| --- Log opened Sun May 24 00:00:08 2009 |
| --- Day changed Sun May 24 2009 |
| 00:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:00 | | * gnolam has now delivered RadiaX to a satisfied customer. |
| 00:00 | <@gnolam> | \o/ |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | \o/ |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | What's RadiaX? |
| 00:02 | < jerith> | \o/ |
| 00:02 | <@gnolam> | Radiation eXercise tool. |
| 00:03 | <@gnolam> | It's pretty much what it sounds like. Basically, a radiation exercise tool implemented in Half-Life 2. |
| 00:03 | < jerith> | Is that where you detonate a dirty bomb to encourage running as a weight-loss technique? |
| 00:05 | <@gnolam> | I think radiation itself is a pretty good weight loss tool. |
| 00:06 | <@gnolam> | http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/temp/radiax.avi <- video |
| 00:09 | <@Derakon> | Neat. |
| 00:09 | <@Derakon> | What's the thing on the table supposed to be? |
| 00:11 | <@gnolam> | Well, the model is that of a bomb core... |
| 00:12 | <@gnolam> | (The point entity within is a Cs-137 source though) |
| 01:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So I've got lighting turned on, and it varies as I rotate, but all the triangles have the exact same colour. They're even ignoring the hardcoded colour when I initially rendered them. Anybody have a clue why? |
| 01:20 | <@gnolam> | How can you see the lighting vary as you rotate if all the triangles have the same color? |
| 01:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | They all vary together |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | Ah |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | Check your normals? |
| 01:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | What normals? :) |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | ... that would be the explanation then. :) |
| 01:21 | <@Derakon> | By default only one side of a given polygon is rendered. |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | Is it the sphere thingy from earlier? |
| 01:22 | <@Vornicus> | YOu need to set the normal for each vertex as you draw. |
| 01:22 | <@Derakon> | You need to tell the program which side is "in". |
| 01:22 | <@Derakon> | Oh, right, vertex normals. |
| 01:22 | <@Vornicus> | This tells it how bright the polygon is. |
| 01:22 | <@gnolam> | Derakon: actually, that's decided from the handedness of the triangles. |
| 01:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | gnolam: my own attempt from scratch |
| 01:22 | <@gnolam> | Ah. |
| 01:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I see a vertex attribute called normal now |
| 01:23 | <@gnolam> | Well, vertex normals for a sphere are easy. Assuming a sphere in the origin, each vertex's normal is just its position, normalized. |
| 01:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... heh |
| 01:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm approximating a sphere anyway, same thing |
| 01:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Wee, I have variation, thankies :D |
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| 01:32 | <@Consul> | Well, I has some kind of result. When I woke up, the memtest86 screen was filled with junk and the computer had locked up. I don't know how to interpret that. |
| 01:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Now I need to figure out how to systematically render my triangles (rather than just listing a few), then start fixing them ;) |
| 01:33 | <@Consul> | What does memtest86 normally do when it encounters some bad RAM? |
| 01:35 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Consul: swear, lots. That's what it's for. |
| 01:36 | <@Consul> | So... |
| 01:36 | <@Consul> | The problem I encountered is likely a lock-up, and not it encountering some bad ram. |
| 01:37 | <@Consul> | Which means I definitely have a hardware problem, probably a bad (and getting worse) motherboard. |
| 01:38 | <@Consul> | Which means I'll be on the lappy until I can get the money to fix it. |
| 01:40 | <@Consul> | (Right now, I'm backing up what I can of this system.) |
| 01:49 | <@Consul> | Well, I'm switching to the lappy. See ya in a few... |
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| 03:35 | <@Derakon> | ...okay, this is not a good idea: |
| 03:35 | <@Derakon> | % mkdir backup && cp -r * backup |
| 03:37 | <@Vornicus> | ...no. |
| 03:37 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, no, it isn't. |
| 03:37 | < Namegduf> | Are you trying to back stuff up with something like that? |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | That was the idea, yes. |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | 'ls | grep -v backup | xargs cp -r backup' works, though. |
| 03:38 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, in root? |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | Geeze, no. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | I'm backing up Dwarf Fortress data before installing a mod. |
| 03:38 | < Namegduf> | Somewhere else you can't just create 'backup' outside the directory being backed up? |
| 03:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | cp -r won't try to copy a directory into itself. |
| 03:39 | <@Derakon> | ...this is not a problem that I need solving. It's a demonstration of a momentary failure of my common sense gland. |
| 03:39 | <@MyCatVerbs> | If you do mkdir foo && cp -r * foo; it'll skip over foo when copying into foo. |
| 03:39 | <@Derakon> | MCV: odd, because I got this message after a long delay: "cp: backup/backup/backup/(you get the idea)/art/curses_square_16x16.png: name too long (not copied)" |
| 03:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: oO |
| 03:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Are you using something wildly different from GNU cp? |
| 03:41 | <@Derakon> | OSX 10.4, whatever was installed. |
| 03:41 | <@MyCatVerbs> | That's descended from FreeBSD userland, so maybe it doesn't refuse to cp a directory into itself after all. |
| 04:04 | <@McMartin> | OSX also has a super-cp called "ditto" |
| 04:05 | <@McMartin> | Does things like translate internal symlinks into symlinks internal to the destination, &c. |
| 04:05 | <@Vornicus> | it also, iirc, copies resource forks. |
| 04:06 | <@McMartin> | Yes, but nobody in their right mind uses those anymore; they do the directory-bundle thing instead. |
| 04:08 | | * Vornicus is in his right mind and kind of has to: he reverse engineers. |
| 04:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... I somehow have a 4-sided triangle |
| 04:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh wait, I'm not just rendering 1 triangle. That would be why :P |
| 04:18 | <@Vornicus> | Though it could be argued that reverse engineering 20-year-old games is not something anyone in his right mind does. |
| 04:18 | <@McMartin> | Which game? |
| 04:19 | <@Derakon> | King's Bounty? |
| 04:29 | <@Vornicus> | King's Bounty, and also MoO. |
| 04:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My depth test appears to still be broken. Drawing only two triangles and rotating them, one always draws over the other |
| 04:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | aha, silently fails when gluPerspective is given a znear of 0 |
| 04:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | .... heh, I have a dictionary called vectormap |
| 05:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. Well, my proportions are still a little off, but it's close enough that I think my original idea is shot down |
| 05:30 | < Alek> | hmm. |
| 05:36 | < Rhamphoryncus> | This is a neat projection: http://www.odt.org/Pictures/mappamun.jpg |
| 05:43 | <@Vornicus> | Rhamphoryncus: There's also the Quincuncial projection, and then I made a variant on it |
| 05:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | An octant projection has an advantage for D&D in that you can use latitude/longitude |
| 05:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Huh, interesting |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7861878@N06/3558750328/ |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | I had a whole LJ post about it, but I have to put the image links back together. |
| 05:53 | | * Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | (in case you could not tell: I have tread much of this ground before) |
| 05:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 05:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm not sure if I've learned anything |
| 05:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For computer game tiling a geodesic dome still seems the best |
| 05:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The idea of a recursive subdivision may be pure fantasy though |
| 05:57 | <@Vornicus> | Recursive subdivision may work, but I don't know how well. |
| 05:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The geodesic dome essentially cheats. It uses one scheme to create the overall shape (an icosahedron), then subdivides that using another scheme (hexagons or triangles). Strictly speaking, that second scheme is *flat*, but it's close enough that you don't really care if you do distort it to make it look pretty |
| 05:59 | <@Vornicus> | You can't do better than cheating. |
| 05:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 06:00 | <@Vornicus> | This is one of the biggest results of topology: a plane and a sphere don't have the same gaussian curvature, so you can't project a sphere onto a plane and have it act right. |
| 06:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So my next thought, can I out-cheat them? Specifically, I want to maintain latitude/longitude alignment, but an octahedron has too few faces to be acceptably distorted |
| 06:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Of course if I do have more faces then it'll have to break down even further for mapping |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | Mercator projection preserves loxodromes - compass directions. This has the problem that it doesn't preserve area, so Greenland looks vast. |
| 06:02 | <@Vornicus> | healPIX preserves area, and manages to do so without stretching any points to lines; it covers the world with a rhombic icosahedron. |
| 06:03 | <@Vornicus> | But latitude and longitude cut the projection diagonally. |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 24 06:07:44 2009 |
| --- Log opened Sun May 24 06:07:49 2009 |
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| 06:08 | <@Vornicus> | Rham: what's the last you got? |
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| 06:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | [23:02:45] <Vornicus> healPIX preserves area, and manages to do so without stretching any points to lines; it covers the world with a rhombic icosahedron. |
| 06:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | [23:03:32] <Vornicus> But latitude and longitude cut the projection diagonally. |
| 06:08 | <@Vornicus> | Though the healpix folks piss me off because they don't show a demonstration of their stuff on the most familiar thing to project from a sphere: Earth. |
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| 06:09 | | * Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 06:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | healpix is about data storage, not projection |
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| 06:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It does look very interesting though |
| 06:10 | <@Vornicus> | Eh, same difference when we're working with raster models of something. |
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| 06:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 12 segments to start with, right? |
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| 06:11 | <@Vornicus> | 12, yes. |
| 06:11 | <@Vornicus> | wait, 12 segments of what? |
| 06:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Healpix start out with 12 pixels, each of which can be recursively subdivided 4 ways |
| 06:12 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 06:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And you have.. 8 odd vertexes? With 3 edges rather than 4 |
| 06:14 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 06:15 | <@Vornicus> | One of the advantages of hex geodesation is that the pentagons don't actually look too weird. |
| 06:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Does it align with latitude/longitude? Or do you simply not care because you're at ~45 degrees anyway |
| 06:16 | <@Vornicus> | Healpix has bands of identical-latitude pixels. |
| 06:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | not longitude though? |
| 06:16 | <@Vornicus> | No. |
| 06:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | k |
| 06:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "each pixel has equal area, and pixels are arranged in rings of constant latitude" |
| 06:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Shoulda just read that :) |
| 06:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The power-of-4 subdivision could actually be an issue for video game tiling. You probably want finer granularity for map size control |
| 06:21 | <@Vornicus> | It does help in a lot of ways though - OpenGL requires power-of-2 texture sizes, and it's usually a good idea to think that way anyway - it makes mipmapping that much easier. |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 24 06:31:59 2009 |
| --- Log opened Sun May 24 06:32:03 2009 |
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| 06:35 | < Rhamphoryncus> | With tiles though your main concern is what the user has to manipulate |
| 06:41 | <@Vornicus> | What, in the end, are you aiming at here, anyway? |
| 06:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Mostly just exploration, but the use cases I have in mind are hand mapping of a D&D world and a tile-based game like freeciv |
| 06:44 | <@Vornicus> | Ah. |
| 06:51 | <@AnnoDomini> | What are you talking about? |
| 06:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Mapping schemes |
| 06:57 | <@AnnoDomini> | I see. |
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| 20:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hee truncated rhombic triacontrahedron |
| 20:20 | <@Derakon> | Funky. http://robertinventor.com/cubeetc/rhombic.htm |
| 20:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | tiling a rhombic triacontrahedron with hexes (and a few pentagons) would be interesting, but I have a strong suspicion you'd end up with the same geodesic shape as has been discussed before (as illustrated by the truncated form's 12 sides) |
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| 20:26 | | * TheWatcher goes through http://ha.ckers.org/xss.html and checks his code handles the general cases of all of them |
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| 20:34 | <@McMartin> | TW: nice. |
| 20:35 | <@McMartin> | That said, aren't you using a dynamic language to generate your pages? Can't you just do a taint analysis on the user inputs? |
| 20:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes. But given that some of the user input is html... |
| 20:39 | <@TheWatcher> | (textareas with tinymce sat on top) |
| 20:39 | <@McMartin> | Aha. Yeah, that's a problem, then. |
| 20:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, right now I scrub it with a very restrictive HTML::Scrubber setup, manually check to make sure nothing slipped through that, throw it through HTML::Tidy, and then through the W3C validator |
| 20:44 | <@TheWatcher> | I would chearfully like to strangle whichever idiot decided that whitespace in script markers, and scripts in styles, was a good idea. |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 24 23:43:59 2009 |
| --- Log opened Sun May 24 23:44:03 2009 |
| 23:44 | | TheWatcher [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 23:44 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 23 nicks [11 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 11 normal] |
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| 23:57 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29299.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: We sense... something... something ancient... a sickly smell... a chilling wind. My ancestors scream from within their chambers in my mind but I cannot understand their words. This feeling... a memory? It sickens us, and for the first time in our lives, for the first time in generations... We fear.] |
| --- Log closed Mon May 25 00:00:39 2009 |