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code logs -> 2008 -> Wed, 28 May 2008< code.20080527.log - code.20080529.log >
--- Log opened Wed May 28 00:00:42 2008
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07:07
<@C_tiger>
Ok, I'm here for a program suggestion/approach suggestion.
07:08
< Shoukanjuu>
A program that would take precise measurements of volume in order to gauge how much water needs to be added or subtracted to keep a near constant volume outside in the heat of central florida
07:09
<@C_tiger>
I just finished archiving all my music (25+ GB) onto DVDs. That's the good news... the bad news is I didn't actually LABEL them. I'm looking for a program that I can put in the CD's one at a time and it'll generate a spreadsheet/database of what file is on each CD.
07:10
< Shoukanjuu>
Oh.
07:10
< Shoukanjuu>
....oh.
07:10
<@C_tiger>
I've labeled them 1-12 (I started off with CDs but I soon realized that DVDs were a better option)
07:11
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, 25...25GB is only like...6 DVDs >.>
07:11
< Shoukanjuu>
oh
07:11
< Shoukanjuu>
In the time it would take you to find this program that you would use at a maximum of 1 time
07:11
< Shoukanjuu>
you could be checking the CDs
07:12
<@C_tiger>
Well I'm also considering indexing my CD backups of all my files from years past.
07:13
< Shoukanjuu>
You...you did make them alphabetical, right?
07:13
< Shoukanjuu>
Not chronological?
07:13
<@C_tiger>
well the CD/DVDs for music aren't labeled at all... so they're unordered.
07:14
<@C_tiger>
my old backups are semichronological.
07:14
< Shoukanjuu>
Dear goddess
07:14
< Shoukanjuu>
Those poor CDs... x_x
07:14
<@C_tiger>
but those have dates... I just figured that it'd be easy to build this nice large database and then if I'm looking for a file that I know the name of, I just do a search and pull up the right one.
07:15
<@C_tiger>
a catalog system.
07:15
< Shoukanjuu>
Yeah, I understand that
07:15
< Shoukanjuu>
for some reason, Filemaker comes to mind
07:15
< Shoukanjuu>
Because it's a database program
07:16
< Shoukanjuu>
But I never did get around to figure out how to make it get input without...manually giving it input
07:16
<@C_tiger>
yeah, that would be a key feature, recursive folder-going.
07:17
< Shoukanjuu>
I bet it does
07:21
<@C_tiger>
any ideas? I can probably do it with a perlscript if I can figure out how to have it glob the cd rom drive in linux.
07:22
< Shoukanjuu>
Asking the wrong guy, my friend
07:23
<@Vornicus>
Python has os.walk
07:23
<@C_tiger>
I can use python as well... it's a pretty simple while loop.
07:24
<@C_tiger>
while <STDIN> {get list of files, write files}
07:25
< Shoukanjuu>
And now we went from just slightly to over my head to ohgodthat'sthesunIshouldn't'velookedup- over my head
07:25
< Shoukanjuu>
That said, I'm gonna have a mountain dew and pass out. Good lugh, C
07:25
< Shoukanjuu>
luck, too
07:25
<@C_tiger>
unfortunately I don't know how to read from stdin in python either :(
07:26
< EvilDarkLord>
Isn't there raw_input() for that?
07:27
<@C_tiger>
Yay google.
07:30
<@C_tiger>
Ok, how to access the CDrom drive in ubuntu? /media/cdrom0 ?
07:40
<@Vornicus>
something like that
07:40
<@C_tiger>
Ok, there is a downside to programming on one computer and yaking with y'all on another.
07:41
<@Vornicus>
heh
07:42
<@C_tiger>
Man, I'm too addicted to perl shortcuts, apparently it doesn't let me do while disk_name = raw_input("Name of disk: "):
08:01
<@C_tiger>
is ~ not valid in file paths?
08:02
<@McMartin>
~ is interpreted by the shell, not the file system.
08:02
<@McMartin>
Something in Python should do expansions; an equivalent of Java's File.getAbsolutePath()
08:10
<@Vornicus>
it'll be in os.path...
08:11
<@Vornicus>
os.path.expanduser will do ~ expansions
08:11
<@C_tiger>
I'll just put /home/cheng/ no harm done.
08:13
<@Vornicus>
and then there's os.path.abspath and os.path.normpath
08:20 * Reiver makes his own head explode trying to think of a more realistic method of doing research.
08:21
<@Reiver>
(For a large-scale 4X game.)
08:21
<@Vornicus>
Ah
08:21
<@Vornicus>
Well, there's a couple things you should conside
08:21
<@Reiver>
1) Nations don't research one thing at a time.
08:22
<@Reiver>
2) Steady investment over time yeilds more than sporadic investments of massive resources, though rapid intensifying /can/ yeild results.
08:22
<@Vornicus>
1 is SMAC's "undirected" research - you choose an approximate area (in SMAC, one of Explore, Discover, Build, and Conquer), and the computer chooses what tech you get randomly by the priorities.
08:23
<@Reiver>
3) Things tend to be refined over time - indeed, the new shiny model is frequently buggy, and becomes really useful later on, and then /stays/ useful due to sheer cost-effectiveness, even if not cutting edge.
08:23
<@Reiver>
3.5) But at the same time the New And Shiny has a tendancy to still kick Old And Reliables ass.
08:23
<@Vornicus>
2 is Master of Orion's "six areas, choose your priorities" thing - you have several areas in which to spend research, and you can choose how much to spend.
08:24
< jerith>
SMAC allows you to choose more than one area.
08:24
<@Reiver>
I'm thus trying to think of a way to model this tendancy.
08:24
< jerith>
So it's more like a much coarser-grained version of MOO's system.
08:25
<@Vornicus>
3 is again Master of Orion: as you gain in a tech area, your older stuff gets miniaturized, requires less power, and costs less... but the new stuff kills it dead - a mid-level shield will prevent somebody still using standard lasers.
08:25
<@Vornicus>
from doing damage.
08:25
<@Reiver>
So do you have a decent reason to bother?
08:26
< jerith>
Not entirely.
08:26
<@Vornicus>
With the older stuff? Sure. You can mount more of them, so against poorly-shielded, small targets (read: fighters), you can kill more of them.
08:26
< jerith>
I think Reiv's plan is that newer tech doesn't work all the time.
08:26 * Reiver is ... sort of pondering something that works out a little like the WWII aircraft thing - Spitfires, for example, were severely superior to Hurricanes. But Hurricanes were useful because you could crank them out, and while they couldn't effectively dogfight hostile fighters, they were /plenty/ good enough to down hostile bombers when they had the Spitfire support.
08:26
<@Vornicus>
Oh, what was it
08:26
<@Vornicus>
Ah!
08:27
<@Vornicus>
OTTD, trains have reliability number. Early versions of a train model have lower reliability and a shorter lifespan.
08:27
<@Reiver>
... interesting.
08:28
<@Vornicus>
What this means is that in the end early trains break down a lot.
08:28
<@C_tiger>
Woo, all done, thanks everyone.
08:29
<@Vornicus>
Also, earlier-model trains have much lower maintenance costs.
08:29
<@C_tiger>
(and yes the bulk of the time was spent realizing that it had to mount the CD ROM drive first, I couldn't just stick a CD in and instantly get results.)
08:29
<@Reiver>
... aha. So less reliable, but there's a tradeoff. You gotta have the cash on hand for the flash ones.
08:30
<@Vornicus>
Your system should auto-mount CDs, and you should be able to hook in to the "new directory" event, but I don't know how
08:30
<@Vornicus>
Reiver: ...let me give a concrete example, for more clarity.
08:30 * Reiver realises he's talking in Code by accident - shall we take this to Fleet? (Sorry, C, wasn't paying attention)
08:31
<@Vornicus>
Here works, anyway
08:31
<@Reiver>
... true! Carry on. :)
08:32
<@Vornicus>
When the kirby paul tank comes out in 1940, it has about a 70% reliability rating (about a 30% chance it will break down in any 12-month period) and a 20-year lifespan.
08:32 * Reiver nods.
08:32
<@Vornicus>
It goes about 70mph.
08:32
<@Vornicus>
And it has a maintenance cost of $10k a year
08:33
<@Vornicus>
WHen the SH-30 comes out in 1960, the kirby paul tank has gotten up to 90% reliability and a 23-year lifespan. its speed and maintenance cost hasn't change
08:33
<@Vornicus>
but the SH-30 now has a 70% reliability and a 20-year lifespan, it goes about 90mph, and its maintenance cost is about $15k a year
08:34
<@Reiver>
... aha.
08:35
<@Vornicus>
Twenty years later, the kirby paul is completely obsolete, you can't get them any more - but that's okay, because the SH-30 is at the 90%/23yr thing, and you've got even shinier and faster locomotives.
08:35
<@Vornicus>
Oh, and all these things have a horsepower rating that says how fast they can accelerate
08:36
<@Vornicus>
So new versions of the old model are more reliable and longer-lasting and less costly, but they don't go as fast and can't carry as much behind them as the new model.
08:39
<@Reiver>
Ah-hah.
08:39
<@Vornicus>
And reliability is important, especially on high-traffic routes, because if one train stops, it gums up the entire works.
08:39
<@Reiver>
So the old model of something can be good for a low-stress job, but for a high-crucial one you need to be careful?
08:41
<@MyCatVerbs>
Vornicus: ach, bastards. Hate the way TTD assasinates planes. Does OTTD not do that?
08:42
<@Vornicus>
OTTD assassinates planes, yeah
08:42
<@Vornicus>
which I find strange; it's the most dangerous mode of transport, unless you allow level crossings.
08:42
<@Reiver>
Heh
08:42
<@Reiver>
There's a mod out there that lets you do otherwise, isn't there?
08:43
<@MyCatVerbs>
Vornicus: like the first supersonic plane you can buy in TTD, even if you have a goddamn -fleet- of them, their reliability drops year-on-year. And even though newer planes come out after them, they actually perform better -and- are cheaper than all but approximately two of the planes that come later.
08:43
<@MyCatVerbs>
Reiver: yeah, TTDpatch, I think. I always play with that, myself. Can't stand the woeful breakages in the original.
08:44
<@Vornicus>
(it's also a money spigot - in OTTD, cargo sells at a price according to the distance traveled and the time spent travelling. Suffice it to say that planes cane everything at it))
08:44
<@MyCatVerbs>
Vornicus: I mean, realistically there's no reason why you couldn't just keep making planes to the same old spec, keep the toolings, etc. :/
08:45
<@Reiver>
(... this would make sense for fresh goods, I guess?)
08:46
<@Vornicus>
(yes - passengers and mail need to be pretty fresh... but there's no such thing as a destination in OTTD - a passenger will go wherever you take him, and pay for the privilege.)
08:46
<@MyCatVerbs>
Reiver: that and things like mail and passenger transport.
08:46
<@Reiver>
(... aha. Eheh, I see.)
08:46
<@Vornicus>
(they're planning to fix that...)
08:46
<@MyCatVerbs>
Yes, this means you -can- indeed ship people off from every city on the planet to Upper West Bumfuck, Egypt.
08:47
<@MyCatVerbs>
However, if you do so, UWBE's population will explode, and pretty soon it'll be a worthwhile city to visit in its own right. ;)
08:47
<@Vornicus>
But, yeah. That's something to avoid.
08:49
<@Reiver>
So, hm.
08:49
<@MyCatVerbs>
I dunno, I thought it was pretty cool, myself.
08:49
<@Vornicus>
You'll want to look at supply/demand models; I have a tiny-ass old game for Mac called Galactic Trader that uses supply/demand models to make it tricky to get the kind of cash you need.
08:50
<@Vornicus>
To avoid in your game, that is
08:50
<@Reiver>
Ones initial craft could be expensive to produce and absolute resource hogs to keep running, yet Totally Awesome when they actually get the chance to perform.
08:51
<@Reiver>
If you continue to manufacture them, their price and reliability issues are reduced. As you continue to refine them, they also maintain parity in effectiveness for a while - but there's an upper limit where you either have to actively refit the things to open up the upgrade path again, or they start to fall behind.
08:53
<@Reiver>
... and the longer you put into development, the less maintinence issues you have at start, perhaps. So you can Quickly Throw Together the Soulcrusher 9000, but it'll be a nightmare to run and cost a crapload. If you'd spent the time researching it more slowly, you can get a Decent Ship right out of the shipyards, and it can do you in good stead for years.
08:59 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:00
< jerith>
Reiver: I think you can model that quite nicely by making everything revolting straight out of the labs and then allocating "refinement" budgets to various areas.
09:00
<@Reiver>
Spend too long though, and it's obsolete before its finished - this could be a problem for Shooting Too High in new designs, or Funding Too Low.
09:00
<@Reiver>
As for budget blowouts and late designs...
09:01
<@Reiver>
... eheheheheh
09:01
<@Reiver>
corruption. The price you pay for expanding too fast, or being inconsistent with funding. >.>
09:01
< jerith>
That gives you a nice balance between "all new stuff all the time" and "we're only ever going to build better mousetraps, no laser guns evar"
09:02
<@Reiver>
... actually that could work nicely, if not done to silly extremes like Civ3 did.
09:03
<@Reiver>
Mostly by having it sneak in if you leave things poorly administered over time, or try to do too much too fast. (Once you're there, you can hammer it back down again if you spend time doing housekeeping, if you will.)
09:03
<@Reiver>
Corruption would work as well in Research as it would elsewhere. Indeed, if you start rapidly expanding into an industrial juggernaught, it can hobble you elsewhere if you don't keep a cap on corruption.
09:03 * Reiver needs to work out how to model /that/ too, mind.
09:04 * Reiver is sort of vaugely gunning for a game with a complex set of interactions between various elements, yet is relatively straightforward to /play/.
09:05
<@Reiver>
I'm ... pretty sure it's doable. You've just got to get the interactions right to start with.
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14:21
<@AnnoDomini>
Hmm. I need to send some information via a form. I want to send the contents of a text field and a static value. How do I do this?
14:21
<@AnnoDomini>
This is HTML, BTW.
14:33
<@MyCatVerbs>
AnnoDomini: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp
14:34
<@MyCatVerbs>
AnnoDomini: chances are you can read it quicker than I could explain it to you, especially seeing how I can't remember most of it.
14:35
<@AnnoDomini>
Okay.
14:39
<@AnnoDomini>
Aha. I could do it with a readonly text field.
14:39
<@AnnoDomini>
Thanks.
14:40
<@MyCatVerbs>
Dw i ddim yn problem.
14:47
<@ToxicFrog>
You can also use HIDDEN elements, IIRC
14:47
<@AnnoDomini>
Cool
14:50
<@MyCatVerbs>
Good idea. Invisible elements are a pretty common hack^H^H^H^Htechnique.
14:50
<@ToxicFrog>
(either way, just make sure things won't break if the user tampers with it anyways)_
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16:59
<@AnnoDomini>
Invisible element is invisible.
17:14 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
17:19
<@MyCatVerbs>
Argh. HOW MANY GOATS DO I HAVE TO SACRIFICE TO WHICH DEITIES TO STOP STRACE ABBREVIATING AWAY INFORMATION!?
17:26
<@MyCatVerbs>
Also, what IS it with FUCKING Debian and refusing to put any sort of verbosity into packaging utilities?
17:27
<@MyCatVerbs>
This shit is repeatedly failing like a Downs child playing Sodoku on a greased pole, and apparently the only ways I can get information on what it's actually doing are either a) go source diving or b) strace.
17:32
<@MyCatVerbs>
AH, YOU BASTARD! NAILED! Finally!
17:32
<@MyCatVerbs>
Now, just to go tell the maintainers.
17:35
<@gnolam>
Goats are for SCSI. It's black roosters you want.
17:37
<@MyCatVerbs>
I take back any and all slanderous or libellous statements I may have made about strace or its maintainers. I love strace and I want to hug every single person who has worked upon it.
17:38
<@MyCatVerbs>
However, apt and dpkg remain steaming piles of "dammit". I mean, dammit, they emanate a quite intriguing level of fail. If only Ubuntu used pacman instead. :/
18:09
<@AnnoDomini>
Damn it. I think I've crashed my IIS.
18:17 AnnoDomini is now known as Pete
18:20 You're now known as TheWatcher
19:24
<@gnolam>
You run IIS?
19:25
<@Pete>
It's kinda required to have ASP stuff.
19:25
<@Pete>
http://pastie.caboo.se/204879 <- Can anyone point out what I'm doing wrong? Something on this page causes the driver to crash.
19:26
<@Pete>
This thing is meant to store some data in a session array.
19:26
<@Pete>
Well, two arrays and a variable.
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--- Log closed Thu May 29 00:00:48 2008
code logs -> 2008 -> Wed, 28 May 2008< code.20080527.log - code.20080529.log >
 search of the:   for: