| --- Log opened Tue Feb 19 00:00:30 2008 |
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| 05:08 | < Reltzik> | Okay, a programmer shouldn't be getting this frustrated coming up with the right NAME for a class. |
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| 05:12 | <@AnnoDomini> | Reltzik: Just call it yourMom(). :P |
| 05:14 | < Reltzik> | Nonono. yourMom() is a method. I want a CLASS, which would hypothetically be DOING yourMom(). |
| 05:14 | <@Derakon> | YourMominator. |
| 05:17 | < Reltzik> | Seriously, I'm in Java doing wrappers for various basic types -- Booleans, Ints, etc -- but with the added feature of supporting listeners so that other classes are notified when the data changes. And I can't think of what to CALL the damned things! |
| 05:18 | <@Vornicus> | ListenableThingy |
| 05:18 | < Reltzik> | Bit long, but it beats my option of NeonThingy. |
| 05:18 | <@McMartin> | Publisher |
| 05:19 | | * Reltzik ponders making a Listenable class and making all of these things public inner classes, eg, Listenable.Boolean |
| 05:19 | <@Vornicus> | I don't know. This still seems wrong; you should be using reactive/passive calculation. |
| 05:20 | < Reltzik> | You mean on-demand rather than as-it-changes? |
| 05:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 05:21 | < Reltzik> | Well, 1, I'm on a bit of a tangent anyway, and 2, it makes better design sense to have the things affected by stat changes be responsible for updating themselves. |
| 05:21 | <@Vornicus> | I don't see /any/ advantages to using proactive calculation. |
| 05:21 | <@Vornicus> | At all. |
| 05:22 | < Reltzik> | Let's suppose the strength modifier changes. There are two ways to handle propogating the consequences of that. |
| 05:22 | <@Vornicus> | Three, actually |
| 05:22 | < Reltzik> | How 'bout I list my two and then you add the third? |
| 05:22 | < Reltzik> | ((Or fourth and fifth, perhaps.)) |
| 05:23 | < Reltzik> | 1st: You can have code IN YOUR STRENGTH MODIFIER CLASS (or whatever that class is) go to ALL the affected classes, and tell them, hey, I've changed! |
| 05:24 | <@Vornicus> | waugh |
| 05:24 | < Reltzik> | 2nd: You can put the code in the classes that are interested in the change, rather than in the changed class. Can we agree this is superior to 1? |
| 05:24 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, here's third and fourth. |
| 05:25 | <@Vornicus> | 3rd: You can have all the things that depend on one's strength, /check the strength/ each time it needs to figure out what its value is. |
| 05:25 | <@jerith> | (I'd make that the 0th.) |
| 05:25 | <@jerith> | Morning all, btw. |
| 05:26 | | * AnnoDomini blarghs. Morning? 'Tis still night. :( |
| 05:26 | <@Vornicus> | 4th... actually no, in this case lazy won't work, because there's too many things. |
| 05:26 | <@Derakon> | Retlzik: you remind me of a vector class I wrote a long while back that had public components and a pre-calculated magnitude. |
| 05:26 | < Reltzik> | Doesn't work with the GUI I have in mind. If you change the strength stat, the GUI should reflect that. |
| 05:26 | <@Derakon> | The upshot being that the pre-calculated magnitude was useless because you couldn't trust that it was accurate. |
| 05:26 | < Reltzik> | *should reflect all the changes. |
| 05:27 | <@Vornicus> | Relt: Sure it does; the thing is, you have to refreshthe whole gui when you change a stat. THis sucks, but you've got to do it /anyway/, so who cares. |
| 05:29 | | * Reltzik tries to put into words why this approach just feels wrong. |
| 05:30 | | * Reltzik thinks it has something to do with the Rules class he's envisioning. |
| 05:30 | < Reltzik> | Anyhow, thanks for the naming help. |
| 05:31 | <@jerith> | Many approaches that feel wrong are actually the best way to do things. |
| 05:31 | < Reltzik> | Well, I could make the performance argument, but this is Java. |
| 05:31 | <@jerith> | Programming is all about tradeoffs and the lesser of several weevils. |
| 05:31 | < Reltzik> | AKA, bugs. |
| 05:31 | <@jerith> | Like the argument I had yesterday. |
| 05:32 | < Reltzik> | Argument? What did you get called? |
| 05:32 | <@jerith> | We have one class that contains business logic and one that hits the db. |
| 05:33 | <@jerith> | I had some computation in the db class, which didn't really belong there. |
| 05:33 | <@jerith> | In this case, the business logic for that API call was just a wrapper that passed a complex data structure through to the db class. |
| 05:34 | | * Reltzik decides not to do the one class of all inner-classes. Very unconventional. |
| 05:34 | <@jerith> | So putting the computation in the business-logic class would require unpacking and repacking said structure. |
| 05:35 | < Reltzik> | Okay, so what was the tradeoff? |
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| 21:40 | <@Chalain> | Design question. I have a command-line utility that serves a similar purpose as apt, rpm, gem, piston, etc. One of the things you can ask it is if you need or want a given module. It gets the test suite for that module, and runs it without the module |
| 21:40 | <@Chalain> | installed. If the tests pass, it says "no". The question is this: what is the command for this? "tool want module" seems to me like it's *TELLING* tool to want module, not asking tool if it DOES want module. |
| 21:41 | <@Chalain> | Since most CLI's adhere to a syntax of "tool command object", I guess what I need is a word that is a command to investigate the necessity for a module, and report this status. |
| 21:41 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. |
| 21:43 | <@Chalain> | "tool investigate_need_for_module_and_report module" really doesn't roll off the tongue. |
| 21:43 | <@gnolam> | is-needed? :P |
| 21:43 | <@Chalain> | I would love to use "tool wants? module" but ? is a special character on a command line. |
| 21:43 | <@McMartin> | 'reqs' |
| 21:43 | <@McMartin> | And that's two commands. |
| 21:43 | <@McMartin> | needs-module and report-module. |
| 21:43 | <@Chalain> | reqsum? Darn near kill -9'd em! |
| 21:44 | <@Chalain> | Right... but "needs-module" again seems to imply to me a command: "I am telling you that you need this module". |
| 21:44 | <@Chalain> | HMMMMMMMM |
| 21:44 | <@gnolam> | And does the tool reply "DO NOT WANT" if the module is not needed? |
| 21:44 | <@McMartin> | Well, if you're going that route, wants? looks like it ends in the middle fo the sentence. |
| 21:44 | <@Chalain> | Hehe |
| 21:44 | <@McMartin> | gnolam: THAT'S IT |
| 21:45 | <@McMartin> | Clearly the command you want is: |
| 21:45 | <@McMartin> | tool can-haz cheezburger.i386 |
| 21:45 | <@Chalain> | tool can-haz--LOL |
| 21:45 | <@Chalain> | jinx |
| 21:45 | <@McMartin> | (Where is there not yet a libcheezburger?) |
| 21:45 | <@Chalain> | Where? Maybe some corners of C#. |
| 21:46 | <@Chalain> | Why? No one can say. |
| 21:46 | <@McMartin> | Er, yes. WHy |
| 21:46 | <@Chalain> | oh man. |
| 21:46 | | * McMartin needs fudz |
| 21:46 | | * McMartin can perhaps has cheezburger! |
| 21:46 | <@Chalain> | Now I wanna go write a cheezburger DSL. |
| 21:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | I think this needs to go in FtDoM. |
| 21:46 | <@Chalain> | Heh |
| 21:46 | <@McMartin> | (There is not yet a libcheezburger in libc, so "where is there not" is an easy question) |
| 21:47 | <@McMartin> | Is FtDoM like zOMGband? |
| 21:47 | <@Chalain> | def can-has(cheezburger); raise DoNotWant unless WANT; end |
| 21:47 | <@Chalain> | in other news, hi all. How's folks? |
| 21:48 | <@McMartin> | I haven't had lunch yet. Going to fix that now. |
| 21:49 | <@Chalain> | Cheers |
| 21:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | McMartin: It's a thread for wacky IRC dialogs over at the Nightstar Zoo. |
| 22:16 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
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| --- Log closed Wed Feb 20 00:00:28 2008 |