| --- Log opened Tue Dec 11 00:00:30 2007 |
| 00:11 | | ChalcyNap is now known as Chalcedon |
| 00:27 | | gnoham [lenin@85.8.5.ns-20483] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 00:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:55 | | Vornicus [~vorn@ServicesOp.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 00:58 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:58 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 01:10 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | 17:53 <@Randolph> News: Starbase Warfare Allowed Again |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | 17:53 <@Randolph> (lol QA) |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | 17:54 < McMartin> Your shipment of fail has been temporarily delayed |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | 17:55 <@Randolph> FAIL, QTY: 1, STATUS: in stock [BUY IT NOW] |
| 01:56 | <@Reiver> | ? |
| 01:57 | <@Reiver> | Oh, seige weapons? |
| 01:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | yeah |
| 01:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | ccp is fuckin us again |
| 01:57 | <@Reiver> | One must wonder how the hell they got it /wrong/, and all. |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | The "blows away your boot config" was apparently an extra backslash combined with an utterly braindead file naming scheme. |
| 01:59 | < Doctor_Nick> | this whole fiasco has made me want to quit the game |
| 01:59 | <@Reiver> | ...wait, what |
| 02:00 | <@McMartin> | So, before the "PvP is now a bannable offense, lol" bit I was posting the bits regarding "If you install the premium graphics update, your machine will no longer boot" stuff. |
| 02:00 | <@McMartin> | Becuase it would delete C:\boot.ini as part of the install process. |
| 02:00 | <@McMartin> | Instead of, well, {EVE Install dir}\boot.ini. |
| 02:00 | < Doctor_Nick> | only on XP though! |
| 02:02 | <@Reiver> | ... |
| 02:02 | <@Reiver> | I... see. |
| 02:03 | <@Reiver> | And this escaped beta testing how? |
| 02:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | i dont know |
| 02:04 | < Doctor_Nick> | a myth 2 patch reformatted the partition it was on |
| 02:04 | < Doctor_Nick> | how did that escape beta testing? WHO KNOWS?! |
| 02:05 | <@McMartin> | I thought that was the Myth 2 uninstaller.l |
| 02:05 | < Doctor_Nick> | rite |
| 02:10 | <@Reiver> | I guess that's a thorough method of uninstalling...~ |
| 02:11 | | * McMartin will guess it slipped through beta testing since they were testing on a scratch drive. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | "Yup, it's gone." |
| 02:12 | | * Reiver nods. |
| 02:41 | | ilovefire [~santros_v@209.82.191.ns-11321] has joined #code |
| 02:45 | <@Vornicus> | So, I really only have two things I wish to teach you, and then I think we can do a more complicated Exercise. |
| 02:46 | <@Vornicus> | The first thing, is xrange. |
| 02:46 | <@Vornicus> | Try this: for k in xrange(5): print k |
| 02:46 | < Doctor_Nick> | XRAAAANGGE!!! WOOO! |
| 02:46 | <@Vornicus> | (with appropriate newlining and indenting) |
| 02:49 | < ilovefire> | gives me 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4. In seperate lines. |
| 02:49 | <@Vornicus> | okay, now try: for k in xrange(2,5): print k |
| 02:50 | < ilovefire> | gives me 2, 3, and 4. |
| 02:51 | <@Vornicus> | and now: for k in xrange(0,10,2) |
| 02:51 | <@Vornicus> | (with the other goodies in there too) |
| 02:51 | < ilovefire> | gives me 0, 2, 4, 6, and 8. |
| 02:51 | <@Vornicus> | See how xrange works now? |
| 02:51 | < ilovefire> | Yes. |
| 02:52 | <@Vornicus> | Good. |
| 02:52 | <@Vornicus> | now, the other thing I want to show you, is break. |
| 02:52 | <@Vornicus> | What if we find ourselves in a loop, and want to stop, because some condition has been met? |
| 02:52 | < ilovefire> | Let me guess, put in a break |
| 02:52 | < ilovefire> | ? |
| 02:52 | <@Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 02:53 | <@Vornicus> | break takes you past the very end of the innermost loop we're in. |
| 02:53 | | * ilovefire nods. "And we do that how?" |
| 02:53 | < ilovefire> | Ah, okay |
| 02:54 | <@Vornicus> | for k in xrange(10): print "trying",k; if 77 % k == 0: print k,"works!"; break |
| 02:55 | <@Vornicus> | ...oh, that won't work |
| 02:55 | <@Vornicus> | for k in xrange(2,10): print "trying",k; if 77 % k == 0: print k,"works!"; break |
| 02:55 | <@Vornicus> | that will. |
| 02:55 | <@Vornicus> | (the previous would give divide-by-zero) |
| 02:56 | | Vornicus changed the topic of #Code to: It's like swiss bank accounts, but for coders! | Have a pastebin! http://rafb.net/paste | Channel mode +U, ask for voice to post links. |
| 02:57 | | mode/#code [+oo Doctor_Nick ilovefire] by Vornicus |
| 02:59 | <@Vornicus> | break is another keyword, so you know the drill. |
| 03:00 | | * ilovefire nods. |
| 03:00 | | * ilovefire also updates his referance .txt. |
| 03:01 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. Those are the two things I wanted to teach. Now, for the Exercise: write a program that finds all the prime numbers from 0 to 1000, and prints them. |
| 03:02 | <@Vornicus> | from 2 to 1000, rather; 0 and 1 are neither prime nor composite, and should not be talked about. |
| 03:02 | | * ilovefire nods. |
| 03:02 | <@Vornicus> | I expect you to have a lot of questions; do not hesitate to ask. |
| 03:06 | <@ilovefire> | Umm, Lesse. |
| 03:08 | | * ilovefire gets lost rather quickly. |
| 03:09 | <@Vornicus> | How do you tell if a number is prime? |
| 03:09 | <@ilovefire> | if it is only divisible by itself and one. |
| 03:10 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. So, it's not divisible by any other numbers. |
| 03:10 | <@ilovefire> | Right... |
| 03:10 | <@Vornicus> | But, do we have to check every other number? |
| 03:11 | <@ilovefire> | Probably not, I'd say. |
| 03:12 | <@Vornicus> | Well, is a number ever divisible by a number larger than it? |
| 03:12 | <@ilovefire> | No. |
| 03:12 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 03:13 | <@Vornicus> | So we don't have to check numbers larger than it, or equal to it (because every number is divisible by itself, so it doesn't make sense to check), or smaller than 2. |
| 03:13 | <@Vornicus> | But there's something else. |
| 03:13 | <@Vornicus> | http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FundamentalTheoremofArithmetic.html <--- mee the Fundamental Theorem Of Arithmetic. |
| 03:14 | <@ilovefire> | Is this going to make my brain hurt? |
| 03:14 | <@Vornicus> | not really. |
| 03:14 | <@Vornicus> | What it says is, every number can be expressed as a product of prime numbers in exactly one way. |
| 03:14 | <@ilovefire> | Okay. |
| 03:15 | <@ilovefire> | So, is, um... for some reason I get the feeling factorization is going to be involved? |
| 03:15 | <@Vornicus> | So, here's the question: given a number n and a smaller number k such that n is divisible by k, Are there any numbers p such that k is divisible by p, but n is /not/ divisible by p? |
| 03:16 | <@ilovefire> | ... Okay. |
| 03:16 | <@ilovefire> | Give me a moment so I can wrap my brain around that. |
| 03:16 | <@Vornicus> | okay. |
| 03:18 | <@ilovefire> | so, basically, something like, err. |
| 03:18 | <@ilovefire> | n, k < n, n/k is an integer, k/p is an integer, n/p is not? |
| 03:18 | <@Vornicus> | Right. oh, and n, k, and p are integers, and p < k |
| 03:19 | | * ilovefire nods. |
| 03:19 | <@Vornicus> | (for the record, this is laying a groundwork to create an algorithm that will tell you if a given number is prime, if you have the primes below it) |
| 03:19 | <@ilovefire> | Now, I have to translate this into some sort of list, yes? |
| 03:20 | <@Vornicus> | Well, eventually. Right now we're just figuring out what it is we have to do. |
| 03:20 | <@Vornicus> | This should be some figuring, and we're not even looking at Python yet. |
| 03:21 | | C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-5378.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #code |
| 03:21 | | * ilovefire scratches his head. "Now is probably a bad time to realize just how bad I am at math... |
| 03:21 | <@ilovefire> | " |
| 03:21 | < C_tiger> | There's #math for that. |
| 03:21 | <@Vornicus> | Heh. |
| 03:22 | <@Vornicus> | Consider this. |
| 03:22 | <@Vornicus> | Given n/k and k/p, can you get n/p? |
| 03:22 | <@Doctor_Nick> | you're a math |
| 03:22 | <@Vornicus> | (this should be /obvious/) |
| 03:23 | < C_tiger> | Hey Doctor Nick |
| 03:23 | <@ilovefire> | if n = k, and k = p, but umm, then n = p so it'd just be one so I'm wrong, in all likelyhood. |
| 03:23 | <@Doctor_Nick> | hay |
| 03:24 | <@Vornicus> | You're thinking in the wrong direction: what do you have to do to n/k and k/p to get n/p? |
| 03:24 | <@ilovefire> | remove the k? |
| 03:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | ilovefire: remember in algebra where you would do multiplying and dividing to get rid of terms |
| 03:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | do that |
| 03:24 | <@ilovefire> | Doctor, it's been three years since I had a decent algebra teachers. |
| 03:24 | <@ilovefire> | ... teacher. |
| 03:25 | <@Doctor_Nick> | =( |
| 03:25 | < C_tiger> | Ok, trial and error. What happens when you multiply them, what happens when you divide them? |
| 03:26 | <@ilovefire> | well, if you multiply both of them by k, then sort of add them together somehow... this is probably wrong as well. |
| 03:26 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, that's not it. |
| 03:26 | <@Vornicus> | You don't have to multiply them both by anything. |
| 03:27 | < C_tiger> | Ok, how do you multiply fractions? |
| 03:27 | <@ilovefire> | wait, fractions? D'oh, I was treating them like, err, well, a statement of division. |
| 03:27 | < C_tiger> | Which are essentially fractions. |
| 03:27 | <@ilovefire> | You multiply, umm... diagonally is the best way I can put it? |
| 03:27 | <@Vornicus> | not diagonally. |
| 03:27 | < C_tiger> | A fraction is just the top number divided by the bottom number. |
| 03:27 | <@ilovefire> | the... top one and the... bottom one on the next one, and the bottom on the first by the top on the seocnd? |
| 03:28 | < C_tiger> | That's addition... sortof. |
| 03:28 | <@ilovefire> | Oh. |
| 03:28 | <@ilovefire> | err. |
| 03:28 | < C_tiger> | Ok, concrete examples. |
| 03:28 | < C_tiger> | What is 1/2 of 1/3? |
| 03:30 | <@ilovefire> | 1/6. |
| 03:30 | < C_tiger> | Ok, one more example: what is 1/2 of 3/4? |
| 03:31 | <@ilovefire> | 3/8... |
| 03:31 | < C_tiger> | Great. How did you do that? |
| 03:31 | <@Vornicus> | and what's 2/3 of 3/5? |
| 03:32 | <@ilovefire> | ... I, umm, mupliplied the... bottoms together, adn the tops? (this would be easier if I could remember which one was the numerator and which was the denominator.) |
| 03:32 | <@ilovefire> | ... *multiplied. |
| 03:32 | < C_tiger> | Numerator is on top. |
| 03:32 | <@ilovefire> | Also it would be easier if I could spell. |
| 03:32 | <@ilovefire> | Okay. |
| 03:32 | < C_tiger> | Right. |
| 03:32 | <@Vornicus> | Yes, and right. |
| 03:32 | < C_tiger> | So now, on to Vorn's question: 2/3 * 3/5 |
| 03:34 | <@ilovefire> | 6/15, which can be simplified to 2/5. |
| 03:34 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 03:34 | <@Vornicus> | now, n/k * k/p |
| 03:35 | <@ilovefire> | kn/kp, which can be simplified to n/p? |
| 03:35 | < C_tiger> | Yay! |
| 03:35 | <@Vornicus> | Now, we know n/k and k/p are integers. |
| 03:36 | <@Vornicus> | Do there exist, in all the universe, two integers that when multiplied together give something that's /not/ an integer? |
| 03:37 | <@ilovefire> | no. |
| 03:37 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. So, then, for any number n, to see if it's divisible by some k, you need only see if it's divisible by the things k is divisible by. |
| 03:37 | < C_tiger> | Yep, because Z is closed under multiplication. |
| 03:38 | <@Vornicus> | C: ;_; |
| 03:38 | < C_tiger> | Sorry. |
| 03:38 | < C_tiger> | Ignore me. |
| 03:38 | < C_tiger> | It just occurred to me what Vorn is trying to do? |
| 03:39 | <@Doctor_Nick> | math! |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | So, any number k, what's it divisible by? |
| 03:40 | <@ilovefire> | Well, depends on what number k is, but most definately at least 1 and k. |
| 03:40 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, what other numbers could k be divisible by. |
| 03:42 | <@ilovefire> | Without knowing what number k is, I really can't tell... or am I missing something again? |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | Well, if k is prime, the only numbers it's divisible by are 1 and k, right. But if k is composite, you can divide it by some other numbers. |
| 03:44 | <@ilovefire> | Right... |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | And those numbers could be prime or composite. |
| 03:44 | <@ilovefire> | Right... |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | And if those numbers are composite, you can divide those by other numbers. |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | And /those/ numbers could be prime or composite. |
| 03:45 | < C_tiger> | Prime factorization is the fancy word for it. |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | but... it only goes so far down. Eventually you run out of numbers that aren't prime. |
| 03:45 | | * ilovefire nods. |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | And, indeed, eventually all numbers end up being divisible by primes. |
| 03:46 | <@ilovefire> | So, just theoretically, if you could find the largest prime number in a set, then you could use that to find all other prime numbers, or...? |
| 03:46 | <@Vornicus> | So, since we can certify that a number n is not divisible by a number k if there is a number p that divides k but not n... |
| 03:47 | <@Vornicus> | And since there's always a pile of primes at the bottom of the chain of numbers that k is divisible by... |
| 03:47 | < C_tiger> | Ok... as much as I love number theory... |
| 03:47 | <@Vornicus> | Do we really need to test composite numbers? |
| 03:47 | <@ilovefire> | Err... no? |
| 03:47 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 03:47 | < C_tiger> | We're doing this by sieving? |
| 03:48 | <@ilovefire> | Urg... bad news, I have to log off in ten minutes. |
| 03:48 | <@Vornicus> | C_tiger: yes. |
| 03:48 | <@Vornicus> | ilf: dang. |
| 03:48 | < C_tiger> | Can't we just do it by test division? |
| 03:48 | <@ilovefire> | Good news, with all this there's a good chance I'll be dreaming about numbers tonight. |
| 03:48 | <@Vornicus> | Seiving and test division are the same thing! |
| 03:49 | < C_tiger> | I thought sieving means going through and striking every second number, then every third, etc. |
| 03:49 | <@Vornicus> | Well, okay, the difference is, seiving you start with a big list of numbers, and test division you don't. |
| 03:49 | < C_tiger> | Test division means testing each number one at a time. |
| 03:50 | <@Vornicus> | it's like breadth-first vs. depth-first. |
| 03:50 | < C_tiger> | Yeah, but one is a whole lot easier to explain. |
| 03:51 | < C_tiger> | Ok, totally backtracking ilf, so you can solve this before you leave: how would you test if a single number was prime? |
| 03:52 | <@ilovefire> | Go down a list of numbers between that number and one, and see if it's divisible by any of them? |
| 03:52 | < C_tiger> | Great. |
| 03:52 | < C_tiger> | So can you write a piece of code to do that? |
| 03:53 | <@Vornicus> | (hint: a is divisible by b if a % b == 0) |
| 03:54 | <@ilovefire> | C: I could, yes, but I was just told to go ahead and shut down the computer. but it'd go something like def something things with things... argh, sorry. |
| 03:54 | < C_tiger> | Ok, think about it. |
| 03:55 | | * ilovefire will, will try to write it tommarrow. |
| 03:55 | < C_tiger> | Ok. |
| 03:56 | < C_tiger> | You can always try the programmer's favorite: the pencil-paper code. |
| 03:56 | <@Vornicus> | Python is executable pseudocode! :P |
| 03:56 | | ilovefire [~santros_v@209.82.191.ns-11321] has quit [Quit: Hmm, is it NORMAL for this, err, sort of jellyfish looking thing, with, umm, the fangs to be, well, humping my face? I also feel weak for some reason...] |
| 03:56 | <@Doctor_Nick> | yeah |
| 03:56 | <@Doctor_Nick> | pencil and paper code is by far the most reliable |
| 03:56 | <@Doctor_Nick> | it's just really slow! |
| 03:57 | < C_tiger> | I used to hate it. |
| 03:57 | < C_tiger> | Go into exams and have to write programs by hand. |
| 03:57 | <@Vornicus> | I nearly killed the one guy who tried that on me. |
| 03:57 | < C_tiger> | I only took two CS classes, both had pencil-only finals. |
| 03:58 | < C_tiger> | They SUCKED. |
| 03:58 | <@Doctor_Nick> | C_tiger: entire programs or code segments? |
| 03:58 | <@Vornicus> | After the first exam I walked up to him, put my hand in front of his face, and slowly closed it... making every joint in my hand pop. |
| 03:58 | <@Vornicus> | Then I said "that freaking hurt." |
| 03:58 | < C_tiger> | Simple programs, but sometimes entire programs. |
| 03:59 | <@Doctor_Nick> | Pencil and paper (for comparison) 0.0119 IPS |
| 03:59 | <@Doctor_Nick> | SONY PS3 (1PPE + 7SPEs) 230,400 MIPS (217600 MFLOPS) at 3.2 GHz |
| 03:59 | < C_tiger> | I think the worst one I wrote was 60 lines long (not counting close-braces) |
| 04:02 | < C_tiger> | I remember being pissed because of the 30 points for that question, I lost 3 for not using descriptive variable names (damned if I was going to write numberOfDiceThrownSoFar a dozen times) and another 5 for not indenting my loops at all. |
| 04:03 | <@Doctor_Nick> | yeah |
| 04:03 | <@Doctor_Nick> | introductory programming courses are like that |
| 04:03 | <@Doctor_Nick> | they suck balls |
| 04:03 | < C_tiger> | They do, which is why I never majored in CS. |
| 04:04 | <@jerith> | It's bad enough writing code like that. Have you ever tried marking it? |
| 04:06 | < C_tiger> | Their fault. My code projects were perfect. |
| 04:06 | <@jerith> | I used to tutor one of those courses. |
| 04:06 | < C_tiger> | I've had to mark 4 pages of someone trying to fudge Navier-Stokes in a circular spinning tube. It's a similar kind of pain. |
| 04:07 | <@jerith> | 300 papers, 2-4 pages pf handwritten code in each. |
| 04:07 | < C_tiger> | Ok, you win. |
| 04:07 | <@Doctor_Nick> | why do they do this |
| 04:07 | <@jerith> | Due to scheduling messups, I had a weekend to do it in. |
| 04:07 | <@Doctor_Nick> | they have programming projects to test your programmin knowledge |
| 04:08 | < C_tiger> | At least where I was, there was a TA for every 10 students in the intro CS classes. |
| 04:08 | <@jerith> | Doctor_Nick: Because they're stupid. |
| 04:08 | <@jerith> | I had another guy marking with me, so we only did about 150 each. |
| 04:09 | < C_tiger> | Because in spite of all the controls and programs used to prevent cheating, inevitably on the easy programming projects people will cheat. |
| 04:09 | | NSGuest-3333 [~sysop@67.183.91.ns-3660] has joined #code |
| 04:09 | < C_tiger> | After the intro classes, this becomes much harder as the possible solution paths diverge greatly. |
| 04:10 | < C_tiger> | So you sit the kiddies in a room give them time pressure and force them to code by hand. |
| 04:11 | < C_tiger> | Hey, question. Does anyone here use Windows XP? |
| 04:12 | < C_tiger> | Man, I feel worthless now. I'm going to go hide in a corner. |
| 04:19 | <@Doctor_Nick> | yeah |
| 04:19 | <@Doctor_Nick> | i use it on the computer i play video james on |
| 04:22 | < C_tiger> | You wouldn't happen to want to install Sage on it just to try it out would you? |
| 04:22 | < C_tiger> | Because I can't seem to get it to work and I'm really hoping it's not just me. |
| 04:22 | <@Doctor_Nick> | which sage |
| 04:23 | < C_tiger> | All the tech support is essentially for linux users. |
| 04:23 | <@Doctor_Nick> | the math program? |
| 04:23 | < C_tiger> | Yeah. |
| 04:23 | <@Doctor_Nick> | oh eez |
| 04:23 | <@Doctor_Nick> | geez |
| 04:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | -us |
| 04:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | the official windows version is just sage bundled with vmware |
| 04:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | thats fantastic |
| 04:24 | < C_tiger> | Yeah. |
| 04:24 | < C_tiger> | And it hates me. |
| 04:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | well, im not really surprised |
| 04:24 | < C_tiger> | Gee thanks. |
| 04:25 | <@Doctor_Nick> | running a huge complicated program on a virtual machine, well |
| 04:25 | | * jerith does that all the time. |
| 04:26 | < C_tiger> | It's not even that. |
| 04:26 | <@Doctor_Nick> | lemme download this |
| 04:26 | < C_tiger> | Something's wrong with the way the server thing works. |
| 04:27 | <@jerith> | My job is making VMs for people to run huge complicated things on. |
| 04:28 | <@Vornicus> | Like, for instance, operating systems. |
| 04:29 | < C_tiger> | Yeah. |
| 04:29 | < C_tiger> | It looks fine in VMWare, but when I try to open a firefox page it doesn't find it. |
| 04:30 | <@Doctor_Nick> | oh, i thought you were talking about performance issues |
| 04:34 | < C_tiger> | Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if anyone else has this problem. |
| 04:34 | <@Doctor_Nick> | well, its downloading |
| 04:34 | < C_tiger> | Thanks. |
| 04:38 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:39 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 04:49 | <@Doctor_Nick> | aaaaaaaa |
| 04:49 | < C_tiger> | ? |
| 04:49 | <@Doctor_Nick> | this is taking forever |
| 05:00 | < C_tiger> | Yeah, sorry. |
| 05:01 | <@Doctor_Nick> | stupid question, but did you restart your computer after you installed the player? |
| 05:03 | < C_tiger> | Yes. |
| 05:03 | <@Doctor_Nick> | k |
| 05:06 | < C_tiger> | If it works for you, then my guess is it has something to do with my windows firewall |
| 05:07 | < C_tiger> | But I've fiddled with it with all different configs and it hasn't helped. |
| 05:07 | <@Doctor_Nick> | its working for me |
| 05:07 | < C_tiger> | Ok. |
| 05:07 | < C_tiger> | Sigh. |
| 05:07 | < C_tiger> | Thanks. |
| 05:07 | < C_tiger> | I really appreciate you trying. |
| 05:08 | <@Doctor_Nick> | hmm |
| 05:09 | <@Doctor_Nick> | It looks like vmware sets up some virtual network adapters on the system and then runs the server off of those |
| 05:10 | <@Doctor_Nick> | have you checked those out? |
| 05:16 | < C_tiger> | How? |
| 05:16 | < C_tiger> | I'm computer illiterate. |
| 05:16 | <@Doctor_Nick> | go to the control panel and open network connections, there should be a couple of "VMware network adapters" |
| 05:18 | < C_tiger> | Yeah. |
| 05:19 | <@Doctor_Nick> | dang |
| 05:19 | < C_tiger> | They're all there and connected. |
| 05:20 | <@Doctor_Nick> | have you tried reinstalling the player? |
| 05:20 | < C_tiger> | Yes... but it just occurred to me. |
| 05:21 | < C_tiger> | localhost probably refers to my other connection. |
| 05:21 | <@Doctor_Nick> | uhm |
| 05:21 | < C_tiger> | maybe I'll enter the ip address of one of these connections. |
| 05:21 | <@Doctor_Nick> | when you start the image up, it should give you an ip to connect to |
| 05:21 | < C_tiger> | it says localhost |
| 05:21 | < C_tiger> | so I do that. |
| 05:21 | <@Doctor_Nick> | ?? |
| 05:22 | < C_tiger> | localhost:8000 |
| 05:23 | <@Doctor_Nick> | try 192.168.240.128 |
| 05:23 | < C_tiger> | Nope. |
| 05:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | when you're logging in, do you put in the "notebook" option? |
| 05:24 | < C_tiger> | time out. |
| 05:24 | <@Doctor_Nick> | ? |
| 05:24 | < C_tiger> | I used to, then I was told to do the sage option and type notebook() in that. |
| 05:25 | < C_tiger> | But it used to say direct your browser to https://localhost:8000 |
| 05:25 | <@Doctor_Nick> | hmm. |
| 05:26 | < C_tiger> | Whoa, no it does something different now. |
| 05:26 | < C_tiger> | Dang. |
| 05:26 | <@Doctor_Nick> | ? |
| 05:26 | < C_tiger> | It gave me an IP address. |
| 05:26 | <@Doctor_Nick> | wellll |
| 05:26 | < C_tiger> | Dang. |
| 05:26 | < C_tiger> | Sweet. |
| 05:26 | <@Doctor_Nick> | cool beans |
| 06:03 | < C_tiger> | Sigh, now I need linux help. I'm totally mooching off this channel today. |
| 06:06 | | Vornicus is now known as Darius |
| 06:08 | < C_tiger> | Ok, so my roommate has a new Asus EEE PC running Xandros. He connects to the wireless network fine, has an IP address but can't ping google. |
| 06:11 | < C_tiger> | But all the other (windows) computers in the apartment (There are five) connect fine. |
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| 06:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | C_tiger: 'can't ping' as in gethostbyname() fails, or as in the packets never come back? |
| 06:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | What happens if he tries pinging the gateway by IP? |
| 07:01 | < C_tiger> | The gateway pings fine. |
| 07:01 | < C_tiger> | But anything beyond doesn't. |
| 07:01 | <@Doctor_Nick> | install |
| 07:01 | < C_tiger> | the packets never come back. |
| 07:01 | <@Doctor_Nick> | whoops |
| 07:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Traceroute shows them stopping at the gateway? |
| 07:03 | < C_tiger> | Traceroute does nothing. |
| 07:03 | < C_tiger> | I think. |
| 07:03 | < C_tiger> | what do I type exactly? |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | traceroute www.google.com |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | $ traceroute www.google.com |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | traceroute to www.google.com (72.14.205.99), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | 1 linksys (192.168.1.1) 1.523 ms 1.424 ms 3.017 ms |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | 2 10.5.96.1 (10.5.96.1) 208.097 ms 208.087 ms 208.886 ms |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | 10 qb-in-f99.google.com (72.14.205.99) 256.617 ms 257.596 ms 257.561 ms |
| 07:05 | <@Darius> | That's a long-ass jump. |
| 07:05 | <@Doctor_Nick> | whoops |
| 07:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 07:05 | < C_tiger> | WTF. |
| 07:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | How do you mean, Vorn? |
| 07:06 | < C_tiger> | Ok, so now it works okily dokily as Ned Flanders would say. |
| 07:06 | < C_tiger> | Seriously, my roommate goes to bed. |
| 07:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ohh. |
| 07:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Odd, rather. |
| 07:08 | | * ToxicFrog slwwp |
| 07:08 | < C_tiger> | Or not, he gets up, it dies. |
| 07:09 | < C_tiger> | This is um... NUTS! |
| 07:10 | <@Darius> | It's taking a very long time to go from 1 to 2 there. |
| 07:11 | < C_tiger> | My roommate is cursed. |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | 1 is my local gateway, seperated from me by about two meters of cat5. If that. |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | 2 is my ISP gateway, seperated from me by several kilometers of cable and various pieces of software and shared between six machines. |
| 07:12 | < C_tiger> | Ok, traceroute connects to google fine (after my roommate goes back to bed) but firefox won't connect to google. |
| 07:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, traceroute seems to inflate ping times by a significant factor. |
| 07:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | traceroute google.ca is ~280ms, ping google.ca is ~28ms. |
| 07:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | C_tiger: all I can think is that ICMP is ok but TCP isn't working right - check firewall and connection filtering settings down the chain, try telnetting it on port 80 to see if it's just FF that's broken, etc |
| 07:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I really can't help much at the moment, I've been up for 18 hours on 4 hours of sleep and my state vector is terribly fuzzy. |
| 07:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I'm going to bed now. |
| 07:14 | < C_tiger> | Ok, thanks for your help. |
| 07:16 | < C_tiger> | bash: telnet: command not found |
| 07:16 | < C_tiger> | ?? |
| 07:23 | <@Darius> | that's not an auspicious beginning. |
| 07:23 | < C_tiger> | No, I would say it isn't. |
| 07:23 | < C_tiger> | This PC was supposed to be idiot proof. |
| 07:24 | <@Darius> | Idiots shouldn't be using telnet. |
| 07:25 | < C_tiger> | It has no hard drive, only 2 GB of flash memory, and only four icons: Openoffice, firefox, messaging (pidgin) and skype. |
| 07:27 | <@Darius> | ls /usr/bin |
| 07:27 | < C_tiger> | a whole lot of stuff. |
| 07:27 | < C_tiger> | am I looking for something in particular? |
| 07:37 | <@Darius> | Uh... not sure, really. |
| 07:37 | <@Darius> | apt, yum, up2date... |
| 07:38 | <@Darius> | Though now that I think about it that doesn't work if you can't reach the internet those won't help. |
| 07:38 | <@Darius> | Uh... |
| 07:39 | <@Darius> | I think you might be able to convince ssh to act like telnet, but I dnon't know how. |
| 07:46 | < C_tiger> | Ugh. |
| 07:54 | < C_tiger> | Ok, more interesting observations. |
| 07:55 | < C_tiger> | sudo apt-get update works |
| 07:55 | < C_tiger> | connects and gets updates or something. |
| 07:57 | <@Darius> | wacky. |
| 07:57 | < C_tiger> | firefox still doesn't work and I don't have telnet. |
| 07:57 | | Darius is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 07:58 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | apt-get install telnet ? |
| 07:58 | < C_tiger> | couldn't find package telnet |
| 07:58 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | :/ |
| 07:58 | < C_tiger> | I'm cowering in a corner. |
| 07:58 | <@Reiver> | ...what else would you call it? |
| 07:59 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | dunno. |
| 08:00 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | But it might be in a larger package. |
| 08:02 | < C_tiger> | Although I kinda feel bad installing a whole bunch of stuff on this computer. |
| 08:07 | < C_tiger> | Ok, I give up. |
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| 23:13 | | * ilovefire has a question! I keep getting 'TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'int' and 'xrange''. What does this mean? |
| 23:13 | <@Reiver> | Which language? |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Python. |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Show us the code. |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | I suspect this means you're trying to do something like: 2 / xrange(2,4) |
| 23:17 | < ilovefire> | voice please? |
| 23:17 | | mode/#code [+o ilovefire] by AnnoDomini |
| 23:17 | <@ilovefire> | http://rafb.net/p/oWdPdO98.html |
| 23:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Where's n defined? |
| 23:20 | <@ilovefire> | Well, umm, I thought with the current set of thigns for n, umm. |
| 23:20 | | * ilovefire head scratches. Is probalby going at this in entirely the wrong way. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, consider. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | First of all, primes(a) is meant to list all the primes between 2 and a inclusive, yes? |
| 23:22 | | * ToxicFrog checks the backscroll. Yes, it is. |
| 23:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, what does that suggest to you as a starting range? |
| 23:24 | <@ilovefire> | well, specificaly between 2 and 1000, but if it were a... Hmm, could have mor eutility, I supopse, but... |
| 23:24 | <@ilovefire> | Umm. |
| 23:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, in that case I have a different question: if it's hard-coded to between 2 and 1000, why is it primes(a) when a will never get used? |
| 23:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | (sidenote: C_tiger: if apt-get update works, the problem is not with your network connection, it's with firefox) |
| 23:26 | <@ilovefire> | TF: Because whenever I tried just def primes:, it kept giving me an error. |
| 23:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | Why not 'primes()'? |
| 23:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | def primes(): |
| 23:27 | <@ilovefire> | also gave an error. Said it wasnt' defined. |
| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | ilovefire: def primes(): |
| 23:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | When AD said "primes()", he meant "use that as the name that goes after the def and before the :", not "type that in verbatim" |
| 23:28 | <@ilovefire> | okay, that works. |
| 23:28 | <@ilovefire> | It didn't before, strangely enough. |
| 23:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Specifically, a function declaration starts with: def name(arguments): |
| 23:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | If the function takes no arguments (aka parameters), there's nothing between the (). |
| 23:29 | | * ilovefire nods. |
| 23:29 | <@ilovefire> | that fixes problem one, I suppose. |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | So now, conceptually, you have something like: for k in 2 to 1000: if k is prime, print k |
| 23:29 | <@ilovefire> | http://rafb.net/p/FUeujO16.html this is the full text of the error message I'm getting. |
| 23:29 | <@ilovefire> | TF: conceptually, yes. |
| 23:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | So. Start of by writing that in python. Don't try to fill in "if k is prime" - just put a placeholder like, say, is_prime(k) in. |
| 23:31 | | * AnnoDomini scratches head. Looks like some sort of type incompatibility. Little knowledge of Python, though. |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I imagine it's related to the attempt to declare n by writing "n < 1000; n > 1" |
| 23:33 | <@ilovefire> | okay. |
| 23:36 | <@ilovefire> | Done, now what should I do? Figure out code that'll check if k is prime? |
| 23:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, first paste it so we can take a look :) |
| 23:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yes. |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as the actual programming goes, the next step is to devise code that actually determines whether k is or is not. |
| 23:37 | <@ilovefire> | http://rafb.net/p/Wvvvi829.html |
| 23:37 | | * ilovefire nods |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | this was discussed last night, for test division - "go down the list of numbers between this number and 1, and see if it's divisible by any of them" |
| 23:39 | | * ilovefire nods, was attempting to figure out how to do this with what he knew about code. |
| 23:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I note that my suggestion of is_prime(k) wasn't just to make it look more like actual code. |
| 23:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can create multiple functions in one file. |
| 23:39 | | * ilovefire nods... |
| 23:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://rafb.net/p/kjDV1Z75.html |
| 23:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | An example. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is, in general, good practice - make your program out of smaller, modular pieces rather than one function that does everything. |
| 23:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also helps think about what you're doing - you don't get, for example, the "is k prime" code mixed up with the "k in 2 to 1000" code, either in your head or in the file. |
| 23:43 | | * ilovefire nods |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 12 00:00:36 2007 |