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code logs -> 2008 -> Sun, 03 Aug 2008< code.20080802.log - code.20080804.log >
--- Log opened Sun Aug 03 00:00:31 2008
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21:13
<@Derakon>
I got a basic version of my topographical-map-by-commute-time script written. Check this out: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/topomap1.png
21:17
< Vornicus>
shiny.
21:17
< Shoukanjuu>
Fun.
21:19
< Consul>
Spiffy.
21:19
<@Derakon>
(It's amazing how much easier it is to implement a quadtree the second time around, and in Perl instead of C++)
21:19
< Consul>
I actually took all that time to think of a third adjective.
21:19 * Derakon snickers.
21:20
< Consul>
You have no idea how much I wish I could build advanced software synthesizers in Python instead of C++.
21:20
<@Derakon>
But yeah, it takes as input a set of weighted edges, and produces as output an image like that, showing the edges and coloring regions based on how hard it is to get to the node nearest the center.
21:20
<@Derakon>
Heh.
21:24
< Consul>
Hell, I wonder if we could? We have Parallel Python for concurrency, and I've been told it works pretty well.
21:24
< Consul>
Then we could just write the inner loop stuff up in C.
21:25
<@McMartin>
That would certainly make the glue better.
21:25
< Consul>
Or Fortran, since its highly mathematical stuff.
21:25
< Consul>
:-)
21:25
<@McMartin>
The Python<->C layer is kind of full of spiders.
21:25
<@Derakon>
Heh.
21:25
<@Derakon>
Last time I looked into Python-C integration was four years ago.
21:25
<@Derakon>
I hope it's improved since then.
21:25
<@McMartin>
For some reason ISTR that Vorn has done it more recently.
21:25
< Vornicus>
I was poking at it, yes.
21:25
<@McMartin>
I never have; the closest I've gotten is typing make on projects that did it.
21:26
< Vornicus>
I determined that it's essentially waving a dead chicken.
21:26
< Consul>
Is there a better language than Python I could consider then? (Not better as in syntax or use, but in performance and integration.)
21:27
< Vornicus>
There's Lua.
21:27
< Consul>
Can Lua do custom GUIs and all that fun stuff?
21:27
<@McMartin>
I wouldn't recommend Lua here
21:27
< Vornicus>
Lua doesn't have much in the way of libs. It's got really good C integration though
21:27
<@McMartin>
Lua's schtick is that it is insanely easy to embed.
21:27
<@Derakon>
Lua integrates with C liek whoah, but that's its primary strength.
21:28
<@McMartin>
But here, the "app" is what they actually see, and that means Python.
21:28
< Consul>
Yeah, Lua might be what I'd use if I wanted a scripting language for a sampler. :-)
21:28
<@McMartin>
... how does Python mix with glade?
21:28
<@McMartin>
Speaking of GUIs
21:28
<@Derakon>
(Depending on how your app works, you could always write it as a webapp~)
21:28
<@McMartin>
(This is for a sound studio, so no)
21:28
< Consul>
McMartin: I've read articles about how it can, but I never found a good explanation, and never got it to work myself.
21:29
<@McMartin>
OK. My experience there is minimal (I've used Glade but not the libglade edition) because the most complicated GUI I've ever needed was a dialog box.
21:29
< Consul>
Supposedly, one can write Cairo widgets in Python, and get Glade to use them.
21:31
< Consul>
Because I'm sitting here thinking, "you know, if I could have used Python, this damned PresetManager class would've been done four days ago."
21:31
<@McMartin>
The GUI has no need to be real-time beyond a few hundred ms.
21:31
< Consul>
Indeed.
21:31
<@McMartin>
*absolutely* I recommend prototyping an architecture in something like Python.
21:31
<@McMartin>
Exploratory design is much harder in more rigid languages
21:31
<@McMartin>
But
21:32
<@McMartin>
You may want to lay off on seriously wacky things like reassigning methods inside specific instances and stuff.
21:32
< Consul>
But that eliminates my design goal of having a single executable sitting on the hard drive.
21:32
< Consul>
Of course, NI doesn't do that...
21:32
< Consul>
They code their engines as DLLs, and the GUIs are separate.
21:32
< Consul>
And I'd imagine preset loading and saving is part of the interface rather than the engine.
21:33
< Consul>
The engine just sits there and processes signals, audio and control.
21:34
< Consul>
Something to think about as I go mow the lawn. Thanks for letting me monologue. :-)
21:34
<@Derakon>
No prob.
21:34
<@McMartin>
The nature of applications these days means that "one file" is unnecessarily restrictive.
21:34
<@McMartin>
As long as it's "one directory that is self-contained and doesn't touch the registry or /usr/share" that's really all you need.
21:35
<@McMartin>
"Unzip this file, run this one from inside the resulting dir"
21:35
< Vornicus>
(though on Mac you get to pretend it's one file)
21:35
<@McMartin>
(Indeed, this is the core organizing principle of OS X apps)
21:35
<@McMartin>
Though I note Blorple is still a .jar file inside the .app directory.
21:36
<@McMartin>
Of course Part 2, .jar files are ZIPs.
21:36
<@Derakon>
Whee~
21:36
< Vornicus>
mmm, .zips
21:36
<@McMartin>
WinBlorple is an .exe that has the .jar in its data segment and then invokes the JRE on a subset of itself.
21:37
<@McMartin>
A technique I don't recommend in general, but it's the only way to get it to properly interact with Windows as a whole.
21:37
<@McMartin>
(And should you wish to do this yourself, Launch4j is the app to use for it)
21:45 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
21:49 Rico is now known as EvilDarkLord
22:00 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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22:05 * Consul is back, and has a popsicle.
22:07 * Vornicus gnargs
22:07
< Consul>
Anyway, we already have a lot of working C++ code already written.
22:07
< Consul>
Well, Anders does. I have yet to commit anything. This Preset Manager class was to be my first.
22:11
< Shoukanjuu>
How does one go about obtaining pure 'caffeine'
22:12
< Vornicus>
GNC and similar stores probably have it.
22:12
<@McMartin>
Shoukanjuu: Caffeine's LD50 is very low.
22:13
< Shoukanjuu>
I KNOw this.
22:13
< Shoukanjuu>
I was just wondering how one obtained caffeine to MAKE stuff
22:13
<@McMartin>
I suspect true, pure caffeine will require access to chemical suppliers, and maybe even licenses.
22:13
<@McMartin>
Coca-Cola extracts it themselves from coffee beans.
22:14
<@McMartin>
They then sell the beans as decaf beans to coffee makers.
22:14
< Shoukanjuu>
See, that helps
22:14 * McMartin misunderstood your question at first.
22:14
< Shoukanjuu>
I'd imagine
22:15
<@McMartin>
As "How can I, a consumer, get access to refined pure caffeine?"
22:15
< Shoukanjuu>
bwuahaha
22:16
< Shoukanjuu>
It's for a report my friend was doing for some class, I'd imagine chemistry
22:16 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
22:16
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, that's what he said, anyway
22:17
< Shoukanjuu>
and I thought that someone here wuld know
22:17
< Shoukanjuu>
I can imagine the majority of people here being good at trivial pursuit >___>
22:18
<@Derakon>
You could buy those caffeine shots I saw at the grocery and try to extract the caffeine from that.
22:18 Elizabeth is now known as AnnoDomini
22:18
<@Derakon>
One 1oz shot contained the equivalent of a large coffee.
22:18
<@McMartin>
Well, the context here is for how the manufacturers get it, or how their suppliers do.
22:19 * Derakon nods.
22:23
< Shoukanjuu>
I've got caffeinated gum, so I'm good
22:23 * McMartin has tea, and has been limiting his intake.
22:23 * Derakon has...milk? ¬.¬
22:23 * Shoukanjuu has aspartame!
22:27 * Consul has coffee.
22:27 * Vornicus is immune to caffeine.
22:27
< Consul>
I am as well. It affects me very little.
22:27
< Consul>
But I like coffee.
22:27
< Consul>
And tea.
22:28
<@McMartin>
I thought I was until I started regulating it again.
22:28
< Shoukanjuu>
caffeine affects e just enough to keep me up all night when I try to sleep
22:28
< Consul>
Heh
22:28
<@AnnoDomini>
e=e+c, where c is the caffeine constant?
22:29
< Shoukanjuu>
heh
22:29
< Consul>
c would have to be zero, then.
22:30
< Shoukanjuu>
That said, a single BAWLS has me shaking >.>
22:30
< Shoukanjuu>
So it affects me
22:30
< Shoukanjuu>
Everything goes so slow, it was mystifying
22:31
< Shoukanjuu>
never again XD;
22:31
<@McMartin>
Guarana is chemically slightly different from coffee's caffeine.
22:31
<@McMartin>
(As is tea's theophylline)
22:31
< Shoukanjuu>
yeah
22:31
< Consul>
As I understand it, they are all classed as mild meth-amphetamines.
22:32 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29180.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: "I like maxims that don't encourage behaviour modification."]
22:33
< Consul>
Was it something I said?
22:33 * Shoukanjuu spikes the punch with guarana
22:34
< Shoukanjuu>
Soul Calibur 4 reminds me of Starcraft.
22:34
< Shoukanjuu>
In that the computer does thinks it shouldn't be able to do :/
22:35
< Vornicus>
Cheating AI has been a problem for as long as there have been AI.
22:35
< Consul>
Blargh!
22:36
<@McMartin>
SC 1 and 2 were better about it, though.
22:36
<@McMartin>
3 had it for a few characters.
22:36
< Consul>
I did a Google search for "ruby jack" to look for integration of Jack with Ruby...
22:36 * Consul facepalms
22:36
<@McMartin>
Programming Language Rule 34?
22:36
< Shoukanjuu>
XD
22:36
< Vornicus>
Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald.
22:36
<@McMartin>
Heh.
22:37
<@McMartin>
Clearly the tea hasn't taken effect yet.
22:37
< Consul>
I actually knew that. I just mindlessly typed the search in.
22:37
<@McMartin>
Maybe "jack ruby sound interface"?
22:37
< Shoukanjuu>
why didn't you do a google search for ruby jack integration?
22:37
< Consul>
Yes, I refined it a bit.
22:37
< Consul>
I like to start with as few words as possible and add from there.
22:37
< Shoukanjuu>
>_
22:38
< Vornicus>
Ruby is Very Much Not The Language You Want for real time stuff.
22:38
< Consul>
Well, I gotta find something...
22:38
< Shoukanjuu>
I'm almost done with story mode --;
22:38
< Consul>
Ocaml is a possibility.
22:39
< Consul>
But learning a whole new language is kinda part of my problem in the first place.
22:39
<@McMartin>
OCaml is also designed around a wildly different programming paradigm.
22:39
<@McMartin>
In particular, by default you don't have variables.
22:40
< Consul>
I'm familiar with functional programming. I've played with FAUST.
22:40
< Consul>
Familiar, as in, "I know approximately what it is."
22:40
<@McMartin>
OCaml is also kind of ugly in a couple of other ways
22:40
<@McMartin>
Not least of which is 31-bit integers on most systems.
22:42
< Consul>
Yeah, that kinda put me off when I read it.
22:42
< Consul>
"So, I'm gonna need a workaround just to get regular numeric types?"
22:42
<@McMartin>
Well.
22:42
<@McMartin>
int is "an integer"
22:42
<@McMartin>
If you want an integer of a specific size, that's Int32, Int64, or nativeint.
22:43
<@McMartin>
I don't recall offhand if it does Bignums as part of its standard library.
22:43
< Consul>
There's some way to import and use C types. It was kinda weird.
22:43
<@McMartin>
Yeah, OCaml and C have decent integration, apparently.
22:43
<@McMartin>
I've seen the SDL bindings.
22:44
< Consul>
FFTW is written in Ocaml.
22:44
< Consul>
But they use it to generate C code. I don't know how that works.
22:45
<@McMartin>
A bunch of print statements.
22:45
<@McMartin>
Code generators are a time-honored tactic.
22:45
< Consul>
It's that simple, is it?
22:46
<@McMartin>
Well, you have to embed it in a shell script or something to pipe the results to a file and then to the compiler, but yeah.
22:46
<@McMartin>
Compilers eat text. Text editors make text, which is the usual way of getting it
22:46
<@McMartin>
But you can write a program to print out text, too.
22:54 * Consul is off to pick up a scanner found on the Freecycle list.
22:54
< Consul>
BBL
--- Log closed Mon Aug 04 00:00:41 2008
code logs -> 2008 -> Sun, 03 Aug 2008< code.20080802.log - code.20080804.log >
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