| --- Log opened Tue Apr 14 00:00:45 2009 |
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| 00:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | It compiles. Man, that's something I never expected to see. It's waaaaaay too big to test personally in simulation, so I'll have to settle for testing it on the hardware at the Uni. |
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| 00:12 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm kinda tired, so I'll leave port designations for tomorrow. Maybe I'll neuter the audio component some, since I don't need anything but a god-damn sine wave generator. |
| 00:14 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'll have to rework the audio trigger to continuous work after trigger, rather than only while the trigger is active. |
| 00:14 | <@AnnoDomini> | But for now, sleep. |
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| 01:32 | <@Derakon> | Hey, TF, care to lend your wisdom? |
| 01:32 | <@Derakon> | Take a look at this image: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen30b.png |
| 01:34 | <@Derakon> | The different background colors indicate different regions I'm placing down (e.g. jungle, cave, tech). I'm creating them by placing a bunch of seeds down in a grid and then running the spacefilling algorithm. I'd like for each region to be contiguous, instead of the broken-up grey areas I have now. Any ideas for an algorithm that would accomplish this while preserving relative region sizes (grey should be ~25% smaller than red)? |
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| 03:31 | <@Derakon> | Vorn, perhaps you will have some ideas here. |
| 03:31 | <@Vornicus> | Possibly. Have you considered writing a program to oppress the populace? |
| 03:31 | <@Derakon> | I wish to divide up an irregularly-shaped region into subregions such that each subregion is contiguous and has roughly a desired percentage of the overall region. |
| 03:32 | <@Vornicus> | I see. |
| 03:32 | <@Vornicus> | Convex? |
| 03:32 | <@Derakon> | I find that it's easier to oppress the populace via social engineering. |
| 03:32 | <@Derakon> | Convexity is not required. |
| 03:32 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 03:32 | <@Vornicus> | Orthogonally convex? |
| 03:32 | <@Derakon> | And in fact would be impossible unless I used tesselating polygons... |
| 03:32 | <@Derakon> | Meaning? |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | ...ehh, here, look at this: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen30b.png |
| 03:33 | <@Vornicus> | Ah, that neither. |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | The green is one region, the red and grey combine to form the other region. I want the grey to be contiguous, though. |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | I don't really care what shape it is, but it needs to be connected. |
| 03:34 | | * Vornicus examines. |
| 03:34 | | * Vornicus ... tries to decide how to describe it, and how to deal with wacky bits. |
| 03:36 | <@Vornicus> | When you say contiguous, does diagonal connectivity count as contiguousness. |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | ...no, it won't. |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | It took me a bit to figure out if that was actually the case. :) |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | At the moment, I'm planting seeds for my spacefilling automaton in a grid. |
| 03:38 | <@Derakon> | Hence why the regions are vaguely rectangular. |
| 03:38 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, het's do this this way. |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | Start from the worst place possible. |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | Which is to say a place with three sides already chosen, if possible. |
| 03:40 | <@Vornicus> | Then expand semi-randomly from there. You'll have to prevent breaking things up. |
| 03:41 | <@Derakon> | I'm afraid I'm not following... |
| 03:41 | <@Derakon> | Assume I start with an empty grid. |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | Right. |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | You don't want it all regular, right? |
| 03:41 | <@Derakon> | No, but I can muss it up using the spacefiller. |
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| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | Right; I'm suggesting a method to make it not quite regular. |
| 03:41 | <@Derakon> | Basically, fill a 10x10 grid, then put 9 spaces between each space in the grid, and run the spacefiller. |
| 03:42 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 03:42 | <@Derakon> | (This isn't a huge issue, BTW, since what this does is determine the region for tunnels, which are themselves irregular) |
| 03:42 | <@Derakon> | (Here's the map resulting from that diagram: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen30c.png ) |
| 03:42 | | * Vornicus is fiddling with it, trying to describe the correct algorithm. |
| 03:43 | <@Derakon> | Actually, this is a better example, since I tweaked tunnel flavor selection a bit. http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen30d.png |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | Essentially: you start with a very restricted seed. |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | You then want to place another cell randomly near it, in any place where you're guaranteed not to split the universe. |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | And repeat until this seed gets enough cells. |
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| 03:44 | <@Derakon> | "near" == adjacent? |
| 03:45 | <@Derakon> | And how is the starting seed restricted? |
| 03:49 | <@Vornicus> | Starting seed is in one of the places with the fewest "liberties" in the Go sense. |
| 03:49 | <@Vornicus> | ...but now that I think on it there are situations where this will go "fuck I can't go any further" |
| 03:49 | <@Derakon> | It's a harder problem than I'd initially thought too. :\ |
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| 04:07 | <@Derakon> | Hmm...I think what I may just do is plant one seed for each subregion, with lifespan calibrated to make it be roughly the desired size, and then go through and find areas that became blocked off and fix them manually. |
| 04:33 | | * Derakon ponders http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen30e.png, which clearly shows that his seed life calculation is off. |
| 04:33 | <@Derakon> | The grey region is supposed to be about 1/8th the size of the red region. |
| 04:34 | <@Derakon> | Seeds tend to expand out in a square one pixel in all directions each step, until the seed hits an opposed seed or its life runs out. So the life calculation I used was sqrt(total size of zone) * (fraction of zone dedicated to that region type). |
| 04:36 | <@Derakon> | ...hm, I want sqrt(fraction), not sqrt(total size), don't I? |
| 04:39 | <@Derakon> | ...actually, square root 'em both seems to work OK. The grey region's grossly outsized, but I think that'll fix itself once I have more than three regions. |
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| 15:28 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. I have about two weeks to learn SDL and make a complete 3D game. |
| 15:28 | <@gnolam> | Doable. |
| 15:28 | <@gnolam> | Definitely doable. |
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| 15:49 | <@gnolam> | I'll probably have to do 95% of the work myself again though. :P |
| 15:49 | <@gnolam> | Even if there are three other people involved. |
| 16:03 | <@gnolam> | Arrrgh. SDL uses "seperate" almost /consistently/ throughout its documentation. >:E |
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| 16:10 | < TheWatcher> | You just need to seperate their lousy spelling from the actual content of the docs *ducks, flrrrrd* |
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| 16:55 | <@gnolam> | Don't make me stab you. |
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| 22:43 | | * TheWatcher vaguely hunts for a decent, open source pastebin |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | Is the ubuntu.com website open-source? |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | To the extent that such a concept makes sense for a website, that is. |
| 22:48 | < TheWatcher> | I want the source for one so I can set it up myself |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | Right, I was thinking that they might credit their sources. |
| 22:50 | < TheWatcher> | http://pastebin.ca/ seems to be the most fully featured, apparently... |
| 22:51 | < TheWatcher> | .... why is nickserv saying my nick isn't registered, argh |
| 22:52 | <@AnnoDomini> | Because you touch yourself at night. |
| 22:52 | < TheWatcher> | Actually, I suspect it's because I was [afk] for a month, and nickserv dropped my entries for lack of use. Which is a pain. |
| 22:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | Indeeds. |
| 22:56 | < TheWatcher> | pastebin.ca seems to be the most fully featured. Of course, the author doesn't actually post the source, and expects you to email him to ask for a copy. |
| 22:57 | < TheWatcher> | sodit, I'll just write my own. |
| 22:57 | < TheWatcher> | That way I can tie it into forum accounts, too. |
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| 23:46 | | * Derakon comes dangerously close to typing "rm foo *" instead of "rm foo*". |
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| 23:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | Derakon: Tell me when you actually do delete every file in the system starting with 'r'. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Apr 15 00:00:57 2009 |