| --- Log opened Sat Jun 13 00:00:16 2009 |
| 00:04 | <@Vornicus> | gnolam: join the club. |
| 00:04 | | * Vornicus loses those all the time. |
| 00:05 | < Alek> | gnolam: if that's headset plug, I HAVE two. but need replacements. |
| 00:05 | < Alek> | one regular, short, for connection to walkman/etc |
| 00:06 | < Alek> | one long, with volume control and one of those ground boxes, for connecting to stereo/tv/computer |
| 00:07 | < Alek> | I kept looking for them in radio shack and stuff, couldn't find any. only from Cochlear, for $30 for the short, $60 for the long. -_- |
| 00:12 | | * Derakon eyes his code, which appears to be saying that there's a collision overlap of 13 units when there should be an overlap of only 1 or 2. |
| 00:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Just a tiny error, that |
| 00:21 | <@Derakon> | Oh, wait, was looking at the wrong numbers. 13 is right after all, which is a big relief. |
| 00:28 | <@Derakon> | So now I just have to figure out why the ground's being soft. |
| 00:34 | <@TheWatcher> | I suggest less watering, or keeping it away from the soppy poetry. |
| 00:35 | <@TheWatcher> | (in lieu of anything useful, that is) |
| 00:38 | <@Derakon> | Ah hah! |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | The problem was updating my animations before running collision detection, which meant that the points the sprites were using for interpolation when drawing between physics updates were inaccurate. |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | (Because the notional location of the object being drawn was embedded in the ground, even if the logical location of the object was later corrected) |
| 00:43 | <@Derakon> | Hmm...actually, this will be a more general problem. |
| 00:43 | <@Derakon> | Since any changes to the object's location need to be done before calling sprite.update(). |
| 00:44 | <@Derakon> | So those changes can't be done in the base class's update. |
| 00:44 | <@Derakon> | But that's annoying; it's mindless extra work for every subclass to invoke. |
| 01:02 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28868.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: later. rerouting network cable.] |
| 01:15 | | * Derakon misspells "coordinates" as "coordianets". O_o |
| 01:16 | <@McMartin> | y so coordinaet |
| 01:17 | <@Derakon> | Hokay, first pass at TerrestrialObject is functional. |
| 01:18 | <@Derakon> | I need to add the concept of facings back in -- right now it's using velocity to determine facing, which only works most of the time -- but I'm getting closer to what I need. |
| 01:19 | <@Derakon> | Once that's done, I can hook the player back in to give myself some control, then work on adding crawling and hanging back in. |
| 02:12 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29064.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: It is estimated that approximately one percent of the general population are psychopaths. They are overrepresented in prison systems, politics, law enforcement agencies, law firms, and in the media.] |
| 02:26 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 02:46 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 02:53 | < SmithKurosaki> | goosd luck Derakon[AFK] |
| 02:57 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28868.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 03:43 | | GeekSoldier_ is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 04:15 | < Alek> | hm. |
| 04:15 | < SmithKurosaki> | do tell |
| 04:16 | < Alek> | just, I don't know about a half-dozen of you. |
| 04:17 | <@Vornicus> | Poor you. |
| 04:17 | | mode/#code [+ooooo Alek ASCII crem EvilDarkLord GeekSoldier] by Vornicus |
| 04:17 | | mode/#code [+oooooo jerith MyCatVerbs Namegduf Reiver Rhamphoryncus SmithKurosaki] by Vornicus |
| 04:17 | <@Vornicus> | ./mode +oov Syloqs-AFH Tarinaky DiceBot |
| 04:17 | <@SmithKurosaki> | w00t |
| 04:18 | | mode/#code [+oov Syloqs-AFH Tarinaky DiceBot] by Vornicus |
| 04:19 | <@SmithKurosaki> | vorn, you are my hero atm |
| 04:39 | | * SmithKurosaki hugs Vornicus |
| 04:39 | <@Vornicus> | uh |
| 04:39 | | * SmithKurosaki is girl |
| 04:39 | <@SmithKurosaki> | its cool |
| 04:39 | <@Alek> | lol |
| 04:40 | <@Vornicus> | pfff |
| 04:40 | <@SmithKurosaki> | what? ask tf |
| 04:40 | | * Vornicus was more wondering why opping everybody counts as heroism in an explicitly almost-all-ops channel. |
| 04:41 | <@SmithKurosaki> | im not an op anywhere except for the one channel i have for school that isnt being used |
| 04:42 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (and i own that one) |
| 04:42 | | * Vornicus gives SmithKurosaki |
| 04:42 | <@Vornicus> | a cheese. |
| 04:43 | | * SmithKurosaki passes the cheese to tf. He will enjoy it a lot more than me |
| 04:44 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Also, I am so happy my hilight script works |
| 04:52 | <@Vornicus> | fuuuuuck get VornInSpace out of my heeaaaaaaad |
| 04:52 | | * Vornicus is trying to work on VornBall, dammit! |
| 04:53 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Sorry, I do not know how to extract things from peoples' heads' yet, I need to go to Mad Doctor School first |
| 04:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: write down design document to get it out of your head, go back to vornball? |
| 04:57 | | * Vornicus really isn't sure how that's supposed to /work/, but okay. |
| 04:58 | <@SmithKurosaki> | You write it down so that you don't forget, so then it will go out of your head for a while again. |
| 05:12 | <@Alek> | so who are you? |
| 05:12 | <@SmithKurosaki> | me? |
| 05:12 | <@SmithKurosaki> | half business person / half coding newbiw |
| 05:14 | <@Consul> | And all woman. :-P |
| 05:14 | <@SmithKurosaki> | :D |
| 05:15 | | * Consul grins, ducks, and runs. |
| 05:15 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ^5 its cool Consul |
| 05:15 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 05:15 | <@Consul> | I had hoped you'd think it was funny. |
| 05:15 | <@SmithKurosaki> | It was cute |
| 05:16 | <@SmithKurosaki> | So, I just did the username thing on facebook :) |
| 05:18 | <@Consul> | Oh, I guess I should, too. |
| 05:20 | <@Consul> | Damn, I should've been earlier so I could've gotten darren. Oh well. |
| 05:21 | <@SmithKurosaki> | *shrug* i used my internet name, so i made sure i got mine. not in the mood to semi-compete with 6 other girls with the exact same name as me |
| 05:21 | <@Consul> | I'm dmlandrum now. |
| 05:22 | <@Consul> | Which is the username I've been using pretty much everywhere these days. |
| 05:22 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 05:22 | | * SmithKurosaki adds you |
| 05:31 | <@Consul> | Confirmed. |
| 05:32 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 05:32 | <@Consul> | Guelph isn't *that* far up the road from me. |
| 05:33 | | * Consul is in Port Huron, MI |
| 05:33 | <@SmithKurosaki> | cool |
| 05:33 | <@SmithKurosaki> | i used to swim in huron all the tiem |
| 05:34 | <@Consul> | I'm not much for swimming, myself. |
| 05:34 | <@Consul> | In fact, I'm not athletic at all. |
| 05:34 | | * Vornicus has Billie Jean stuck in his head. |
| 05:34 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 05:34 | <@Consul> | And now, so do I. Thanks, you jerk. |
| 05:34 | <@Consul> | :-P |
| 05:34 | <@SmithKurosaki> | DAMNIT |
| 05:34 | <@SmithKurosaki> | hey vorn, you have fc? |
| 05:35 | <@SmithKurosaki> | *fb? |
| 05:36 | <@Vornicus> | No. |
| 05:36 | <@Vornicus> | Nor do I plan to get one. |
| 05:36 | <@Consul> | I resisted it for a very long time. |
| 05:36 | <@Consul> | It's still not the main place I go. |
| 05:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | so did i, and the only reason i got one was for one of my bfs... that didnt last very long |
| 05:37 | <@Consul> | Sounds like an interesting story. :-) |
| 05:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | meh |
| 05:45 | <@Consul> | I guess that says it all. :-) |
| 05:46 | <@Namegduf> | I have one, I don't use it aside as a means of contact/association with people I know, and I guess for the interesting social stuff of seeing mutual contacts and friends of friends. |
| 05:46 | | * Namegduf isn't a "provide people with a running commentary of my life" person. |
| 05:46 | <@Namegduf> | Well, sometimes I am, but I use random IRC channels for that. |
| 05:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | yea |
| 05:47 | <@McMartin> | This also happens to be the one thing Twitter is good for. |
| 05:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | i dont really use it as much anymore, but there are people i want to get to know a bit more outside of irc |
| 05:47 | <@Namegduf> | The running commentary thing? |
| 05:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | yea |
| 05:47 | <@Consul> | I use Twitter a lot, I'm afraid to say. |
| 05:47 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 05:47 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah, it's something I've no interest in. |
| 05:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | twitter is something i will never touch |
| 05:48 | <@Consul> | One of my friends online has actually stopped talking to me because I told her I use Twitter. |
| 05:48 | <@McMartin> | Well, actually, I take it back |
| 05:48 | <@Consul> | Seemed a bit harsh, I think. |
| 05:48 | <@McMartin> | There's one other thing Twitter is good for, and which is actually its one true purpose |
| 05:48 | <@McMartin> | And that is chronicling the journeys of OTHAR TRYGGVASSEN, gentleman adventurer |
| 05:48 | <@Namegduf> | Twitter is good at it, it's just running commentaries have limited uses. |
| 05:48 | <@Consul> | Heg |
| 05:48 | <@Consul> | Err, Heh |
| 05:48 | <@Namegduf> | I mean, for up to the minute reports of something, I'd follow Twitter. |
| 05:48 | <@Namegduf> | For hearing about someone's life, I'd... not. |
| 05:49 | <@Consul> | I've found it's great for conversing with people I meet online. |
| 05:49 | <@Consul> | It's less obtrusive than most other methods.] |
| 05:49 | <@McMartin> | Brass Lantern and Telltale Games both have useful news feeds |
| 05:49 | <@SmithKurosaki> | hahahahahah |
| 05:49 | <@Namegduf> | I mean, I enjoy talking with people about stuff, but the broadcast thing... I've better things to do. |
| 05:49 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ^5 McMartin |
| 05:49 | <@Namegduf> | I prefer Skype, MSN, even AIM I guess. |
| 05:49 | <@Namegduf> | Although of those, only Skype is logged in right now. |
| 05:49 | <@Consul> | In England, a solo bass player named Steve Lawson booked an entire US house concert tour through Twitter that turned out profitable. |
| 05:50 | <@McMartin> | SK: Which of those was that for? |
| 05:50 | <@SmithKurosaki> | othar |
| 05:50 | <@Namegduf> | Actually, I tell a lie, I prefer IRC first, but I don't ask people to use that. |
| 05:50 | <@Namegduf> | I'm irritable about people who contact me on MSN or similar when they know me on IRC, though. |
| 05:50 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, I'm quite familiar with using multiple online identities to semi-segregate my contacts |
| 05:50 | <@Consul> | Therefore, I maintain that Twitter is in fact a useful web site. :-) |
| 05:51 | <@Namegduf> | "I have ten other conversations open, and fifty eight channels. These can be switched between instantly and I am aware of activity in any within seconds. You require a separate window, notifications, and switching focus between programs." |
| 05:51 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Namegduf: yea, i have msn and i have irc, i talk to people on irc a lot more than msn these days. i keep msn around for people who dont know the awesome of irc / have windows |
| 05:51 | <@Consul> | I've managed to avoid MSN completely. |
| 05:51 | <@Namegduf> | I actually think I dropped out of a D&D group because I was less than responsive on MSN and never bothered to fix it from logging itself out. |
| 05:52 | <@Namegduf> | The person knows me on IRC, you see, but for some reason didn't contact me though it. |
| 05:52 | <@Namegduf> | ...hell, I spoke to them on IRC first. |
| 05:52 | <@SmithKurosaki> | wow |
| 05:52 | <@Namegduf> | Well, dropped out before it started, that is. |
| 05:53 | <@Namegduf> | I'm still using a rediculously slow computer. MSN annoys me, a lot; irssi-over-SSH is more responsive than any local program by a huge margin. |
| 05:54 | <@Namegduf> | MSN requires that I babysit the crappy program so it doesn't log itself out at random, or spend a good hour or so installing Pidgin (yes, this thing is that slow), and then has a separate notifications system which makes everything pause momentarily to deliver its updates. |
| 05:55 | <@Namegduf> | Then when switching between it and IRC I need to Alt+Tab or similar, which has a 2-3 second delay, as opposed to IRC PM windows, which respond near-instantly. |
| 05:55 | <@SmithKurosaki> | i use my linux partition on my dtop as a server, im constantly displaying my suspendable x session that runs on my server, on my server, so i would much rather like to keep all of my conversations in one program if i can, but i am not going to force people over to the dark side |
| 05:55 | <@Namegduf> | I don't, either, which is why I have Skype/MSN/AIM |
| 05:56 | <@Consul> | Bunch of geeks, the lot of you. |
| 05:56 | <@Namegduf> | I installed AIM for one specific person, even. |
| 05:56 | <@Consul> | :-P |
| 05:56 | | * McMartin uses irssi inside a screen session. |
| 05:56 | <@Consul> | I'm using xchat on Windows. |
| 05:56 | <@Namegduf> | McMartin: I do, too. |
| 05:56 | <@Namegduf> | I only started using screen after PuTTY started randomly breaking. |
| 05:56 | <@SmithKurosaki> | i would love to run skype, but linux + wine doesnt like it, and theres no f9 skype installer |
| 05:56 | <@Consul> | Those familiar with my recent experiences on Linux will understand why. |
| 05:56 | <@Namegduf> | There's a Linux version of Skype. |
| 05:56 | <@McMartin> | Hm. SK, have you messed around any with F11? |
| 05:56 | <@Namegduf> | Why would you need an installer? |
| 05:57 | <@Namegduf> | You can just get the generic version. |
| 05:57 | <@SmithKurosaki> | also, i dont have aim, and pidgin has the shittiest connection ive seen in a good long time lately. and no, im waiting until f11 stable is out |
| 05:57 | <@Namegduf> | I mean... there sure as hell wasn't an installer for GoboLinux. :P |
| 05:57 | <@SmithKurosaki> | the .rpm for fedora is only for 7 and 8 i think |
| 05:57 | <@Namegduf> | You can use the non-rpm. |
| 05:58 | <@Namegduf> | The tarball containing a simple, stupid precompiled copy. |
| 05:58 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (i also lack the mic)' |
| 05:58 | <@McMartin> | I suspect the actual answer is "doesn't play nice with F9's other grounding libraries." |
| 05:58 | | * SmithKurosaki shrugs |
| 05:58 | <@Namegduf> | Hmm, maybe, but if you can't satisify the prerequisites, I'd call that an F9 bug. |
| 05:58 | <@Namegduf> | Then again, maybe I'm used to the small distro "Our job to support stuff." attitude. |
| 05:59 | <@SmithKurosaki> | well, if i had a mic, i would actually try harder to get it to work, but im terribly torn that it doesnt |
| 05:59 | <@McMartin> | Fedora's schtick is a smaller library with *much* better support and upgrade survivability. |
| 05:59 | <@Namegduf> | A smaller library? |
| 05:59 | <@McMartin> | Compared to, say, Debian. |
| 06:00 | <@Namegduf> | You mean application library? |
| 06:00 | <@McMartin> | Yes. |
| 06:00 | <@Namegduf> | Ah, yeah. |
| 06:00 | <@McMartin> | The upside is that if you're looking for something and it's in their repos, there's one version of it and it works. |
| 06:00 | <@Namegduf> | You still should be able to install older/newer versions of libraries. |
| 06:00 | | * SmithKurosaki shrugs |
| 06:00 | <@Namegduf> | The whole .major.minor.so thing exists for a reason; that's it. |
| 06:00 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 06:00 | <@McMartin> | That doesn't mean that it actually works, though. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | It's gotten better since the pre-Fedora days, though. |
| 06:01 | <@Namegduf> | Works really well on Gobo. |
| 06:01 | <@Namegduf> | I guess Red Hat's approach less so. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | Well. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | In the 90s, libc itself tended to change incompatibly every few months. |
| 06:01 | <@Namegduf> | Ew. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | That was the last time I used Linux without a predesigned package manager. |
| 06:02 | <@Namegduf> | Skype is mostly favoured by me because it actually has a decently working client which connects and stays connected, the interface is fairly light... |
| 06:02 | <@Namegduf> | And I have it on my phone, too. |
| 06:02 | <@Namegduf> | My mobile. |
| 06:02 | <@McMartin> | Nod |
| 06:02 | <@McMartin> | I've been known to occasionally use Vent, but that's about it |
| 06:02 | <@Namegduf> | And it works properly with connections from multiple locations at once. |
| 06:03 | <@Namegduf> | I barely use the voice functionality of Skype. |
| 06:03 | <@Namegduf> | I use it as an IM thing primarily. |
| 06:03 | <@McMartin> | Ah |
| 06:03 | <@Namegduf> | I can walk home using the IM stuff on it on my phone, then switch over to the better keyboard on a real computer without much by way of disruption. |
| 06:04 | <@Namegduf> | The last little thing I like about it is that it supports emotes (that is, /me) in the text messaging. |
| 06:04 | <@Namegduf> | The Mac version recently got "s/foo/bar/" regex correction support. |
| 06:04 | <@Namegduf> | It actually rewrites the previous message. Apparantly. |
| 06:04 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@ServicesAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:05 | | * Namegduf was talking to one of his Mac-using friends and used one in conversation, as he tends to. |
| 06:05 | <@Namegduf> | And then they found the announcement of its release. |
| 06:05 | <@Alek> | ol |
| 06:05 | <@Alek> | l |
| 06:06 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28868.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: bah to reboots] |
| 06:06 | <@Namegduf> | It's not as good as IRC, though, but that's only because stuff in irssi lets me multitask a lot easier. |
| 06:06 | <@Namegduf> | Can you imagine having 50 Skype/MSN/AIM IM windows open at once? |
| 06:10 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #Code |
| 06:10 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 06:11 | <@SmithKurosaki> | irssi? is it just a client? |
| 06:11 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 06:11 | <@SmithKurosaki> | interesting... |
| 06:12 | <@Namegduf> | CLI-based one, which means it doesn't get traditional UI elements like "channel bars" and "nick lists". |
| 06:12 | <@Namegduf> | Each window gets numbered, out of the box, Alt+1 to Alt+0 switch to 1 through 10, but I've expanded my hotkeys up to 1-100, although a few are broken over SSH. |
| 06:13 | <@Namegduf> | I also have a script for /<number> switching to a window. |
| 06:13 | <@SmithKurosaki> | nice |
| 06:13 | <@SmithKurosaki> | i should do that |
| 06:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I used irssi for a while, but between random lockups and the interface scaling poorly to the number of channels I was in and the fact that it wanted me to write plugins in Perl, I never looked back once I discovered NX. |
| 06:14 | <@Namegduf> | It's combined with a number bar, right above my entry bar. |
| 06:14 | <@Namegduf> | How many were you in? |
| 06:14 | | * Namegduf joins 58 on starting his client. |
| 06:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | At the time? 30-ish |
| 06:15 | | * Vornicus is in about 30 channels on 2 networks. |
| 06:16 | <@Namegduf> | It's combined with a number bar, right above my entry bar, which shows windows with new activity. PMs/channels with highlights are red and come first, then channel windows with real activity in white, then lots and lots of blue numbers for join/part activity. |
| 06:16 | <@Consul> | Hah! I'm the lightweight. 6 channels, 3 networks. |
| 06:16 | <@Namegduf> | I have... |
| 06:16 | <@Namegduf> | Ten networks. |
| 06:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | My overall experience was that the interface could scale well, but required you to do the bulk of the work. |
| 06:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | In perl. |
| 06:16 | <@Namegduf> | I didn't write any perl for it. |
| 06:16 | <@SmithKurosaki> | 4 nets; 12 chans, 2 pm |
| 06:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh yes, and the random corruption of the config file was the other reason I dropped it. |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | The /<number> thing was a basic oneliner I borrowed from someone. |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, not "random"; rather, any error in the config file would cause irssi to silently overwrite it with garbage on startup.) |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | The hotkeys to 100 are rebound stuff. |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | And I don't edit my config file by hand. |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | ...well, I have, actually, on rare occasion. |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | (this combined poorly with the documentation, or lack thereof, on the config file itself) |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | That sorta sucks, I wouldn't switch away for it, though. |
| 06:17 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-8573.midstate.ip.cablemo.net] has quit [Quit: Praise "BOB"!] |
| 06:17 | <@Namegduf> | I understand WeeChat has similar ideas but does it 'better'. |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, in my case, irssi was already second place to xchat; I was using it only beause it was screenable |
| 06:18 | <@Namegduf> | Having Alt+1 to 0 for 1-10, but also having Alt+J+<write a number> for higher channels. |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and, well usable at all over ssh) |
| 06:18 | <@Namegduf> | I don't know whether I'd prefer that layout more. |
| 06:18 | <@Namegduf> | But if it can have it bound the same way, and I suspect it can... |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | My experience with it convinced me that it was better than telnet, but nowhere close to replacing xchat for me |
| 06:18 | <@Namegduf> | It's also scriptable in more languages, although I've not... much against Perl. |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then once I found a way to have all the advantages of screen, but with xchat... |
| 06:19 | <@Namegduf> | It's a pretty damn weird language with altogether too many ways to say zero. |
| 06:19 | <@McMartin> | "0 but true" |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, I had no reason to keep trying to hammer irssi into shape. |
| 06:19 | <@SmithKurosaki> | lua! |
| 06:19 | <@Namegduf> | McMartin: I hate that. |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | I still don't know what was causing the lockups. |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | To this day I don't know if it was irssi itself, or irssi having some kind of bad interaction with screen that caused them both to die. |
| 06:20 | <@Namegduf> | Never seen that happen. |
| 06:20 | | * Vornicus occasionally thinks anything but True vs False should be a TypeError in conditions. |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | (re: scripting languages: xchat: C C++ perl python tcl lua scheme) |
| 06:21 | <@Namegduf> | I think this could be solved by letting strings and numbers be different things. |
| 06:21 | <@Namegduf> | And undef can just go die. |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although the current state of the art in lua plugins is kind of wtf and I should write my own someday) |
| 06:21 | <@Namegduf> | And zero but true can ESPECIALLY go die. |
| 06:21 | <@McMartin> | Vornicus: So, you're saying there should be a... "boolean" type. |
| 06:21 | <@Namegduf> | Go, stop trying to encode your error reports in your output, and send it through some other mechanism. |
| 06:22 | <@Namegduf> | Even exceptions are better than that. |
| 06:22 | <@Namegduf> | And I largely agree with the categorisation of exceptions as 'invisible goto'. |
| 06:22 | <@McMartin> | Exceptions are great, if your language is designed to actually *have* them. |
| 06:22 | <@McMartin> | (Hint: C++ isn't) |
| 06:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I think what he's saying is that, say, "if x" should be illegal if x is not of boolean type; instead write, say, "if x ~= nil" |
| 06:22 | <@Vornicus> | McM: Well, not only that, but that it should be the only way to do it. |
| 06:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, "if x ~= nil and x ~= false") |
| 06:22 | <@Namegduf> | Never done much architecture work involving them in C++, or any language. |
| 06:23 | <@McMartin> | TF: Yeah, which is to say, there's a boolean type and it's enforced. Python and Java both do that |
| 06:23 | <@Namegduf> | I don't have anything against C-style rules for that. |
| 06:23 | <@Namegduf> | I don't think it works at all well with strings, though. |
| 06:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do. |
| 06:23 | <@McMartin> | Namedguf: In OCaML, if you look at the generated assembler, a throw/catch exchange is two assembler instructions. |
| 06:23 | <@Vornicus> | Python does not enforce the boolean type: anything can be true or false. I occasionally find that it's unclear. |
| 06:24 | <@Consul> | I think it's bed time for me. Especially when the hardcore CS chat starts. |
| 06:24 | <@McMartin> | Oh. Ew. |
| 06:24 | <@McMartin> | I must have trained myself |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: s/python/lua/ => ditto for me. 'false' and 'nil' are boolean false, everything else (including 0, "", and {}) is boolean true, when considered by loops/branches. |
| 06:24 | <@Namegduf> | What I dislike about Perl is that 'zero but true' is actually a designed and intended way of doing things. |
| 06:24 | <@Namegduf> | Instead of being regarded as a hideous abuse |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is most of the time a convenient shortcut, but when it isn't it's kind of augh. |
| 06:25 | <@Namegduf> | That's even worse. |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | How so? |
| 06:25 | <@McMartin> | Because it means they thought it was a good idea. |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I am of the opinion that 0 should not be false |
| 06:25 | <@McMartin> | No, no. |
| 06:25 | <@McMartin> | 0 is false. |
| 06:25 | <@McMartin> | "0 but true" is true. |
| 06:25 | <@McMartin> | This is touted as a feature. |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I read "that's even worse" as being a reply to "nil is false, 0 "" {} are true" |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | "0 but true" is all kinds of wtf |
| 06:26 | <@Namegduf> | ...it actually expresses my opinion both ways. |
| 06:26 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-8573.midstate.ip.cablemo.net] has joined #code |
| 06:26 | | mode/#code [+o GeekSoldier] by ChanServ |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, it's only wtf to me because 0 is, in that language, false |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | That is to say, it's the inconsistency that bothers me, not the idea that 0 should be true. |
| 06:27 | <@Vornicus> | (in Python, zeroes, empty containers, None, and and False are considered to be false. Specifically it uses __nonzero__ and then if that's not implemented __len__ to determine truthiness.) |
| 06:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I am with Vorn that true should be true, false false, and everything else typeerror, but failing that I'm cool with false and undefined being false and everything else being true. |
| 06:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Among other things, it means that 'if x' is a handy shortcut for 'is x defined' |
| 06:28 | <@Namegduf> | I don't like 'undefined' as a value. |
| 06:28 | <@Vornicus> | (The arguments get weaker as you go from False to None to Empty to Zero.) |
| 06:28 | <@Vornicus> | (For things being considered false.) |
| 06:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: well, it's 'nil', which is the implicit value of any undefined variable, omitted argument, or valueless key |
| 06:29 | <@Namegduf> | I guess I'd be okay with a separation of 'false' and 'zero' |
| 06:29 | <@Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: That's an alias for 'undefined', right? |
| 06:29 | <@Namegduf> | Not a distinct thing? |
| 06:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ..yes, in the sense that there is no concept of "undefined" |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | The actual structure is that all variable access is a table lookup, and any table lookup returns the associated value if that key exists, and nil if it doesn't. |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, nil if it doesn't and there's no fallback method defined) |
| 06:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...so, yeah, actually, turning that over in my head, saying that nil == undefined is reasonable. |
| 06:31 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, but nil is the null reference, which is about as close to "undefined" as you can get. |
| 06:31 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 06:31 | <@Namegduf> | That sounds okay. |
| 06:31 | <@McMartin> | nil, null, and '() are all fundamentally the same concept. |
| 06:31 | <@Namegduf> | I don't like Perl's multitude of SEPARATE false values. |
| 06:31 | <@McMartin> | But the latter *only in LISPy lists* |
| 06:32 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ok, night guys, i have to get up at fuck you tomorrow to write a damn exam |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. {} is a fundamentally different thing (being a Map<any => any> with no keys) |
| 06:32 | <@Namegduf> | Then again, considering an absence of data true/false as false? |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | 'night, SK |
| 06:32 | <@Namegduf> | That's a bit odd too. |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: it does mean you can write things like: arg = arg or default_value |
| 06:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure that's a compelling reason for making it false rather than typeerror, but it's certainly handy. |
| 06:33 | <@Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 06:35 | <@Namegduf> | On an unrelated note, PuTTY is randomly deciding to ignore modifier keys, until I press right-alt. At which point it goes back to normal. |
| 06:35 | <@Namegduf> | How strange. |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | That sounds like DirectX getting in your way. Got any games open? |
| 06:37 | <@Namegduf> | Nope. |
| 06:37 | <@Vornicus> | right-alt is altgr. |
| 06:37 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 06:37 | <@Vornicus> | What's your keyboard setting. |
| 06:38 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28868.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 06:38 | <@Namegduf> | It's a British keyboard, if that's what you mean. |
| 06:42 | <@Vornicus> | I mean, what does Windows say your keyboard should be saying? |
| 06:46 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28868.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 06:47 | <@Namegduf> | I'm not sure what you mean, unfortunately. I'll probably be off this system... eventually... but it struck me as bizarre. |
| 06:48 | <@Vornicus> | Namegduf: is there a thing in the systray that's dark blue with white letters on it? |
| 06:48 | <@Namegduf> | Ah, the currently configured keymap? No, I have that off. |
| 06:49 | <@Namegduf> | Well, the quick change interface. |
| 06:49 | <@Namegduf> | It's set to match the keyboard. |
| 06:56 | <@Vornicus> | hmng |
| 07:01 | | * Vornicus shrugs. I got nothing. |
| 07:01 | <@Namegduf> | It's not the biggest of this system's issues.. just odd. |
| 07:51 | | * Vornicus finishes his first design document. Tries to decide if he's gone 'round the bend with the mining segment. |
| 08:01 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:22 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 08:38 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 09:13 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7168.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:20 | | * TheWatcher readsup, wonders if Namegduf is familiar with the 'nicklist' plugin for irssi. `/nicklist screen` will show a list of nicknames on the right, requires you to be running irssi in screen, though (which is sane anyway) |
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| 12:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 15:04 | | SmithKurosaki [~Smith@Nightstar-7213.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
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| 15:27 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 16:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 17:47 | < SmithKurosaki> | the ops are back to normal now? |
| 17:49 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Hrmn? |
| 17:49 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Something changed? |
| 17:59 | | mode/#code [+o SmithKurosaki] by ChanServ |
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| 18:30 | <@SmithKurosaki> | :o |
| 18:30 | | * SmithKurosaki dances |
| 18:30 | <@SmithKurosaki> | yea, nightstar dropped me while i was afk |
| 18:35 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has quit [Client exited] |
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| 18:48 | <@MyCatVerbs> | SmithKurosaki: prolly just that you weren't auth'd to nickserv? |
| 18:49 | <@TheWatcher> | She wasn't |
| 18:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Is now |
| 18:58 | <@SmithKurosaki> | yea, im not actually supposed to be an op |
| 18:58 | <@SmithKurosaki> | it was just amusing that vorn opped everyone yesterday |
| 18:59 | <@Consul> | I don't think it matters too much in this channel. |
| 18:59 | <@SmithKurosaki> | no, not really |
| 19:01 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I have THE POWER! |
| 19:02 | <@SmithKurosaki> | but so does most of the channel, so :) |
| 19:03 | <@Consul> | It's a metaphor for life, in a way. |
| 19:04 | <@Consul> | In the end, even if we had all the power we wanted, there's jack all we could do with it. :-P |
| 19:04 | <@SmithKurosaki> | interesting |
| 19:04 | <@Consul> | I just made that up to try to be amusing. |
| 19:04 | <@SmithKurosaki> | anyways, im back to being afk, im waiting for a phone call and the basement sucks at cell receptopm |
| 19:04 | <@SmithKurosaki> | it works :) |
| 19:05 | <@SmithKurosaki> | anyways, later |
| 19:05 | <@Consul> | See ya |
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| 20:09 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Oh hey there. ^^ |
| 20:09 | < seven> | Allo, actioncat. |
| 20:11 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Parameterised actioncat. :) |
| 20:11 | < seven> | *smirks* |
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| 21:28 | < Tarinaky> | Can anyone tell me why I'm having trouble with this shellscript? http://tarinaky.pastebin.com/m56fa206a |
| 21:31 | < Tarinaky> | The expected result is for it to do ./get_iplayer <long list of search terms> --nopurge --type radio,tv |
| 21:32 | < Tarinaky> | And when I type out the list by hand into the command it works. |
| 21:32 | < Tarinaky> | But when I use the script it matches -everything-. |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | You're going to get newlines in there, I expect that get_iplayer won't like that |
| 21:35 | < Tarinaky> | When I say I typed out the list by hand I mean I included newlines. |
| 21:36 | < Tarinaky> | I typed out "ashes to ashes"\[enter]"whatever was second in the list"\[enter]"third"... |
| 21:36 | < Tarinaky> | Plus I had the same problem without any newlines at all in the get-list.txt |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | huh |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | try |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | #!/bin/bash |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | cd /home/tarinaky/games/get_iplayer-1.83 |
| 21:38 | <@TheWatcher> | ARGS=`cat get-list.txt` |
| 21:38 | <@TheWatcher> | echo "args: $ARGS" |
| 21:38 | <@TheWatcher> | ./get_iplayer $ARGS --nopurge --type radio,tv |
| 21:39 | <@TheWatcher> | See if it's getting the stuff you expect in $ARGS? |
| 21:39 | < Tarinaky> | Yup. |
| 21:40 | < Tarinaky> | I'll try using a variable in the actual script. |
| 21:40 | <@TheWatcher> | xargs -a get-list.txt get_iplayer {} --nopurge --type radio,tv |
| 21:40 | <@TheWatcher> | That do anything? |
| 21:41 | < Tarinaky> | That worked. |
| 21:46 | < Tarinaky> | Thanks. |
| 22:33 | | * TheWatcher eyes the cancel button on the delete form |
| 22:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Temptation to just use onclick="history.back();" is high, but.. uuugh |
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| 23:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| --- Log closed Sun Jun 14 00:00:30 2009 |