| --- Log opened Tue Jun 24 00:00:29 2008 |
| --- Day changed Tue Jun 24 2008 |
| 00:00 | < NSGuest-7122> | no, that was ages ago |
| 00:00 | < NSGuest-7122> | 19:03 -!- You're now known as Doctor_Nick [19:03] [Doctor_Nick(+ix)] [4:nightstar/#code(+Unrt)] [Act: 1,2,3] |
| 00:00 | < NSGuest-7122> | [#code] |
| 00:00 | < NSGuest-7122> | ugh |
| 00:08 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29270.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: (...) By this point, the astute reader has picked up that Nethack isn't a "game" as much as an extremely prolonged and extremely elaborate form of masochism. Ask any serious player.] |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | ARGH |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | Debian strikes again |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | Poor Ubuntu. It doesn't deserve this |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | (this time, it's multiple versions of libsdl, some of which cause UQM to hang, and the wrong one is installed by default) |
| 00:10 | < NSGuest-7122> | gg |
| 00:11 | <@McMartin> | You need libsdl1.2debian-all. |
| 00:11 | <@McMartin> | I'm sure the space saved by having a broken subset installed was totally worth it. |
| 00:29 | <@Kazriko> | Thought about requiring all of the proper libs in the uqm .deb, or writing directions on getting all the right libs installed for the |
| 00:29 | <@Kazriko> | tgz? |
| 00:29 | | * Kazriko wanders off to take a nap |
| 00:29 | < Vornicus> | I don't think UQM maintains its own .deb. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | We don't. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | Nor do we maintain the .rpm or the ebuild or the etc. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | We maintain the countent files, and teh source tgz, and the OS X DMG, and teh Win32 installer. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | And I cannot spell right when the lag is high. |
| 00:34 | <@McMartin> | Also, there's a Yehat remix out, to my great shock. |
| 00:34 | <@McMartin> | That means we're only one short from Remix Pack 4 and the Precursors project being done. |
| 00:34 | <@Kazriko> | McMartin, nod, talk to the maintainer of the package then, sounds like he's not quite doing his job there, heh |
| 00:35 | < Vornicus> | The UQM deb package has been epically broken in many different ways. |
| 00:36 | <@Kazriko> | do the ubuntu MOTU have their own package? |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | They don't, though they were talking about it, due to said epic fail |
| 00:37 | <@Kazriko> | Yay. :) |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | And they actually shouldn't fix the biggest epic fail because the next minor release won't trigger the same problem. |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | They were repackaging the content so that the game was mistaking the core content for per-user config data. |
| 00:38 | <@Kazriko> | due to extreme laziness on the deb maint's part... |
| 00:38 | <@Kazriko> | not putting the files back as you found them... ugh |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | This is one of a variety of reasons I'm a Fedora partisan. =/ |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | Though I actually haven't tried its .rpm, since I'm always knee-deep in teh SVN tree |
| 00:40 | <@Kazriko> | heh. I've hated redhat based things since 1998, |
| 00:41 | <@Kazriko> | i installed one computer LFS to avoid redhat |
| 00:41 | <@McMartin> | They didn't start Meaning It until about Fedora 5. |
| 00:41 | <@Kazriko> | Ahh |
| 00:42 | <@Kazriko> | I have one Fedora Core 7 system at work |
| 00:42 | <@Kazriko> | for the Sun SGD server, stupid thing doesn't work with Core 8 |
| 00:42 | <@McMartin> | Weird. |
| 00:43 | <@McMartin> | yum occasionally trips over itself on my x86_64 system, but that's because it's mixing 74- and 32-bit code and sometimes flubs upgrades. |
| 00:43 | <@Kazriko> | its support list is very specific |
| 00:43 | <@McMartin> | Usually because the install procedure put in 32-bit versions it shouldn't have. |
| 00:44 | <@Kazriko> | fedora core 7, or this one specific version of suse (no opensuse), or one specific version of redhat enterprise, or just about every solaris ever made |
| 00:44 | <@McMartin> | Wait, is this a 32-bit SPARC? |
| 00:44 | <@Kazriko> | no |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | I remember a guy being forced to roll an LFS for that because *nothing* supported it he could use |
| 00:45 | <@Kazriko> | intel x86 under KVM |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | Aha, huh. |
| 00:45 | <@Kazriko> | the LFS was because i didn't want to use redhat and my coadmin didn't want debian or slackware |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | I haven't messed with Slack since the 1.x kernel. |
| 00:49 | <@Kazriko> | heh. It's tolerable, I still use it for bootstrapping the uclinux systems |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | Gentoo is awesome as long as you never upgrade a major version of anything. >_< |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | And never change your configuration options. |
| 00:49 | <@Kazriko> | heh |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | And only use stuff that happens to play together well. |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | etc., etc. |
| 00:50 | <@McMartin> | The second time a GNOME or x-11 upgrade broke every package on my system which it then refused to recompile due to package blocks was when I started shopping for new distros. |
| 00:51 | <@Kazriko> | gentoo is ok if you don't really need your computer to work all the time, and can stand downtime to recompile everything |
| 00:51 | <@McMartin> | And if you know the systems inside and out to make it do what you want. |
| 00:52 | <@Kazriko> | nod |
| 00:52 | <@McMartin> | When I tried out... I think it was Fedora Core 5 at the time... and found that you can in fact right-click an .iso to burn, I basically never looked back. |
| 00:52 | <@McMartin> | God only knows what USE option and which packages I needed to make Gentoo do that, or if I'd have to write a config by hand and then hand-merge it on every upgrade. |
| 00:52 | <@Kazriko> | that's a bonus. :) |
| 00:53 | <@Kazriko> | i always wanted to try automating LFS, but gentoo is essentially that |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | So is Sorcery, and there's one other one too whose name escapes me |
| 00:54 | <@McMartin> | UQM uses its own build system that is not configure && make && make install and so all of them come and yell at us whenever they try to package it. =P |
| 00:54 | | * Kazriko got bored with the project when he heard of gentoo |
| 00:54 | <@Kazriko> | heh |
| 00:56 | <@Kazriko> | http://www.uclinux.org/ucsimm/ << they need to update this with an arm chip... |
| 00:56 | | * Vornicus was impressed with the ottd source package; type "make" on a mac and it'd make you a complete .dmg |
| 00:57 | | * McMartin typically just uses the Disk Utility to make his. |
| 00:57 | < Vornicus> | yeah, but, it impressed me. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | I wish I could figure out how people produce background text and images in the Disk Image. |
| 00:57 | | * Vornicus knows how, approximately. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Oh? |
| 00:58 | | Kazriko [~kaz@Nightstar-26352.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net] has left #code [Leaving] |
| 00:58 | < Vornicus> | yeah, let me see if I can find it again. |
| 00:58 | | Kazriko [~kaz@Nightstar-26352.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net] has joined #code |
| 00:58 | | mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by ChanServ |
| 00:58 | <@Kazriko> | oops |
| 00:58 | <@Kazriko> | https://shop.arcturusnetworks.com/ |
| 00:59 | <@Kazriko> | they went freescale instead of arm, looks like |
| 01:01 | | * Kazriko still wants to build his own circuit board for these things sometime... |
| 01:02 | < Vornicus> | okay, here we go. |
| 01:02 | < Vornicus> | Open the folder in Finder. |
| 01:02 | < Vornicus> | Choose the icon view |
| 01:02 | < Vornicus> | View -> Show View Options |
| 01:03 | < Vornicus> | Background -> Picture -> Select... |
| 01:03 | <@McMartin> | Aha, w00t. |
| 01:05 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-19083.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:30 | | Mojo1978 [~Mojo1978@Nightstar-18420.hsi.ish.de] has quit [User has been banned] |
| 03:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Re: other source-based distro whose name escapes you: I can think of both Sourcemage and Lunar |
| 03:03 | <@McMartin> | I believe Lunar was the one I was thinking of. |
| 03:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Of these I am very much a fan of Lunar, as it comes closest by far to Doing It Right of the ones I've tried, but it's still in alpha (beta?) and has more hand-configuration than I enjoy still. |
| 03:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | So for now I use it on custom appliances but not on my daily-use systems |
| 03:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | In particular, it's far less likely to just totally break, there are better tools for recovering if it does, USE-equivalents are per package rather than per system (for the most part; stuff like default optimization settings are system-wide), can be configured interactively at package install time, and default to "everything you already have the dependencies for ON, everything else OFF" |
| 03:24 | < NSGuest-7122> | which one comes with frozen bubble |
| 03:24 | < NSGuest-7122> | i like that one |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Frozen bubble? |
| 03:35 | < NSGuest-7122> | the puzzle bobble clone |
| 03:36 | <@McMartin> | That's likely to be all major ones. |
| 04:23 | <@McMartin> | Sigh |
| 04:23 | <@McMartin> | OK, apparently there's a distro called GoboLinux |
| 04:23 | <@McMartin> | They *also* break the directory structure in UQM, to the point that it doesn't run. |
| 04:23 | <@McMartin> | gg, people. Do you even test your work? |
| 04:24 | <@McMartin> | Though, apparently, GoboLinux is designed around breaking the filesystem in the first place~ |
| 05:53 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.9.59.ns-21252] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 07:53 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-27817.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 07:53 | | mode/#code [+o UndeadAnno] by ChanServ |
| 08:39 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:41 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 10:37 | < NSGuest-7122> | did bruce perens have a stroke or something |
| 11:10 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.9.59.ns-21252] has joined #code |
| 11:10 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 11:37 | | * UndeadAnno points and laughs at NSGuest-7122. And NSGuest-7110. |
| 12:13 | | Attilla_ [~The.Attil@92.9.59.ns-21252] has joined #code |
| 12:14 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.9.59.ns-21252] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:17 | | Attilla_ is now known as Attilla |
| 13:03 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-19083.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #Code |
| 13:03 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 16:55 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
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| 16:57 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 17:18 | | ErikMesoy [~ejm@Nightstar-876.bb.online.no] has joined #Code |
| 17:19 | <@Reiver> | ErikMesoy, meet ToxicFrog. ToxicFrog, meet ErikMesoy. |
| 17:19 | < ErikMesoy> | Hello. |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yo. |
| 17:19 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm not sure how much you know. In short, Reiver kept monologuing about TA after I brought up StarCraft, so I asked him to put up or shut up. ;) |
| 17:20 | | * Reiver coughs politely, goes to bed~ |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | 'night, Reiv. |
| 17:20 | < ErikMesoy> | Good night. |
| 17:20 | <@Reiver> | (Don't worry, TF knows all about my monologuing tendancies. ¬¬) |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, this could take a while, but you'll get the files eventually. |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes, TA is well worth monologuing about~ |
| 17:22 | < Shoukanjuu> | You know, in my day |
| 17:22 | | * Shoukanjuu stares into nothingness and says nothing more |
| 17:22 | < ErikMesoy> | Okay. So far I downloaded "TA Modular [mininova].torrent", which came out as 53.1KB, then opened that with my BT client. |
| 17:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | (short form: storyline and characterization not nearly as good as *Craft; plot in general is competent but uninspiring, and kind of thin on the ground; gameplay, however, is overwhelmingly superior and the gold standard for RTSes.) |
| 17:23 | < ErikMesoy> | Shrtfrm: Publicity issues? |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. Cavedog is a small developer and it was released pretty much at the same time as Starcraft. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unwise. |
| 17:23 | <@Reiver> | Guess which game went on to all-but-define the genre~ |
| 17:24 | < ErikMesoy> | Anyway. The BT client has been running for several minutes and downloaded nothing, but it's created a TA folder with the 0-byte .rar files listed in the readme that Reiv pasted. |
| 17:24 | < ErikMesoy> | Go to bed, Reiv. |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reiver: that would be Dune 2, published by Westwood several years prior~ |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm |
| 17:24 | <@Reiver> | Yeah, yeah~ |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can see someone on the torrent, using uTorrent from Argentina |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | that's not you? |
| 17:24 | <@Reiver> | Nein. |
| 17:24 | < ErikMesoy> | Err, I don't think so. I'm in Norway. |
| 17:24 | <@Reiver> | You're just that popular~ |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | What client are you using? |
| 17:26 | < ErikMesoy> | gnome-btdownload, I think. |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Are you sure that supports multitracker torrents? |
| 17:26 | < ErikMesoy> | I don't know. |
| 17:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 17:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | The torrent uses four trackers, and not all of them are guaranteed to be up. |
| 17:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know at least one of them is, since it's working for me. |
| 17:28 | | * ToxicFrog checks |
| 17:28 | < ErikMesoy> | Okay. Assuming that my problem is that gnome-btdownload has problems with multiple trackers, should I be trying to cancel and restart it until it gets an "up" tracker? |
| 17:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Depends. It might just always choose the first tracker in the torrent file or something. |
| 17:30 | < ErikMesoy> | Then perhaps I should try installing uTorrent on my other computer and downloading it there. |
| 17:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or use something like ktorrent |
| 17:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | gnome-btdownload is a fairly bare-bones client |
| 17:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Haven't got ktorrent on this lappy, can't install it because of technological incompetencies. >.< |
| 17:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, you're running linux, yes? What distro? |
| 17:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Ubuntu. |
| 17:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Applications->Add/Remove |
| 17:31 | < ErikMesoy> | I know how. |
| 17:32 | < ErikMesoy> | However, this is a five-year-old distro that came with Firefox 1.0.7, and the partition it's on is too small to upgrade the distro, and Add/Remove always complains to me that I need to upgrade the distro first to use it properly. |
| 17:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 17:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | you might try 'sudo apt-get install ktorrent' in the terminal, but no promises. |
| 17:33 | < ErikMesoy> | Like I said, technological incompetence. On my part, in case that wasn't clear. |
| 17:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | (there's also other options, like deluge-torrent, transmission, qtorrent, rtorrent, and whatnot) |
| 17:34 | < ErikMesoy> | "breezy-backports/universe ktorrent 1.1-1~breezy1 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.31 80]" |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | If I had to guess, I'd guess that means it either can't find its package repository (version of ubuntu no longer supported?) or the repo doesn't have ktorrent available. |
| 17:35 | < ErikMesoy> | Version not supported is my guess too. |
| 17:35 | < ErikMesoy> | Judging by the moaning of Add/Remove that I need to upgrade the distro. |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, short term, using uTorrent on your other system is probably the way to go. |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Long term, you might want to consider resizing that partition and upgrading. |
| 17:36 | < ErikMesoy> | I have considered it. I have not found any tools that I have managed to do this with. |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | gparted. |
| 17:36 | < ErikMesoy> | Tried that. Rendered my machine incapable of booting for a week. |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Available in most liveCDs, and has a liveCD of its own specifically for running it. |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | What did you do with it? |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've used it a lot and never had any problems that weren't of my own devising (eg, changing all the partition numbers without telling the bootloader) |
| 17:37 | < ErikMesoy> | Tried to downsize the Windows partition by 2GB and upsize the Ubuntu partition by the same amount. |
| 17:37 | < ErikMesoy> | Unused, they respectively have 10GB and 340MB at present. |
| 17:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | That sounds reasonable. |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I can't offhand think of any reason why it wouldn't work. |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | What were the symptoms? |
| 17:38 | < ErikMesoy> | I forget exactly because it was about 18 months ago, but when I turned the computer on, it sort of stalled at one of the early BIOS screens and wouldn't advance. |
| 17:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Since then I've tried a couple of other partition managers, and sort of resigned myself to ugly hacks a lot. |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Might be worth trying gparted again - it's possible you ran into a problem in an earlier version. |
| 17:40 | < ErikMesoy> | I still have the same version as back then, because I can't upgrade it until I upgrade my distro, which I can't do until I get more partition space, which I can't... :P |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | (alternately, if you have an old BIOS, it's possible you ended up moving parts of the bootloader or the partition boundaries outside the regions it can access while bootstrapping) |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but that's what the liveCDs are for. |
| 17:40 | < ErikMesoy> | Oh. *facepalm* |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...indeed, you would want to boot from a liveCD for partition editing anyways |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since you can't safely resize the partition the OS is running on |
| 17:40 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. The other computer has Frostwire. Does that support multi-tracker torrents? |
| 17:41 | < ErikMesoy> | I hadn't even considered using gParted from a liveCD for some reason. That would explain how I managed to break the computer a bit, too. |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | No idea, never heard of it. worth trying. |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, my suggestion would be to download a liveCD of an up to day ubuntu (or other distro, if you feel like switching), boot from that, do any resizing necessary and use it for the upgrade/reinstall right from the CD. |
| 17:44 | < ErikMesoy> | Frostwire is going "Locating sources". Hmm. |
| 17:47 | < ErikMesoy> | Meh. Going over to uTorrent now. |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm off to lunch, back shortly. Good luck. |
| 17:48 | < ErikMesoy> | "Download speed: 0.9 kB/s. ETA: 1w 3d." :P Well, it's better than nothing. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't have much upstream, and it's split between five people. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | but it'll get there eventually. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it'll pick up as some of the other torrents I'm seeding drop off, too. |
| 17:54 | < ErikMesoy> | What's normal upload politeness here? |
| 17:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | "upload politeness"? |
| 17:54 | < Vornicus-Latens> | I find your speed goes up a lot once you have a piece. |
| 17:55 | < ErikMesoy> | How much to leave the torrent on and upload to other people once downloading is complete? |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: in this case, I'm the only seed, and there's only three peers total. |
| 17:55 | < ErikMesoy> | I usually upload about 150% by data volume of what I've downloaded on TPB. |
| 17:55 | < Vornicus-Latens> | ah |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. That sounds reasonable. |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Typically, it's "at least to 1.0, or until your efforts are obviously unecessary" |
| 17:56 | | * Vornicus-Latens usually does about that too. But sometimesit's literally impossible to get there; too many seeds already. |
| 17:56 | < ErikMesoy> | Yay, download speed is up to 1.2kB/s and ETA is down to 1w 1d. ;) |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not going to sit around waiting for it to hit 1.0 when the torrent has 500 seeds and 4 leeches. |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially when that bandwidth could be better spent on torrents with 4 seeds and 500 leeches. |
| 17:58 | < Shoukanjuu> | I keep mine at a steady 1.75 |
| 17:58 | < Shoukanjuu> | Mostly becasue I leave most of my stuff on and pass out, resulted in 10:1 ratios @_x |
| 17:59 | < Shoukanjuu> | My, I can't type this morning...afternoon...whatever |
| 17:59 | < ErikMesoy> | I declare it to be afternoon. |
| 17:59 | < ErikMesoy> | I like afternoons. |
| 18:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | oooh, stalled |
| 18:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | nose plent ;_; |
| 18:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | plant* |
| 18:05 | < ErikMesoy> | What? |
| 18:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | Ace Combat 6 >_> |
| 18:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | I stalled on a bombing run and planted my nose on the ground as I tried to correct |
| 18:14 | < ErikMesoy> | I appear to have 8 pieces and a ratio of 0.323 so far. |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've uploaded 3.8MB! |
| 18:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | It'd be nice if I could tell ktorrent to give this torrent higher priority. |
| 18:20 | | ErikMesoy is now known as Mariusz |
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| 18:50 | <@C_tiger> | uTorrent lets you do that. |
| 18:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but utorrent is also windows only. |
| 18:51 | <@C_tiger> | Oh... I totally thought it was crossplatform. |
| 18:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nooope. |
| 18:51 | < Mariusz> | What does "seeds 1(1), peers 1(2)" mean in utorrent? |
| 18:51 | <@C_tiger> | you're connected to 1 of 1 total. |
| 18:51 | <@C_tiger> | or one of 2 total, for peers. |
| 18:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is one reason I'm so very annoyed that it's now the "official" bittorrent client. |
| 18:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's gone from an open source, multiplatform, but feature-light client to a one-platform, closed-source one. |
| 18:52 | <@C_tiger> | It's pretty sweet though. |
| 18:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | At least with the former other people could take it apart and see how it works to make their own implementations. |
| 18:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is, and looked at solely as a client I disagree with the developers' release approach but completely agree with the resulting software. |
| 18:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | My objection is with making it the official, reference client. |
| 18:53 | < Mariusz> | I swear utorrent is cursed. |
| 18:53 | < Mariusz> | Whenever I look at it, the download speed falls. |
| 18:53 | < Mariusz> | Whenever I go away and come back, it's gone up again. |
| 18:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | I generally don't pay any attention to my torrents. |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | When they move from ~/torrents/buffer to ~/torrents/complete, they're done. |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Beyond that I don't concern myself with them. |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | I check the client once every few days to see if anything needs special attention, and that's it. |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mariusz: what happened? |
| 19:48 | < Mariusz> | What? |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ktorrent says you're gone. |
| 19:49 | < Mariusz> | Give me a minute and I'll check. |
| 19:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. You're still on the tracker, though...I guess you're getting the data from the other peer. |
| 19:51 | < Mariusz> | My sister went on the computer and plugged out the USB stick I was downloading to. >_> |
| 19:52 | < Mariusz> | uTorrent is still running. As soon as I've finished scolding her for plugging out USB sticks when there are still open ports, I'll try to continue it. |
| 19:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 19:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Don't forget to fsck. |
| 19:52 | < Mariusz> | What's that on Windows? |
| 19:52 | < Mariusz> | chdsk? |
| 19:53 | < Mariusz> | *chkdsk |
| 19:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah |
| 19:53 | <@UndeadAnno> | Scandisk? |
| 19:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Scandisk is the old win9x equivalent, IIRC. |
| 19:56 | < Mariusz> | Is it back now? |
| 19:57 | < Mariusz> | chkdsk reported no problems, so I tried to tell it to continue. |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep, you're back |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Interesting. It has a little padlock next to your IP in the peer list. I wonder what that means. |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Crypto-enabled, perhaps? |
| 19:59 | < Mariusz> | I don't know. Is there anything else you want to tell me? |
| 19:59 | < Mariusz> | I just realised that that sounded sarcastic. It wasn't. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nah, I'm just going to guess it means crypto, since I know that's supported by utorrent. |
| 20:02 | < Mariusz> | And how much has it downloaded so far? |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | You know that better than I do, but it says you have 1.20% of the torrent data. |
| 20:04 | < Mariusz> | Mmkay. I don't actually know it at present because now my sister is occupying that computer. I have my own laptop, so I can't exactly complain. ;) |
| 20:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 20:04 | | * ToxicFrog runs all his torrents on a control-from-anywhere server, which avoids this sort of resource contention ?? |
| 20:32 | | Flamer [~Cam_ev_a@85.100.26.ns-11561] has joined #code |
| 20:40 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Interesting. Network throughputs > ~5 MB/s result in audible RF interference. |
| 20:40 | <@gnolam> | Yet another reason to get a new computer. |
| 20:40 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Sweet. TEMPEST in a speaker. |
| 20:44 | <@gnolam> | It even sounds a bit like a tempest, heh. |
| 20:45 | | * gnolam is probably setting of the RWRs of passing Gripens with thos |
| 20:45 | <@gnolam> | *this computer. |
| 20:47 | <@gnolam> | Also, *off. |
| 21:01 | | C_tiger [~c_wyz@96.232.19.ns-12607] has quit [Quit: And away she goes!] |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I need a name for a program that implements a shared virtual card table. |
| 21:02 | | * Mariusz tries to think of a bad pun |
| 21:04 | < Vornicus-Latens> | TF: Gamut does that, sort of |
| 21:05 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Mariusz: that's the point. |
| 21:05 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Oh, oh |
| 21:06 | < Vornicus-Latens> | "Felt" |
| 21:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | I like it. Let's see if it already exists. |
| 21:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, what exactly does gamut do? |
| 21:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not googleable. |
| 21:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, there it is |
| 21:11 | < Vornicus-Latens> | add "plotkin" and you should get a bit |
| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cool, but not what I'm looking for |
| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | The point of felt is that it's a completely generic virtual table; it lets you manipulate the cards as though you were at the table, but has no understanding of rules and imposes no constraints on the card sets. |
| 21:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | so, given the right cardset files, it should be usable for everything from solitaire to MtG. |
| 21:19 | | * ToxicFrog ponders design |
| 21:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | The C side basically has to: load configuration; create the SDL contexts based on that configuration; and then sit in an event loop, handling some events (mostly wm-related) and passing the rest (mostly kb/mouse related) to lua. It also has to know how to redraw the screen based on structures held in lua. |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lua needs to provide the configuration, and callbacks to handle all interesting events which manipulate the structures which C uses to determine how to draw the screen. |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | For a first cut, the C side needs to know about colored blocks, and the Lua side needs to be able to react to mouse-down, mouse-move, and mouse-release events. |
| 21:23 | | Flamer [~Cam_ev_a@85.100.26.ns-11561] has left #code [] |
| 21:24 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Among other things you'll need to handle: revealing cards to individual opponents, moving blocks of cards, and other such silliness. |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Moving blocks I have well in hand; cards can be attached to each other (say, an MtG creature and the enchantments linked to it), and moving one will move them all; furthermore, "card piles" can be created, implementing all related collections (deck, discard, hand, etc), and can be moved, moving all cards within them. |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Revealing cards to individual opponents is not something I have yet considered. I may need to rethink the visibility rules. |
| 21:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I definitely need to; associating visibility with areas rather than cards is all very well until you need to reveal one card, or have partially-visible stacks like in, again, solitaire. |
| 21:37 | < Vornicus-Latens> | TF: consider FreeCell, and moving partial piles |
| 21:37 | < Mariusz> | FreeCell only implements that as meta behavior, though. |
| 21:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | That, I think, is handled by the attachment rules |
| 21:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | A attached B does not necessarily imply B attached A |
| 21:37 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Mariusz: true, FreeCell is based on single-card moves. Spider? |
| 21:37 | < Mariusz> | AFAIK the FreeCell rules only allow you to move one card at at a time. |
| 21:38 | < Mariusz> | Klondike Solitaire, maybe. |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or Seahaven. |
| 21:38 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Or any of a wide variety of other games. |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | In the case of MtG, the enchantments would be attached to the creature (so moving the creature moves the enchantments), but not vice versa. |
| 21:38 | < Vornicus-Latens> | TF: look into PySol, I think it's called |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | In Seahaven, it's the other way around; the card on top is attached to the card below it, but not vice versa |
| 21:39 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 21:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I might loot PySol for interface ideas. |
| 21:41 | < Vornicus> | You'll need to, at the very least, put together an interface specification thingy. |
| 21:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | "interface specification thingy"? |
| 21:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | As in, write down how the interface actually works rather than adhoccing it together? |
| 21:41 | < Mariusz> | Mm, thingies. |
| 21:41 | < Vornicus> | Well, if I play a particular game, I'll want to, uh |
| 21:41 | < Vornicus> | I will want to change how the interface works based on what game I'm playing. |
| 21:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | My goal here is to have no game specific interfaces |
| 21:42 | < Vornicus> | I don't want to have to rebuild my freecell interface every time I play. |
| 21:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Indeed, attachment is just a convenience |
| 21:42 | | Mariusz is now known as iIovefire |
| 21:42 | | iIovefire is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 21:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | fundamentally, the only operations it needs to implement are: move card; create card; delete card; rotate card; flip card; and visibility |
| 21:42 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. |
| 21:43 | < Vornicus> | So, like, modular interface profiles, is what I'm sort of getting at. |
| 21:43 | < ErikMesoy> | Could you implement counters/markings? MTG and probably several other games would want to have those. |
| 21:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, yes, counters and notes |
| 21:43 | < ErikMesoy> | Being able to put a red dot on a card or the like. |
| 21:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | The actual design target is MtG |
| 21:43 | | ErikMesoy is now known as Mariusz |
| 21:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | so counters, notes, and generics are also in the design |
| 21:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as modular interface profiles go - I could see something for creating loadable table layouts and startup sequences |
| 21:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | But altering the actual behaviour of the program is further down that slope than I want to go |
| 21:46 | < Vornicus> | What I'm trying to get at, personally, is that a generic tool like this sucks unless you can get it to do /your specific task/ well. Genericity blows unless you're a programming nerd, and then you're the kind of guy who /builds his own specificity/. |
| 21:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I'm getting at is that I think I can accomplish this without needing game-specific behaviour controls. |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, rather |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I could also see something like game-specific key configuration or the like |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | But not actually adding or removing gestures based on game |
| 21:48 | < Vornicus> | And I agree with that absolutely. What I'm looking for however is the ability to load and save key controls and the specific powers of gestures. In FreeCell, dragging a card onto another will attach, for instance; in Idiot's Delight, dragging a card onto another will remove both. |
| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | In effect, what you propose is raising the event system so that rather than just understanding things like "key down" or "mouse move", it understands things like "card dropped on table", "card dropped on card", "card tapped", and whatnot |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then a way for users to easily select which event handler they want for each event |
| 21:50 | < Mariusz> | Hmm. |
| 21:50 | < Mariusz> | Another thing: Do you want to load card "data" at all beyond the images? |
| 21:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cards will need at least some metadata so they can be easily searched for and whatnot |
| 21:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | The way I see, a card consists of: a front image; a back image; a name; and a game-specific optional block of text |
| 21:58 | < Vornicus> | Though many games will probably create many card images from others. |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, and back images will tend to be shared by entire cardsets. |
| 21:58 | < Vornicus> | Magic for instance will interpret the text and place it and the card image on a regular card template. |
| 21:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | I actually haven't given any thought whatsoever to custom card generators at runtime. |
| 21:59 | < Vornicus> | Though The Ultimate Nightmare Of Wizards Of The Coast Customer Service will be completely custom anyway. |
| 21:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | In the case of MtG in particular it's easier to just crawl a website for card information and images than it is to generate card images from data. |
| 21:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | For both the user and the programmer. |
| 22:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Organizationally, I see it as: there's an image store; cards associate some information with images (and one image can be used by arbitrarily many cards); card sets are (potentially overlapping) unordered sets of cards, such as "standard playing cards", "MtG 10th edition", or "MtG red cards"; and decks are ordered lists of cards with associated counts. |
| 22:06 | < Mariusz> | Silly torrent still has a speed around 1 kB/s and a 1week ETA. I think the lock might indicate "it's being throttled" for some reason. |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | They both have the same flags. |
| 22:07 | < Mariusz> | Also, I found that protocol encryption was set to disabled. I enabled it now? |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, like I said, it has a speed that low because I have very little upstream |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's 64KBps total, split between five people *and* asymmetrically linked to downstream (ie, if all 64KBps is in use, I have no downstream bandwidth whatsoever) |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, ktorrent itself is limited to 12KBps total |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | And this is, at present, split between 25 torrents. |
| 22:09 | < Vornicus> | what is being torrented? |
| 22:09 | < Mariusz> | Yes, but I thought the nature of a torrent was that the speed would go up as I started getting from other people. |
| 22:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but at present there's only one other person. |
| 22:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the only person he's getting data from is me. |
| 22:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | The speed goes up only until you hit saturation, ie, all leeches have the same (or almost the same) data. |
| 22:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Once that point is reached, you're limited by the total speed of the seeds. |
| 22:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | And this torrent is at saturation, and the only seed is me. |
| 22:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: TA. |
| 22:11 | < Vornicus> | Ah |
| 22:12 | < NSGuest-7122> | ta:spring is free/open source and is direct downloadable <:) |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | And doesn't support the singleplayer campaign. |
| 22:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | I believe you also need the TA data files for it anyways. |
| 22:13 | < NSGuest-7122> | no |
| 22:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh? |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's now bundled with the maps, units, textures, sounds, etc? |
| 22:14 | < NSGuest-7122> | yes |
| 22:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Handy. Does it have singleplayer, custom AI, and TATC support yet? |
| 22:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and have they fixed the hitbox issue? |
| 22:18 | | * Vornicus wonders what it would take to get TA on the SupComm engine. |
| 22:20 | | Mariusz is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Conversion of all the media into SupComm formats - this can probably be automated |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Translation of TA unit scripts into SupComm Lua - this almost certainly cannot be |
| 22:25 | | * ToxicFrog ponders high-level event handlers |
| 22:26 | < jerith> | What if you write a TA unit script terp in Lua... |
| 22:26 | < Vornicus> | ;_; |
| 22:26 | < jerith> | I made Vorn cry. :-( |
| 22:26 | | * jerith offers tissues and a comforting hug. |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Might work, as long as it was actually a compiler, emitting lua code at load time |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it actually interpreted the original script at runtime performance would, I suspect, be unacceptable |
| 22:29 | < jerith> | Meh. Throw hardware at it... |
| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, I can't offhand think of anything TA does that SupComm intrinsically can't do; it should be entirely possible |
| 22:29 | < Vornicus> | Multilevel emulation = :( |
| 22:29 | | * ToxicFrog smacks jerith |
| 22:29 | | * jerith builds a trebuchet to throw said hardware. |
| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | that's only feasible if you have the hardware to throw; not all gamers can afford $4000 machines. |
| 22:30 | < jerith> | ToxicFrog: The seriousness of my proposed solutions started off very low and is now digging. :-P |
| 22:30 | <@McMartin> | If I had $4000 to blow on gaming hardware, I'd instead blow $2000 on PS3 + HDTV. |
| 22:31 | < Shoukanjuu> | \o/ |
| 22:31 | < Vornicus> | if I had $4000 to blow on gaming hardware the first thing I'd get is an HDTV. |
| 22:31 | < ErikMesoy> | \m/_O_\m/ |
| 22:31 | <@McMartin> | \[o.o]/ < (Yay! Doom!) |
| 22:31 | < Shoukanjuu> | Why is it just for gaming hardware |
| 22:31 | < Vornicus> | After that I don't know. |
| 22:31 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'd be happy with just 4k to blow in general |
| 22:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shoukanjuu: the point is, if you have enough money that you can afford to dedicate $4000 just to gaming, rather than food, or rent, or utilities, or expanding your library |
| 22:33 | < ErikMesoy> | If I had $4k to blow on gaming stuff, I'd probably put $1k of it as a bounty for Wine features. |
| 22:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I like this idea. |
| 22:33 | < Shoukanjuu> | \o/ |
| 22:34 | < ErikMesoy> | My current laptop cost all of 1k USD at the time I bought it and it runs everything I need and most of what I want. |
| 22:34 | | * ToxicFrog would probably get a new monitor, a heavier video card, maybe a DS, and squirrel the rest away for when one of the modern gaming systems becomes interesting |
| 22:34 | < ErikMesoy> | Then again, the heaviest things I run are probably Rise of Nations and D2:LoD. |
| 22:34 | < Shoukanjuu> | I've mastered stalling my engine to dodge missiles. |
| 22:34 | < ErikMesoy> | Oh, nice. |
| 22:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | For everything I need, Orias cost me nothing and runs them just fine. |
| 22:35 | < ErikMesoy> | Orias? |
| 22:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | for everything I want, Durandal has cost me around $3000 (spread over 6 years, however), and runs everything, but not necessarily as well as I would like. |
| 22:35 | <@McMartin> | I somehow managed to collect 19 DS games in under a year. |
| 22:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, well |
| 22:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Everything in PC gaming |
| 22:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | R4DS |
| 22:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | >_> |
| 22:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Consoles are handled by seperate hardware |
| 22:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | (for the most part - DS games I play on Durandal) |
| 22:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: Orias is my pet server, responsible for running all critical software and storing all data. |
| 22:36 | | * jerith kitted out a new fileserver for about US$1k recently. |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | It started out as a 486 with a scavenged 20GB drive in it, and has over the years been gradually upgraded - always with scavenged hardware - into a ten-disk, two-CPU, 4U rackmountable behemoth. |
| 22:37 | < ErikMesoy> | You name your machines? :P |
| 22:37 | | * ErikMesoy isn't *quite* that fanatical yet. |
| 22:37 | | * jerith considers his machines. |
| 22:37 | | * Vornicus names his machines because it makes his life easier. |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | If I didn't, how would I refer to them? |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | "the laptop"? which one? |
| 22:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | "the server"? do I mean Orias, Ancilla, or one of the remote servers I administer? |
| 22:38 | < jerith> | I name mine mostly to find them on the network. |
| 22:38 | < Shoukanjuu> | I name my machines too |
| 22:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Furthermore, it makes networking much easier. |
| 22:38 | < Shoukanjuu> | Because they are my only friends ;_;! |
| 22:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | "ssh orias" is easier to both type and remember than "ssh 192.168.1.202" |
| 22:38 | < jerith> | terra is now terraprime and will be terminus as soon as I get all the useful stuff off the old terminus. |
| 22:38 | <@McMartin> | I name the machines because I need to ssh accross them, as TF notes. |
| 22:38 | <@McMartin> | Though I admit my laptop is named for a horrible pun. |
| 22:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially when the DHCP server is also the DNS server, and ensures "ssh orias" will Do The Right Thing even if the IP changes. |
| 22:38 | <@McMartin> | But man, who *doesn't* want to run spiff.graknil.org? |
| 22:39 | < jerith> | cetaganda is the new fileserver. manticore is on another continent. |
| 22:39 | <@McMartin> | graknil.org is now gone, but spiff still runs. |
| 22:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Ah yes. Do The Right Thing. :) |
| 22:39 | | * Vornicus has Gardner, Hilbert, Erdos, Nash, and the brand new Coxeter. |
| 22:39 | < jerith> | trantor, barrayar and coruscant live at my parents' house. |
| 22:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Anyhoo, I'm off to bed. Thanks again for the torrent, TF. |
| 22:39 | < Vornicus> | well, not brand new, just inherited it. But new to the house. |
| 22:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I have Durandal, Orias, Leela, Auxilior, Oculus, and Tycho, in approximate order of acquisition |
| 22:39 | | ErikMesoy [~ejm@Nightstar-876.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.] |
| 22:39 | | * Shoukanjuu names his machines and externals mostly after protoss units |
| 22:39 | <@McMartin> | Our lab names them after cheese. |
| 22:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Plus various cast-off shells formerly inhabited by these, and a few as-yet-unnamed (due to being largely unused) systems. |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | The workhorses are named things like swiss and cheddar and baby-bel, the powerful servers have names like stilton and limburger, and the laptops have names like velveeta and handi-snack and myzithra. |
| 22:40 | < jerith> | Oh, perdya/orum which will be moving into the old terminus hardware as soon as the new terminus is ready. |
| 22:41 | < jerith> | Also, the perdya in perdya/orum will probably go away. I no longer need the dual-boot. |
| 22:41 | | * Vornicus used to have: Turing, Conway, and Fields |
| 22:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | My Windows partition is just called "Windoze" |
| 22:41 | < Vornicus> | I wanted to name one Riemann, but I always forgot whether it was ei or ie, so I decided against it. |
| 22:42 | < Vornicus> | and grothendeick is right out. |
| 22:42 | < jerith> | No Laplace? |
| 22:42 | < jerith> | Or Fourier? |
| 22:42 | < Vornicus> | jerith: not yet. |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and back in fergus, the parents maintain Ancilla, Munin, Amigo, Parafiamma, Myth, and...I forget what mom's desktop is called. Milon and Gemini have been retired and Echo moved out with my sister.) |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and I don't remember any of the parental laptop names) |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I never need to ssh into them, after all~) |
| 22:43 | < Vornicus> | (the Grothendeick Prime is one of my favorite stories in math) |
| 22:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: dual-boots always give me naming trouble - should they have seperate names, or not? If not, what happens if they fork? If so, should the hardware have yet a third name, or should it be named after one of the systems? |
| 22:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fortunately, this was only an issue twice - Durandal (linux half was transplanted into the 486 and renamed Orias) and Leela (windows half was uninstalled when I realized I never used it) |
| 22:44 | < Vornicus> | Janus, Dent, and The Dodecahedron. |
| 22:44 | < jerith> | I named them separately. The Linux on there was always secondary (I needed a Debian box for some development and didn't have spare hardware). |
| 22:44 | <@McMartin> | I think of the names as being of the network cards. |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | ssh controls, etc |
| 22:45 | < jerith> | I also chose the names to be the good guys and bad guys in a book I rather enjoyed. |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | My current laptop is named Carlsbad |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | Because it is Not Vista. |
| 22:45 | < Vornicus> | and Beeblebrox |
| 22:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: yeah, but I move NICs around a fair bit |
| 22:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or at least I did, before most of my machines got onboards |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | At present I just associate the name with the machine and all OSes thereof, but that's easy because I have no multiboot systems. |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know of at least one friend who has three OSes on her laptop, with seperate names for each of them and for the hardware itself. |
| 22:46 | < jerith> | My DHCP server gives the machines whatever names they ask for. |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, same here. |
| 22:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also assigns the IPs based on MAC hashing, which is nice. |
| 22:47 | < jerith> | The various bits of multiboot are different systems that just happen to share hardware. |
| 22:48 | < jerith> | It's the systems that are important and hence are named. |
| 22:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Part of it is that the name is attached not just to the OS but to the purpose. |
| 22:48 | < jerith> | Yeah. |
| 22:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | But then, the purpose can mutate as well... |
| 22:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Durandal started out as a dual Fedora/2k everything-desktop. |
| 22:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Once Orias was created, it was a 2k almost-everything desktop. |
| 22:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's since changed into an XP gaming rig and X terminal. |
| 22:50 | | * Vornicus tries to think of other dual-boot system names. |
| 22:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gemini was the dual-boot windows/linux machine before it was broken down for parts. |
| 22:50 | < Vornicus> | ah, there's one. |
| 22:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | In Fergus, that is. |
| 22:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | I always liked the name. |
| 22:51 | <@McMartin> | Zinglon, arguably |
| 22:51 | <@McMartin> | Zinglon is dualboot |
| 22:51 | < Vornicus> | ZoqFotPik |
| 22:51 | <@McMartin> | He's also everywhere you want to be! |
| 22:51 | <@McMartin> | And a lot of places you really don't |
| 22:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (oh yes, there was also Foreign, so named because it used to be a test system for the Japanese version of SCO UNIX) |
| 22:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (like Milon, broken down for parts shortly after aquisition) |
| 22:52 | < Vornicus> | Milon? After Milon's Secret Castle, that awful NES game? |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | No idea. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Milon and Foreign were both inherited from Scocan when it shut down. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | IIRC - and this was over a decade ago - they were broken down and their parts used to create Gemini and what would eventually become Parafiamma |
| 22:53 | < Vornicus> | lon-chaney |
| 22:54 | < Vornicus> | and, at that, peter-sellers |
| 22:56 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-27817.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS! Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclicken und giffengrabben. Ist easy droppenpacket der routers und overloaden der backbone mit der spammen und der me-tooen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das mausklicken sichtseeren keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das cursorblinken.] |
| 22:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Great. It's Actually Worse Than That. |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, minimum I need for an initial beta is, I think: |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | - create cards, card sets, and decks, and load them into the game |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - create and delete cards |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - create and delete regions with default visibility aspects |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - edit visibility of regions and cards |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - move regions and cards |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - rotate cards |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | - select multiple cards, manipulate them as a group, and persistently group or ungroup them |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | - add and remove tokens and notes from cards |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | - control how cards are added to a region, where such settings are meaningful |
| --- Log closed Wed Jun 25 00:00:40 2008 |