| --- Log opened Mon Aug 20 00:00:58 2007 |
| 00:07 | | Reiver is now known as ReivOut |
| 00:35 | | * Derakon eyes his code, which is managing to get all the way up to global ID# 283300 before finishing initializing this stub. "Right, that number's garbage." |
| 00:37 | <@Derakon> | Okay, in gdb, how do I tell it to break on a given line in a given file? |
| 00:37 | <@Derakon> | Once I've broken in that file already, I can just say "break 343", for example, but I can't figure out how to do it without the context already there. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | break filename:123 |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | Danke. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Same format gcc uses for error messages. |
| 00:44 | | * Derakon finds...not a bug, but a failure to check an assumption which results in confusing behaviour when the user (i.e. himself) is stupid. |
| 00:44 | <@Derakon> | Namely: you have to provide images for the game objects, stupid! |
| 00:49 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 00:50 | <@Derakon> | Man, my code is just brittle all over the place. |
| 00:50 | <@Derakon> | I wish I'd written this after I'd learned not to make dumbassed assumptions all the time. ¬.¬ |
| 01:39 | | ReivOut is now known as Reiver |
| 01:54 | <@Reiver> | Okay, so |
| 01:54 | <@Reiver> | Python. |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon> | Snakes on a Text File. |
| 01:54 | | * Reiver has 2.5 installed, with IDE up. |
| 01:55 | | * Reiver attempts to work out how one gets to the coding-bit. |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon> | It really depends on your IDE. Since I do my coding in a text file, I wouldn't know how to help you. |
| 01:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't use Python, but if it's like most IDEs, you just write your program as though in a text editor, and there'll be quick-run, debugging features, etc once it's ready to actually go. |
| 01:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or did you mean the programming bit itself? Generally (at least when making programs, not libraries) I start with the entry point and branch outwards from there. |
| 01:59 | < Vornicus> | Reiver: the "new window" thing gives you an editor window, in IDLE. |
| 02:00 | <@Derakon> | Try typing "print "Hello, world!"" (without the outer quotation marks) and then looking for a "Run" button. |
| 02:00 | <@Derakon> | Assuming you have a code window open, anyway. |
| 02:00 | < Vornicus> | IDLE starts you with an interactive interpreter though |
| 02:00 | <@Reiver> | OK, so |
| 02:00 | <@Reiver> | Now I just need to work out how to code Python. |
| 02:00 | <@Derakon> | ...I've never gotten much mileage out of interactive interpreters. |
| 02:00 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 02:01 | | * Reiver ponders. |
| 02:01 | < Vornicus> | Der: I use them a lot for small things and calculators and trying stuff. |
| 02:01 | <@Reiver> | Step one: "Hello world" sounds good~ |
| 02:02 | <@Reiver> | ... print "Hello world" |
| 02:03 | <@Reiver> | O-kay then. |
| 02:03 | | * Derakon snerks. |
| 02:03 | | * Reiver is torn between "Sweet" and "But but but where's the boilerplate? ;_;" |
| 02:03 | < Vornicus> | Doesn't Python rock? |
| 02:03 | | * Reiver comes to the conclusion he's been using too much java as of late~ |
| 02:03 | < Vornicus> | Boilerplate is for sissies. |
| 02:03 | <@Derakon> | I should really learn Python sometime~ |
| 02:03 | <@Reiver> | Vorn: Right up until you have to deal with refactoring and their thrice-bedamned tab/space conventions. |
| 02:04 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 02:04 | <@Reiver> | Which is the main reason I've not risked typing major projects in it. |
| 02:04 | <@Reiver> | Braces may be boilerplate, but at least they let you refactor things /then/ worry about prettyness~ |
| 02:05 | <@Reiver> | (Without going 'shit how many tabs in does this need to be in this section?') |
| 02:05 | < Vornicus> | Python you use your editor's "indent" and "unindent" functions. |
| 02:05 | <@Derakon> | Also, uh, if you're worrying about how many levels your code is indented, then it's indented too far. |
| 02:05 | < Vornicus> | indeed. |
| 02:06 | | * Derakon remembers some code an intern wrote...it was indented to 13 levels! ;.; |
| 02:06 | <@Reiver> | Mostly cascading if statements that do it, Der |
| 02:06 | <@Reiver> | (This was in java where I couldn't specify the rules required in other formats, alas) |
| 02:07 | <@Derakon> | Java supports the "continue" keyword, which allows you to dodge most cascading if statements. |
| 02:07 | <@Derakon> | "if (something that means I don't care about the rest) {continue;}" |
| 02:07 | < Vornicus> | Cascading ifs are smelly though |
| 02:07 | <@Derakon> | Lets you avoid having an else block at all. |
| 02:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | "continue" is just another word for "I should have written this using lambdas"~ |
| 02:09 | | * Reiver pauses. |
| 02:09 | <@Reiver> | Not if, my bad |
| 02:09 | <@Reiver> | They were nested while loops. |
| 02:10 | < Vornicus> | Even worse. |
| 02:10 | <@Reiver> | Searching through every square on a chessboard, then comparing said square to every other square on said board to check for a valid move if the square had the appropriate peice on it~ |
| 02:10 | < Vornicus> | I don't think I've /ever/ written code that legitimately needed more than three nested loops. |
| 02:11 | <@Reiver> | (Yeah, yeah, brute forcing was clumsy, but saved having to re-write my legal-move rules.) |
| 02:11 | <@Reiver> | This was ... four nested loops (StartY, StartX, DestinationY, DestinationX) and two if statements, IIRC. |
| 02:12 | < Vornicus> | Looks like you needed an iterator on your board. But. |
| 02:12 | <@Reiver> | I did need an iterator. |
| 02:13 | <@Reiver> | However I had more clock cycles and wpm than I did brainpower or time to look things up. ¬¬ |
| 02:13 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 02:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...now I have the urge to code upon me, but no idea what to code |
| 02:13 | <@Reiver> | TF: Help me code my project thingy~ |
| 02:14 | | * Reiver is trying to reformat text. |
| 02:14 | | * Reiver is mostly poking around trying to find file-loading and string parsing/maniulation functions. >.> |
| 02:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't do python, remember? |
| 02:15 | < Vornicus> | TF: put together an SDL/OpenGL environment for Lua, check it in~ |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Heh. OpenGL gives me the jibblies. |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Work on struct some more, maybe. |
| 02:15 | <@Derakon> | I could toss you Niobium, but its Lua side is in a bit of flux right now. |
| 02:16 | <@Reiver> | ...That would actually be a very powerful tool for lua to have, actually... |
| 02:16 | <@Derakon> | What, OpenGL? |
| 02:16 | <@Derakon> | Or structs? |
| 02:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or SDL? |
| 02:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Maybe I should work on luaSDL some more. |
| 02:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | That event code is looking mighty nonexistent. |
| 02:18 | <@Reiver> | The OpenGL thing. |
| 02:18 | <@Reiver> | There are not very many implementations that provide a sane frontend. |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | I believe Python can hook into OpenGL. |
| 02:18 | < Vornicus> | OpenGL is /fucking scary/ |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | The problem really is that OpenGL is...yeah. |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | OpenGL is goddamn scary. |
| 02:19 | < Vornicus> | There /is/ no sane frontend, because the backend was /born of Nyarlathotep/ |
| 02:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is why I'm just binding the non-openGL parts of SDL. |
| 02:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reasons Why Linux Is Awesome, #n: # yum install tolua++ tolua++-devel |
| 02:22 | <@Derakon> | I remember mucking about with tolua and not getting very far... |
| 02:22 | <@Derakon> | Then again, that was three years ago. |
| 02:23 | | Vornicus [~vorn@64.252.104.ns-20550] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 02:25 | | NSGuest-130 [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 02:26 | | NSGuest-130 is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, as it is now: SDL.WM_* for window manager functions. |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | And so forth for other subsystems like CD. |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have this urge to put them into subtables; so that SDL.WM_GetInfo() would become SDL.WM.GetInfo() |
| 02:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Is this sane? |
| 02:31 | <@Derakon> | Is there any particular value to doing so short of being able to say "I want to see the window manager functions"? |
| 02:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, not really. |
| 02:32 | <@Derakon> | Then I wouldn't bother. |
| 02:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mostly it's just that using underscores to implement namespaces gives me the jibblies these days. |
| 02:34 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 02:34 | <@Derakon> | You have to contrast that with breaking the naming convention. *shrug* |
| 02:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | True, although I've already broken the naming convention by putting stuff in an SDL table rather than barfing all over _G |
| 02:36 | <@Derakon> | I still think you should try to avoid changing things as much as possible. There's no point in making people re-learn SDL just because it's in a new language. |
| 02:36 | <@Derakon> | It's not like it's egregiously broken as it is. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | True. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although no re-learning would be necessary. |
| 02:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | But you're right, I'll keep it in a single table. |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, stocktaking complete. |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Stuff that still needs to be done: |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - all YUV overlay stuff |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - all audio stuff |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - all event queue stuff |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - keymap |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - getmodstate & setmodstate need table interface rather than bitmask |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - getmousestate needs table interface rather than bitmask |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - timer functions, and timer ctor function |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - lots of typedefs (4 video, 1 overlay, 2 audio, 9274 events) |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - ListModes |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - color/gamma |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - GetClipRect |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | - all eighteen billion ImageFilter functions in SDL_gfx |
| 03:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Some of those will need custom glue, some of them are just tedious. |
| 03:28 | <@Derakon> | You'll pardon me for saying so, I hope, but that sounds tremendously dull. |
| 03:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is. |
| 03:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not as dull as it might seem at first glance, since I'm using tolua++; a lot of this stuff is just a matter of writing the function signatures and letting it generate the code. |
| 03:31 | <@Derakon> | Fair enough. |
| 03:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Some of it, however, isn't. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | For example, tolua++ can't automatically map between bitmasks and tables. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it has trouble with functions that take pointers and fill them in. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or that return complicated arrays of structs or the like. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | So for some things I need to write custom glue code. |
| 04:06 | | * Reiver pokes at Python curiously. |
| 04:06 | <@Reiver> | How do I define variables? |
| 04:07 | <@Derakon> | foo = value, according to http://www.developer.com/lang/other/article.php/626321 |
| 04:08 | <@Reiver> | hrm |
| 04:08 | | * Reiver attempts to work out how one makes a file reader then. |
| 04:09 | <@Derakon> | Presumably, you open a file handle, iteratively call its get-next-line function (whatever it's called), and when you're done, close the handle. |
| 04:09 | < Vornicus> | f = file(filename, flags) |
| 04:09 | <@Reiver> | Ah! |
| 04:09 | | * Reiver had screwed that bit up, thankses the Vorn. |
| 04:09 | < Vornicus> | for line in <file-like object>: iterate over lines in the file. |
| 04:10 | <@Reiver> | Man. |
| 04:10 | | * Reiver scratches his head |
| 04:12 | | * Reiver starts jotting psuedocode to help him have a clue what is meant to be going on here. |
| 04:22 | <@Reiver> | okay then. |
| 04:22 | | * Reiver swears he'll figure out how to load a file then output its contents, honest! |
| 04:23 | < Vornicus> | print file(filename,'r').read() |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | f = open('G:\Code\Python\SpellListConverter\Orig.txt','r') |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | print f.read() |
| 04:39 | <@Reiver> | ^ I've done a stupid somewhere. |
| 04:39 | | * Reiver scratches his head. |
| 04:39 | < Vornicus> | yes. |
| 04:39 | < Vornicus> | escape backslashes, because they're the escape character. |
| 04:39 | < Vornicus> | G:\\... |
| 04:40 | <@Reiver> | ...oh, whoops~ |
| 04:40 | <@Derakon> | I wish Microsoft didn't use a nonstandard delimeter. ¬.¬ |
| 04:40 | < Vornicus> | (same in... nearly all languages I can think of.) |
| 04:41 | | * Reiver was just being Stupid, don't mind him. |
| 04:55 | <@Derakon> | 12 - StrongBad's ideal universe song. |
| 04:55 | <@Derakon> | Er, wrong channel. ¬.¬ |
| 04:57 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: Vornicus, +DiceBot, @EvilDarkLord, @AnnoDomini, @Reiver |
| 04:58 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-12550.sea2.cablespeed.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 06:12 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 06:13 | | mode/#code [+o Forj] by ChanServ |
| 06:35 | | EvilDarkLord [~jjlehto3@Nightstar-2194.vipunen.hut.fi] has joined #Code |
| 06:35 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 06:35 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-12550.sea2.cablespeed.com] has joined #Code |
| 06:35 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26823.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 06:35 | | DiceBot [~Reiver@Nightstar-4846.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 06:35 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 06:36 | | Reiver [~reaverta@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #Code |
| 06:36 | | mode/#code [+o Reiver] by ChanServ |
| 06:36 | | Thaqui is now known as NSGuest-139 |
| 06:45 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: NSGuest-139, DiceBot, Derakon, EvilDarkLord, @AnnoDomini, @Reiver |
| 06:46 | | Netsplit over, joins: EvilDarkLord |
| 06:46 | | Netsplit over, joins: AnnoDomini |
| 06:46 | | Netsplit over, joins: Derakon, NSGuest-139 |
| 06:46 | | Netsplit over, joins: DiceBot |
| 06:46 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 06:46 | | Netsplit over, joins: Reiver |
| 06:46 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 06:46 | | mode/#code [+o Reiver] by ChanServ |
| 06:48 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:48 | | NSGuest-139 is now known as Thaqui |
| 07:09 | | ErikMesoy [~ejm@Nightstar-2585.bb.online.no] has joined #code |
| 07:20 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 07:33 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29744.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 07:33 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 07:54 | | ErikMesoy [~ejm@Nightstar-2585.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: OMBG First day of university education! Whee!] |
| 08:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:14 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 11:14 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 11:16 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-23944.cs.bris.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 11:35 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 12:30 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 12:30 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 13:19 | | * ToxicFrog upreads |
| 13:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | ReivZzz: another solution there is to use /, which winNT will accept |
| 13:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | win32 will not, but it can die in a fire |
| 14:52 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-23944.cs.bris.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Swim, swim, hungry!] |
| 15:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...I am fairly certain that gcc should not be using 2GB of memory |
| 15:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | In Sovien Russia, wandering monsters encounter YOU. |
| 15:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | *Soviet |
| 15:39 | | * AnnoDomini imagines a jRPG with the party travelling through Soviet Russia at some point, and encountering random monsters only if they stand still for a while. |
| 15:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | cc1plus is up to 2083MB allocated, 1.8G in physical memory, and 27 minutes of CPU time. |
| 15:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ;.; |
| 17:02 | <@gnolam> | I think you passed -bogdownsystem when you initiated the compile. |
| 17:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:52 | | gnolam is now known as gnolam|Gig |
| 18:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:34 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 18:45 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: DiceBot, EvilDarkLord, @ReivZzz, Thaqui, @Derakon[AFK], @gnolam|Gig |
| 18:45 | | Netsplit over, joins: EvilDarkLord |
| 18:45 | | Netsplit over, joins: Derakon[AFK], Thaqui, DiceBot |
| 18:45 | | Netsplit over, joins: ReivZzz, gnolam|Gig |
| 18:45 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 18:54 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 18:54 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 19:26 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:26 | | mode/#code [+o Forj] by ChanServ |
| 19:48 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 19:52 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: DiceBot, @Vornicus, EvilDarkLord, ReivZzz, @Thaqui, Derakon[AFK], gnolam|Gig |
| 19:52 | | Netsplit over, joins: EvilDarkLord |
| 19:52 | | Netsplit over, joins: Vornicus, Derakon[AFK], Thaqui, DiceBot |
| 19:52 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 19:52 | | Netsplit over, joins: ReivZzz, gnolam|Gig |
| 19:52 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 20:01 | | gnolam|Gig is now known as gnolam |
| 20:48 | | * ToxicFrog fiddles with a generic I7 Makefile |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | $(OUT): Source/story.ni |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | i7 -szcode=$(ZCODE) -c . >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Source/story.ni: $(SRCS) |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | cd Source && awk '/^!include/ { $$1=""; system("cat " $$0); next; } { print $$0; }' < story.i7 > story.ni |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hah! |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can now make a new I7 project with ( mkdir $1 && cd $1 && ln ~/src/Makefile.i7 ./Makefile && make setup ) |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | And "make (settings|z5|z6|z8|glulx|clean|run)" all work as expected. |
| 21:06 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 21:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Make gurus! |
| 21:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is the variable that expands to the containing makefile? |
| 21:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 22:04 | | * ToxicFrog upgrades the preprocessor to insert comments detailing what, exactly, it's including |
| 23:23 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:23 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Tue Aug 21 00:00:04 2007 |