--- Log opened Mon Mar 02 00:00:40 2009 |
00:01 | <@Derakon> | Ehhh, more important fish to fry right now. |
00:01 | <@Derakon> | I'll return to this later. |
00:05 | <@Finerty> | Alternatively you can make Really Cheap images to load for testing purposes. |
00:08 | <@Derakon> | Yeah... |
00:09 | <@gnolam> | Is it possible to write use cases that don't read like really poor children's stories? |
00:10 | <@Finerty> | heh |
00:10 | <@Derakon> | Don't put "And everyone worked happily ever after" at the end~ |
00:11 | <@Derakon> | ...heh. |
00:11 | <@Derakon> | If I try to send a score of 0 to the server, it complains that it's missing the required parameter 'score'. |
00:11 | <@gnolam> | Hah. |
00:11 | | * Derakon slips a 'defined' into a conditional. |
00:13 | <@gnolam> | Strangely, it's even worse when you're writing use cases with non-human actors. |
00:14 | <@Derakon> | We have a tendency to anthropomorphize computers and programs. |
00:14 | <@gnolam> | You just can't avoid the "See Spot run"-ness of it. |
00:14 | <@Derakon> | Though in my case it's usually things like "The script will gleefully overwrite half the database if X happens..." |
00:15 | <@gnolam> | "The radiation source sends a dose quantum to the player. See the radiation source irradiate!" |
00:16 | | * Derakon snickers. |
00:16 | <@Derakon> | Irradiate, source, irradiate! |
00:21 | <@Derakon> | ...why is urllib.urlencode postpending "-0-1%0A" to my query string? |
00:22 | <@Finerty> | O.o |
00:23 | <@Derakon> | The last thing in the query string is the course key, IHjR0wG6jZoIcKIRr1zMPw. |
00:23 | <@Derakon> | But there's no special characters in that. |
00:24 | | * TheWatcher[zZzZ] eyes Dera, reminds him to check unless(defined($score)) rather than just unless($score), given that undef, "" and 0 are all false |
00:24 | <@Derakon> | TW: yeah, got that already~ |
00:25 | <@Derakon> | I wouldn't consider it a problem for scores of 0 to be invalid, but your loop could also be 0. |
00:25 | <@TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | Just making sure, the number of times that's caught me befor enow and caused a facepalm ¬¬ |
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00:46 | <@gnolam> | Man, more forums should have built-in LaTeX functionality. |
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01:40 | <@Derakon> | ...d'oh. The -0-1 stuff was added by me to indicate turbo and inflector locks. |
01:40 | <@Derakon> | Go me! |
01:42 | | * gnolam stabs OpenUP with a serrated knife. |
01:49 | <@Derakon> | Man, Homebullet gets spastic on high-level turbo. |
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02:21 | <@Derakon> | What's the proper way to determine if a number is a valid index into a list in Python? |
02:21 | <@Derakon> | Just check it against the length? |
02:21 | <@Derakon> | I was going to do "foo in bar", but that would check against bar's values, not indices. |
02:22 | <@Vornicus> | Essentially, yes. |
02:22 | <@Vornicus> | -len(l) <= i < len(l) |
03:01 | | * Derakon finishes rewriting scores display to make room for the leaderboard. |
03:01 | <@Derakon> | Now I just have to write get-scores.cgi, the appropriate client code in Fusillade, and a button for the main page to switch display modes. |
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03:32 | | * Reiv appears from Uni. |
03:32 | < Reiv> | So: Haskell. Any opinions/expertise? |
03:34 | <@McMartin> | It's basically the Academic Pure Functional Language. |
03:34 | <@McMartin> | If you're doing something real, use OCaML instead. |
03:34 | <@McMartin> | Haskell's type system is awesome, though. |
03:34 | <@McMartin> | And has a tendency to spoil you forever when you go back to other languages, as TF can attest |
03:35 | < Reiv> | So, a pretty decent thing to learn all the same? |
03:36 | < Reiv> | (Any particular reason it's remained Pure Acadamia?) |
03:37 | <@McMartin> | (Extremely abstract, ML's compilers are Just Better) |
03:37 | <@McMartin> | The stuff it's really good at is mostly the kinds of things researchers care about rather than industrialists. |
03:38 | < Reiv> | Aw. Okay den. |
03:39 | < Reiv> | Do you know if there's liable to be any issues regarding cross-compatability between windows and linux compilers? |
03:40 | <@McMartin> | I've only ever used Linux compilers, so no idea |
03:40 | < Reiv> | Okay. |
03:43 | < Reiv> | I shall have to See, and Hope, because the linux box at home is a bit of a pain to work with. |
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04:02 | <@Derakon> | Hrm. SQL query to get the top 3 elements, plus the 4 elements whose value in column A is closest to some provided value. |
04:02 | <@Derakon> | Sounds like I want to sort by min(abs(row.value - targetvalue)). >.< |
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16:40 | <@gnolam> | Aaaand /of course/ Visio's SVG export isn't compatible with Inkscape. |
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16:43 | <@gnolam> | GARGH |
16:45 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. |
16:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | Oh, no! Our comrade, Space Viking gnolam has been killed in the night by a Space Werebear! |
16:46 | < EvilDarkLord> | Rejoice. |
16:49 | <@gnolam> | Oh joy, handling humongous bitmaps instead. :P |
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17:28 | < Molgorn> | y halo |
17:33 | <@Vornicus> | hola. |
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18:02 | < Finale> | <gray> fsck. Two hours I looked for the bug. Typo in one symbol. |
18:03 | < Finale> | <Fester> I know the pain. Be thankful it wasn't APL. :D |
18:03 | < Finale> | <gray> Two screens of regexp :) |
18:03 | < Finale> | <Fester> I withdraw my comment. :) |
18:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pffft |
18:15 | < Finale> | xxx: I was thinking it's illogical to call images on the desktop, wallpaper. They should be called tablecloths. |
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18:33 | < Molgorn> | quick question! in PHP, how can I do "$_GET this variable from the URL, or if it's not specified use some_default"? |
18:34 | <@Derakon> | I believe "$foo = $_GET['bar'] || 'some_default';" works. |
18:34 | <@TheWatcher> | $foo = $_... what dera said |
18:35 | < Molgorn> | ah, thank you |
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18:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Molgorn: why are you using PHP, incidentally? |
18:47 | <@Derakon> | Hell, I wasn't aware that you did programming at all. |
18:47 | < Molgorn> | I'm using PHP scripts to grab data from a MySQL db and output it as XML so it'll play nice with XUL for a Firefox extension |
18:47 | < Molgorn> | in theory |
18:48 | < Molgorn> | Der: I don't, as much as I can help |
18:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, that's what, but it doesn't answer why |
18:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | PHP is full of spiders ;.; |
18:48 | < Molgorn> | Because I know even less of any other potential thing I could use to achieve the same end. |
18:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: That emoticon is a spider. |
18:52 | <@Derakon> | Heh. So it is. |
18:52 | <@Derakon> | Oh, hey, it's March! |
18:52 | <@Derakon> | I can download sounds again! <3 |
18:55 | < Molgorn> | Hm. My current incarnation will happily take "grabUser.php?field=user_id&value=1" and return the information for the user with id 1; but it won't take "grabUser.php?field=firstname&value=Test" and return the same information |
18:55 | < Molgorn> | Given that the user with id 1 is Test Testerson, I find this odd |
18:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | Check for spaces in the entry? |
18:57 | < Molgorn> | The DB entry? |
18:57 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
18:57 | < Molgorn> | None there |
18:58 | <@TheWatcher> | Are you quoting appropriately? |
18:58 | <@TheWatcher> | In your sql query |
18:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, is it matching literally? |
18:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, wait |
18:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sorry, misread the field |
18:59 | <@TheWatcher> | (see also: why I absolutely hate php's database support, especially compated to perl's DBI) |
19:00 | <@TheWatcher> | *compared |
19:02 | < Molgorn> | The query that worked for user_id is $query = SELECT * FROM User WHERE ".$field." = ".$value; |
19:02 | <@Derakon> | Eeeegh. |
19:02 | <@Derakon> | Okay, you need to escape your variables. |
19:02 | <@TheWatcher> | Mol, where's this running? |
19:02 | <@Derakon> | http://us3.php.net/mysql_real_escape_string |
19:02 | < Molgorn> | I'd link, but no voice |
19:02 | <@Derakon> | Run that on everything you use as a query variable. |
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19:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Because I'd very much like to set value to '1; DROP TABLE User;' ¬¬ |
19:03 | <@Molgorn> | http://people.bath.ac.uk/ajf28/elcano/grabUser.php?field=user_id&value=2 |
19:03 | <@Derakon> | And $field should be chosen from an associative array or something to make certain that it's valid. |
19:03 | <@Molgorn> | Only 'cos you've seen XKCD |
19:03 | <@Molgorn> | Der, there'll be time for shiny stuff once I've got a cacky version that does something ¬¬ |
19:04 | <@Derakon> | The cacky version must include escaping variables. |
19:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | TheWatcher: This is why I name my tables arcanely. :P |
19:04 | <@Derakon> | This is not shiny. This is a fundamental requirement. |
19:04 | <@Molgorn> | I don't give a toss about security, inefficiency, horrible practice or the like; I just want something that grabs the info |
19:04 | <@TheWatcher> | AD: This is why you should *never ever* allow user access to that sort of thing. |
19:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
19:05 | <@TheWatcher> | And you should make damned sure to sanitise all user input through the strictest rules |
19:05 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, must go AFK for a bit. |
19:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | LETTERS AND NUMBERS ONLY. FINAL DESTINATION. |
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19:08 | <@Molgorn> | whoops, doesn't work at all now |
19:08 | <@Molgorn> | Just returns the outermost XML tags |
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19:14 | <@Molgorn> | http://people.bath.ac.uk/ajf28/elcano/grabUser.txt is a copy of the code, idly |
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19:16 | <@Derakon> | Okay, thoughts on client/server interactions for scoring. Ramble incoming. |
19:17 | <@Derakon> | Client sends most recent scores to server. Server saves client score to database, retrieves top 3 scores plus 1 score on either side of client's score. Returns each score. A score entry consists of the rank, name, score, survival time, loop number, and final pattern. |
19:17 | <@Derakon> | Client can also request scores from the server. In that case, server returns top 3 scores plus 1 score on either side of client's highest-ever score. |
19:17 | <@Derakon> | In either case, server also tells client the client's highest-ever rank. |
19:18 | <@Derakon> | Does this all sound plausible? |
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19:29 | | * Derakon ponders MySQL. |
19:30 | <@Derakon> | The highscores table has a column 'score', naturally. I have a score. I want to find where that score goes in the table, as well as what "rank" it has compared to adjacent scores. |
19:31 | <@Derakon> | E.g. a table having scores [15, 12, 9, 6, 3] and a new score 8, I want to get 9 and 6 out, and know that the ranks are 3, 4, and 5. |
19:31 | <@Derakon> | How the hell do I do that?! |
19:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | Bubble sort? |
19:32 | <@Derakon> | Let me rephrase: how do I do this without pulling the entire contents of the database down? |
19:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Hrmn. Don't most databases use b-trees for indexes? |
19:40 | | * gnolam smacks AnnoDomini. |
19:41 | <@MyCatVerbs> | And most enough any search-tree structure gives you "find next" and "find previous" with pretty good time bounds, provided the nodes have parent pointers. |
19:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: WHAT. |
19:43 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: perhaps just the sheer lack of situations in which bubble sort is appropriate? Not to mention the idea of pulling down the whole database. |
19:43 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: I mean you may as well suggest towers-of-hanoi-sort. |
19:45 | | * AnnoDomini tries to think of less efficient sorts. |
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19:46 | <@gnolam> | Bogo sort. :P |
19:47 | <@Derakon> | Random sort. |
19:47 | <@Derakon> | Permute the list randomly. Check: is it sorted? If not, repeat. |
19:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Slim Shady Sorting Algorithm! |
19:47 | <@Vornicus> | Der: select count(score), min(score) from high_scores where course = my_course AND score > my_score; |
19:47 | <@Vornicus> | Will get you most of that. |
19:48 | <@Vornicus> | oh, there's some random-ass group by you have to add, but I don't remember how to group on all of them. |
19:49 | <@Derakon> | That query's intended to get me, what? |
19:49 | <@Derakon> | The number of scores and the lowest score? |
19:49 | <@gnolam> | XKCD's "ass" comic strikes again. |
19:49 | <@Derakon> | Oh, the scores above the score I'm inserting, I see. |
19:49 | <@Vornicus> | A random ass-query. |
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20:03 | <@Derakon> | Argh, MySQL Query Browser is a damn sight better than commandline access, but I really hate how its error console a) is three lines tall, b) puts new errors on the bottom, and c) cannot be cleared. |
20:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Derakon: install phpMyAdmin |
20:07 | <@TheWatcher> | needs no admin work by your hoster (edit config.inc.php before uploading), and it makes life vastly easier |
20:07 | <@Derakon> | What does it do? |
20:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Gives you a web interface to your databases. Give me a sec and I can show you |
20:08 | <@Derakon> | Ahh. |
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21:56 | <@Derakon> | I'm having a serious motivation problem with the leaderboard. :\ |
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21:59 | < Reiv> | So, um. |
21:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | Soso. |
21:59 | < Reiv> | I need an Idiots Guide To Tree Structures In Java. |
22:00 | < Reiv> | I'm not sure why, but while the concept of a tree on paper seems trivial, how to get it working in actual code baffles me. |
22:01 | <@TheWatcher> | They're kinda like trees everywhere else, except that they are well adapted to the volcanic soils. |
22:01 | <@TheWatcher> | ¬¬ |
22:02 | | * Derakon facepalms. |
22:02 | <@Derakon> | So what's giving you difficulties? |
22:02 | <@Derakon> | I haven't looked specifically at Java trees, but as a general rule you should have insert, find, and traverse functions. |
22:03 | < Reiv> | Just... Okay, so you have a cute little object that stores your relevant data that you want to store. |
22:03 | < Reiv> | How do you get it to attach to other nodes, and attach other nodes to it, so that you can insert/find/delete/traverse? |
22:04 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, are you writing your own, or using the TreeMap/TreeSet classes? |
22:04 | < Reiv> | I can't help but think this is a blatantly obvious technical detail that I'm missing. |
22:04 | <@Derakon> | If the tree is properly abstracted, then you should just call something like tree.insert(other_object) to add to it. |
22:04 | <@Derakon> | Or if you have two trees, something like tree.extend(other_tree) |
22:05 | <@Derakon> | And presumably it has an iterator to go over the elements of the tree in order. |
22:07 | <@Vornicus> | Reiv: your tree node has a parent, a left, and a right. These are references, initially null, to treenodes. |
22:07 | < Reiv> | Vorn: Does this apply for arbitary number of leaves per node? |
22:07 | <@Vornicus> | Oh, and it also has a data field which is a container for your data; the data field should implement Collatable or whatever the hell it's called |
22:08 | <@Vornicus> | Reiv: well in that case you need a list of leaves and a list of datas. |
22:08 | < Reiv> | Okay. Hrm. |
22:12 | | * Derakon tries to figure out how to clean up this sound effect. |
22:13 | <@Derakon> | It's so close to perfect but right at the end there's some rattle in it. :\ |
22:13 | | * TheWatcher vaguely stabs chomp(), writes a replacement |
22:13 | <@Derakon> | http://www.soundsnap.com/node/18109 is the sound; I want to use it for the charging deflector. |
22:14 | < Reiv> | 2 minutes long? |
22:15 | <@Derakon> | Only part of it. |
22:15 | < Reiv> | Ah. |
22:15 | <@Derakon> | 12s for the charge, and then a 1-2s loop for fully-charged. |
22:16 | <@Derakon> | Unfortunately, the rattle is not higher-frequency than the tone I want to get. |
22:17 | <@Derakon> | (Nor lower) |
22:17 | < Reiv> | I'm still puzzled why you're hardcoding the timer instead of letting it charge like the old way. |
22:18 | <@Derakon> | I feel this plays better. |
22:18 | < Reiv> | Okay den. |
22:18 | <@Derakon> | You still have plenty of incentive to inflect bullets, since that's the only way to increase your multiplier and sparks are a huge portion of your end-of-loop score. |
22:19 | < Reiv> | Yeah, but just running it in general? |
22:19 | <@Derakon> | Also, given that I want to have a sound effect for the charging deflector, it's much easier to have the charge length be constant. |
22:19 | < Reiv> | Well, that's fair, I suppose. |
22:19 | <@Derakon> | Reiver: so you have to find holes in the pattern where you can safely inflect. |
22:19 | < Reiv> | How's the sound effect sound if you keep start/stopping it? |
22:19 | <@Derakon> | I haven't gotten that far yet. |
22:19 | < Reiv> | Hit play/pause a lot~ |
22:20 | <@Derakon> | Sounds about like I'd expect it to. *shrug* |
22:23 | <@Derakon> | Oh, I linked the wrong sound earlier. http://www.soundsnap.com/node/17588 |
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22:50 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
22:58 | <@gnolam> | http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/ |
22:59 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
23:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
23:22 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
23:22 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9147.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
23:22 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
23:57 | | Reiv [~82d94c4d@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)] |
23:58 | | * gnolam adds Aleksandr Litvinenko to the team roster as "Alpha Tester". |
--- Log closed Tue Mar 03 00:00:52 2009 |