| --- Log opened Thu Oct 25 00:00:59 2007 |
| 01:23 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | Mmmm. |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | TF, is your IPD based on winning or just accumulating the best score? |
| 03:06 | <@McMartin> | Because TFT tends to do better when there are lots of "nice" strategies around, because they'll get the Cooperation Bonus. |
| 03:11 | | Mischief [~Genesis@Nightstar-7565.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 03:13 | < Mischief> | Question! What would happen if you hooked a Cat5e Crossover cable to several amplifier circuits (One for each wire) |
| 03:13 | <@McMartin> | The "code" here isn't the Electrical Code. |
| 03:13 | < Mischief> | I know. |
| 03:13 | < Mischief> | But I don't know basic circuiting! |
| 03:14 | <@Vornicus> | The problem is noise, more than attenuation |
| 03:14 | < Mischief> | And people have corrected me here before. So I was curious if anyone knew. |
| 03:14 | <@Vornicus> | An amplifier makes everything louder, including the noise. |
| 03:14 | < Mischief> | Right..So the cables would need to be shielded as well? |
| 03:15 | <@Reiver> | Uh. |
| 03:16 | <@Reiver> | You just missed the point entirely. |
| 03:16 | < Mischief> | ..In addition to the fact that it wouldn't work, because the decreased quality of data. |
| 03:16 | <@Reiver> | At which point you may as well not bother at all, yes. |
| 03:16 | <@Reiver> | At which point... you are bothering to even ask the question why? |
| 03:17 | < Mischief> | Right. Sorry, my brain skips a beat occasionally. I noticed it, but it immediately switched to another thought |
| 03:17 | < Mischief> | It's part of ADHD. >_>; |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: what's the difference? |
| 03:44 | <@McMartin> | TF: One exploiter vs. one TFT does better in a universal round-robin than one exploiter vs. five TFT. |
| 03:45 | <@McMartin> | Because the TFT guys have one in which there's one exploited and 99 reciprocal betrayal, and then four that are Cooperate All The Way. |
| 03:45 | <@McMartin> | Meanwhile, exploiter just gets one hax and 99 mutual betryal each time. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Right, but what I mean is, how do you distinguish between "winning" and "getting the most points"? |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you aren't using the score as the measure of win, what are you using? |
| 03:51 | <@McMartin> | Exploiter wins every individual duel by having more points than his opponent. |
| 03:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, |
| 03:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | So the question is whether you're using overall score, or number of one-on-one wins. |
| 03:54 | <@McMartin> | right |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Overall score at the moment. Wouldn't be hard to change the fitness function to use win count, though. |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Either way, testing the population against itself runs into the same problems: it's hard to distinguish between everyone getting worse, and everyone getting better. |
| 03:57 | <@McMartin> | Oh, for relative difference, yeah. |
| 03:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | At the moment I've been generating a random testing population at the start, and teating against that as well. |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | There we go. |
| 04:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | (new rule: fitness evaluators that return negative values are an error) |
| 04:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...man. |
| 04:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Either my implementation is broken, or fps sucks the big one for these problems. |
| 04:10 | <@McMartin> | FPS? |
| 04:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fitness Proportional Selection. |
| 04:11 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 04:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Random selection, but weighted according to fitness. |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've been using tournament selection, and only just now got around to implementing fps, as we have to do a compare-and-contrast. |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | And man, FPS is having a lot of trouble solving a 50-bit all-1s problem. |
| 04:12 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's also ass-slow per generation, but that may have something to do with my O(n^2) implementation of it~ |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or, rather, it's O(n) and gets called n times per generation) |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, so, t-select typically solves this in 16-20 generations; fps runs for 80 generations and then hits the age limit without getting the answer. |
| 04:24 | <@McMartin> | That's kind of sad. |
| 04:25 | <@McMartin> | Is the fact that there is Only One Right Answer part of fps? |
| 04:25 | <@McMartin> | Er, part of FPS's problem |
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| 08:52 | | * McMartin implements > CHEW CABLES in WSIF. |
| 08:58 | <@Vornicus> | *snrk* |
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| 10:08 | <@Vornicus> | "What I mean is that if you really want to understand something, the best way is to try and explain it to someone else. That forces you to sort it out in your mind. And the more slow and dim-witted your pupil, the more you have to break things down into more and more simple ideas. And that's really the essence of programming. By the time you've sorted out a complicated idea into little steps that even a stupid machine can deal with, you've learned somethi |
| 10:08 | <@Vornicus> | t it yourself." |
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| 15:30 | <@EvilDarkLord> | Hmm. Others here familiar with projecteuler.net? |
| 15:31 | <@gnolam> | Nyet. |
| 15:33 | | * gnolam checks the page. |
| 15:34 | <@gnolam> | ... it refers to "beautiful mathematics". I make it a point to stay well clear of madmen like that. |
| 15:55 | < GeekSoldier|work> | yes! |
| 15:55 | | GeekSoldier|work is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 15:55 | < GeekSoldier> | I'm working on 164 right now. |
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| 16:07 | <@EvilDarkLord> | GeekSoldier: Cool. Solved all the others? |
| 16:07 | < GeekSoldier> | not by a long shot. |
| 16:07 | | * EvilDarkLord is only up to ~45 or so so far. |
| 16:07 | < GeekSoldier> | I'm at 17% |
| 16:09 | <@EvilDarkLord> | (Though mine have been fairly easy ones so far) |
| 16:13 | < GeekSoldier> | mine have been too. |
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| 21:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyon here conversant with Ant Colony Optimization? |
| 21:03 | <@AnnoDomini> | Unfortunately no. I think we'll have a lecture on that next week, though. |
| 21:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha! |
| 21:10 | | * ToxicFrog finds a paper by Dorigo, Birattari, and Stutzle which explains everything he needs to know |
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| 21:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Alright, Leela, time to upload your brain to Orias for safekeeping... |
| 21:20 | <@AnnoDomini> | Leela and Orias being the names of your boxen? :p |
| 21:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep. Leela's the laptop, Orias is the server. |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Leela is also very ill - its video memory is deteriorating rapidly. |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's replacement hardware will arrive later today, so I want it ready to move in. |
| 21:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm, only three million files? Smaller than I expected. |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or is that 300,000? |
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| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hard to tell with how messed up the screen is. |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Must be the latter, Orias has a bit under 600,000. |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Graph: list of nodes |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Node: table of node=>(weight, pheromone) pairs |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ant: ordered list of nodes + age counter |
| 21:40 | < GeekSoldier> | wow... |
| 21:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 22:01 | < GeekSoldier> | wrong channel... the kin of enlightenment that I have achieved this evening is appropriate only for tsc... |
| 22:01 | < GeekSoldier> | laters! |
| 22:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm. |
| 22:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I guess I need to defer per-ant pheromone updates. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 26 00:00:06 2007 |