| --- Log opened Sun Nov 09 00:00:14 2008 |
| 00:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:26 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29799.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: I am Magellan-R-MGE. I see your group is missing a Hygiene officer.] |
| 01:51 | <@Derakon> | ...right, I forgot about that whole "SSL requires a signing authority" thing. |
| 01:51 | <@Derakon> | Unless you want to fake it and have every browser scream that you aren't trusted, of course. |
| 01:52 | < Vornotron> | Eh. |
| 01:52 | < Vornotron> | SSL isn't that important, I mean |
| 01:52 | < Vornotron> | Unless you're selling stuff. |
| 01:52 | <@Derakon> | It is if I'm going to have "real" accounts for Race for the White House. |
| 01:52 | < Vornotron> | No it's not. |
| 01:52 | < Vornotron> | Der, how does nickserv get your password? |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon> | My impression was that nickserv was not remotely secure, which is why that particular password is not especially strong. |
| 01:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | I note that "well, this other system we use is insecure" is not an excuse for continuing to build insecure systems. |
| 01:53 | < Vornotron> | Well, no. |
| 01:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it's not. |
| 01:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hell, I can read the passwords in cleartext right out of the database. |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon> | I suppose I could encrypt things client-side manually. |
| 01:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | With strings. |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 01:54 | < Vornotron> | But I don't any reason to make it absurdly secure, I mean really, it's just a game. |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon> | What I really want is a nice Perl-based system that'll do all this for me automatically~ |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon> | On the one hand, yes, Vorn, your point is valid. On the other hand, it's also an exercise. |
| 01:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I'd like a "weak https" that does crypto but not authentication. |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon> | But for the moment, I think I'll just replace the account_id column in the Player table with a "player_name" column. |
| 01:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | IE, it doesn't guarantee the identity of either end (and doesn't require a signer), but it does guarantee that the traffic can't be sniffed. |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 02:00 | <@gnolam> | Firefox's "HTTPS with a self-signed certificate is worse than unencrypted! It's the DEVIL!" stance is just one more reason why I have no faith in that particular project anymore. |
| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 02:07 | <@gnolam> | (Other reasons include the obnoxious so-called "awesome bar" and the general trend towards a) bloat and b) obstinate refusal to let you change settings) |
| 02:08 | <@Derakon> | I actually rather like the "awesome bar", though I do agree that they should have let you use the old behavior if you prefer it. |
| 02:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | "awesome bar"? |
| 02:14 | <@gnolam> | That's what they call breaking the address paradigm by having the location bar search through titles as well as URLs, in your entire bookmark list and page history. |
| 02:15 | <@gnolam> | And they purposely disabled the about:config entry that let you disable that horrible behavior. |
| 02:16 | <@Derakon> | Gnolam: note that this also lets you find URLs by whatever happens to be unique about them, which means a lot less typing to get to e.g. deeply-nested subdomains. |
| 02:16 | <@Derakon> | If I want to get to http://www.foo.com/bar/baz/quux and there's also bar/baz/flarghle and bar/baz/fnordlingrads, I can just type "foo quux" and get what I want. |
| 02:17 | <@gnolam> | And if you want to go to, say Google News when you also visit, say, Slashdot, you're fucked. |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Er... |
| 02:17 | <@gnolam> | Because Slashdot has "news for nerds, stuff that matters" in its title. |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Or you could type "news go". |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | I admit that the rollout was pretty badly handled, but the feature actually is useful. |
| 02:18 | <@gnolam> | => more typing. |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | It just takes some getting used to. |
| 02:18 | <@gnolam> | No. It is an awful feature. The URL bar is for URLs. |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | It also tends to do a good job of sorting things. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | The URL bar is for finding URLs for sites that you visit regularly. |
| 02:19 | <@gnolam> | If you want to search through page titles in your history, /search the fucking history/. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | You shouldn't have to start typing at an arbitrary point (the beginning) just to get them. |
| 02:23 | <@gnolam> | Ctrl+H, type, enter. |
| 02:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | I note that Opera has had this feature for a long time, and it's sufficiently useful and unobtrusive that I didn't even notice until I checked for it just now. |
| 02:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure what your point is about, say, slashdot vs google. |
| 02:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you type in "news" without this feature, you get nothing, or news.com, or something. |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | He's saying that if he types "news", which is the beginning of news.google.com, Slashdot also shows, because it has "news" in its page title. |
| 02:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you type in "slashdot.org" or "news.google.com" with this feature, it behaves just like a normal URL bar. |
| 02:25 | <@gnolam> | If you type in the entire URL, yes. |
| 02:25 | <@gnolam> | Autocompletion: good. Mindless matching of *STRING* in both URLs and titles: bad. |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | If you're blindly typing "ne*down arrow*enter*" without seeing what you're selecting, you're probably going to end up getting a random individual article anyway. |
| 02:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | What McM said. |
| 02:26 | <@Derakon> | You're clearly convinced that you're right, so I don't think we're accomplishing anything here. |
| 02:26 | <@gnolam> | Having an about:config entry and then deliberately removing it: unforgivable. |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | It's not even autocompletion! |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | You have to deliberately select a menu item. |
| 02:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not being able to turn this off is stupid and wrong as a matter of principle, but none of the arguments you're making about the feature as a feature make sense. |
| 02:26 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: it isn't? |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | It's not. |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | Autocompletion, when wrong, requires you to delete things. |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | This is emphatically not the case here. |
| 02:27 | <@gnolam> | So the autocompletion feature in, say, OpenOffice isn't autocompletion? |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | I have to delete shit in OO.o all the fucking time. |
| 02:28 | <@gnolam> | I can't think of anything that autocompletes /and autoaccepts/ the completion. |
| 02:28 | <@McMartin> | Reversion of capital letters, mainly |
| 02:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | (incidentally, if you are using Opera, you're looking for User Prefs -> Address bar content search to turn it off~) |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | I admit you could if you wanted fold that under a different thing, like AutoFormat |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | However, those autocompleters offer one possibility, and hitting "enter" enforces it. |
| 02:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I generally consider that to be autoreplace, not autocomplete. |
| 02:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | With autocomplete, it's "is this the rest of what you were typing?" |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | In FF, at least, hitting enter without selecting from a menu sends what you've typed as a request. |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | With autoreplace, it's "oh, that was wrong, I'll just go back and fix it for you, no need to thank m- what are you doing with that chainsaw AUGH NO" |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | While typing, say, "news.google.com*enter*" does not send me to news.google.com/article/etc |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | Also, because space is autocomplete acceptance, which is extremely annoying when you *wanted* to say "Bob and Jane were wed last week", not "Bob and Jane were Wednesday last week" |
| 02:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is why, if leaving autocomplete on, I remap it to tab. |
| 02:31 | <@McMartin> | Which works great until you fire up the spreadsheet |
| 02:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which I have yet to do, so~ |
| 02:32 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, neither of these things is a mutating combo box; it's closer to MSVC's Intellisense stuff than anything else, and that requires explicit enabling gestures that are Not Part Of Standard Interaction. |
| 02:32 | <@McMartin> | Ergo, I say it is not autocomplete, and cannot understand why additional options therein is a flaw of any kind. |
| 02:32 | <@gnolam> | What TF said. Autoreplacement != Autocompletion. |
| 02:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | What Opera and FF do is neither, though. |
| 02:32 | <@McMartin> | Other than "my hardwired reflexes for blind menu navigation no longer behave as I expect" |
| 02:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | You type stuff in, it doesn't mess with it but you can use up/down to switch between what you typed and guessed alternatives and completions. |
| 02:36 | <@McMartin> | I'm still a little unclear on the interaction pattern this breaks. |
| 02:36 | <@McMartin> | "blind menu navigation" is, after all, intentionally a strawman |
| 02:36 | <@gnolam> | Autocompletion of something you actually type VS autocompletion of what you type + possibly unrelated metadata. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Except it is not autocompletion |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | And that's not an interaction pattern. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you type in "news" and press enter, that's what it tries to load; it doesn't randomly pick the first search result and go to that instead. |
| 02:37 | | * gnolam headdesks. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can think of two legitimate complaints against this feature, but neither of them seem to be what you're railing against |
| 02:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, no, three |
| 02:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | To wit: |
| 02:38 | <@McMartin> | I guess it might be embarrassing if your entire porn browsing history came up while typing in girlscouts.org or whatnot |
| 02:38 | <@McMartin> | (four!) |
| 02:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | (1) I can no longer type in "n e down enter" without seeing what I'm doing and end up at news.google.com (a behaviour that isn't guaranteed with the old behaviour, either) |
| 02:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2) searching my entire history is a noticeable performance hit for a feature I never use (actually true on one of my machines) |
| 02:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | (3) the search ordering is stupid, so that typing in "news" gets me CNN articles I viewed four years ago and "news.google.com" is result #53 in the list |
| 02:39 | <@Derakon> | (Which it mostly isn't) |
| 02:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | And (4) is as McM said. |
| 02:40 | <@McMartin> | (4) is an entirely different user error made more blatant~ |
| 02:40 | <@gnolam> | And again, it doesn't have to autoaccept to qualify as autocompletion. |
| 02:41 | <@McMartin> | That doesn't mean it still isn't. |
| 02:41 | <@McMartin> | Unless every combobox widget everywhere is "autocompletion". |
| 02:41 | <@McMartin> | Or unless bookmarks themselves are. |
| 02:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | And you still haven't made any complaints apart from "it's different and I don't like it". Why don't you like it? |
| 02:41 | <@McMartin> | You still aren't clear as to what exactly is wrong with the behavior. |
| 02:42 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. There's a not-very-hidden assumption here that there is only one possible thing to put beneath an address bar while typing in it, and this is laughable on its face. |
| 02:44 | <@Derakon> | Oooh, fun bug. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680 |
| 02:44 | <@McMartin> | "it's giving the wrong answer" implies a right answer, and that's at best debatable. |
| 02:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also raises the question of what you consider "wrong"; if "wrong" is "my favorite site starting with 'news' isn't the first result when I type that in", see "not guaranteed by a plain address bar either" |
| 02:47 | <@Derakon> | Incidentally, as a web developer, I dearly love being able to type "local <foo>" to go to any page on my local site without having to type out "localhost/bar/baz/quux/foo". |
| 03:00 | | * Vornotron got pissed off at Safari when it updated |
| 03:01 | < Vornotron> | It now puts unspeakablevorn.livejournal.com at the top of the "uns" list, when I never visit it intentionally. |
| 03:02 | < Vornotron> | (I want unspeakablevorn.livejournal.com/friends) |
| 03:02 | <@Derakon> | In FF3 you could probably type "friend" and get that link on the top. |
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| 04:23 | | gnolam [lenin@79.136.60.ns-4387] has quit [Quit: Morning has broken] |
| 04:30 | <@Derakon> | Hrm...it is a bit irritating that I have to make 9 DB queries to get the current game state. |
| 04:33 | < Vornotron> | You need a lot of queries for things like that |
| 04:33 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, Perl. |
| 04:33 | <@Derakon> | $sql .= join(',', map("?", keys %$states)); |
| 04:34 | <@Derakon> | And then map({$sth->bind_param($i++, $_)} keys %$states); |
| 04:35 | <@Derakon> | (I'm not certain that does what I want...I'm just writing the function ATM, and I'll debug it once it's done. But those two lines should make a string "?,?,?,?,?" etc. with one '?' for each state, and then bind the state IDs in for each '?' in the $sql string) |
| 04:59 | | * Derakon writes a Perl->JSON serializer. |
| 05:04 | <@jerith> | Are you serialising perl code to JSON? |
| 05:04 | <@Derakon> | I'm serializing Perl data objects. |
| 05:04 | <@Derakon> | Perl code would be a much trickier prospect. |
| 05:04 | <@jerith> | Ah. That makes slightly more sense. |
| 05:23 | < Vornotron> | Der: you'd think that sort of thing would already be in cpan |
| 05:24 | <@Derakon> | Vorn: very likely, but it took less time to write than it would have to find, download, install, and learn to use~ |
| 05:24 | <@Derakon> | I only have three datatypes to work with here: scalar, array, and hash. |
| 05:43 | <@Derakon> | "Error: There is no game with the name [object HTMLDivElement]" |
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| 05:59 | <@Derakon> | Okay...could someone please take a look at http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/wh/map2.html and help me figure out why the line "document.getElementById('joinMapName').value" is returning "[object HTMLDivElement]" every time? |
| 05:59 | <@Derakon> | It's an input element, not a div. And it definitely has a unique ID. |
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| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I now see what gnolam meant about FF3 and self-signed certificates. |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: I would like to configure my router now. Opera? |
| 17:21 | <@Derakon> | You can improve the behavior a bit (to where the hidden "I know what I'm doing" div is always unhidden and the cert is retrieved automatically) with some fooling in about:config. |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | OPERA: Sorry, I'm wedged on a buggy sshfs mount and you won't realize this for another five minutes. |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: Ok. Firefox? |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | FIREFOX: YOU ARE ENTERING THE ASSHOLE OF THE GREAT SATAN. ABANDON EVERY HOPE, YE THAT ENTER. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | After getting it to connect, it then worked for a few pages and then stopped working. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Complaining that the certificate has the same serial number as, er, the certificate. |
| 17:23 | <@Derakon> | That sounds unrelated. |
| 17:23 | <@Derakon> | ...oh. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | And that the certificate authority should issue a new one. |
| 17:28 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, yes. Set browser.xul.error_pages.expert_bad_cert to true and browser.ssl_override_behaviour to 2. |
| 17:29 | <@Derakon> | The former unhides the div; the latter prefetches the cert. |
| 17:29 | <@Derakon> | So you go from four clicks to two. |
| 17:29 | <@Derakon> | (I'm not saying this is ideal, but it's a heck of a lot better than the default) |
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| 18:00 | | * Consul sets off to find a Linux proggy that can decode Nikon raw image format... |
| 18:02 | <@Consul> | It would be great if the GIMP could read them directly... |
| 18:03 | <@Derakon> | There might be a decoder for ImageMagick to work with them, though I didn't get it with my compile. |
| 18:05 | <@Consul> | There appears to be a GIMP plugin called ufraw which can do the trick. I'll see if I can give it a go. |
| 18:05 | <@Consul> | And as luck would have it, it's available in the Fedora repos. |
| 18:07 | <@gnolam> | Derakon: the standard command line tool for it is dcraw. |
| 18:10 | <@Consul> | I'm hoping that the 12-bits-per-pixel dynamic range of the raw format over jpeg's 8-bits will help out in the jewelry photography stuff I'm doing. |
| 18:10 | <@Consul> | That, and I'd like to shoot in a lossless format. |
| 18:10 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Nightstar-24851.acanac.net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 18:10 | <@Consul> | I should clarify: that's 12 bits per pixel per color channel. |
| 18:11 | <@Consul> | These photos are also destined for CMYK printing. |
| 18:13 | <@Consul> | The good news is, I should be able to turn the raws right over to our graphic designer and printer lady. |
| 18:13 | <@Consul> | So I need raw capability only to check the photos and sort out the good ones. |
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| 18:29 | <@Derakon> | Right! I can successfully create a game and then tell the API to join a game...now I have to write the Javascript code to interpret all the game data. |
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| 18:57 | <@gnolam> | Well, NEF isn't 100% lossless. But still. |
| 18:58 | <@gnolam> | (I consider post processing cheating, so I almost only shoot in JPEG, heh) |
| 18:59 | <@Derakon> | Cameras are demonstrably not as accurate as the human eye is. |
| 18:59 | <@Derakon> | So some degree of post-processing can actually make the image more accurate (so long as you trust the person doing the postprocessing). |
| 19:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | JPEG isn't lossless either. |
| 19:02 | <@Derakon> | Yyyyep. |
| 19:04 | <@gnolam> | Nobody claimed it was. |
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| 19:14 | <@gnolam> | Wait... |
| 19:14 | <@gnolam> | You said this was for CMYK printing? And you are going to use the GIMP? |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | Read my sentence again. |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | I only need a way to preview and puck out the best images. |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | As it turns out, Ufraw does this fine standalone. |
| 19:35 | <@Consul> | Tnen the raws themselves get shuffled off to the lady doing the catalog design. |
| 19:36 | <@Consul> | err, pick out |
| 19:36 | <@gnolam> | Ahh. |
| 19:37 | <@Consul> | Yeah, turns out that GIMP still can't do anything beyond 8 bits per channel. |
| 19:39 | | * Consul waits a half-hour for his honey-water to cool down so he can get the mead going. |
| 19:47 | <@gnolam> | Mead. \o/ |
| 19:48 | <@Consul> | It's a basic recipe, takes about four or so months to mature, 3 to be decent, 2 to be drinkable. |
| 19:48 | < GeekSoldier> | I take it that the process in similar to that for beer, except without grains and hops? |
| 19:48 | <@gnolam> | It's a shame my pet beekeeper had a hive collapse. |
| 19:48 | <@Consul> | GeekSoldier: Actually, no, beer is a very different process that requires boiling. The mead only needs to be brought up to enough heat to dissolve the honey. |
| 19:49 | < GeekSoldier> | hmm. I brew beer at home, but I've never done mead. is taste primary dependant on honey quality and yeast-type? |
| 19:49 | <@Consul> | It's as complex as making wine. |
| 19:49 | <@Consul> | So many factors go into it. |
| 19:50 | <@Consul> | But yes, quality honey will make the biggest difference, I'll bet. |
| 19:50 | <@gnolam> | I agree. |
| 19:50 | <@Consul> | I buy stuff from the store. I'm not experienced enough to be a snob. :-) |
| 19:50 | <@gnolam> | But unlike traditional beer, even traditional meads are often spiced. |
| 19:50 | <@Consul> | I made a pineapple melomel (a fruit mead, basically) that was pretty darned good. Took a year of aging, though. |
| 19:51 | < GeekSoldier> | interesting. I guess that's what I like about beer; you could get a decent batch in about a month. |
| 19:52 | <@Consul> | Well, it is wine, when it comes down to it. |
| 19:52 | <@gnolam> | But making beer yourself is easy. Making /good/ beer yourself is hard. :) |
| 19:53 | <@gnolam> | But most people manage a drinkable mead the first time. |
| 19:53 | <@Consul> | The key there is to not be stupid like I was and try making stouts the first time out. |
| 19:53 | <@Consul> | Start with a light or an amber. |
| 19:53 | < GeekSoldier> | I made a decent pilsner my first batch. |
| 19:54 | <@Consul> | Myself, I really like wheat beers. |
| 19:54 | <@Consul> | So if I try beer again, that's what I might try next. |
| 19:54 | <@Consul> | My other problem is, I only have enough gear to make 1 gallon batches. |
| 19:54 | <@Consul> | Which is fine by me, really. |
| 19:54 | <@Consul> | But the recipes don't always scale well. |
| 19:55 | <@Consul> | And everything is sold in the shops assuming five-gallon batches. |
| 19:55 | < GeekSoldier> | yikes. I'm limited to 2 gallon batches at the moment, and I go through those quickly. |
| 19:55 | | * gnolam has enough to make 3 x 25 l of wine/beer/mead at any given time. ^-^ |
| 19:56 | <@gnolam> | Brewing equipment is surprisingly cheap. |
| 19:56 | < GeekSoldier> | I'm going to purchase a couple 5 gallon buckets soon. |
| 19:57 | <@Consul> | My biggest problem is space. |
| 19:57 | <@Consul> | I don't have the room to store five gallons of beer in bottles. Also, the Grolsch-style bottles I like are pricey. I have 24 of them. |
| 19:57 | < GeekSoldier> | Me too. fortunately, I have a pantry area that is beneath the stairs and stays a pretty good temperature. |
| 19:57 | < GeekSoldier> | I saved a bunch of those from when I was in Germany. |
| 19:59 | <@gnolam> | I should weasel out the recipe Patya used on the choir's last tour. That ale was awesome. |
| 19:59 | <@gnolam> | Packing priorities: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/RAG/STORK2008/DSC_0028.JPG |
| 20:01 | < GeekSoldier> | sweet. |
| 20:02 | <@gnolam> | Best of all: the place we were staying at - a school - had strict rules prohibiting any alcohol in the building. So we /had/ to drink it all on the bus on the way up! ;D |
| 20:03 | < Vornotron> | Heeeee. |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | This network does not yet have a #beer. |
| 20:04 | < Vornotron> | Obviously you must remedy this. |
| 20:04 | <@Consul> | How about #homebrewing ? |
| 20:04 | <@jerith> | The network now has a #beer. |
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| 22:51 | <@Consul> | Does anyone know how to get Open Office Calc to create a function from a scatterplot curve? |
| 22:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not a clue, sorry! |
| 22:52 | <@gnolam> | I'd start looking in Scilab or something similar instead. |
| 22:52 | <@Consul> | I don't have time. |
| 22:52 | <@Consul> | This is for a physics lab. |
| 22:52 | <@gnolam> | I've started hating OpenOffice with a /passion/. |
| 22:52 | <@Consul> | I just need to extrapolate the curve at one point. |
| 22:53 | <@gnolam> | Do it manually (least squares etc)? |
| 22:53 | <@Consul> | I don't know how. |
| 22:53 | <@Consul> | I haven't gotten that far in linear algebra yet. |
| 22:54 | <@Consul> | Or whatever the math is. |
| 22:54 | <@Consul> | I'm also lazy. |
| 22:57 | <@Consul> | OO.o is apparently incapable of curve-fitting. |
| 22:57 | <@Consul> | Big fat freaking surprise. |
| 22:58 | <@gnolam> | Yeah, it's linear algebra. |
| 22:58 | | * gnolam chalks up another FAIL for OpenOffice. |
| 22:58 | <@Consul> | Okay, it says there's an exponential regression available, but I can't find it. |
| 22:58 | <@Consul> | It always keeps picking linear. |
| 23:00 | <@Consul> | Blargh. |
| 23:01 | <@Consul> | I can't get it to switch to anything other than linear. |
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| 23:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| --- Log closed Mon Nov 10 00:00:25 2008 |