| --- Log opened Thu Jun 19 00:00:03 2008 |
| 00:01 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29556.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Death is always at your back, for all return to the earth from which they came, the fire of life is at the births to come, the tears of a mourning woman are at your left, and the wind blows forth from your right.] |
| 00:57 | | * McMartin plays with Google Web Toolkit |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Well, the resulting applications look pretty good. |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | !!! |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | Well. Maybe I don't need the GWT after all. |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | Someone's already made an official Button Men Web Client. |
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| 02:25 | < Raif> | Doomstick! |
| 02:28 | <@Vornicus> | Doomstick? |
| 02:31 | < Shoukanjuu> | ? |
| 02:31 | | * Vornicus gives Shoukanjuu a Boomstick. |
| 02:33 | | * Shoukanjuu uses it to rend a hole in Perl |
| 02:34 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 02:37 | | * Raif blames vorn. |
| 02:38 | | * Vornicus blames it on the Bossa Nova. |
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| 02:40 | <@Raif> | Flush! |
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| 20:54 | <@McMartin> | ... Oh, fuck you, Debian. |
| 20:54 | <@McMartin> | Have the actually functional version of the package be named "package", please. |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | not "package1732", where 173.2 happened to have been the first version that was acceptably usable. |
| 21:35 | <@Doctor_Nick> | the debian package maintainers hate you |
| 21:36 | <@Vornicus> | they hate everybody. |
| 21:50 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 21:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 23:33 | <@Kazriko> | McMartin, usually they have a meta package that relies on the real package to take care of that... |
| 23:33 | <@McMartin> | Kazriko: No, see the one that looks like a metapackage installs the old, shitty, non-functional one. |
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| 23:35 | <@McMartin> | (This happened before with Python many years before; what brings it up now is TinyFugue, where I have finally located the necessary package to have things like backscroll.) |
| 23:35 | <@McMartin> | (Which is just a bit important for a MUD client) |
| 23:35 | <@Kazriko> | ahh. Probably because of some other requirement tree... |
| 23:35 | <@McMartin> | tf and tf5 don't depend on anything more complicated than ncurses. |
| 23:36 | <@Kazriko> | Are you sure the functional one is in the main repository or is it in an aux or testing one? |
| 23:36 | <@McMartin> | What's going on is that the "stable" (read: shitty, non-functional) while the other is a "beta". |
| 23:36 | <@Kazriko> | yep. |
| 23:36 | <@McMartin> | However, they are entirely separate packages, instead of "Oh hai I r using testing/unstable/etc" being "right, here are the testing/unstable/etc versions" |
| 23:37 | <@McMartin> | In otherwords, the functional revision is not a later revision of the nonfunctional revision. |
| 23:37 | <@Kazriko> | you often want to mix versions of things.... |
| 23:37 | | * McMartin has a larger objection to "stable" meaning "reliably busted", but that's a separate rant. |
| 23:38 | <@Kazriko> | Basically what you have is a backport... |
| 23:38 | <@Kazriko> | which is supposed to always come only at user request |
| 23:38 | <@McMartin> | This is actually happening through Ubuntu here. |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | My only direct brushes with Debian directly were (a) "Your GTK app doesn't work on Debian stable because it uses a stock file chooser dialog" and (b) "UQM expansion packs don't work because the Debian developers broke the content distribution to save space" |
| 23:39 | <@Kazriko> | btw, stable means changes slower, not works better. :) |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | Yes, but there are limits. =P |
| 23:40 | <@McMartin> | (My response to (a) was "I'm going to require GTK+ 2.1, what with it being up to 2.12 now." and "That's their fault, here's a workaround, the problem is expected to vanish in the next minor release anyway") |
| 23:40 | <@Kazriko> | As for breaking packages into smaller bits, that's a whole other rant. :) |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | Well, no, that wasn't the UQM problem. |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | The problem was that they decompressed all the resource packages in the final install |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | Which UQM read as "override everything else", becuase that's how it treats loose files. |
| 23:42 | <@Kazriko> | interesting |
| 23:42 | <@McMartin> | And the reason they did that was becuase they wanted to get superior compression by unzipping everything then rezipping it into one archive, and they were too lazy to reconstruct the original file structure afterwards. |
| 23:43 | <@Kazriko> | That's silly |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | So is attempting to demand standardization on GTK+ 2.0 |
| 23:43 | <@Kazriko> | they should have done a better job as maintainers making it work right |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | Well, it only inconveniences end-users. |
| 23:44 | <@McMartin> | Keeping the packages as-is inconveniences mirror sites! |
| 23:44 | <@McMartin> | We know who's more important |
| 23:44 | <@Kazriko> | heh. Debian doesn't have many paying customers |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, tea, then talk. |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | And I did finally find the package that lets me mix MUD with screen. |
| 23:45 | <@Kazriko> | I'm leaving soon, heh |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | And doesn't clear the screen and forbid recap every time I page over to it |
| 23:45 | <@Kazriko> | gotta go back |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | Yes, that should totally be the default behavior. |
| --- Log closed Fri Jun 20 00:00:09 2008 |