| --- Log opened Sat Oct 03 00:00:45 2009 |
| 00:07 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 00:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 00:28 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 00:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ugh... so vim's recovery text suggests that you write the recovered file to another file name, then compare them.. so why can't it compare for me? |
| 00:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (gvim's gives me a similar yet different screen, with a command list including d/u/k.. whatever that's supposed to mean |
| 00:43 | < Finale> | it's a germanic mallard |
| 00:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've finally decided to try other editors again |
| 00:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | such is eclipse... despite being unable to tell that it's an editor from their home page |
| 00:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | it's covered in corporate mumbo-jumbo |
| 00:51 | | * Rhamphoryncus starts installing >600 megs of editors.. |
| 00:54 | | * Rhamphoryncus is installing unauthenticated packages.. from archive.ubuntu.com >.> |
| 00:57 | < Finale> | http://www.techcomedy.com/single/single.php?content_number=80877 |
| 00:57 | < Finale> | enjoy |
| 01:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | done reading it. Still downloading |
| 01:04 | < Finale> | read the rest of the site. |
| 01:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | that'd make sense |
| 01:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "This year, we'll be pantomiming the best questions from Yahoo Answers. NSFW. -Biosynthetic" |
| 01:18 | < Finale> | link? |
| 01:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Rhamphoryncus: I'm quite fond of jedit, myself |
| 01:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Finale: somewhere on this page, it doesn't seem to offer anchors or permanent links: http://www.techcomedy.com/text_con.php?type=email |
| 01:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: looks.. the same as all the others |
| 01:25 | | * ToxicFrog shrugs |
| 01:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a syntax-hilighting editor with customizeable language modes. |
| 01:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's what I wanted, that's what I got. |
| 01:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I was looking for a replacement for nedit, which doesn't have UTF-8 support, which was starting to become an issue for me) |
| 01:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahh yes, lack of utf-8 would kill an editor for me |
| 01:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | It makes me sad, because nedit is fantastic otherwise, and the degree and ease with which you can customize its language modes completely destroys everything else |
| 01:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | What killed it last time I looked was the particular multiline regex support I had been using in gvim, but I've now forgotten just what that was |
| 01:30 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:51 | < simon`> | ugh |
| 01:52 | < simon`> | I'd use a less bloated editor than vim, but I can't be bothered until someone makes an editor with similar enough shortcuts but with a tidier codebase. |
| 02:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh "similar enough shortcuts" |
| 02:03 | <@Derakon> | I don't consider apps bloated unless the features you don't need are intrusive. |
| 02:04 | <@Derakon> | And vim is sufficiently far from intrusive that I'm sure there's many useful commands for it that I just don't know about. |
| 02:04 | < Finale> | http://www.techcomedy.com/single/new_stories.php?content_number=80857 |
| 02:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | vim is sufficiently unintuitive that there's thousands of useful features that you'll never figure out |
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| 04:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | huh. Anjuta's default syntax highlighting is pretty close to gvim's |
| 04:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (... we've replaced Rhamph's editor with Anjuta. Let's see if he notices..) |
| 04:10 | <@McMartin> | Aquamacs and TextWrangler on OS X for me, and Notepad++ on Windows. |
| 04:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wait a sec.. I coulda sworn it was using a variable width font, but now it's fixed width |
| 04:11 | | * Vornicus uses TextWrangler. |
| 04:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | gnome help is still as useless as ever |
| 04:18 | | * Rhamphoryncus fights the urge to use :w in anjuta |
| 04:19 | <@Vornicus> | ...damn. |
| 04:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | eclipse hung/crashed on startup, heh. Some JVM error |
| 04:19 | | * Vornicus asks Freenode's #math a question, gets answers that are a lot better than he thought would be possible. |
| 04:20 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Product%5B1-1.0%2F%28%28Prime%5Bi%5D%2B1%29 %5E3%29%2C%7Bi%2C1%2C1000%7D%5D <--- the probability that the sum of two fractions a/b +c/d in lowest terms has a denominator of lcm(b, d) |
| 04:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hey, jedit kind of reminds me of gvim |
| 04:23 | <@McMartin> | jedit is not bad at all |
| 04:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... |
| 04:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oww. Searching for IDE with the add/remove applications thing in ubuntu sucks |
| 04:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "Canonical provides critical updates for OpenOffice.org Formula until October 2010." |
| 04:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | guess how many packages have a line similar to that? :P |
| 04:30 | <@Vornicus> | search on " ide" then? |
| 04:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, it's not that smart |
| 04:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's the Java equivalent to C++ "public Foo(): Foo(4) {}" |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | The first statement in the constructor is "this(4)". |
| 04:51 | <@McMartin> | Assuming you mean "How do I forward one constructor to another". |
| 04:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Thank you. |
| 04:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes. |
| 04:51 | <@McMartin> | If you want to do that to its superclass, s/this/super/. |
| 04:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | And super() to forward to the super- yes. |
| 04:51 | <@McMartin> | And there's only ever one. |
| 05:04 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@is.an.awesome.Network.Administrator.on.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 05:09 | <@Vornicus> | So. 77% of the time, if you add two rational numbers in lowest terms a/b + c/d, the denominator of the result will be bd. 95% of the time, the denominator of the result will be lcd(b,d). |
| 05:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... what? |
| 05:43 | <@Vornicus> | If you pick two rational numbers and add them. |
| 05:44 | <@Vornicus> | 77% of the time you'll get another rational number with denominator b*d. |
| 05:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | uhuh |
| 05:45 | <@Vornicus> | (two random rational numbers that is) |
| 05:45 | <@Vornicus> | And 95% of the time you'll get a rational number with denominator lcd(b*d) |
| 05:45 | <@Vornicus> | er, lcd(b, d) |
| 05:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | what happened to 23%? |
| 05:46 | <@Vornicus> | (b * d and lcd(b, d) are the same for all the 77%) |
| 05:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Ah, that's what I wondered about |
| 05:47 | <@Vornicus> | THe remaining 5%, you get stuff like 1/3 + 1/6 = 1/2. |
| 05:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So you've showed that you'll usually get an equal or larger denominator, rarely smaller? |
| 05:48 | <@Vornicus> | Essentially, yes. |
| 05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I could have told you that anyway, but it's interesting to justify it mathematically |
| 05:49 | <@Vornicus> | I actually got /exact figures/ |
| 05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Although that assumes random numbers, which is pretty unlikely. More likely is a fixed denominator at input, possibly fed back on itself |
| 05:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But simply having addition will reach a stable point once it has a factor for all the inputs. You need to mix in multiplication or division to get really large |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | Which reminds me. |
| 05:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | incidentally, one of python's influences used a rational type |
| 05:52 | | * Vornicus wonders about the same question for multiplication. |
| 05:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You should also consider sum/product of a sequence |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | And actually addition can be quite frighteningly large. |
| 05:54 | <@Vornicus> | Remember that you're multiplying the denominator. |
| 05:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Only if you have a randomly selected denominator. This is rare though |
| 05:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Much more likely to have a random numerator with a fixed denominator |
| 05:55 | <@Vornicus> | Sure. But you only need the numbers up to 30 to crack 32 bits. |
| 05:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | *shrug* |
| 05:56 | | * Vornicus thinks actually that it's smaller than that... |
| 05:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Here's something for you: generate random numbers who's product would average approximately 1, ie range between 0.5 and 2, then see how large the denominator becomes |
| 05:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/03/problem-with-integer-division.html |
| 05:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/02/early-language-design-and-development .html |
| 05:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "Anecdote: I tried to compute my taxes once using ABC. The program, which seemed fairly straightforward, was taking way too long to compute a few simple numbers. Upon investigation it turned out that it was doing arithmetic on numers with thousands of digits of precision, which were to be rounded to guilders and cents for printing." |
| 05:59 | <@Vornicus> | Pfffff. |
| 06:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hum. Random numbers between n**m and n**-m |
| 06:02 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, results from Excel: I crack 32 bits at LCM(1..23); at LCM(1..41) it hits 53+ and I defeat floats. |
| 06:02 | <@Vornicus> | er, 58+ |
| 06:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oi, I feel rusty.. isn't it just the product of certain primes? Or is it.. multiples of some of those primes? |
| 06:06 | <@Vornicus> | LCM? Something like that, yes. def lcm(a, b): return (a / gcd(a, b)) * b |
| 06:07 | <@Vornicus> | def gcd(a, b): while b: a, b = b, a % b;; return a |
| 06:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. 2..23 of primes is the highest product that can fit in 32 bits |
| 06:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But something like 1/4 needs duplicate primes |
| 06:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My gut thinks there should be ways to cheat, but.. what's the purpose of this again? |
| 06:11 | <@Vornicus> | What, this stuff? I was curious. |
| 06:12 | <@Vornicus> | I knew that 60% of random pairs of numbers were coprime. |
| 06:14 | <@Vornicus> | I wondered, then, how often you'd end up with pairs of /rationals/ whose denominators were coprime (77%), and how often you'd have to reduce further than just lcm(b,d) (5%) |
| 06:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahh |
| 06:22 | <@Vornicus> | The impressive thing I found was that I ended up with an exact (if not actually closed form) answer for both of these. |
| 06:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | cool |
| 06:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My point of view has been what alternative systems would be more useful for programming |
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| 08:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So.. insane yet possible solution to 1-based vs 0-based.. have the stored value mean the absolute of a negative two's complement value |
| 08:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | IOW, store it as -1 through -8, and flip it |
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| 16:42 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: oh, thought that link looked familiar. It's just a peculiarity of how pattern matching works in the face of laziness. Random pointless edge case. |
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| 21:35 | <@jerith> | twisted.python.log.StdioOnnaStick |
| 21:36 | | * jerith <3 glyf and co. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Oct 04 00:00:00 2009 |