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code logs -> 2008 -> Mon, 05 May 2008< code.20080504.log - code.20080506.log >
--- Log opened Mon May 05 00:00:17 2008
00:09 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: If nothing we do matters, all that matters is that we do.]
00:48
<@McMartin>
Documentation is hard. ;_;
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02:10
<@McMartin>
Anyone want to flip through http://blorple.sf.net and tell me if it makes sense?
02:11
<@McMartin>
Also, Vorn!
02:11
< Finerty>
McM!
02:11
<@McMartin>
Can you tell me if OS 10.4 recently had its updates do a Java 6 install?
02:11
< Finerty>
I don't recall seeing it.
02:11
<@McMartin>
It just popped up in 10.5 yesterday.
02:12 * McMartin is mainly wondering at what point he'll be able to have Blorple require it.
02:12
<@McMartin>
Not Yet, Though.
02:13
< Finerty>
Well, 10.3 last I knew was still on an old one.
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04:42
<@McMartin>
(Also, Blorple is at a new version"
04:42
<@McMartin>
)
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--- Log closed Mon May 05 14:53:04 2008
--- Log opened Mon May 05 14:53:09 2008
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19:33
<@gnolam>
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~aleksey/pictures/curry-howard-isomorphism.jpg
19:34
<@Steve>
What.
19:34
<@McMartin>
Both produce painful burning sensations.
19:35
< Vornicus>
Heh
19:35
<@C_tiger>
duck curry... and what?
19:35
<@McMartin>
Howard The Duck
19:36 * C_tiger googles.
19:36
<@McMartin>
An extremely bad movie from the 80s.
19:36
<@C_tiger>
Ah.
19:36
<@McMartin>
Not bad enough to be good again. Just plain bad.
19:36
<@C_tiger>
Man duck curry is like the best curry ever.
19:36
<@C_tiger>
that's totally a bad analogy.
19:36
<@McMartin>
I've never had duck prepared a way I like.
19:37
<@C_tiger>
not even roasted or peking?
19:37
<@McMartin>
I suspect I just don't like duck.
19:37
<@McMartin>
I've had both - properly - and while Peking was the least bad, that was because there was less actual meat involved.
19:37
<@McMartin>
...and I just thought of somehting.
19:38
<@McMartin>
... and it didn't pan out.
19:38 * McMartin wondered if one of the actors had a name that sounded like "Curry" or something.
19:38
<@McMartin>
Anyway, off to lab.
19:39
<@C_tiger>
duck IS a little gamy... but if you don't like duck because of that, you probably shouldn't have venison or reindeer or other real game.
19:39
<@C_tiger>
farmed duck is hardly gamy at all.
19:42
<@McMartin>
Since I've also had duck in Random Conference Catering, and I really suspect those weren't game ducks, I'm suspecting it's some oil.
19:42
<@McMartin>
The flavor I was getting was extremely strong.
19:42
<@McMartin>
Though it's true that I haven't had venison or reindeer.
19:43
<@McMartin>
After all, I grew up in the desert.
19:44
<@C_tiger>
You should be able to get venison in CA.
19:44
<@C_tiger>
although you may not want to.
19:45
<@McMartin>
Northern CA, sure.
19:45
<@McMartin>
At least once, it's on the "what the Hell, why not" list.
19:45
<@McMartin>
Especially since it's unnatural to have eaten rattlesnake but not venison.
19:46
<@C_tiger>
Mmmm... snake.
19:46
<@C_tiger>
surprisingly bland.
19:46
<@C_tiger>
Being asian, I've eaten EVERYTHING.
19:46
<@C_tiger>
although I did not eat at all during the "endangered animal" buffet... it was worlds of disturbing.
19:48
<@McMartin>
That's past my line, thanks, yeah.
19:48
<@McMartin>
Having hung out with Asian nationals a lot, I get the opportunity to try many things once and then reject them outright.
19:49
<@McMartin>
I also have ap olicy of not eating anything I've dissected.
19:49
<@McMartin>
Though this is effectively accidental.
19:49
<@C_tiger>
In china, illegal = expensive = lengths clients go to impress my parents.
19:51
<@C_tiger>
Hmmm... no... I have no such policy.
19:51
<@C_tiger>
then again, I've dissected whole sheep before.
19:52
<@C_tiger>
and frogs (both of which I'd eat) ... and some animals I wouldn't eat because I've heard they taste NASTY.
19:52
<@McMartin>
I cheat because I only took one bio class
19:52
<@C_tiger>
Ah.
19:52
<@McMartin>
I already knew going in I didn't like squid.
19:53
<@C_tiger>
Well all my dissections were during high school.
19:53
<@McMartin>
And while I've dissected frog, it wasn't the leg.
19:53
<@McMartin>
So that basically leaves eyeballs and brains.
19:53
<@McMartin>
(I'm also uncomfortable eating octopi, and feel like I should be more uncomfortable eating pork, on sapience grounds)
19:54
<@McMartin>
(Cattle and sheep, no qualms)
19:54
<@McMartin>
(God damn, sheep are stupid)
19:54
<@C_tiger>
octopuses are smart... I have some qualms.
19:54
<@C_tiger>
pigs less so.
19:54
<@C_tiger>
There were monkey brains at the endangered animal feast.
19:55
<@McMartin>
>_<
19:55
<@gnolam>
Steve: Curry + Isomorphism operator + Howard the Duck = Howard-Curry isomorphism. That's it.
19:55
<@McMartin>
Sapience and genetic similarity grounds.
19:55
<@C_tiger>
howard curry?
19:55
<@McMartin>
Some pure math thing, I imagine.
19:55
<@McMartin>
Curry being a name.
19:55
<@gnolam>
s/Howard-Curry/Curry-Howard
19:55
<@McMartin>
Of a famous mathematician.
19:56
<@C_tiger>
ah.
19:56
<@McMartin>
Haskell Curry, if memory serves.
19:56
<@gnolam>
Yep.
19:56
<@gnolam>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry-Howard_correspondence
19:56
<@McMartin>
For which both Haskell, the language, and the operation of currying, in the lambda calculus and languages based on it, are named.
19:56
< Vornicus>
The only person to have /two/ programming languages named after him.
19:57
<@McMartin>
Curry isn't a language, it's an operation, isn't it?
19:57
<@McMartin>
(What about Ada vs. Ada 95~)
19:57
<@McMartin>
Anyway, lunch
19:58
<@McMartin>
Which, after this discussion, will probably be bread and a salad. >_<
19:58
<@C_tiger>
sorry.
19:58
<@C_tiger>
Let's talk pesticides.
19:58
<@McMartin>
No worries.
19:58
<@C_tiger>
drat.
19:58
<@McMartin>
(Monkey Brains: when you want to give the message "Here! Have delicious prions!")
19:58
<@gnolam>
C_tiger: ... endangered animal buffet?
19:59
<@C_tiger>
My dad is a big-name I-banker.
19:59
<@C_tiger>
with lots of chinese clients.
19:59
< Vornicus>
Curry is also a language
19:59
< Vornicus>
and Ada and Ada 95 are just one. :P
19:59
<@Steve>
ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL.
19:59
< Vornicus>
;_;
20:00
<@McMartin>
"C++: Increment C, then throw the value away"
20:00
<@McMartin>
(From the C++ standard, no less, for what postincrement means!)
20:00
<@McMartin>
Right, lunch for reals now
20:00
<@C_tiger>
enjoy.
20:00
<@McMartin>
like omg
20:02
<@gnolam>
I've never understood the Chinese fascination for trying to finish off endangered species. :P
20:03
<@C_tiger>
It's not, they just have a need to find insanely expensive things to impress others.
20:03
<@C_tiger>
and food is like bribery that disappears and can't be traced.
20:03
<@C_tiger>
That however was a particularly shady client.
20:04
<@C_tiger>
And even my dad was vaguely queasy about the concept.
20:06
<@gnolam>
:P
20:07
<@McMartin>
The thing is (he says, on the way out the door) is that that's less "insanely expensive" to Western eyes and more like "ordering unsolicited hits on the business competitors of the person you're trying to impres"
20:08
<@McMartin>
s
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21:51 Steve is now known as AnnoDomini
22:01
<@AnnoDomini>
Hm. I wonder how one would go about calculating the probability of N successes in M attempts, where each attempt has a known probability of A - failure, B - 1 success, C - 2 successes.
22:02
<@AnnoDomini>
I know how to do it with only a fail/win outcome possible, but this baffles me.
22:26
<@McMartin>
The closed form will involve binomial expansion.
22:26
<@McMartin>
Expected number of successes is easy.
22:27
<@McMartin>
M * (A*0 + B*1 + C*2), A + B + C = 1
22:28
<@McMartin>
Probability of 1 success = (M-1)*A + B
22:28
<@McMartin>
Er, and that all * M for which roll was 1 success
22:31
<@AnnoDomini>
I don't understand that last one.
22:32
<@McMartin>
OK
22:32
<@McMartin>
1 success in M rolls.
22:33
<@McMartin>
The only way to do this is with M-1 failures and one 1-success.
22:33
<@McMartin>
The chance of that is (M-1)*A + B, if the success comes last.
22:33
<@McMartin>
However, it can be any single one of them, so you have M choices.
22:34
<@McMartin>
So it's M * ((M-1)*A + B) as the probability of 1 success exactly.
22:34
<@McMartin>
2 is harder. It's that formula, but + C instead of B, for failures across the board and then one double success
22:34
<@McMartin>
Or (M choose 2) ways of getting two single successes and M-2 failures.
22:37
<@AnnoDomini>
M * ((M-1)*A + B) gives me a rather non 0..1 result, for M=10.
22:37
<@C_tiger>
AnnoDomini, it won't be a single formula... I'd personally write code to do it.
22:39
<@AnnoDomini>
I pondered doing it with some silly recursive thingie with multidimensional arrays.
22:39
<@C_tiger>
Sounds good.
22:39
<@C_tiger>
I'd do it recursively.
22:40
<@McMartin>
Is M fixed?
22:40
<@McMartin>
If so, exhaustive enumeration is probably the easiest, as long as it's reasonably small
22:40
<@McMartin>
It's exponential, but not very exponential.
22:40
<@C_tiger>
for each M,N get the odds of M-1, N-2 and M-1, N-1 and M-1, N and have at.
22:40
<@McMartin>
O(3^M)
22:41
<@C_tiger>
exactly.
22:41
<@AnnoDomini>
M is not fixed.
22:41
<@AnnoDomini>
But it shouldn't be higher than, say, 50.
22:42
<@McMartin>
Well, depending on M it'll vary.
22:42
<@McMartin>
3^50 will be excessive to do exhaustively
22:42
<@McMartin>
Dynamic programming might save you there.
22:42
<@C_tiger>
It's probably easy to approximate.
22:43
<@C_tiger>
although 50 isn't too much.
22:44
<@AnnoDomini>
I think it's a gaussian shape. The center is firmly at M/2.
22:44
<@C_tiger>
It's definitely gaussian.
22:45
<@C_tiger>
You can probably derive a formula for large M and N to get close.
22:49
<@MyCatVerbs>
Just be lazy and run a giant Monte Carlo. :P
22:49
<@AnnoDomini>
Lessee. 10 Attribute, 10 Ability, 3 Specialty, 20 from Excellency, 3 from Stunt... Yeah, 50 is about the limit.
22:50
<@AnnoDomini>
MyCatVerbs: A what?
22:50
<@MyCatVerbs>
AnnoDomini: Monte Carlo simulation. As in, hook up a good fast random number generator and, run it a few million times, plot the results.
22:51
<@AnnoDomini>
A solution that works. :D
22:51
<@MyCatVerbs>
a.k.a. the "fuckit, that'll probably be good enough" approach. ^_^
22:52
<@MyCatVerbs>
For bonus points, have it run for a fixed duration rather than a fixed number of iterations. Then set it to run for a couple hours and go cook a nice dinner. ^^
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23:37 * AnnoDomini writes such a script in mIRC scripts. Is hella slow, but accomplishes what it's meant to do.
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--- Log closed Tue May 06 00:00:06 2008
code logs -> 2008 -> Mon, 05 May 2008< code.20080504.log - code.20080506.log >
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