| --- Log opened Fri Mar 06 00:00:53 2009 |
| 00:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:30 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 00:36 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:37 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 00:39 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:40 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 01:23 | <@Derakon> | Agh, getting useful bug reports is a pain. ;.; |
| 01:23 | <@Derakon> | "ok i got it working on a newer computer without the file (i didn't have terminal because i think the computer i was running it on came before terminal was released) however the highscores don't work it just freezes after i click "scores" and the only way i can exit is by pressing space or return nothing else works not even force quitting." |
| 01:25 | <@Derakon> | I mean, I don't even know where to start with this. ;.; |
| 01:25 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: <Insert Humorous and/or serious exit message here>] |
| 02:13 | <@Reiver> | ...okay, why in all that is holy does inflect count as right shift and deflect count as left ctrl? |
| 02:14 | <@McMartin> | Your laptop is wired weird? |
| 02:15 | <@Derakon> | Because I changed the default controls again, but Reiver still has the old config. |
| 02:16 | <@Reiver> | Mumble. |
| 02:16 | <@Reiver> | I think you need to start having an installer that lets you overwrite old files~ |
| 02:16 | <@Derakon> | This is only an issue for the betas. |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Once the game hits v1.0 the file formats will be stable (and, if they change, backwards-compatible). |
| 02:22 | | * Derakon makes the read-before-downloading warning bright red. ¬.¬ |
| 02:48 | <@Reiver> | Hmm. Homebullet doesn't aim its waves at you; they add on in a counterclockwise circle. Deliberate? |
| 02:48 | | * Reiver never read it, because he followed a direct link in here ¬¬ |
| 02:48 | <@Derakon> | By "waves" you mean the large red bullets? |
| 02:48 | <@Reiver> | Yeah |
| 02:49 | <@Derakon> | They sure look aimed to me. |
| 02:49 | <@Derakon> | They're just really slow. |
| 02:51 | <@Reiver> | Run the demo for a bit |
| 02:52 | <@Reiver> | And they're aimed; I mean that the semicircle they describe doesn't center on you. |
| 02:52 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 02:52 | <@Reiver> | However, I do like the new options screen. Nicely done. :) |
| 02:52 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 02:53 | <@Derakon> | Thanks. |
| 02:53 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, interesting. |
| 02:53 | <@Derakon> | I know what's going on there. Thanks. |
| 02:57 | <@Derakon> | Okay, fixed. |
| 02:57 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 02:58 | <@Derakon> | ...turbo homebullet on high loops = ;.; |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon> | Sound effects that aren't fire&forget == pain. |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon> | Especially sound effects that change mode after a while, need to loop cleanly, and may be paused at any time. >.< |
| 03:19 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-3361.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 03:21 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-3361.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 03:21 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by ChanServ |
| 06:03 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:47 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29216.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 06:47 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 07:44 | <@Vornicus> | http://unspeakablevorn.livejournal.com/38213.html?mode=reply <--- I poll you! |
| 07:45 | | * AnnoDomini checks the thermometer, for this is now Soviet Russia. |
| 07:50 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 07:51 | <@AnnoDomini> | "It should not be a name that's taken" is going to be a problem. :P |
| 07:52 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 09:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:28 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #Code |
| 11:28 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 11:39 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7184.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] |
| 14:20 | | * gnolam ponders Beta radiation. |
| 15:12 | | KBot [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29264.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 15:12 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29216.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:13 | | KarmaBot [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29216.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:15 | | KBot is now known as KarmaBot |
| 15:20 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29264.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 15:20 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 15:50 | | * TheWatcher eyes this dynamic loader code, facepalms as he reailses something |
| 16:03 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:04 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 16:33 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:33 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 17:10 | | Netsplit Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net <-> DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net quits: Syloqs-AFH, KarmaBot, @Doctor_Nick, @McMartin, Alek, @ToxicFrog |
| 17:11 | | Netsplit over, joins: @Doctor_Nick, @ToxicFrog, Alek, @McMartin, KarmaBot, Syloqs-AFH |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o MyCatVerbs] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o C_tiger] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o EvilDarkLord] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o Consul] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o Chalain] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o Reiver] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 17:11 | | mode/#code [-o Derakon[AFK]] by ChanServ |
| 17:31 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:49 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 18:12 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 18:12 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 18:39 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:13 | | * TheWatcher eyes this code, is beginning to feel vaguely like he is stacking sand grains |
| 19:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Might actually be nice to be able to test it >.> |
| 19:21 | <@MyCatVerbs> | TheWatcher: guarantee it won't possibly work the by the time it's finished unless you do. |
| 19:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I'm certain of that. |
| 19:22 | <@MyCatVerbs> | TheWatcher: at the very least, put a few crappy shims in and exercise at least a few parts of it at the REPL. |
| 19:24 | | * gnolam decides to take a cluebat to some of his team members. |
| 19:25 | < simontwo> | gnolam, work or school? |
| 19:28 | <@gnolam> | Uni. |
| 19:29 | <@gnolam> | I've got one of the guys actually posting his menu mockups in /BMP/ format. |
| 19:30 | <@TheWatcher> | >.< |
| 19:32 | <@gnolam> | "conclalter1popup", BMP format: 741802 bytes. PNG format: 2436 bytes. |
| 19:33 | <@gnolam> | Of course, everything in that document is going to be LaTeXed in the end, so they should all be using vector graphics anyway. :P |
| 19:33 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-8573.midstate.ip.cablemo.net] has joined #code |
| 19:33 | | mode/#code [+o GeekSoldier] by ChanServ |
| 19:45 | <@McMartin> | Who takes screenshots in SVG? |
| 19:48 | < Derakon> | That does seem a rather odd choice. |
| 19:51 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7184.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 19:54 | <@McMartin> | (When mixing LaTeX and screenshots, PNG is generally the way to go, I found) |
| 19:55 | <@McMartin> | Unless, of course, something entirely different is meant here by "menu mockup" |
| 19:55 | | * McMartin is imagining something like Glade or Qt Designer or Visual Basic. |
| 19:57 | < Derakon> | I just use PNG basically all the time. |
| 19:57 | < Derakon> | Unless I'm dealing with photographs. |
| 19:57 | <@McMartin> | Incidentally, anyone with Internet Buzzword Compliance feel like ranting about the phrase "RESTful API"? |
| 19:57 | <@McMartin> | I did some cursory research and it looks suspiciously like it actually means something. |
| 19:58 | < Derakon> | IIRC it basically means "we're providing an API to access our service without going through the webapp." |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | Ah, POJOs. |
| 19:59 | < simontwo> | while we're on the topic of buzzwords, can anyone tell me what "soap" means in a dbms context? |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | SOAP is less buzzword and more actual technology name, IIRC. |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | I think it's a remote procedure call protocol? |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | Or else a generic object representation one like CORBA |
| 19:59 | | * McMartin checks |
| 20:00 | < Derakon> | The latter. |
| 20:00 | < simontwo> | my lecturer had it on his very first slideshow as lowercase soap, and he hasn't referred to it ever since, much less mentioned what it was. |
| 20:00 | | * McMartin applies acronym guess: Simple Object Access Protocol |
| 20:00 | | * McMartin now checks! |
| 20:00 | < Derakon> | In the context of DBMS, you're mainly just providing access to the data that goes into the objects. |
| 20:00 | < Derakon> | Maybe having some special queries to make constructing those objects easier. |
| 20:01 | < simontwo> | Derakon, that sounds like SOAP would be related to ORM. |
| 20:01 | <@McMartin> | SOAP is also apparently one of the w3c standards. |
| 20:01 | | * Derakon shrugs. |
| 20:01 | < Derakon> | I don't really know much about DBMS. |
| 20:01 | < simontwo> | oh. *rtfms* |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | SOAP is more for serialization |
| 20:02 | <@McMartin> | In any event, what little reading I did on REST indicates that it's also supposed to avoid RPCs as such in the model; everything a client could ask for is something that could be cached or proxied without the client app knowing. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eg, "I want to send this bucket of objects over the network" |
| 20:03 | <@McMartin> | If so, that's basically "hey look, stateless programs are way easier to reason about" |
| 20:03 | <@McMartin> | And gives Reiver another place where functional programming is actually practical~ |
| 20:03 | < simontwo> | heh |
| 20:03 | < Derakon> | Okay, first pass at the inflector charge sound effect is done. ;.; |
| 20:03 | <@McMartin> | (The term is also apparently a Web 0.7 buzzword, being coined in the dissertation of the guy who invented the Web.) |
| 20:03 | < Derakon> | So many areas where sounds have to be paused/unpaused/changed. |
| 20:04 | <@McMartin> | (HTTP in the sense of "go grab files from that server over there" qualifies, after all) |
| 20:05 | <@McMartin> | Also, regarding stuff SOAP is related to, apparently it replaces XML-RPC, which was kind of misnamed in the first place |
| 20:15 | < Derakon> | Well, I've had two people so far totally hate the new spark system. |
| 20:15 | < Derakon> | But most people seem to like it. |
| 20:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: how was XML-RPC misnamed? |
| 20:16 | | * Molgorn adds his voice to most, then |
| 20:16 | < Molgorn> | It's an extra dimension of play that does nothing to detract from those already in place. |
| 20:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: it *sounds* like a schema for encoding remote procedure calls in XML. What *is* it? |
| 20:16 | <@McMartin> | It's a way of encoding the arguments and return values. |
| 20:17 | <@McMartin> | Which is to say, it's an object serialization protocol that didn't realize that that was what it was supposed to be doing. |
| 20:17 | <@McMartin> | The "call" part, after all, is generally called "HTTP" |
| 20:18 | < Derakon> | Mol: thanks. I wasn't planning on removing the sparks. I'm just wondering how to make things even better. |
| 20:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: hrmn. So I take it that it doesn't actually enforce synchronicity? |
| 20:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: and does it provide a way to give URLs to individual objects within processes? |
| 20:19 | <@McMartin> | No; it is purely a document you send over, and a way of parsing the document you get back. |
| 20:19 | <@McMartin> | The "remote procedure" is a web application. |
| 20:20 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ...wat. So it doesn't even have a scheme for objects to refer to one another? How lame. |
| 20:21 | <@McMartin> | Here's basically the full spec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML-RPC |
| 20:21 | <@McMartin> | If you want a scheme for objects to refer to one another, use SOAP. |
| 20:22 | <@McMartin> | If you want a web server to be able to let clients talk to arbitrary processes on the server, get your head examined~ |
| 20:26 | | * Derakon ponders recording and Fusillade. |
| 20:27 | < Derakon> | If I just limited the sig figs for values in the BulletML files to, say, 6 points after the decimal, mightn't that account for differences in architecture? |
| 20:35 | <@McMartin> | If you really want to make sure, store them as 32-bit integers that are the IEEE 754 representations of floats |
| 20:35 | < Derakon> | Keep in mind that I rely extensively on eval() for handling BulletML expressions. |
| 20:44 | <@MyCatVerbs> | If you use floating point arithmetic at all, the very instant you do any actual calculation then values will diverge between 387s and FPUs that actually follow IEE754 more closely. |
| 20:45 | < Derakon> | Yes, but with truncated precision and rounding, shouldn't I be able to render those differences moot? |
| 20:46 | <@MyCatVerbs> | The algorithms for converting to and from decimal representations are actually a) in the IEE754 spec and b) implemented in software, not on the CPU, so quite possibly you could in theory expect to get the same bit-pattern from reading printed decimal floats regardless of what CPU you're running on. |
| 20:46 | <@MyCatVerbs> | But if you're only interested in the first few significant figures, then nothing really matters anyway. |
| 20:47 | < Derakon> | Let me go ahead and quote an expression from one of my BulletML files at you. |
| 20:47 | < Derakon> | $levelRate/250.0*(30+max(10,(20-2*$rank))*math.cos($1*250.0/float($levelRate)/ma x(2, (20.0-$rank)))) |
| 20:48 | < Derakon> | You can see why I'm leery of using special types of numbers. |
| 20:48 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Doesn't look like you're anywhere near relying on the lower bits of the FP mantissa anyway. |
| 20:49 | < Derakon> | Not really, no. |
| 20:50 | <@MyCatVerbs> | You've got one possible problem in there, in that the 387 does cos() incorrectly for numbers outside the range (-pi,pi) (or was it +-2*pi? I can't remember) and it looks like *that* term might go outside that range, but whatever. |
| 20:50 | <@MyCatVerbs> | The bug doesn't get noticable until you're up into the tens of thousands, and that expression will never exceed 125. |
| 20:52 | | * TheWatcher eyes this, args, where the fuck is that / coming from?! |
| 20:53 | <@MyCatVerbs> | TheWatcher: / associates to the left. |
| 20:53 | <@TheWatcher> | No, I'm getting a leading '/' added to a path in my code that I shouldn't be getting |
| 20:53 | < Molgorn> | Associates to the left of me, acquaintances to the right; here I am, stuck in the middle with / |
| 20:54 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Oh, heh. |
| 20:56 | < Alek> | ... |
| 21:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Mwahahah, it's alive! |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | huh, that's weird. "Undefined subroutine &Forum::set_error called at blocks/Forum.pm" even though Forum.pm has 'use base qw(Block);' right after the package, and Block.pm defines set_error() |
| 21:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | TheWatcher: scoping issue? The error message looks like it's looking for set_error() in Forum.pm specifically, rather than searching the whole set of loaded libraries. |
| 21:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | s/loaded/imported/ |
| 21:39 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Not that I actually know Perl or Perl's module system or anything, though. |
| 21:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Forum is a subclass of Block, it shouldn't be doing that. |
| 21:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Did you remember to bless? </shot in the dark> |
| 21:42 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm just going to use BlocK::set_error() directly and come back to that later |
| 21:46 | <@Vornicus> | 387? |
| 21:52 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: the FPU you get with your x86. |
| 21:53 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 22:32 | | * Derakon sets about making Gwalla very happy. |
| 22:32 | < Derakon> | Time to add "parent" variables to BulletML. |
| 22:34 | < Derakon> | Now, given that $px and $py are reserved for the player's location, what should I name the variables for the parent object's location? |
| 22:34 | < Derakon> | $cx and $cy are the current object's location, and $ex and $ey are the emitter's location, too. |
| 22:35 | <@Vornicus> | what are you doing for gwalla? |
| 22:35 | < Derakon> | Adding "parent" variables to BulletML. |
| 22:35 | < Derakon> | He wants a pattern where sub-bullets follow the bullet that fired them. |
| 22:35 | <@Vornicus> | what's that d...ah. |
| 22:36 | < Derakon> | I'll probably demo it using a minnow swarm. |
| 22:36 | < Derakon> | Anyway, variable names? |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | $parentx and $parenty |
| 22:38 | < Derakon> | That would break my "two-letter" naming convention. ¬.¬ |
| 22:38 | <@TheWatcher> | yes, about that >.> |
| 22:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | $mx and $my. |
| 22:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | And use "mummy" instead of "parent". |
| 22:38 | < Derakon> | Hee. |
| 22:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Actually, I should start doing that. |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | TW: keep in mind that I basically have to use $1, $2, etc. for passed parameters inside BulletML. |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | (This also means that $10 is interpreted as $1*0. :\) |
| 22:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Actually, $mx and $my work |
| 22:39 | <@MyCatVerbs> | I already use "links" and "rechs" instead of "left" and "right", just because they're the same length and hence the text of tree-manipulation code tends to line up nicely. |
| 22:39 | < simontwo> | MyCatVerbs, I was going to suggest that, too. then if he ever implements multiple inheritance, he can use $fx and $fy, too! |
| 22:39 | <@MyCatVerbs> | So I should obviously use "mutter" for parent pointers. |
| 22:40 | | * Derakon :gonk:s at Simontwo. |
| 22:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | simontwo: ah! 'f' hadn't occurred to me. I was thinking 'papa' for that, which obviously still clashes. |
| 22:40 | | * ToxicFrog :cthulhugonk:s at simontwo |
| 22:42 | | * Derakon eyes this set of SA emoticons. |
| 22:42 | | * simontwo thinks he prefers sensible names rather than short ones or monospace-aligned ones. |
| 22:42 | < Derakon> | Not only did someone pay for :goleft: -- there's also :engleft:. |
| 22:42 | < Derakon> | Simontwo: ordinarily I'd agree. |
| 22:46 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's no actual :cthulhugonk:, though. |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yet. |
| 22:46 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 22:46 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 22:48 | < simontwo> | Derakon, but these are times of cthulhu gonking! |
| 22:48 | <@MyCatVerbs> | simontwo: but "links" and "recht" sound better than "left" and "right" when you read them aloud, too. |
| 22:50 | < Derakon> | Maybe if you're German? |
| 22:51 | <@Vornicus> | cthulhugonk? |
| 22:51 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 22:51 | <@Derakon> | This is gonk: http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-gonk.gif |
| 22:52 | <@Vornicus> | a...ha |
| 22:52 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 22:52 | <@Derakon> | It's basically "DO NOT WANT". |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | I think we need :scigonk: before :cthulhugonk:. |
| 22:53 | <@Derakon> | Or maybe :enggonk:. |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | Well, SciGonk was a hack in the M&M2 thread |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | It's :science:, but the lightning is hittin gthe smiey in the face, and so it is gonking. |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | smiley |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | God, this wireless sucks |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | I've had to relog 4 times in the past two lines |
| 22:56 | <@TheWatcher> | And people wonder why I hate wireless >.> |
| 22:57 | <@McMartin> | Well, this is public wireless |
| 22:59 | <@Derakon> | ...you added the Secret Reload Course Button for a reason, Derakon. |
| 22:59 | <@Derakon> | So you wouldn't have to reboot Fusillade every time you made a change! |
| 23:26 | | * TheWatcher bleghs, has to go back to trying to get bbcode translation working efficiently |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | Cool, someone sent me a 3d-ified version of the icon for one of my projects |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/blorple3d.png |
| --- Log closed Sat Mar 07 00:00:05 2009 |