| --- Log opened Sun Jul 19 00:00:54 2009 |
| 00:03 | | TarinakyKai [~Tarinaky@Nightstar-16638.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 00:04 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@Nightstar-16638.plus.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 00:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:26 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: unless they blow your instruction cache. |
| 00:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:08 | | Reivthia [~Orthianz@Nightstar-22340.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 01:36 | | * Derakon ponders fonts. |
| 01:37 | < Derakon> | Oh, wait, I know how to deal with this, I think. |
| 01:37 | < Derakon> | Never mind. |
| 02:10 | | * Derakon adds the Font and FontManager classes, as well as a font config file. |
| 02:10 | < Derakon> | Another little bit of cleanup done. |
| 02:26 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: z?] |
| 03:36 | <@Consul> | http://stashbox.org/573899/kazoo.ogg -- The electric kazoo. It has some problems I can hopefully solve. |
| 03:38 | < Derakon> | Neat. Weird, but neat. |
| 03:38 | <@Consul> | Playing style has a lot to do with it, too. All those glottal stops give things away. |
| 03:38 | <@Consul> | Gotta learn to play with some dynamics. |
| 03:39 | <@Consul> | Who would've thought I'd be discussing the finer points of playing a kazoo? |
| 03:39 | <@Consul> | The output of the pickup is pretty low, though. Lower than I was expecting. |
| 03:39 | <@Consul> | But I left the piezo in the plastic case and glued that right on. |
| 03:39 | <@Consul> | I have some naked piezos here. I think I'll try attaching one directly. |
| 03:40 | <@Consul> | I have one more kazoo to use. |
| 03:41 | <@Consul> | I also made a pretty bad mistake with the shrink tubing. |
| 03:46 | | * Derakon brings the SoundManager class up to spec, and, for lack of better ideas, makes the game play a tone when the player finishes climbing onto a ledge. |
| 03:46 | <@Consul> | Ooh, need any music or sound design? |
| 03:46 | <@Consul> | I have a field recorder. |
| 03:47 | < Derakon> | Anything you'd care to contribute would be more than welcome. |
| 03:47 | <@Consul> | A few footfalls on different terrain I'd imagine... |
| 03:48 | < Derakon> | Yep. |
| 03:48 | < Derakon> | I'm still working out the code side of that. |
| 03:48 | <@Consul> | Any weapons sounds? |
| 03:48 | < Derakon> | Eventually, but weaponry is still pretty up in the air right now. |
| 03:49 | <@Consul> | Yeah, some sounds will need to wait until I see what they're for, I suppose. |
| 03:49 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.1.54.ns-25924] has quit [Quit: <Insert Humorous and/or serious exit message here>] |
| 03:49 | < Derakon> | Which reminds me, I was going to see about getting some attack animations made. |
| 03:50 | <@Consul> | What terrains will there be? |
| 03:50 | <@Consul> | I can at least do footfalls. |
| 03:51 | < Derakon> | Hm. Dirt, rock, and metal should cover most of it. |
| 03:51 | < Derakon> | It'll certainly cover what I have right now. |
| 03:52 | <@Consul> | No grass or dry leaves? ;-) |
| 03:52 | < Derakon> | I'd mentally lumped grass under "dirt", but I guess it is different, isn't it? |
| 03:52 | <@Consul> | Just to let you know, I've never done this kind of work before, but I'm more than happy to give it a go. |
| 03:53 | < Derakon> | Any project that isn't a learning experience isn't worth doing. :) |
| 03:53 | <@Consul> | Grass doesn't make enough noise to record, so I might have to get clever with that one. |
| 03:53 | < Derakon> | Well. Unless you're getting paid. |
| 03:53 | <@Consul> | Maybe I can find some tall grass somewhere. |
| 03:54 | < Derakon> | FWIW here are the current terrain styles: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/models/block7.png http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/models/block8.png http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/models/block9.png |
| 03:54 | < Derakon> | I expect this to be greatly expanded in the final game, but for now I have other things to worry about. |
| 03:55 | <@Consul> | Well, it's a start. |
| 04:00 | <@Consul> | What about ambient sounds? Wind, water, etc? |
| 04:00 | <@Consul> | And what format would you like them in |
| 04:00 | <@Consul> | ? |
| 04:01 | < Derakon> | Format should be Ogg Vorbis, please. As for ambients, I've no idea. If you think they'd be handy, you can feel free to make them; might spur some creative type to create an environment to suit the sound. |
| 04:02 | <@Consul> | Okay, I'll record 24/44.1 and convert to Vorbis. |
| 04:02 | < Derakon> | What's the 24 refer to? |
| 04:02 | <@Consul> | Quality level? |
| 04:02 | <@Consul> | 24 bit |
| 04:02 | < Derakon> | Ah. |
| 04:02 | <@Consul> | It's my default for the raw recording. |
| 04:03 | < Derakon> | Um, whatever sounds good? Download size shouldn't be a huge issue, and we can always downsample if it is, right? |
| 04:03 | <@Consul> | No, it's called dithering when you go from 24 bit to 16 bit. :-P |
| 04:03 | < Derakon> | I don't notice sound distortion unless it gets really bad, so I'm not really the person to ask here. Use your best judgement. |
| 04:03 | <@Consul> | Downsampling is going from 96 khz to 44.1 khz sample rate. |
| 04:03 | < Derakon> | Ah, right. |
| 04:03 | <@Consul> | Resampling hurts sound a lot more than dithering does. |
| 04:04 | <@Consul> | And even then, most people, as you rightly say, don't notice. |
| 04:04 | <@Consul> | But what vorbis quality do you want? VBR 6? 8? CBR 128kbit? |
| 04:05 | <@Consul> | I'd say stick with CBR, at 192khz. Still compact, but none of the character of the sound should be affected. |
| 04:05 | <@Consul> | Err, 192kbit, sorry. |
| 04:05 | < Derakon> | Sure, sounds good. :) |
| 04:05 | <@Consul> | Actually, 128kbit with vorbis is better than with mp3. :-) |
| 04:05 | < Derakon> | MP3's a pretty old spec these days. |
| 04:06 | <@Consul> | Well, my default recording format is 24bit/44.1khz, so I'll just stick to it and convert as necessary. |
| 04:06 | <@Consul> | It all becomes 64-bit floats in the editing program anyway. |
| 04:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mmm, doubles. |
| 04:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Crunchy. |
| 04:13 | <@Consul> | Finally, I get to contribute to an open source project in a way that I know something about. |
| 04:13 | <@Consul> | (Read: In a way that's interesting to me.) |
| 04:15 | < Derakon> | Hee. :) |
| 04:17 | | * Derakon ponders setting up a dev blog for Jetblade. |
| 04:17 | < Derakon> | I mean, I have my gamedev filter on LJ, but that's more personal, not so much announcement/design/vision-based. |
| 04:20 | <@Consul> | May I make a suggestion for the sound effects engine? |
| 04:20 | < Derakon> | Shoot. |
| 04:21 | <@Consul> | Design a round-robin method of choosing between several files of the same sound. |
| 04:21 | <@Consul> | Here's the idea. |
| 04:21 | < Derakon> | Like, different variants of birdsong? |
| 04:21 | <@Consul> | There will be, say, four files of the same footfall. The same sound, but slightly different just because in the real world, no two footfalls are exactly alike. |
| 04:22 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 04:22 | <@Consul> | See what I'm getting at? |
| 04:22 | < Derakon> | Makes. |
| 04:22 | < Derakon> | Er. Makes sense. |
| 04:22 | <@Consul> | This is a famous problem for sampled drums. |
| 04:22 | <@Consul> | The same snare sample played back in a fast roll has this machine gun effect. |
| 04:22 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 04:23 | < Derakon> | Reminds me of a video I watched of someone killing a Devil May Cry boss with the pistols, sped up to something like 500% normal speed. |
| 04:23 | < Derakon> | The pistols sounded like SMGs. |
| 04:23 | <@Consul> | But if you round-robin between six or eight hits of the same snare, the machine gun goes away. |
| 04:23 | <@Consul> | So, I'll probably choose upwards of four samples of each kind of footfall and whatever other sounds I gather. |
| 04:24 | <@Consul> | And then you can round-robin between them as they get played. |
| 04:24 | < Derakon> | ...gotterdammerung. http://jetblade.blogspot.com/ |
| 04:24 | <@Consul> | It seems like a minor detail, but trust me, it'll make a huge difference. |
| 04:24 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 04:24 | < Derakon> | Thanks for the suggestion. |
| 04:24 | < Derakon> | Guess I'll have to use jetblade-project.blogspot.com instead... |
| 04:25 | <@Consul> | Of course, you also have to keep in mind how hard it might be to implement. |
| 04:25 | < Derakon> | Shouldn't be too hard. |
| 04:25 | <@Consul> | We'll decide on some standard naming scheme for the samples at some point. |
| 04:26 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 04:26 | <@Consul> | Here I am saying "we" as if I have some say in the project now. :-/ |
| 04:26 | < Derakon> | Well, they'll be split up into subdirectories, so it'll be something like data/sound/terrain/footfalls/grass or something. |
| 04:26 | < Derakon> | You certainly do! |
| 04:26 | <@Consul> | Well, let's see if I can deliver, first. ;-) |
| 04:26 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 04:27 | <@Consul> | And with that, I'll BRB... |
| 04:36 | <@Consul> | Man, how will I cope with this much backscroll?! |
| 04:40 | < Derakon> | Okay, the Jetblade project blog is up! http://jetbladeproject.blogspot.com/ |
| 04:50 | <@Consul> | In the feed reader. :-) |
| 04:50 | < Derakon> | :) |
| 05:00 | <@Consul> | Have you selected a sound engine? |
| 05:00 | < Derakon> | At the moment I'm using PyGame, but that's easily-enough changed to anything that has the proper Python hooks. |
| 05:00 | < Derakon> | SDL's audio is full of spiders, so as soon as complicated requirements show up it'll probably get switched over to some OpenAL thing. |
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| 05:02 | <@Consul> | I'm kinda thinking about the music side of things now. |
| 05:02 | < Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 05:02 | < Derakon> | I do know that smoothly-looping sound in PyGame is nontrivial. |
| 05:03 | <@Consul> | Oh, I'm way beyond looping. :-P |
| 05:03 | <@Consul> | I'm thinking about generative scores. |
| 05:03 | < Derakon> | O_o |
| 05:03 | < Derakon> | Procedurally-generated music? |
| 05:04 | <@Consul> | Spore used Puredata (which has Python hooks) for theirs. |
| 05:04 | < Derakon> | I think if we go down that road, we also have to have procedurally-generated creatures, and then it's Spore all over again. |
| 05:04 | <@Consul> | No, no need to go that far. |
| 05:05 | < Derakon> | I was hyperbolating. |
| 05:05 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 05:05 | < Derakon> | And if "hyperbolate" isn't a verb, well, it is now. |
| 05:05 | <@Consul> | The thing is, procedural music was much more the norm in the old days. |
| 05:06 | <@Consul> | Like the way the music in Space Invaders got faster as more aliens were blasted. |
| 05:06 | < Derakon> | Isn't that more reactive music? I think of "procedural music" as meaning that the tunes are made up by the computer. |
| 05:07 | <@Consul> | Well, the lines between the two are blurred. |
| 05:07 | < Derakon> | Altering pitch or tempo, or adding/removing tracks, to a human-written piece is different. |
| 05:07 | < Derakon> | In any event, in my personal heaven Jetblade's music would be written by the guy that composed Aquaria's soundtrack. |
| 05:08 | <@Consul> | I can't really help you there. |
| 05:08 | < Derakon> | Or, y'know, by one of the Super Metroid and/or Metroid Prime musicians. I'm not picky. :) |
| 05:08 | <@Consul> | You might be stuck with me. :-P |
| 05:08 | < Derakon> | Hee. |
| 05:08 | <@Consul> | And my prog rock stylings. |
| 05:09 | < Derakon> | I'm hoping that as the project becomes more and more of a game, more people will be interested in helping out. Not to denigrate your own skills, of course. |
| 05:09 | <@Consul> | Oh, to be honest, I'd be more than happy to let someone else have at the music. I really just want to do sound effects, design, and foley. |
| 05:09 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 05:10 | <@Consul> | It's easy to find people who can do adequate music. |
| 05:11 | <@Consul> | Someone with the gear and drive to do lots of field recording for foley and sound design, they're a little harder to come by for free. :-) |
| 05:12 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 05:13 | <@Consul> | You'll notice I never said "skill", though. |
| 05:13 | <@Consul> | I'm confident I have enough skill to get started, but I'll be learning a lot as I go. |
| 05:13 | < Derakon> | That is absolutely fine. |
| 05:14 | < Derakon> | One of the reasons I open-sourced Jetblade was to give other people the opportunity to learn by working on a "real" project. |
| 05:14 | | * Derakon reads the Wikipedia article on foley artists. "Hunh, apparently the sound of galloping horses is made by banging coconut shells together. How about that." |
| 05:16 | <@Consul> | My foley studio will be highly improvised. :-) |
| 05:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Does anyone here grok CPAN? |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jul 19 05:49:56 2009 |
| --- Log opened Sun Jul 19 05:50:01 2009 |
| 05:50 | | TheWatcher[zZzZ] [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 05:50 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 24 nicks [13 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal] |
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| 05:50 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 51 secs |
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| 06:02 | <@Derakon> | Heyo, Rhamphoryncus: http://jetbladeproject.blogspot.com/ |
| 06:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | looking nifty |
| 06:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | gah, another brownout |
| 06:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | bad brownout, bad! |
| 06:06 | <@Derakon> | You have a UPS? |
| 06:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | no |
| 06:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | just wasn't enough to shut off the computer |
| 06:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | speaker's more sensitive |
| 06:06 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
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| 06:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Computer stayed up. Router did not |
| 06:13 | <@Derakon> | Whups. |
| 06:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Firefox seems stuck in offline mode |
| 06:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | interesting that gmail partially works |
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| 06:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | restarted firefox.. came back with no saved windows.. restarted again.. came back with all my windows o.O |
| 06:46 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 06:46 | <@Derakon> | I'm heading to bed. G'night. |
| 06:47 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:52 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Nihjy |
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| 15:49 | < MIMO> | hey |
| 15:49 | < MIMO> | kiss emkon 7ada ye7ke |
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| 16:35 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Damn, Troika and Deep seem to be hating each other |
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| 18:17 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 18:17 | <@TheWatcher> | I think I have an unhealthy obsession with attempting to represent system designs diagramatically |
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| 19:10 | | * jerith takes TheWatcher's UML stencils away from him. >.> |
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| 19:23 | <@TheWatcher> | jerith: not uml (uml does my nut in), basically block diagrams that let me visualise how everything fits together |
| 19:27 | <@TheWatcher> | (probably Terribly Bad Practice, but sod it) |
| 19:28 | < jerith> | TheWatcher: Informal UML, then. |
| 19:28 | < jerith> | And it's very useful as long as you don't try to get too detailed. |
| 19:28 | < jerith> | Also, UML Activity Diagrams are fantastic. |
| 19:29 | < jerith> | They're basically sequences of messages between components. |
| 19:53 | <@Doctor_Nick> | im high |
| 19:53 | <@Doctor_Nick> | hell yeah im an op |
| 19:53 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 19:53 | | mode/#code [-o Doctor_Nick] by Derakon |
| 19:53 | <@Derakon> | :p |
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| 19:54 | <@Doctor_Nick> | :O |
| 19:55 | | * jerith grins. |
| 19:56 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 26 nicks [15 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal] |
| 19:56 | | * TheWatcher eyes you all |
| 19:56 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by jerith |
| 19:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Now you're just showing off ;P |
| 19:57 | | mode/#code [-o Consul] by ChanServ |
| 19:57 | < Consul> | We should send a page or two of us just opping and deopping ourselves in to bash.org. :-P |
| 19:58 | <@jerith> | Guilty as charged. |
| 19:59 | <@jerith> | I'm surprised PinkFreud hasn't beat me about the head and shoulders with a bushel of punchcard for abusing my magic powers. |
| 20:00 | <@Derakon> | Ehh, practically everyone gets ops here anyway. |
| 20:00 | <@AnnoDomini> | The mods at bash.org are stuck up. Or otherwise don't find what I find funny funny. |
| 20:06 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@ServicesAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 20:07 | | * TheWatcher eyes the fact that SDL_image doesn't actually have IMG_Save???_RW functions, bleghs vaguely |
| 20:16 | | Syloqs_AFH [~Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 20:17 | | Syloqs_AFH [~Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 20:25 | | * TheWatcher eyes libpng and libjpeg, shrugs, sets about bending them to his will |
| 20:25 | <@McMartin> | That plus SDL_ImageFormat and SDL_Image::data will probably see you through. |
| 20:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Yup. |
| 20:26 | <@McMartin> | Don't forget to lock the image before conversion. |
| 20:26 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 20:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Kinda surprised that SDL_image is missing that sort of functionality, really |
| 20:27 | <@McMartin> | Likewise, though I suppose the "interesting" part was getting the rest of SDL's internals consistent. |
| 20:27 | <@Doctor_Nick> | im still high |
| 20:27 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 20:28 | | * TheWatcher drops Doctor_Nick in a vat of Li2CO3 |
| 20:30 | <@Doctor_Nick> | >:O |
| 21:03 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-7615.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: updating IRC client] |
| 21:15 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-7615.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 21:15 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by ChanServ |
| 21:26 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.1.54.ns-25924] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
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| 21:27 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 21:49 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.1.54.ns-25924] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
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| 21:51 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
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| 21:58 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 22:55 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7168.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 23:01 | | Reiv [~82d94c4d@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #Code |
| 23:13 | | Consul [~Consul__@Nightstar-3348.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 23:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:48 | < Reiv> | Anyone dealt with WEKA prior? |
| 23:49 | < Reiv> | (Rather popular data mining/machine learning interface, apparently.) |
| 23:57 | <@Derakon> | Never heard of it. |
| --- Log closed Mon Jul 20 00:00:08 2009 |