| --- Log opened Tue Jan 08 00:00:50 2008 |
| 00:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 07:40 | < Reiver> | ...why do my blank DVD-Rs (new packet, freshly opened) all show up in windows as having .cda files on them? |
| 08:11 | < C_tiger> | Are they in your DVD drive? |
| 08:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 09:24 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:27 | < orthiat> | Uh. Yes? |
| 09:34 | < C_tiger> | I thought I'd ask, DVDs do funny things when I accidentally put them in my CD drive. |
| 09:42 | | * McMartin patchbombs UQM again for the third time in a week. |
| 09:56 | < orthiat> | Oh, right. Yeah, only have one drive. I lack the IDE cables as it is~ |
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| 17:42 | | Doctor_Nick [~nick@Nightstar-5213.cs.fsu.edu] has joined #code |
| 17:43 | < Doctor_Nick> | Hey, does anyone know where I might find a good guide to C for C++ users? |
| 17:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | On the intertubes. </snark> |
| 17:46 | < Doctor_Nick> | =( |
| 17:46 | < Doctor_Nick> | I searched google, but the guides i've found were for the other way around, c++ for c users |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Going from C++ to C isn't nearly as involved as the converse, since C++ is for the most part a superset of C. |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Use malloc/free instead of new/delete, structs instead of classes, no templates, no operator overloads, no RAII, and <stdio.h> instead of <iostream> |
| 17:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | printf() instead of cout. :P |
| 17:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | Yeah, I know, but my fear is that students that just know C++ are going to have trouble with dynamic allocation and c strings |
| 17:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | so they're going to get alot of segfaults for their first programs |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Allocation in C is pretty much the same as in C++, except it's malloc(sizeof(foo)) instead of new foo. |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and free(foo) instead of delete foo) |
| 17:50 | < Doctor_Nick> | Yeah |
| 17:50 | < Doctor_Nick> | I should have said allocation in general |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | The only gotcha there for a C++ programmer is that you don't get constructors, but by the time you're allocating structs you're already well aware of that. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, ctors or dtors, but my point stands) |
| 17:51 | < Doctor_Nick> | Yes |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as strings go, unless you're using the STL, they're the same in both languages |
| 17:52 | < Doctor_Nick> | I'm assuming they are used to the STL strings |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Honestly, I suspect the problems will be more in adapting to the C stdlib than in any differences in the language itself, assuming they have two brain cells to rub together to begin with. |
| 17:53 | < Doctor_Nick> | I have to assume the worst :P |
| 17:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | And if they don't, you're fucked no matter the teaching regimen. |
| 17:54 | < Doctor_Nick> | Alot of my concern has to do with the Programming Languages class I took, where most of the students bitched and bitched and bitched that they had to learn new languages, and what nerve the professor had in assuming that they could pick up a new language relatively quickly |
| 17:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | So I want to ease the transition as much as possible |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...if they can't pick up a new language relatively quickly, perhaps they're in the wrong program. |
| 17:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | That's what I'm saying |
| 17:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | but that's not my call to make |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, once they've had say a year of instruction in the fundamentals, and if the new language is tolerably similar to the old) |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or if they're upper-year students) |
| 17:56 | < Doctor_Nick> | this is a senior level class |
| 17:56 | < Doctor_Nick> | (I'm TAing for Operating Systems, by the way) |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Senior level is what year, 3rd? 4th? |
| 17:56 | < Doctor_Nick> | 4th |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Throw them into the deep end. |
| 17:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | By this point they already know C++ and should know at least two or three other languages besides. |
| 17:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | doubtful |
| 17:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 17:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | I'm betting most of them only know C++, some know c, a few know java/C# |
| 17:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | And they're in fourth year? |
| 17:58 | < Doctor_Nick> | Yeah :/ |
| 17:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wtf>? |
| 17:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | The problem is that all the classes up to this point only required knowledge of C++ |
| 17:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | so that's all they used |
| 17:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | You have to take programming electives, and most of them took java/C# |
| 17:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 18:00 | < Doctor_Nick> | so, when they hit operating systems and programming languages, they are pretty much throw in into the deep end |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Here, you're expected to be fluent in C, Java, and Python by the end of second year, and have at least a working knowledge of bash and make. |
| 18:00 | < Doctor_Nick> | yeah, that would be nice |
| 18:06 | | Doctor_Nick is now known as drnicklunch |
| 18:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Still, I stand by my statement. If, after four years of programming, they can't pick up new languages in a few weeks - and especially if they can't pick up C after using C++ for those four years - they should probably be reconsidering their major. |
| 18:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 18:30 | < drnicklunch> | ToxicFrog: I'm in agreement |
| 18:48 | | drnicklunch is now known as Doctor_Nick |
| 18:55 | | * Vornicus-Latens agrees that you should be able to "pick up" a new language in a few weeks. But to be able to think the way a language wants you to think is a much more difficult proposition. |
| 18:55 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 19:01 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wate |
| 19:02 | <@TheWatcher> | can't pick up c after using c++, what?! |
| 19:03 | < Vornicus> | i can almost see it, if you /completely ignore every error it ever gives you/ |
| 19:03 | < Vornicus> | But |
| 19:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Just thinking about that gives me these shooting pains in my temples. |
| 19:04 | < Vornicus> | idunno. In some ways I think it's almost harder to learn a language near those you know than one a long way away. |
| 19:04 | | * TheWatcher shrugs, has never had that problems |
| 19:05 | < Vornicus> | I've had 'problems' but they were "dammit why do I keep doing $FOO I know it doesn't work in this language!" |
| 19:10 | < Vornicus> | Which is pretty normal. |
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| 19:37 | | Vornotron is now known as Vornicus |
| 19:37 | | * Vornicus fiddles, determines he needs to use circle sections as opposed to beziers |
| 20:08 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: major? I think they should be reconsidering their species. |
| 20:08 | < Doctor_Nick> | hahaha |
| 20:09 | < Doctor_Nick> | "i wanted to be a dog but it turns out they don't make that much =(" |
| 20:09 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: anyone who can't hack C after four years of C++ surely isn't intellectual competition for anything smarter than tree frogs. |
| 20:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | I mean... Jesus. Same thing, but with less features. What's not to understand? oO |
| 20:10 | < Doctor_Nick> | I think they'll be able to hack it, but they have to hack it in 2 weeks because the first project is due then |
| 20:12 | < Doctor_Nick> | and I think the most problems are going to be with using c-style strings, because the first project is mostly about how to parse those |
| 20:15 | < MyCatVerbs> | Parse? What level of sophistication are we talking here? Parsing a context-free grammar, you mean, or just churning out a hundred-LOC string-mangler that any sane person would do in ten minutes with a regex? |
| 20:26 | < Doctor_Nick> | the last one |
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| 20:52 | <@gnolam> | Doctor_Nick: they'll probably write horrible (read: non-standard stuff that probably still compiles) C code, but they shouldn't have any problems whatsoever generally... /using/ the language. |
| 20:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | I hope so |
| 20:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | the quality of the assignments reflects on me when it comes to accrediation time :P |
| 21:00 | | C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-5325.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #code |
| 21:03 | | * gnolam offers condolences. |
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| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Parsing strings in C is Doing It Wrong~ |
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| 23:32 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-28320.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | < Alek> | firstly: can you layer animated gifs, with transparency, to produce a composite image? |
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| 23:40 | <@Vornicus> | Alek: so what's your problem? |
| 23:40 | | * Vornicus didn't see, was pinglicious |
| 23:42 | < Alek> | firstly: can you layer animated gifs, with transparency, to produce a composite image? |
| 23:43 | <@Vornicus> | If your system handles that, sure |
| 23:44 | <@Vornicus> | Generally I wouldn't recommend it though; web browsers can be picky about that sort of thing in a bunch of different ways, and if you're using a graphics lib you're probably better off doing it another way. |
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| 23:45 | < Alek> | just making a single anigif out of those would probably make way too huge a file... |
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| 23:46 | < Alek> | hm. can you use javascript or some such weblanguage to manipulate graphical elements like, say, clock hands? |
| 23:49 | <@Vornicus> | You can replace them |
| 23:50 | <@Vornicus> | but general manipulation is beyond the scope of javascript |
| 23:50 | < Alek> | replace, hm. how so? |
| 23:51 | <@Vornicus> | You tell the img element to change its src argument |
| 23:51 | <@Vornicus> | though, I think you might be able to do this with css - use the z-index thing and absolute positioning. |
| 23:52 | < Alek> | hmm. |
| 23:52 | | * Alek nods. |
| 23:53 | < Alek> | ok, finally, is there a way to start from specific non-first frames of anigifs? |
| 23:53 | <@Vornicus> | not that I am aware of. |
| 23:54 | <@Vornicus> | If that's what you want you will /definitely/ want to work via javascript. |
| 23:55 | < Alek> | mm |
| 23:56 | < Alek> | I want to make an analog clock face, synched to real time. WITHOUT using something big like flash. |
| 23:57 | <@gnolam> | Web-based? |
| 23:57 | | * gnolam didn't read the backscroll. |
| 23:57 | <@gnolam> | Sorry. |
| 23:59 | < Alek> | yes. |
| 23:59 | < Alek> | web-based. |
| 23:59 | < Alek> | to go on a web page. |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 09 00:00:57 2008 |