| --- Log opened Thu May 22 00:00:03 2008 |
| 00:29 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Bleh.] |
| 00:31 | | * Vornicus /very eyes/ the news. |
| 00:36 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:38 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 00:41 | | Vornotron [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
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| 00:42 | | Vornotron is now known as Vornicus |
| 00:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: why the eyeing? |
| 00:43 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by Vornicus |
| 00:43 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20080521092930864 |
| 00:44 | <@McMartin> | I'll believe it when I see it |
| 00:46 | <@Vornicus> | Yes |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Likewise. |
| 00:58 | < NSGuest-6610> | McMartin: The reason they're adding ODF support to Office 2007 is because ooxml-iso is not going to be implemented until office 14 |
| 00:59 | | NSGuest-6610 is now known as Doctor_Nick |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | This does look like "oh shit, we can't get OOXML working before the heat death of the universe" |
| 00:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | plus it makes it easier for people to migrate away from free office applications |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although in that case I'm wondering why they aren't just keeping the legacy format like they did with NTFS. |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | Doctor_Nick: But it also lets people migrate away. |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | The whole reason MS did OOXML in the first place was so that they could lock in Office customers |
| 00:59 | | Doctor_Nick is now known as NSGuest-6616 |
| 01:00 | < NSGuest-6616> | but I thought OOXML was a "superb standard"! |
| 01:00 | < NSGuest-6616> | what the heck |
| 01:00 | < NSGuest-6616> | why isnt my ident script working |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | Except, despite OOXML being for all practical purposes defined as "Whatever MS Office does", they still failed compliance. |
| 01:00 | < NSGuest-6616> | McMartin: someone made the point that OpenOffice doesnt support ODF-ISO 1.0 either |
| 01:01 | < NSGuest-6616> | that is to say, ODF-ISO 1.0 documents fail compliance checks with OO when they actually conform to the standard |
| 01:01 | <@McMartin> | Isn't OASIS still meeting? |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | If C++ taught us anything it is that you do not implement until the standard is done, unless the standard is "this reference implementation" |
| 01:03 | < NSGuest-6616> | ODF 1.0 was certified iso in 2006 |
| 01:03 | < NSGuest-6616> | odf 1.1 has come out since then |
| 01:03 | <@Vornicus> | THought it was 2004 |
| 01:03 | | NSGuest-6616 is now known as Doctor_Nick |
| 01:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | nope |
| 01:03 | <@Vornicus> | then there's ODF 1.2, which is mostly Formulas Formulas Formulas, from what I can tell |
| 06:50 | <@Raif> | Yay formulas. |
| 06:51 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
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| 07:30 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 08:29 | <@Raif> | Being a developer on office, I can say that office lock-in was not a primary concern for creating OOXML. |
| 08:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:34 | <@Raif> | I'm also not sure what these claims are of the "legacy binary formats" being the most compatible with current office features are... BIFF8 (the file format used in Excel 2003) is truly out of date, and can't support big grid, among other things. |
| 09:04 | | * Vornicus finds a Stupid Thinko in Mac Office (that might have been fixed, but): Usually if you use tab and enter to enter data, when you hit enter it goes to the beginning of the row. |
| 09:05 | <@Vornicus> | Which is fine. |
| 09:05 | <@Vornicus> | And indeed desirable |
| 09:05 | <@Vornicus> | But if you use the 'tabfill' feature in the last column, it does /not/ go back to the beginning of the row if you hit enter, instead stepping straight down. |
| 09:06 | <@Vornicus> | er, Excel, this is, obviously |
| 09:06 | | * Vornicus ...tends to forget the other products exist. |
| 09:07 | | * Vornicus does wish Visio was available for Mac, though. |
| 09:19 | < Doctor_Nick> | nope |
| 09:19 | < Doctor_Nick> | microsoft doesnt want mac users to do object oriented programming |
| 09:19 | < Doctor_Nick> | back to functional programming for you! |
| 09:38 | | * Vornicus points out that there's no way in hell he'd do actual programming in Visio. |
| 09:38 | <@Vornicus> | and UML is cargo cult shit |
| 10:15 | | * AnnoDomini has learned that he hates a) working with databases, b) working with HTML, c) working with scripts within HTML pages. |
| 10:16 | | * Vornicus patpats Anno |
| 10:16 | | * AnnoDomini cries, having to make an internet shop website using ASP to handle the database. |
| 11:03 | <@Vornicus> | One would think that this is something you can just grab off the internet. It's not as though there aren't thousands of the things. |
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| 13:26 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 14:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 14:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Raif: I didn't suggest it was most compatible. I expressed surprise that MS didn't update it for the next Office instead of increasing compatibility with the great satan that is free open-source software. |
| 15:19 | <@McMartin> | I would not be surprised if this was due to caving to multiple government blackmail |
| 15:22 | <@McMartin> | There's been an ODF plugin for Office for years, IIRC |
| 15:22 | <@McMartin> | Of course, it *sucks*, but it's been there |
| 16:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's aliiiiiiiiive |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ARCHIVE.DAT: 834 chunks |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Comment: "LG Res File v2^M\n^Z" |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | 4000 map 128 (packed 128) |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | 4001 map 1357 (packed 98) C |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | 4002 map 4 (packed 4) |
| 16:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 16:52 | <@McMartin> | ss1edit? |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep. |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Specifically, the first few parts of libss1edit.res and res(1) |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now that struct.read is usable, I can work on this |
| 17:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, Vornicus, thanks again for reminding me about the % operator on strings, it's made my life much easier. |
| 17:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, so far, res only supports loading of the TOC. |
| 17:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Next step is loading of raw chunk data, then loading of compressed chunks and chunk directories. |
| 17:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Once that's done it has the capability to load an entire res file, at which point I either add save support, or update res(1) to allow complete file unpacking and examination. |
| 17:12 | <@McMartin> | This is all in Lua, or is the % operator on strings implying that this is being done in Python? |
| 17:13 | <@McMartin> | (Or, for that matter, is this a Python prototype going to Lua production, which I could also see) |
| 17:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is all in Lua, and I stole the % operator from python. |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | It currently supports string % value and string % { value, value, value... } |
| 17:20 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 17:27 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-26506] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by rawrasaur))] |
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| 17:28 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-9913.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 17:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I can now do things like: local chunks = { struct.unpack(file, "{ id:u2 size:u3 flags:m1 packsize:u3 type:u1 }*%d" % rh.count) } |
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| 17:29 | <@McMartin> | Cunning |
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| 17:30 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as NSGuest-6625 |
| 17:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh gods. |
| 17:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: Matt, where can I find a formal grammar for CPL? |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | MATT: No such thing. |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: o.O |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | MATT: I think someone tried writing one a while ago. Never heard from him again. |
| 17:35 | <@McMartin> | CPL? |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Content Policy Language. |
| 17:36 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 17:37 | <@McMartin> | As opposed to Combined Programming Language, which got simplified to Basic Combined Programming Language, which simplified to B, which expanded to C. |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, this is the in-house rule-based language for defining policy in a proxySG. |
| 17:43 | | * McMartin changes his IFmud disconnect message to "When will your reign of madness end, Death Cannon?" |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pfft |
| 17:54 | | C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-16806.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #code |
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| 18:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 19:38 | | * ToxicFrog ponders. |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | there's a "filum.dll" in my home directory. |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Examination with nm reveals it to be a Lua module. |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have no recollection of what it does. |
| 19:39 | <@McMartin> | Heh |
| 19:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | It fills the disk with 1s. |
| 19:42 | <@McMartin> | I think I'll put Operation: Massive Cathartic Violence into operation tonight. |
| 19:42 | <@McMartin> | (This is the long-planned total reorganization of the UQM content) |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. This is unsettling. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | It now unpacks, say, ARCHIVE.DAT with no problems. |
| 20:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Somebody went in with a lone Horseman and razed your capital city? :p |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | But if I feed it MFDART.RES, the wheels come off. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Most of the chunks in MFDART.RES are compressed directories. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | After decompression, they look...not good. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | as in directory headers saying that it contains 30,000 subchunks. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or 0. |
| 21:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...LGS, you lunatics. |
| 21:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | So. |
| 21:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | If chunk.compressed and not chunk.directory, you just unpack it and you're good. |
| 21:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | If chunk.directory and not chunk.compressed, it starts with a directory header with offsets into the rest of the chunk. |
| 21:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | If chunk.directory and chunk.compressed... |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | The directory header is not compressed. |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | The rest of the chunk is. |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the offsets in the header are into the chunk post-decompression. |
| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | WHY?! |
| 21:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | (Because you touch yourself at night. </in-joke>) |
| 22:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | Opera is a nice browser, but oh god, the cache handling. Who wrote that? It's easily the shittiest feature in the entire thing. |
| 22:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's wrong with it? |
| 22:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean, ok, it's hard to get stuff out of the cache, especially if you can't start up Opera to access opera:cache, but that's common to pretty much all browsers. |
| 22:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it actually uses the cache, unlike, say, Firefox. |
| 22:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | In doesn't actually bother to check if applets have changed, when refreshing. I completely fail to understand what it takes for it to stop caching a website. |
| 22:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | shift-reload? |
| 22:42 | | * AnnoDomini shrugs. |
| 22:42 | | NSGuest-6625 is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, does that work? |
| 22:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | I don't know, since I don't care to change something in the applet right now. |
| 22:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, try that next time, since that's the command in most browsers, including opera, to reload ignoring the cache. |
| 22:51 | <@AnnoDomini> | What I'd really like to see is not chaching HTML, but rather stuff that actually takes a while to load, like images. |
| 22:51 | <@AnnoDomini> | Some forums are a pain to browse for new posts with Opera. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Have you actually looked at the configuration? |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Tools, Prefs, Advanced, History lets you configure cache sizes and timeouts for HTML and images seperately. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | about:config -> cache gives you finer grained controls. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Err, opera:config -> cache |
| 22:52 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes, I went there. Yes, I change the things. No, they don't work. |
| 22:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | I have it set to Always check documents. It does squat. |
| 22:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | How are you testing it? |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | You could also go into the configuration editor and just disable cacheing entirely, if necessary. |
| 22:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | By trying to GoToNewPost. The first time it's okay. The second time it goes to the place it went to before, regardless if the document has changed or not. |
| 22:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | More information. |
| 22:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm not sure what you want. It's phpBB2, but it has failed similarly with another BB system, which I forget nowadays. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | How do you get to the page with "go to new post" on it? How do you get back there after using it the first time? How is GTNP implemented - is the link generated in the host page, or does it refer you to a server-side redirect? |
| 23:01 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, see, none of these things should matter. =P |
| 23:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | Agreed. |
| 23:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Uh, I click a link. Usually by clicking another link. I have no idea. |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: Opera is very agressive about cache usage when going forward/back |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | That is, using the forward/back buttons |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it can possibly avoid hitting the network, it will do so, unless explicitly told to. |
| 23:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're clicking links, it should at least check the headers. |
| 23:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yeah, I'm clicking the links rather than forward/back because of that. I want the current page, not some old one. |
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| --- Log closed Fri May 23 00:00:10 2008 |