| --- Log opened Tue May 26 00:00:53 2009 |
| 00:40 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:45 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 03:46 | | Bob_Work [c6b3e33b@Nightstar-14595.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 03:51 | | * Bob_Work codeblocks |
| 03:51 | < Bob_Work> | If anyone is familiar with code::blocks, I have a few newb questions. |
| 03:52 | < Bob_Work> | That I can't figure out the answer to after a night of searching online. |
| 03:54 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Heya BSM. |
| 03:55 | < Bob_Work> | Heya MCV. |
| 04:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've used it a bit, but I usually use jedit |
| 04:14 | < Bob_Work> | Well, my questions may relate to IDE's in general. |
| 04:15 | < Bob_Work> | Basically, I've installed code blocks. Now I'm trying to figure out if I need to install other things to actually build a basic windows app |
| 04:15 | < Bob_Work> | I'm guessing wxwidgets, but really am not certain |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oooooh boy. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | This question is actually mostly editor-independent. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | By "basic windows app", you mean something with a GUI? |
| 04:22 | < Bob_Work> | aye. |
| 04:22 | < Bob_Work> | As a time saver for you, I'm going with Code::blocks and wxWidgets, which seems to be widely enough accepted to the point where I have enough resources online to help me. |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. There are actually lots of graphical toolkit libraries (the library that supplies the functions and data structures needed to create graphical interfaces). |
| 04:23 | < Bob_Work> | right. |
| 04:23 | < Bob_Work> | That's sort of my problem. =\ |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | wx is actually an incredible pain in the ass to build anywhere but your dev machine; the common joke is that it's a tool for stress-testing the compiler's error reporting systems. |
| 04:23 | < Bob_Work> | joy. |
| 04:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | qt and GTK are both widely used and supported and have lots of learning resources online, and with good reason; they're flexible, highly portable, and (as of qt4) both have graphical layout tools you can use to set up the look of the interface independent from the code. |
| 04:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | wx and tk are ok for prototyping but tend to result in spiders when you try to deploy. |
| 04:24 | < Bob_Work> | Yeah, had a bit of a problem with qt last night. |
| 04:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | (also, bear in mind that while I can talk about all the toolkits I've used, this is all coming from linux; I know their portability but don't know how to set up a windows-host build environment for any of them) |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | What sort of problem? |
| 04:27 | < Bob_Work> | missing DLL's that I can't install because I don't have admin rights to this machine. |
| 04:27 | | * Bob_Work gives up. |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | What OS? |
| 04:27 | < Bob_Work> | XP. |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | You should be able to put them anywhere in PATH and it'll Just Work |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | In particular, putting them in the same directory as the generated exe should work just fine |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...unless the problem was at build time? |
| 04:29 | | * ToxicFrog casts about for someone more conversant with windows based build systems |
| 04:29 | < Bob_Work> | bah, don't worry about it. |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sorry :( |
| 04:29 | < Bob_Work> | Not your fault. I'm just starting from too far back. |
| 04:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | First time doing dev (on windows|in a compiled language|with auxilary libraries|multiple of the above)? |
| 04:30 | < Bob_Work> | I'm trying to start simple, but don't want to drag the rest of the world down to my level. Which is frustrating, because there isn't a lot of documentation for beginners and GUI's. |
| 04:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's your current experience? |
| 04:31 | < Bob_Work> | Nah, I've been using bloodshed's DevC/C++, but only for console apps. |
| 04:31 | < Bob_Work> | Never built a GUI, and would like to try it for experience, if nothing else. |
| 04:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're already using that, you should be able to stick <gui library of your choice> into it and keep using it |
| 04:32 | < Bob_Work> | right. Problem is, I have no clue on how to do that. |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, if it's available as a DevPak (devpaks.org), DevC++ will install those automatically (they're actually just compressed archives with some devC++ info added to them) |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | In general, though - and this is true for most C/++ build environments, not just devC++ - it works like this |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | The library will come in three pieces - headers (.h, .hpp, etc); static libraries (.a, .lib); and dynamic libraries (.so, .dll) |
| 04:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Headers are needed at build time, and go in the environment's headers or includes directory |
| 04:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Static libraries also needed at build time, and have a seperate library directory |
| 04:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | And dynamic libraries are slightly more complicated because depending on what IDE/compiler you're using you might need them at build and run time, or only at runtime |
| 04:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | But in general if you need them at build time they go in the same place as static libraries and if you need them at runtime they go (for windows programs) in the same directory as the exe. |
| 04:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can go into brutal amounts of detail on why this is and what they actually do, if you like. |
| 04:38 | < Bob_Work> | no thanks. |
| 04:39 | < Bob_Work> | I'm already lost enough. But I appreciate it. |
| 04:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I switched to using interpreted languages for my personal work ages ago~ |
| 04:40 | < Bob_Work> | I'll bite. Interpreted languages? |
| 04:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Languages that are not compiled, but instead executed from source by a seperate program |
| 04:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | For example: with C, you start with foo.c, run that through a compiler to get foo.exe, and then run foo.exe directly |
| 04:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | With (to take my favoured language) Lua, you start with foo.lua, and run it through lua.exe and it just runs. |
| 04:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Python is another good one. |
| 04:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Disadvantage: they're much slower than compiled languages, and you need to distribute the interpreter along with the program (or tell the user to install it seperately). |
| 04:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Advantage: no waiting for compilation, no recompiling for different OSes or architectures, and most of them have an interactive mode (where you type in code line by line and it executes as you enter it - good for experimentation and debugging) |
| 04:55 | | * ToxicFrog pokes Bob_Work with a stick |
| 04:55 | <@Vornicus> | Python is my personal favorite. |
| 04:56 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Sssssss! Ssss! Ssss, sss, sssss, SSSSSSS! |
| 04:56 | <@Vornicus> | I think more people in this room know Python than any other language. |
| 04:57 | <@Vornicus> | Also, am I sad? Someone linked me to a raft puzzle and after about three tries I gave up and wrote a solution search program? |
| 04:58 | < Namegduf> | Sounds pretty awesome, actually, ahha. |
| 04:59 | <@Vornicus> | (mother, father, four kids - two of each gender, a cop, and a prisoner need to cross a river. There's only one raft, and the raft only holds two people. Get everybody across, without ever leaving: 1. the father with either daughter without the mother, 2. the mother with either son without the father, or 3. the prisoner with any family member without the cop.) |
| 05:00 | <@Vornicus> | (and only the father, mother, and cop can drive the raft.) |
| 05:01 | <@Vornicus> | (the solution is 17 steps long.) |
| 05:03 | < Bob_Work> | Nice. |
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| 06:45 | < Alek> | O_o |
| 06:46 | < Alek> | are they afraid one of the parents will do something to one of the children? |
| 06:47 | < Alek> | yeah, I see what those steps are. |
| 06:47 | < Alek> | I'm sure there's a bunch of variations there too, but they'll all fall into those 17 steps. |
| 06:48 | <@Vornicus> | Alek: idunno, it was strange. |
| 06:48 | <@Vornicus> | And there's only really two variations: ladies first, and men first. |
| 06:49 | < Alek> | not really. |
| 06:50 | < Alek> | what I was thinking, the two parents could ferry over the children, one by one. |
| 06:50 | < Alek> | then they could ferry over the cop, the cop comes back and finally brings the prisoner. |
| 06:50 | <@Vornicus> | Nope. |
| 06:51 | < Alek> | oh? why not? it follows all 3 rules and falls into 17 steps. |
| 06:51 | <@Vornicus> | It doesn't follow the mother rule. |
| 06:51 | < Alek> | oh gah. 2 people at a time. never mind. |
| 06:51 | | * Alek headdesks. |
| 06:51 | < Alek> | I have to get up in 4 hours, so good night. |
| 06:59 | <@Vornicus> | 1-4: use the cop to get one son across. 5-8: get the other son and the father across. 9-13: get the mother and one daughter across. 14-17: get the other daughter and the cop and prisoner across. |
| 06:59 | <@Vornicus> | The solution has an interesting symmetry: if you play it backwards it's the same solution with the genders swapped. |
| 07:03 | <@Vornicus> | Which actually isn't that surprising: the same rules apply on both sides. |
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| 07:08 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 07:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 09:22 | | * TheWatcher readsup, notes that he can actually shorten the raft problem to 3 steps: 1. the cop forces the prisoner to chop down trees. 2. The group uses the new wood and the raft wood to build a trebuchet. 3. all of them get into the bucket and fire the trebuchet, being thrown across the river together. ¬¬ |
| 09:23 | | * TheWatcher flrrrd |
| 09:33 | < Bob_Work> | Bah, that'd never work. |
| 09:34 | < Bob_Work> | Due to the amount of donuts the policeman has consumed over his life, the arc in his trajectory wouldn't be sufficient enough to make it across the river. Thus leaving the prisoner alone with ALL of the family members on the other side. |
| 09:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm. Point. |
| 09:34 | < Namegduf> | The answer is increased force. |
| 09:35 | < Namegduf> | Increase the capacity of the hardware to deal with the load being placed on it. |
| 09:35 | < Bob_Work> | So...force them to eat burritos before launch? |
| 09:35 | < Namegduf> | Or increase the efficiency of the system (i.e. the catapult). |
| 09:36 | < Namegduf> | I'm sure it's technically feasible to get him over. |
| 09:37 | < Namegduf> | ...can any of them swim? |
| 09:37 | | * Namegduf thinks "gloves" suddenly |
| 09:54 | < Bob_Work> | ? |
| 09:56 | < Namegduf> | DailyWTF reference, there were some people devising elaborate handlebar warming ideas for bikes, until some guy came along and suggested 'gloves'. A warning against overthinking systems, and being ready to consider much simpler and potentially cheaper/more maintainable alternatives. |
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| 11:21 | < Bob_Work> | Ah. |
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| 15:19 | < Finale> | http://bash.org/?25027 |
| 15:20 | < Finale> | <Arno^QS> Intel Inside: The world's most widely distributed warning label |
| 15:25 | < Finale> | <homework> oh god.. i just hit ctrl+s after putting down my pencil |
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| 15:49 | < Finale> | http://bash.org/?650276 |
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| 16:29 | < Finale> | win http://bash.org/?440169 |
| 16:34 | <@gnolam> | Bored today? ;) |
| 16:36 | < Finale> | quite. |
| 16:36 | < Finale> | nobody showed up for work, so I have the whole day to kill. |
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| 16:42 | <@gnolam> | Yay, modularity. |
| 16:42 | <@gnolam> | A friend I asked to test this requested a minimap, so I implemented a minimap. It took all of 5 minutes. |
| 16:45 | < Finale> | hee |
| 16:45 | < Finale> | sweet |
| 16:56 | <@gnolam> | http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic |
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| 20:13 | | * TheWatcher stabs the php developers in the head with a blunt icepick |
| 20:15 | <@Derakon> | Tsk. Your icepick isn't rusty. |
| 20:15 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm, point |
| 20:16 | | * TheWatcher sets about writing something to convrt php date() format strings into POSIX strftime() format strings |
| 20:28 | <@gnolam> | ... why? |
| 20:29 | <@TheWatcher> | I have a substantial (5k loc so far) perl system that is pulling auth and profile information out of a phpBB3 database. |
| 20:30 | <@TheWatcher> | I want to be able to show dates in the format the user has set in their forum profiles, which means wrangling the php date() format strings that phpBB3 uses into something I can throw at strftime() in perl |
| 20:31 | <@TheWatcher> | It's pretty much done now, save a few conversion specifiers that have no direct equivalents. |
| 20:32 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Seconds since epoch, surely? |
| 20:34 | <@TheWatcher> | "convert php dte format strings" |
| 20:35 | <@TheWatcher> | 'd M Y h:i a' for example |
| 20:36 | <@TheWatcher> | Becomes '%d %b %Y %I:%M %P' |
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| 20:56 | | * ToxicFrog facedesks |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Problem: all of my uploads are timing out |
| 20:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Solution: content-length: should be the length of the content in bytes, not the number of elements in the list the content will eventually be generated from. |
| 20:58 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Smooth. |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | (the actual code was "build the body table; build the header table; smoosh the body table into a string and return both") |
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| 22:09 | | * gnolam stabs Thunderbird with a sharpened spoon. |
| 22:53 | | * McMartin flails at Haskell, which is blowing out its stack even though the code looks tail-recursive. |
| 22:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 27 00:00:08 2009 |