| --- Log opened Thu Jun 11 00:00:47 2009 |
| 00:01 | | UndeadTroll [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29502.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Who, in the darkness of their own hearts, is truly innocent?] |
| 00:12 | | * Vornicus randomly considers a chart showing score differential with respect to time remaining among all hockey games, baselined using the final score. |
| 00:25 | <@Derakon> | Hm. After some thought about this, I'm going with a class, MotionRules. |
| 00:26 | <@Derakon> | This class stores a mapping of values to clamps on those values, as well as a set of potential overrides on those clamps. |
| 00:26 | <@Derakon> | So you could pass it your velocity and say "Don't let the X value exceed 20 in magnitude; don't let the Y value exceed 30 in magnitude", and then later say "Double the X clamp". |
| 00:27 | <@Derakon> | Hm...problem here is that if I want the MotionRules instance to be able to modify things that would be passed by value... |
| 00:27 | <@Derakon> | For example, gravity. |
| 00:28 | <@Derakon> | Hah. Simple solution: have the MotionRules instance store your velocity for you. |
| 00:39 | | * Derakon eyes what he's writing. |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | This is very complicated for something that will mostly be doing dict lookups. |
| 00:39 | < SK> | o.0 |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | However, it will make adding water physics, wind, etc. very easy. |
| 00:39 | < SK> | yay |
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| 00:54 | <@Derakon> | Okay. http://paste.ubuntu.com/193083/ |
| 00:55 | <@Derakon> | Now my main concern is that this will be too annoying to use, despite the added flexibility. |
| 00:55 | <@Derakon> | Since instead of doing, say, "self.vel[1] += gravity", you have to do "self.motionRules.addValueToValue('vy', 'gravity')" |
| 01:00 | < SK> | but, ypu have made things easier for later, which i always see as an improvement |
| 01:01 | <@Derakon> | It's a question of if the payoff is worth it. After all, using this has recurring costs. |
| 01:01 | <@Derakon> | (Especially since I'll need to be doing these lookups and iterations dozens of times per physics update) |
| 01:01 | < SK> | you worry about a performance hit from the constant definition lookups? |
| 01:02 | <@Derakon> | addToValue does a nontrivial amount of work. |
| 01:03 | < SK> | you said you are essentially writing a dictionary for your game code right? |
| 01:05 | <@Derakon> | For movement-related values, yes. |
| 01:06 | <@Vornicus> | THis smells wrong. |
| 01:08 | <@Derakon> | That's kinda how I feel, yeah. |
| 01:08 | < SK> | are they constant defintions, or actual variable? if they are constants, is there a way that you can cache the definitions for the next use somewhere? |
| 01:09 | < SK> | (i dont know what language you are writing in, i also probably don't know how the language you are writing in works) |
| 01:09 | <@Derakon> | I could cache the clamps like I'm caching the values, but honestly speed isn't my main concern right now. It's usability. |
| 01:09 | < SK> | ahh |
| 01:16 | <@Derakon> | I could just make all this stuff member variables for the object. self.vel, self.gravity, self.maxvel, etc., which get twiddled when you enter environments or get powerups. I don't really like the idea of special environments reaching into game objects to twiddle their member fields, though. |
| 01:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | SK: he's writing in Python, and for this sort of thing it's not different from Lua |
| 01:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 01:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not hugely different |
| 01:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | At least in concept |
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| 01:50 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh, are you at least having fun derakon? |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon> | Well, I'm dealing with interesting problems. |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon> | So whether or not I have fun, it'll improve my skills as a developer. Which is always good. |
| 01:55 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
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| 02:57 | < Namegduf> | echo foo |
| 02:58 | <@Derakon> | My echo foo is stronger than yours! |
| 02:58 | < SmithKurosaki> | Welcome to the echo foo bar |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | Sorry... script bugged out while testing, won't happen again. |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | :P |
| 03:00 | < SmithKurosaki> | its ok, we ran with it |
| 03:02 | < Namegduf> | Haha. |
| 03:02 | < Namegduf> | Yeah... a lot of the channels I'm in did. |
| 03:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | oh, what else did you get? |
| 03:03 | < Namegduf> | An "echo bar", and some people actually going "FOO... fooo... foo.." |
| 03:03 | < Namegduf> | A few of each. |
| 03:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | interesting |
| 03:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | no bazs? |
| 03:04 | <@Consul> | No, he's still paying off the debt from "Australia". :-P |
| 03:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | nice |
| 03:05 | <@Consul> | Best I could do on short notice, sorry. |
| 03:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | tis k |
| 03:05 | <@Consul> | At least you got the reference. :-) |
| 03:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | kind of, not really |
| 03:06 | <@Consul> | The movie "Australia" was made by Baz Lurman. |
| 03:06 | <@Consul> | Err, Luhrman |
| 03:06 | <@Consul> | And it... didn't really make its money back. |
| 03:07 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 03:54 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.kongregate.com/games/CasualCollective/the-space-game <--- Decent game. |
| 03:58 | <@Derakon> | Have you seen Achievement Unlocked, Vorn? |
| 04:01 | <@Vornicus> | I have heard of it. |
| 04:13 | | * Vornicus tries it. how silly. |
| 04:15 | < SmithKurosaki> | what is it? |
| 04:15 | < SmithKurosaki> | ive heard of it, but dont remember what it is |
| 04:15 | <@Derakon> | It's a Flash game. |
| 04:16 | <@Derakon> | http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked |
| 04:18 | <@Vornicus> | Get 100 very random achievements. |
| 04:20 | | * Vornicus got them all. Took reasonably long. |
| 04:26 | <@Vornicus> | But yeah, I quite like The Space Game. |
| 04:28 | < SmithKurosaki> | that is insane |
| 04:33 | | * Derakon plays a base defense game, dies on the last level, clicks "retry", is told he just won. |
| 04:34 | <@Derakon> | The game's more like Missile Command than Tower Defense, though, so I actually found it reasonably entertaining. http://armorgames.com/play/3917/vector-boom |
| 04:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vector Boom is awesome name for a band |
| 04:45 | < SmithKurosaki> | oh? |
| 04:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | What? It is. |
| 04:47 | <@McMartin> | So is "Refactor Tractor" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | Recapping 7 of 7 lines from alt/band-name: |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/001 mamster says, "Evolutionary Train Love" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/002 Fang says, "I imagine that as more of a bad japanese dating sim" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/003 mamster says, "The Fucking Robots" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/004 Fang says, "Robots, Unscrewed" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/005 inky says, "Priest To Priest" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/006 jess says, "Stir Fry Substance" |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | [band-name]/007 mamster says, "Six Porks Fancy" |
| 04:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | That reminds me |
| 04:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | I should see if I can stay connected to ifmud now |
| 04:57 | < SmithKurosaki> | i didnt know what was gouing on |
| 05:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | tf, how did that connection happen? |
| 05:10 | <@Vornicus> | Agh. Now I have The Space Game stuck in there with a bunch of other space strategy games trying to build together into one consistent whole. |
| 05:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | SK: McM was pasting stuff from ifmud, I believe. |
| 05:11 | < SmithKurosaki> | agg cool |
| 05:11 | < SmithKurosaki> | *ahh |
| 05:12 | < SmithKurosaki> | it works! :D |
| 05:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gnar |
| 05:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't remember my ifmud password |
| 05:13 | < SmithKurosaki> | 'The Space Game' |
| 05:13 | < SmithKurosaki> | ? |
| 05:14 | <@Vornicus> | Linked above. |
| 05:14 | < SmithKurosaki> | the vector boom game? |
| 05:14 | < SmithKurosaki> | its pretty awesome |
| 05:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html |
| 05:17 | <@Vornicus> | No, before that |
| 05:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | "1972 - Dennis Ritchie invents a powerful gun that shoots both forward and backward simultaneously. Not satisfied with the number of deaths and permanent maimings from that invention he invents C and Unix" |
| 05:18 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-4912.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 05:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | "1983 - Bjarne Stroustrup bolts everything he's ever heard of onto C to create C++. The resulting language is so complex that programs must be sent to the future to be compiled by the Skynet artificial intelligence. Build times suffer." |
| 05:19 | < SmithKurosaki> | this is aweome |
| 05:19 | < SmithKurosaki> | 1957 - John Backus and IBM create FORTRAN. There's nothing funny about IBM or FORTRAN. It is a syntax error to write FORTRAN while not wearing a blue tie. |
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| 05:21 | < SmithKurosaki> | 72 is also a good year. how did you find this tf? |
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| 07:21 | < SmithKurosaki> | tf, what happened to you? |
| 07:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Net dropped, took opportunity to put memory back into Orias. |
| 07:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mem: 3048336k total, 864984k used, 2183352k free, 26004k buffers |
| 07:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Swap: 0k total, 0k used, 0k free, 354000k cached |
| 07:22 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh rocking :) |
| 07:22 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 07:23 | <@Derakon> | Nice. |
| 07:24 | <@Derakon> | Always fun to just load the whole computer into RAM. |
| 07:24 | < SmithKurosaki> | neither me, nor tf would ever be able to handle only 3gb storage |
| 07:24 | < SmithKurosaki> | (now) |
| 07:25 | <@McMartin> | Man, I need to get back into my I7 WIP |
| 07:25 | < SmithKurosaki> | i7 wip? |
| 07:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Inform 7 work-in-progress |
| 07:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Inform 7 being a language for creating interactive fiction ("text adventures") |
| 07:25 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 07:26 | < SmithKurosaki> | something to make games for ifmud etc? |
| 07:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: in Orias's old body, there were a few occasions where I was able to keep using the system with / unmounted because everything important was in the block cache. |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | Well, most of my work has been 2-hour games on dares in ifMUD, yeah |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | I do have one full-length game |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | I'm working on another, maybe for the annual comp |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | Where I might be able to place a respectable 17th. |
| 07:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which one is FotH? |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | "Not finished" |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | But that might end up a comp game. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | That is, in fact, the WIP I need to get back to. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | WS is the full-length game. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | The games-on-dares were Faett Tiw and EXTERMINATE. |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | The others were more coding exercises. |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | What about *** Christmas Has Won *** |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | Coding exercise. |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | bah |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | I'd done some I6 before that, but it was all ports. |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | That was my first original I6 game. -_- |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | (Ia Zrblm) |
| 07:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | -zung- |
| 07:29 | < SmithKurosaki> | oh zrblm |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | Nothing heamy results from your zrblm. |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | ... |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | ... |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | ... OK, that's officially my Worst Idea Ever. |
| 07:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Dish! |
| 07:29 | | * McMartin clears his throat |
| 07:30 | <@McMartin> | "Games in human languages are for weaklings and communists: Let's Play The Gostak!" |
| 07:30 | | * SmithKurosaki *confusion* |
| 07:30 | <@Vornicus> | ...yes. |
| 07:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh god |
| 07:30 | <@Vornicus> | Yes, that is the worst idea ever. |
| 07:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you do that, you have to follow up with Lighan Ses Lion |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | That would make me 2 for 2 in my followups. |
| 07:31 | <@Derakon> | I don't know what it is, but it apparently comes with a translation dictionary. |
| 07:31 | < SmithKurosaki> | i get that... >.< |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | No, no it doesn't. |
| 07:31 | <@Derakon> | http://www.plover.net/~davidw/gostak.html |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | That's a walkthrough By That Walkthrough Guy. |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | I dispute many of his conclusions. |
| 07:31 | <@Derakon> | "My attempt to translate the unusual words from Carl Muckenhouptıs game The Gostak into English. Note that there is no ³correct translation²; everyone who plays the game will visualize and interpret things differently." |
| 07:31 | <@Derakon> | Fair enough. |
| 07:31 | < SmithKurosaki> | Derakon: you mean Lighan? |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | No, he means Gostak. |
| 07:31 | < SmithKurosaki> | kk |
| 07:31 | <@McMartin> | It's a game written in a conlang. |
| 07:32 | <@McMartin> | The "two for two in my followups" is because my other LP ended in a link to a different WalkthroughComp game. |
| 07:32 | <@McMartin> | That being Time Bastard, which always needs linkings. |
| 07:32 | <@McMartin> | And which had its inevitable effect. |
| 07:33 | <@Derakon> | Speaking of which, http://www.funkyhorror.net/toxicfrog/timebastard.txt |
| 07:33 | <@Derakon> | McM: which inevitable effect is that? Someone saying they want to make an actual IF out of it? |
| 07:33 | <@McMartin> | "I just thought I'd look at it, and then the next thing I knew it was over and four hours had passed." |
| 07:33 | < SmithKurosaki> | timebastard. squee! |
| 07:33 | <@Derakon> | Or just people wandering around saying zblrm and zung? |
| 07:33 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | Zrblm was actually a mudder's handle. |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | Short tossed it in to the WalkthroughComp on a lark. |
| 07:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...awesomeness. |
| 07:34 | < SmithKurosaki> | haha |
| 07:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now gtst is immortalized in the pages of the Necronomicon 2.0. |
| 07:35 | <@McMartin> | It made me feel kind of bad when I learned this after making Zrblm the villain in my first IF >_> |
| 07:35 | | * ToxicFrog blinks at ifmud |
| 07:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | > LOUNGE |
| 07:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can see: ... Star Trek episode titles as porn ... |
| 07:36 | < SmithKurosaki> | ummm... |
| 07:36 | <@McMartin> | Ah, yes. I've been afraid to check that one. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know no fear when it comes to > X |
| 07:36 | <@McMartin> | What about when it comes to > SIGN? |
| 07:36 | <@McMartin> | Then there's Guncho, which I've been meaning to mess with at some point. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's actually rather pedestrian. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | What does > SIGN do? |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | That's how you add things to that list. |
| 07:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 07:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Only if I think of something amusing, which I won't, because I don't know any ST episode titles. |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | There's generally two or three signables in the lounge at any given time. |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, this one was discussed before as a dud |
| 07:38 | <@McMartin> | Though we got a bit of TMI from some of them |
| 07:38 | <@Derakon> | Night all. |
| 07:38 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:39 | < SmithKurosaki> | night |
| 07:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wow, tinyfugue doesn't handle the charset sampler at all |
| 07:41 | <@McMartin> | Nope, not even if your terminal is badass. |
| 07:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | "Typing 'showdot' will display an incredible amount of text, so probably don't do that." |
| 07:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | ONWARDS |
| 07:41 | <@McMartin> | Uh |
| 07:41 | <@McMartin> | That may actually overload the connection |
| 07:41 | <@McMartin> | the MUD is served off some dude's DSL. |
| 07:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oops. |
| 07:41 | <@McMartin> | It's the whole database as a dot-parsable file |
| 07:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, I did it and the MUD's still running. |
| 07:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | A few people seem to have edges connecting them to "" |
| 07:42 | < SmithKurosaki> | ive got the tesla coil dr. who stuck in my head |
| 07:43 | <@McMartin> | Probably connected to people whose accounts have since been deleted |
| 07:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 07:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and yes, my terminal is badass) |
| 07:46 | < SmithKurosaki> | i wish mine was more bad ass :( |
| 07:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | What, yours doesn't do UTF-8? |
| 07:48 | < SmithKurosaki> | idk |
| 07:48 | <@McMartin> | Hm |
| 07:48 | | * McMartin also adds "write NSIS-on-Mac tutorial" to his list of Things Needing Done |
| 07:49 | | * McMartin also takes this opportunity to laugh once again at http://emshort.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/gothprincesses.jpg |
| 07:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | NSIS ;.; |
| 07:50 | < SmithKurosaki> | thats funny |
| 07:50 | <@McMartin> | NSIS still best of breed |
| 07:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, that's why I ;.; |
| 07:51 | <@McMartin> | LogicLib.h makes life less excruciating burning pain |
| 07:51 | <@McMartin> | Not that I needed anything more than a couple of !defines beyond the HM NIS Edit wizard for this. |
| 07:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | NSIS is an install framework written by people who think "combine the best features of assembler and PHP" is a desireable design goal and it's the best thing going. |
| 07:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | It makes me want to write my own, until I come back to my senses. |
| 07:52 | | * SmithKurosaki facepalms |
| 07:52 | <@McMartin> | To their credit, they no longer brag about this. |
| 07:52 | <@McMartin> | And LogicLib provides something very similar to actual block structure. |
| 07:53 | <@McMartin> | I've actually had to do some NSIS work as part of my job, and not only is it (with proper dev tools) best of breed of anything on Windows... |
| 07:53 | <@McMartin> | ... it beats anything on Mac, too. |
| 07:53 | <@McMartin> | It's best of breed period. |
| 07:54 | <@McMartin> | Though some of that is Steve's fault. |
| 07:54 | | * ToxicFrog sticks to tarballs |
| 07:54 | <@McMartin> | Stupid Steve. |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Steve? |
| 07:54 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, see, Steve's mistake was in thinking he could. |
| 07:54 | <@McMartin> | Notionally, Steve Jobs. |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 07:54 | < SmithKurosaki> | i was smelling a ref there :( |
| 07:54 | <@McMartin> | You were! |
| 07:55 | <@McMartin> | Andrew Plotkin did a Very Secret Diaries involving his earliest experiences with OS X 10.0 |
| 07:55 | <@McMartin> | In which he kept score with "Go Steve!" and "Stupid Steve." |
| 07:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aaah |
| 07:55 | < SmithKurosaki> | right! the cheerios commercial. but that was Shut up Steve, and omg commercials must burn |
| 07:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's the ref I was missing |
| 07:55 | < SmithKurosaki> | ;.; <- blood |
| 07:55 | <@McMartin> | In this particular case, his failure was to have an installation method that modifies a global registry |
| 07:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | haha |
| 07:56 | <@McMartin> | but to have no standard mechanism for cleaning these up. |
| 07:56 | <@McMartin> | Not to mention a general system mechanism that occasionally needs to put stuff into, oh, /Library/Application Support and /System/Library/Extensions, along with no way to clean those up, record that they were installed in the first place |
| 07:57 | | * SmithKurosaki facepalms |
| 07:57 | <@McMartin> | Thus, they manage to get all the disadvantages of the Windows system, without exploiting it to get its advantages. |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | Instead, it's all the advantages of tarballs that must be unzipped in /, but without the manifest. |
| 07:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maybe 11.x will have a package manager~ |
| 07:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | This reminds me, though, I need to look into how releasing Spellcast on OSX will work |
| 07:59 | <@McMartin> | Spellcast should be independent enough that you can make a relocatable app bundle |
| 07:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Part of it's just generating OSX binaries for portable libraries and fiddling LD_LIBRARY_PATH a bit more than I already am |
| 07:59 | <@McMartin> | WRONG |
| 07:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 07:59 | <@McMartin> | You must instead bash your head bloody against install_name_tool |
| 07:59 | <@McMartin> | LD_* env paths are ignored by dyld |
| 07:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | |
| 07:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, wait |
| 08:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | My program uses lib X |
| 08:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | libX.so must be installed systemwide? |
| 08:00 | <@McMartin> | No |
| 08:00 | <@McMartin> | Your program is in Blah.app/Contents/MacOS/Blah |
| 08:00 | <@McMartin> | It links libX.dylib |
| 08:00 | <@McMartin> | That lives in Blah.app/Contents/Frameworks/libX.dylib, generally |
| 08:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok |
| 08:01 | <@McMartin> | You use install_name_tool to modify Blah's Mach-O header so that loads from @executable-path/../Frameworks/libX.dylib. |
| 08:01 | <@McMartin> | Then you can copy the app bundle wherever and it does what it needs to. |
| 08:01 | <@McMartin> | (I may have gotten some keywords wrong here, whatever) |
| 08:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Does is significantly change things if it's library-to-library links? The actual situation is: lua interpreter loads program; program uses dynamic linker to explicitly load C libraries; those libraries have implicit dependencies on other DSOs. |
| 08:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | OSX, meet fire |
| 08:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also: ISTR somethig about screaming and fire and dead kittens WRT: GTK+ on OSX. Confirm/deny/noinfo? |
| 08:02 | <@McMartin> | implicit dependencies are hardcoded as absolute or relative paths via ld or the install_name_tool; explicit loading is handled as per usual, I think. |
| 08:03 | <@McMartin> | GTK+ requires X11.app, which I am reliably informed skullfucks kittens weekly |
| 08:03 | <@McMartin> | This may have changed. |
| 08:03 | <@McMartin> | Especially since I know it used to be true for Qt but no longer is. |
| 08:04 | <@McMartin> | (Oh, also, LD_* envvars are in part ignored because ld isn't the loader; dyld is and there are a completely different set of DYLD_* env vars that control *its* behavior. There is not a bijection between them.) |
| 08:05 | | SmithKurosaki [~Smith@Nightstar-7213.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: I'm out, there's something else to do] |
| 08:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Looks like there is a gtk-osx Framework for having nicely integrated GTK apps. |
| 08:05 | | SmithKurosaki [~Smith@Nightstar-7213.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 08:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can however confirm the kitten-skullfuckingness of X11.app. |
| 08:06 | <@McMartin> | I haven't tried gtk-osx.Framework. |
| 08:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | And that Cygwin Does It Much Better. |
| 08:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | gnar, nx/keyboard fail |
| 08:06 | <@McMartin> | But that it exists is heartening. |
| 08:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (one course for each of the past two semesters has used the Mac lab. It was...not a pleasant experience. Especially since I rely heavily on the ability to use anything with a net connection as an X terminal.) |
| 08:07 | | * SmithKurosaki dances |
| 08:08 | < SmithKurosaki> | i dont have multiple hilights tabs open! |
| 08:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Success! |
| 08:08 | | * ToxicFrog highfives |
| 08:08 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 08:19 | <@Vornicus> | GET THIS GAME IDEA OUT OF MY HEAD |
| 08:19 | | * Vornicus is already working on one! Out out out! Come back, one year! |
| 08:20 | < SmithKurosaki> | Vornicus: which game idea? |
| 08:21 | < SmithKurosaki> | night all |
| 08:22 | <@Vornicus> | Take Escape Velocity and Transcendence, two space games. Take the exploration breadth of EV, and the equipment and commodities breadth of Transcendence. Add in more robust mining etc stuff. |
| 08:29 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29502.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:29 | | mode/#code [+o UndeadAnno] by ChanServ |
| 08:56 | < jerith> | Vornicus: Write a spec on a wiki. |
| 08:57 | <@Vornicus> | If I do that, then I'll concentrate on /that/ instead of Vornball. I have Vornball to write! |
| 09:32 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 09:32 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 09:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:54 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 10:36 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
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| 11:42 | | * gnolam blarghs at makefiles. |
| 16:03 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 16:09 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 16:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Holy shit |
| 16:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm still connected to ifmud |
| 16:37 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
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| 16:37 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 16:42 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 16:42 | < SmithKurosaki> | i only dc'd once last night |
| 17:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | correction: i didn dc last night :D |
| 17:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | SK: well, on my old connection, I _could not_ stay connected to ifmud |
| 17:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | It would invariably drop after ~30min of inactivity. |
| 17:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh, last night i had like 7-10 dc |
| 17:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | *night before \ |
| 17:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | i am also quite happy because i can run 6 torrents at a time :) |
| 17:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | i just wonder if there is anything else i need to do to my alternet script... hmm |
| 17:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Split the exceptions into a seperate table so that they're easier to configure? |
| 17:12 | < SmithKurosaki> | yea, i was wondering how to make them easy to configure |
| 17:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | At the start of the file: exceptions = { "#foo", "#bar", "#baz" } |
| 17:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then iterate over exceptions (for _,ex in ipairs(exceptions)) to check them all in the event handler. |
| 17:15 | < SmithKurosaki> | cool |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Seperate lines for second-person actions means twice as many strings. |
| 17:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | ok |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, it also makes it more readable: |
| 17:56 | <@Derakon> | Whee internationalization. |
| 17:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | o.0 |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | '$capfirst:$who $verb:say,says, "$text"' -- current |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | '$who says, "$text"'; 'You say, "$text"' -- new |
| 17:57 | < SmithKurosaki> | makes it easier to read yes |
| 17:57 | <@Derakon> | Note that DF dodges this by using proper names or definite articles for every single noun. |
| 17:57 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29103.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 17:57 | <@Derakon> | E.g. "The Troll releases its grip on the Troglodyte's left foot, fourth toe." |
| 17:58 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29210.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 17:58 | | mode/#code [+o UndeadAnno] by ChanServ |
| 17:58 | <@Consul> | Troglodyte's Left Foot could totally be a band name. |
| 17:58 | < SmithKurosaki> | hmm... while having it easier to id yourself, having it do all names means that you dont have to mess around with second person, and i think less code |
| 17:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: yes, but that reads poorly. |
| 17:59 | < SmithKurosaki> | would it be easier to bold your name in the dialog / events window |
| 18:00 | <@Derakon> | TF: yeah. |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | SmithKurosaki: that would be several orders of magnitude harder. |
| 18:00 | < SmithKurosaki> | damn |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | And would still read poorly. |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | There is more code for distinguishing second person, but not much more: |
| 18:00 | < SmithKurosaki> | hmm |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | function ui.event.post(evt) if evt.who == me then evt.event = "you "..evt.event end; lc.message(evt) end |
| 18:01 | < SmithKurosaki> | makes sense to me (yay it makes sense!) |
| 18:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | so tf, how much longer are you going to be in this fey mood of yours? |
| 18:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Until it's done, or I'm not anymore. |
| 18:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | I realize that's a completely unhelpful answer, but it's the only accurate one. |
| 18:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | you are going to finish by the time the fey mood has passed or you are going to give up on it |
| 18:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not give up, just put it on the back burner. |
| 18:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | o ok |
| 18:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | I suspect, however, that I'm going to finish it. |
| 18:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 18:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | You say, "<<error/text>>" |
| 18:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Still a few bugs in the system~ |
| 18:24 | < SmithKurosaki> | gnar |
| 18:24 | < SmithKurosaki> | how close are you? |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | To having this working? A few minutes. |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | To having spellcast working? A few weeks. |
| 18:24 | < SmithKurosaki> | uggh |
| 18:57 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: <Insert Humorous and/or serious exit message here>] |
| 18:58 | <@Consul> | ToxicFrog: Oh, and I'm ready to help you test anytime you need. :-) |
| 18:58 | < SmithKurosaki> | umm... its on github, i dont remember the link tho |
| 18:58 | <@Consul> | Well, technically, I'm ready. Mentally, you might have to walk me through writing bug reports the first couple of times. |
| 18:59 | <@Consul> | Oh, if I have to do my own compiling... Well, that probably won't be so bad. I just need to know what tools to use. |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Consul: give me a few hours to sort out observing and whatnot. |
| 19:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | You won't need to compile anything yourself unless you're on OSX, which I don't have a toolchain for. |
| 19:00 | <@Consul> | At least on Linux, the system just naturally comes with all the tools needed to compile software. Setting up Windows for the same always seems more difficult. |
| 19:00 | <@Consul> | Oh, okay. |
| 19:00 | < SmithKurosaki> | yay having both windows and linux! |
| 19:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's an interpreted language, so most of it's distributed as source and run as-is |
| 19:01 | <@Consul> | Oh I don't have Linux at the moment. |
| 19:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | As for the binary modules it depends on, in linux they should be in your package manager, and in windows I've solved the dependency graph and bundled the DLLs. |
| 19:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | :( poor Consul |
| 19:02 | <@Consul> | Remember, I had major issues with stability with Linux thanks to my sound card. |
| 19:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | riight |
| 19:02 | <@Consul> | Since Windows has been absolutely stable, I can only conclude it's not a hardware issue. |
| 19:03 | <@Consul> | I do have some unpartitioned space (20GB worth) set aside for another eventual install, though. |
| 19:03 | < SmithKurosaki> | i still find that odd |
| 19:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | what did you have before? |
| 19:04 | <@Consul> | I did get a report of another person with this same card having the exact same issues as me under Linux. Possible conclusion: bad ALSA driver. |
| 19:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 19:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | That would do it, yeah |
| 19:05 | <@Consul> | So, I'm back to Windows XP and Reaper for music making. |
| 19:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | and, of course, alsa is the better of the drivers "( |
| 19:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | :(* |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | there is no "better of the drivers". |
| 19:05 | <@Consul> | Reaper being a flippin' fantastic piece of software that I really missed. |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | They all suck. |
| 19:05 | < SmithKurosaki> | well, you know about pulseaudio... |
| 19:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | and most people push alsa over oss |
| 19:06 | <@Consul> | That's not a driver system, that's a sound server. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pulseaudio is a sound daemon; it operates above the driver. |
| 19:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahh |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | The idea is, pulseaudio talks to the driver, and everything else talks to pulseaudio. |
| 19:06 | <@Consul> | I guess the commercial OSS driver system works really well, if one cares to pay for it. |
| 19:06 | < SmithKurosaki> | ahhhh |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Thus allowing it to do mixing and coordinate different programs and whatnot...in theory. |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | In practice, it doesn't work all that well yet, and it definitely doesn't work that well when half the programs are still bypassing it and contesting its control of the soundcard |
| 19:07 | < SmithKurosaki> | in practice, it dies |
| 19:08 | <@Consul> | The sad fact is that Linux will never be pro audio capable. |
| 19:08 | <@Consul> | Not the way things have gone. |
| 19:08 | <@Consul> | ALSA is all but a total con. |
| 19:09 | | * SmithKurosaki facepalms |
| 19:09 | <@Consul> | I could rant on and on. |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | I disagree |
| 19:09 | <@Consul> | And have. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | It isn't now, and it may not be for some time |
| 19:10 | < Namegduf> | PulseAudio also introduces unacceptable latency for 'pro' audio. |
| 19:10 | < Namegduf> | As I understand it, at least. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | But ten years you could look at it and say that it would never be a usable desktop operating system |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | *ten years ago |
| 19:11 | <@gnolam> | ... and ten years from now it'll be too late. |
| 19:11 | < SmithKurosaki> | its odd that everyone has sound issued in linux, but me, and i run two diff os's |
| 19:11 | < SmithKurosaki> | the only thing close a problem ive had is fceu breaking with sound on |
| 19:12 | < Namegduf> | The sound server idea was not a bad one, but it needed to be done ten years ago, and a lot better. |
| 19:12 | < Namegduf> | (Or at least, a lot better by now) |
| 19:13 | <@Consul> | Well, it's neither here nor there for me. I'll have to suffer with closed source in order to get anything done at all. |
| 19:13 | <@Consul> | Either way, I'm screwed. |
| 19:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: much of the problem comes from the fact that programs using the sound server work fine, but you also have lots of legacy programs that use other sound systems, many of them dead |
| 19:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | And half of those work by trying to get exclusive lock on the sound hardware, too |
| 19:13 | < Namegduf> | They don't need to try. |
| 19:13 | < Namegduf> | OSS-using programs by default do so. |
| 19:13 | <@gnolam> | Because That's The Way It Worked (TM) until not long ago. |
| 19:14 | < Namegduf> | Right, yes. |
| 19:14 | < Namegduf> | Which is part of why I said if it wanted to go that way, it needed to go that way ten years ago. |
| 19:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | So in addition to getting the sound server itself working, you also need to either rewrite all of these programs to use it, or write shims so that you don't have to. |
| 19:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which they seem to be working on, at least. |
| 19:14 | < Namegduf> | A new system which requires every sound-using program ever to be rewritten is... a hell of a thing. |
| 19:15 | < SmithKurosaki> | uggh |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hence the shims. |
| 19:15 | <@Consul> | Well, the pro audio side pretty much just uses JACK. |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | I believe they have one for ALSA already. |
| 19:15 | <@Consul> | Which is low-latency, and allows any routing between hardware and software. |
| 19:15 | < Namegduf> | And ALSA has one for OSS. |
| 19:16 | < Namegduf> | I'm not particularly impressed by PulseAudio's implementation, either. |
| 19:16 | < Namegduf> | The latency I hear it has isn't something really acceptable. |
| 19:17 | <@Consul> | The real problem is the people who have the real coding talent in the pro audio side really don't give a shit about anything other than their own little vision. |
| 19:18 | < SmithKurosaki> | and monet |
| 19:18 | < SmithKurosaki> | and money*' |
| 19:18 | < Namegduf> | ALSA largely works pretty well. |
| 19:18 | < SmithKurosaki> | mhm |
| 19:18 | < Namegduf> | OSS is pretty broken by default at least; lack of software mixing is unacceptable. |
| 19:19 | <@Consul> | Me and a couple of others were kicking around the idea of a DAW as an OS kernel, where all the features of the DAW could be implemented as small independent programs piping to each other. |
| 19:19 | <@Consul> | That way, large monolithic projects no longer have to be coordinated. |
| 19:19 | < Namegduf> | You mean a microkernel? |
| 19:19 | <@Consul> | The biggest problem would be the common clock and transport. |
| 19:19 | <@Consul> | Not insurmountable, but difficult. |
| 19:20 | <@Consul> | But the people with the talent to code such a thing, despite admitting it was a great idea, simply didn't care. They had their own pet projects. |
| 19:20 | < Namegduf> | Well, yeah. |
| 19:20 | < Namegduf> | If someone came to you with a nice sounding idea, would you drop everything you were doing to work on it? |
| 19:20 | <@Consul> | Whereas the DAW-as-kernel idea could solve so many of the problems Linux pro audio has with vision solidarity and distributed coding. |
| 19:21 | < Namegduf> | Bear in mind, ideas always sound better to yourself than to others, even if they are genuinely good. |
| 19:21 | <@Consul> | It wasn't just my idea, though. |
| 19:21 | <@Consul> | I even had Paul Davis weighing in on it. |
| 19:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Consul: I think you might have missed a rather important part of OSS development practices |
| 19:22 | <@Consul> | TheWatcher: That projects get abandoned the moment the developer gets a job? |
| 19:22 | <@TheWatcher> | If you have a Great Idea, you're generally expected to develop it yourself, or at least employ people to do it |
| 19:22 | < Namegduf> | Is it "patches welcome"? |
| 19:22 | < Namegduf> | Oh, yes, that one too. |
| 19:22 | < Namegduf> | The GoboLinux people get people with Great Ideas all the time. |
| 19:23 | < Namegduf> | They assume that just because GoboLinux has a Great Idea itself, it wants to implement all of theirs, too. |
| 19:23 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | what is GoboLinux's Great Idea? |
| 19:23 | <@Consul> | TheWatcher: I have clearly demonstrated I do not have the coding talent to even get started. |
| 19:23 | <@Consul> | So yes, you're right, all I am is hot air. |
| 19:23 | < Namegduf> | It replaces the File Hierarchy Standard with its own. |
| 19:24 | < Namegduf> | While retaining backwards compatibility. |
| 19:24 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | a...ha |
| 19:24 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 19:24 | <@Consul> | But in the end, all Linux audio is is a big fat mess of programs that don't work well. |
| 19:24 | <@Consul> | So, I say we're even. |
| 19:24 | < Namegduf> | Well, unless you have working ALSA drivers. |
| 19:24 | < Namegduf> | Then you're golden., |
| 19:25 | <@Consul> | And the drives to the core of the main issue with Linux: users are shunned. |
| 19:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...you know what would be cool? If it were possible to actually disconnect from a game. |
| 19:25 | | * ToxicFrog adds that |
| 19:25 | <@Consul> | If you can't develop, you aren't welcome here, and get out of our sandbox, please. |
| 19:25 | < Namegduf> | Not really. |
| 19:25 | < Namegduf> | Let's go look at Windows. |
| 19:25 | < Namegduf> | You have a Great Idea. |
| 19:25 | < Namegduf> | You can't develop it. |
| 19:25 | < Namegduf> | You're in exactly the same position. |
| 19:26 | <@Consul> | Namegduf: But at least on Windows, I have software choices that I actually like. |
| 19:26 | <@Consul> | And that work. |
| 19:26 | < Namegduf> | However, that's actually irrelevant to the complaint that "No one will develop my Great Idea." :P |
| 19:27 | <@Consul> | So you can say Linux is open and can work exactly how you want all you want, but that's disingenuous: unless you're a developer, you are still subject to the whims of the other programmers. |
| 19:27 | <@TheWatcher> | Same as any OS |
| 19:27 | < Namegduf> | Right, yeah. Unless you're willing to implement your own ideas, you have to use someone else's. |
| 19:27 | < Namegduf> | There really isn't a solution to that. |
| 19:27 | <@Consul> | And on Windows, I have access to software I actually like. Case closed, unfortunately. |
| 19:27 | <@TheWatcher> | So, use Windows. |
| 19:27 | <@Consul> | Would you believe that I do? |
| 19:28 | <@Consul> | I hate the fact that I do, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. |
| 19:28 | | * TheWatcher frankly couldn't give a shit what people use, provided that it does what's right for them. Evangelism is a pointless waste of energy, really. |
| 19:28 | <@Consul> | My sytem has been absolutely stable since I started using Windows again. Who's fault is that? |
| 19:28 | < Namegduf> | Clearly Microsoft's. |
| 19:29 | < Namegduf> | Send a complaint to them, and they'll issue an update to fix it. |
| 19:29 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 19:30 | <@Consul> | As for my Big Idea, well, who gives a shit? |
| 19:30 | < Namegduf> | Sounds like in your particular case, Windows might be the best solution. Still doesn't change that "No one will develop my Great Idea" isn't a flaw of Linux more than anything else... just in that case Windows is better out of the existing stuff. |
| 19:31 | <@Consul> | In my case, it's a matter of time and desires. If I had the time, I would be more than happy to tackle my Great Idea myself. As it is, I just want to frickin' make music, already. |
| 19:31 | <@Consul> | My desire was to pull together a group of people to try to tackle the thing. |
| 19:32 | <@Consul> | Everybody says it's a great idea, but when it comes down to it, nobody really wanted to try it. Probably including me. |
| 19:32 | <@TheWatcher> | And there's your problem |
| 19:32 | <@Consul> | I would say I stopped caring, but that's clearly not the case. |
| 19:33 | <@Consul> | Well, my first issue is that my system under Linux is highly unstable. That needs to be solved before anything else can happen. |
| 19:33 | < SmithKurosaki> | food time! |
| 19:33 | <@TheWatcher> | If you're not burningly enthusiastic about it, you're not going to instill enthusiasm in anyone else. |
| 19:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Or in the absence of enthusiasm, willing to fund development, anyway |
| 19:35 | <@TheWatcher> | And how many different linux distros did you try, anyway? |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | Three |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | Same problems under all of them. |
| 19:35 | <@TheWatcher> | The distros being? |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | Well, two, but two versions of one of them. |
| 19:36 | <@Consul> | Ubuntu 8.10, Ubuntu 9.10 and the Ubuntu Studio varation, and Fedora 10. |
| 19:36 | <@Consul> | Oh, and Arch. |
| 19:36 | <@Consul> | So, yes, three. |
| 19:37 | <@Consul> | I gave up on Gentoo after three times of waiting 12 hours each time for X and Gnome to compile, only to have nothing work at all after. |
| 19:37 | | * TheWatcher would suspect that it's either a) a hardware problem that windows is simply masking and linux was not, or b) a piece of hardware for which no properly stable driver exists |
| 19:38 | < Namegduf> | Probably b) |
| 19:38 | < Namegduf> | Those sound like the options, though. |
| 19:38 | < Namegduf> | Also, yeah, that sounds like Gentoo to me. |
| 19:38 | <@TheWatcher> | Dunno why, that's what I'm using ATM |
| 19:38 | <@Consul> | Given that a second person with the exact same card as me reported the same issue, I would say B as well. |
| 19:39 | <@TheWatcher> | (and can recompile X and gtk in less than 15 minutes - if it truly is taking you 12 hours, you really need a new machine) |
| 19:39 | | * Namegduf stopped using Gentoo after the frequent compliation errors annoyed him too much. |
| 19:39 | <@Consul> | It's a dual-core 3.1Ghz |
| 19:39 | <@Consul> | With 2GB RAM |
| 19:39 | < Namegduf> | Something is wrong there. |
| 19:39 | <@Consul> | Umm, I was probably exaggerating. It was more like 4 hours, I think. |
| 19:40 | <@Consul> | For X and all of Gnome. |
| 19:40 | < Namegduf> | That sounds more right. |
| 19:40 | <@Consul> | Still, three tries with different option and nothing working, I gave up. |
| 19:41 | <@TheWatcher> | You have blindly good luck, there. |
| 19:42 | <@Consul> | Anyway, the final nail in the coffin for me was the fact that the apps I liked most on Linux, Csound, Pd, Faust (especially Faust), Supercollider, and the like, all work just fine on Windows, too. |
| 19:43 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7168.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 19:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...of course. That's how I can handle observers. |
| 19:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't need a seperate observer rack at all. |
| 19:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I just make sendto_all() and sendto_all_but_one() iterate over the list of clients, not the list of players |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it just works. |
| 19:52 | < SmithKurosaki> | yay |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Player has joined the game. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | [server] event: quit |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | [client] event: quit |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | [ui] event: quit |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Player has disconnected: disconnect by user |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | \o/ |
| 20:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | ^5 |
| 20:02 | < SmithKurosaki> | want me to check it on death? |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not at that point yet. |
| 20:04 | < SmithKurosaki> | k |
| 20:25 | | * TheWatcher hrms |
| 20:26 | < SmithKurosaki> | ? |
| 20:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Operators I wish Perl had: `$foo = $min <= $foo <= $max;` to constrain $foo to the range $min to $max inclusive. |
| 20:27 | | * TheWatcher ponders checking whether perl 5.10 or 6 has that yet. |
| 20:27 | < SmithKurosaki> | good luck |
| 20:27 | <@Derakon> | min($min, max($foo, $max))? |
| 20:28 | <@Derakon> | ...no, that doesn't work. Don't mind me. |
| 20:28 | <@TheWatcher> | No, that'd always give you.. yeah |
| 20:28 | <@Derakon> | max($min, min($foo, $max)) instead. |
| 20:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 20:29 | <@Derakon> | Of course, if $foo is -BIGINT here, you'll get $max out. |
| 20:29 | <@Derakon> | ...no, you won't. |
| 20:29 | <@Derakon> | Sorry, I can't brain today. |
| 20:29 | <@TheWatcher> | No worries, Dera. |
| 20:30 | <@TheWatcher> | (and yeah, there's plenty of ways to do it, but I think it'd be neat to have it as an actual range operator... but hey, I'm insane, so) |
| 20:30 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 20:30 | <@TheWatcher> | (see also: using perl) |
| 20:30 | <@Derakon> | I forget, can you make your own first-class operators in Perl? |
| 20:34 | <@TheWatcher> | perl 6 can, perl 5 can't afaik, you can only overload a selection of existing ones |
| 20:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Very muck AFAIK, though |
| 20:42 | | NSGuest-888 is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 21:19 | | * TheWatcher works the Alien Abduction Error into his code, finally |
| 21:19 | < SmithKurosaki> | o.0 |
| 21:21 | <@TheWatcher> | (it's a signature thing, of sorts - when there's a very hard to trigger, but possible, error case in one of my programs or systems, I'll turn it into an alien abduction error if the wording works) |
| 21:22 | <@TheWatcher> | An easter egg, really. |
| 21:22 | < SmithKurosaki> | cool |
| 21:33 | <@McMartin> | "Alien Abduction Error"? |
| 21:42 | <@TheWatcher> | In this situation. "There are no recipes that start with this letter. If you think there should be some, they have obviously been abducted by aliens. You may be next, trust no one." |
| 21:44 | <@TheWatcher> | (it's actually impossible to generate this error unless you change the query string to the right thing, or the system has no recipes in it at all) |
| 21:44 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 22:03 | <@Consul> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdD9ypqoBk4 |
| 22:20 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Argh. Curse this fragile glass ball. |
| 23:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:56 | | SmithKurosaki [~Smith@Nightstar-7213.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 23:56 | | SmithKurosaki [~Smith@Nightstar-7213.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Fri Jun 12 00:00:02 2009 |