> | The second isn't really so much a plus as a mitigator; you can put it behind another webserver like nginx working as a transparent caching proxy to reduce load some. |
| 22:57 | < Namegduf> | Apache's marketshare is largely because everyone knows it as the default HTTPD, it works okay if you've a tiny audience (which is well over 50% of the servers out there) and lots of RAM for said tiny audience. Oh, and it *is* genuinely easier to use than the others, and more featureful than a lot in terms of modules for interesting things. |
| 22:58 | < Namegduf> | Oh, yeah, and Cherokee lacks decent packages for Debian. Not sure about Lighty. |
| 22:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | Mm'kay. I have a second item, from the bowels of .NET Project: Webforum, written in ASP.NET, using WEB PARTS components. |
| 22:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | Is this horribly wrong? |
| 22:59 | < Namegduf> | ".NET", so yes, IMO. :P |
| 23:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | Well, I don't get to choose. |
| 23:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | The teacher read off a pre-assigned list. |
| 23:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | A certain plus is that there are repeats, and one high-achiever who's my buddy has the same project. |
| 23:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:27 | < gnolam> | Huh. Good, non-SOP-for-every-OS UI behavior from GNOME. Unexpected. :o |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | Woah, really? |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | When? |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | This must be noted down for the ages. |
| 23:28 | < gnolam> | Its password entry widget warns you if caps lock is on. |
| 23:29 | < Namegduf> | Oh, right. I thought that was SOP. |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 10 00:00:26 2009 |