| --- Log opened Thu Feb 14 00:00:57 2008 |
| 00:06 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | I think there is, but I don't know what it is offhand |
| 00:41 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@83.21.9.ns-27295] has quit [Quit: If nothing we do matters, all that matters is that we do.] |
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| 01:26 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:26 | <@Derakon> | EvilDarkLord: I believe that -append or +append will do what you want. One does vertical, the other horizontal. |
| 02:15 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 02:15 | < Vornicus-Latens> | imagemagick has waaaay too much going on in it. |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Hence my answer "Sure, it's gotta be able to do that. Somehow." |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | Imagemagick is totally awesome. |
| 02:19 | <@McMartin> | Even if it uses the Emo Pretentious Spelling. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | I use it all the time for easily resizing images, rotating them, making them into GIFs, etc. |
| 02:20 | <@Derakon> | The spelling is silly though, yes. |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | "Not pretentious enough! Henceforth it must be Magiq" |
| 02:23 | | * Derakon snerks. |
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| 08:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 12:36 | <@Reiver> | "Believe it or not, 022101102 people (counted in trinary, of course) have so far have expressed an interest in programming in Malbolge! Note that if your first impression is that counting visitors in trinary is rather inconvenient, then you are missing the point of Malbolge altogether." |
| 12:39 | < Vornotron> | 6113 people! |
| 12:39 | | Vornotron is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 12:40 | <@Reiver> | Which is really quite a large number... <g> |
| 12:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | Malbolge? Is that the one with the syntax dependant on character position? |
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| 13:21 | <@TheWatcher> | McMartin: java-relatedish question. Have you ever used gcj, or know of how good/bad it may be? |
| 13:21 | <@McMartin> | Ahahaha |
| 13:21 | <@McMartin> | OK, so |
| 13:21 | <@McMartin> | ecj is decent, but not really as good as Sun's. But it does the job. |
| 13:21 | <@McMartin> | I was using gcj back when it added infinite loops to my code. |
| 13:22 | <@McMartin> | And bitching about it then just got you a bunch of bitter rants about Sun not GPLing java.awt.* |
| 13:22 | <@McMartin> | Despite that fact that I wasn't using anything outside of java.lang and java.io in that program |
| 13:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Okies, thanks |
| 13:22 | <@McMartin> | Sun's compiler is preferable, but ecj is the standard one these days, and I think it's being folded back into gcc proper. |
| 13:23 | <@McMartin> | Eclipse uses ecj by default (e = Eclipse) |
| 13:24 | | * TheWatcher nods |
| 13:24 | <@McMartin> | Also, the ecj guys actually fixed the specific compiler bugs I reported >_> |
| 13:40 | <@Reiver> | They didn't GPL the whole thing? Huh. |
| 13:40 | <@McMartin> | Reiver: This was in 2000. |
| 13:40 | <@Reiver> | Oh, right. |
| 13:40 | <@Reiver> | Carry on then~ |
| 13:40 | <@Reiver> | (Sorry. I was just doublechecking I hadn't missed something obvious in the recent GPLing.) |
| 13:41 | <@McMartin> | Well, there are still patent/third party encumbrances that they've been working on sorting out. |
| 13:41 | <@McMartin> | Which is why the VM was released first, and the runtime is coming out in pieces. |
| 13:41 | <@McMartin> | Not that anybody uses the bits of AWT that were actual sticking points these days anyway. =P |
| 13:41 | | * Reiver nod. |
| 13:42 | <@Reiver> | (AWT does what, out of interest? It possibly says something I can't even remember what it does.) |
| 13:42 | <@McMartin> | (Abstract Window Toolkit. The predecessor to Swing. Swing uses bits of it, but they tend to be things like reifications of mouse clicks and stuff.) |
| 13:43 | <@Reiver> | ...ohhh, right. |
| 13:43 | <@Reiver> | I knew I recognised the name, but in a 'never need to use it' sense. |
| 13:43 | <@McMartin> | java.awt.event is still in use, though. |
| 13:43 | <@McMartin> | But, well, they were too busy throwing tantrums. |
| 13:45 | <@Reiver> | Aha |
| 13:45 | <@Reiver> | Carry on then. |
| 13:45 | <@Reiver> | (God Swing hurts my meindmeats ;_;) |
| 13:47 | <@McMartin> | (AWT was worse, as it was trying to be MFC, X11, and the CDE all at once.) |
| 13:48 | <@Reiver> | (...wut. *sob*) |
| 13:48 | <@McMartin> | (Yeah, pretty much. Hence "NOW ALL DIE, we're just going to draw all our widgets on rectangles of pixels, kthx") |
| 13:49 | <@McMartin> | (Anyway, it looks like I will soon need to contend with Swing.) |
| 13:49 | <@gnolam> | Ech. Java GUIs. |
| 13:50 | <@McMartin> | I've had a terrible time with WinGTK, and GTK doesn't play sufficiently nicely with OS X anyway. |
| 13:50 | <@gnolam> | Last I checked, AWT/Swing didn't play nice with /anything/... :) |
| 13:50 | <@McMartin> | I hear there are interface builders and stuff for it, but given how simple the UI is for this (a list you pick files off of, with two staus windows, basically) I'll live. |
| 13:51 | <@McMartin> | When was the last you checked? Swing's been client-usable since about 1.4. |
| 13:51 | <@McMartin> | And doesn't now (if in fact it ever did) require X11.app under OS X. |
| 13:52 | <@McMartin> | The default Java L&F is ridiculously awful, but that's a large part of the reason why nobody ever uses it. |
| 13:52 | <@gnolam> | 2006 I think. |
| 13:52 | <@McMartin> | And Swing's been able to convincingly fake being MFC at least for three major releases now. GTK, a bit less so, and I have yet to test it on OS X. |
| 13:53 | <@McMartin> | SWT looks really nice but is by design entirely nonportable. |
| 13:53 | <@McMartin> | (The GUI I'm replicating is this one: http://blorple.sf.net/ ) |
| 13:55 | <@McMartin> | With luck, I'll be able to make the image scalable, since I could not coerce PyGTK to do that for love or money. |
| 13:55 | <@TheWatcher> | McM: the 'standard' GUI designer these days for GTK seems to be glade, with libglade handling the loading, widget tree cration and callback hooking for you |
| 13:55 | <@TheWatcher> | *creation |
| 13:55 | <@McMartin> | TW: Yes, but that doesn't solve either of my other two problems. |
| 13:56 | <@McMartin> | That being (a) WinGTK is a piece of shit, and (b) MacGTK cannot interact with the OS proper. |
| 13:58 | <@McMartin> | (With a small side of "Self-contained Python applications on Windows turn out to be more trouble than they're really worth) |
| 14:03 | <@Reiver> | MFC? |
| 14:03 | <@McMartin> | Microsoft Foundation Classes. The "official" MS GUI. |
| 14:03 | <@Reiver> | ...I knew that. >.> |
| 14:04 | | * Reiver concludes he sholud stop asking stupid questions at 3AM; goes to grab his slepping pills. |
| 14:32 | | * TheWatcher hits Reiv over the head with with Unix Network Programming, Vol 1, 2nd Ed. |
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| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: out of curiosity, what problems did you have with winGTK? |
| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since at some point, I'm going to have to deal with that... |
| 14:57 | <@gnolam> | (Besides the non-nativeness?) |
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| 20:48 | <@McMartin> | TF: Gaim was wildly unstable. X-Chat maintained parallel constructs that would not talk to the OS. |
| 20:48 | <@McMartin> | So copying a link in X-Chat would only let you cut-and-paste between channels, not into the browser. |
| 21:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...which build of xchat were you using? |
| 21:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | I never had that problem with silverex. |
| 21:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | (select/middle-click only worked within GTK, but ^C/^V worked just fine) |
| 21:11 | <@McMartin> | I was in fact using Silverex's version, and ^C/^V were similarly borked. |
| 21:11 | <@McMartin> | As were Ctrl/Shift Insert. |
| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Weirdness. |
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| 23:00 | <@EvilDarkLord> | Is there a way of killing an SSH connection from computer C to computer B with a command to computer B, assuming that it's your username that's doing the connecting? |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Kill the shell it's attached to. |
| 23:29 | <@EvilDarkLord> | So each new SSH connection creates a new shell? |
| 23:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:41 | <@EvilDarkLord> | Yay, it is ded. Thanks, TF. |
| 23:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | TF: It's entirely possible that my experiences with WinGTK were flukes, but there have been enough of them that I have a personal dislike and distrust of the system. |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | Much like my suspicion of gcj, despite all the good work the Eclipse folk have done with it. |
| 23:46 | | * McMartin flips through the Java-on-OS-X documents. |
| 23:46 | <@McMartin> | Well, this is more work than I'd like, but still not too much. |
| 23:46 | | * McMartin has to set some defines at run time to make it work right, it looks like. |
| 23:58 | <@McMartin> | Oooh, and it actually plays right with the Dock by default, unlike SDL. =P |
| --- Log closed Fri Feb 15 00:00:04 2008 |