| --- Log opened Wed Aug 15 00:00:25 2007 |
| 00:19 | | NSGuest-1 is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 00:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:24 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-6772.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: brb] |
| 00:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:32 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyAFK |
| 00:49 | | ReivZzz is now known as ReivClass |
| 00:55 | | Vornicus is now known as Morton |
| 00:56 | | ChalcyAFK is now known as Chalcedon |
| 01:01 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:20 | | NSGuest-43 is now known as Thaqui |
| 01:33 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-6772.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 01:33 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by ChanServ |
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| 02:17 | | Morton is now known as Vornicus |
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| 02:44 | | ReivClass is now known as Reiver |
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| 07:29 | | Reiver is now known as ReivOut |
| 08:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:02 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18280.cs.bris.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 10:07 | < Chalcedon> | hi mco |
| 10:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | 'lo Chalcy. How've you doing? |
| 10:14 | < Chalcedon> | good thank you :) |
| 10:14 | < Chalcedon> | I got good marks for my thesis :) |
| 10:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | Sweet. ^^ |
| 10:15 | < NSGuest-25> | So, I have a script that looks up a "user@machine" pair given an alias. This is trivially usable if I want to ssh, but less so if I want to scp. Which brings me to today's "how to abuse bash": |
| 10:16 | < NSGuest-25> | #!/bin/bash |
| 10:16 | < NSGuest-25> | scp $paramsArgh! |
| 10:16 | < NSGuest-25> | hostname=`echo ${!#} | sed "s/:.*//"` |
| 10:16 | < NSGuest-25> | replacement=`echo ${!#} | sed "s/$hostname/$(lookup_machine.sh $hostname)/"` |
| 10:16 | | NSGuest-25 is now known as jerith |
| 10:16 | < jerith> | params=`echo "$@" | sed "s+${!#}+$replacement+"` |
| 10:16 | | * Chalcedon hugs jerith |
| 10:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | Where $paramsArgh! is defined as...? |
| 10:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh and good idea |
| 10:17 | | * MyCatVerbs hugs jerith, too. ^^ |
| 10:17 | < jerith> | Anyways, the "how to abuse bash" still stands, minus the "Argh!" |
| 10:18 | | * Chalcedon hugs mco |
| 10:21 | < jerith> | So, can anyone think of a better idea? |
| 10:23 | <@AnnoDomini> | Have you got a goat, a dark altar, and a fancy sacrificial knife? |
| 10:23 | <@AnnoDomini> | :P |
| 10:24 | < jerith> | Quite coincidentally, I do. |
| 10:24 | < jerith> | However, I don't want to have to make a sacrifice to the Dark Lord every time I want to scp a file. |
| 10:46 | | * MyCatVerbs hugs Chalcedon. "Wheee, hugs!" |
| 10:46 | | * Chalcedon hugs and cookies MCO |
| 10:47 | < Chalcedon> | no wait, I already did that |
| 10:47 | < Chalcedon> | I'm getting tired |
| 10:47 | | * MyCatVerbs eet cookie, danke! |
| 10:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | jerith: sftp? |
| 10:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | jerith: since you already have ssh access anyway, sftp might require less pain and torment to drive. |
| 10:49 | < Chalcedon> | nini all |
| 10:52 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: bed] |
| 10:53 | <@McMartin> | Hey, MCV, long time no see |
| 10:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | 'lo McMartin. How've you been? |
| 10:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | I've been semi-darkstar'd for a while now, including currently. But no biggie. |
| 11:01 | <@McMartin> | Just finished a major project |
| 11:03 | <@McMartin> | Still in not-quite-officially-public mode, but: http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/if/WS/ |
| 11:04 | | * Reiver is in the habit of calling the post-beta-but-not-quite-finished status 'gamma' software. Is this a terrible mistake, out of interest? |
| 11:06 | < MyCatVerbs> | Weishaupt? Illuminati? |
| 11:06 | < Reiver> | Yep. :) |
| 11:06 | < MyCatVerbs> | Reiver: yes. But not for the reason you think. |
| 11:06 | < Reiver> | MCV: Do tell? |
| 11:07 | < MyCatVerbs> | The whole concept of alpha and beta versions is completely FUBAR, literally. Companies screwing up have totally destroyed the meanings of the terms 'alpha version' and 'beta version'. |
| 11:07 | < Reiver> | Well, yes. |
| 11:08 | < Reiver> | But that's companies for you. |
| 11:09 | | Raif [~corvusign@Nightstar-5406.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A trebuchet is not a marital aid. Many bothans died to bring us this information.] |
| 11:09 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hence you're actually much better off starting from the *other* end of the Greek alphabet. Omega version as a concept test, followed by the Psi version to pin down implementation details, Chi version to make the design stable, Phi version in which you iron most of the bugs out and make it perform slightly better than boiled ass, then finally an Upsilon version where you try to get *all* the bugs and fine tune it to run like greased lightni |
| 11:09 | < MyCatVerbs> | ng. |
| 11:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | Plus you can go Tau, Sigma, Rho, Pi, Omicron... and so on and so forth if you keep messing it up. :) |
| 11:10 | | * Reiver was happy with alpha/beta/gamma, himself~ |
| 11:14 | <@McMartin> | I consider "alpha" to be "in-house testing during development", "beta" to be "external testing once development is basically finished" |
| 11:14 | <@McMartin> | "open beta" means "external testing by people unassociated with the dev team" and is meaningless outside of a corporate context |
| 11:15 | <@McMartin> | In this case, the version in question is, quite literally, a "release candidate" |
| 11:15 | <@McMartin> | By which I mean, if nobody I tell it about finds a massive showstopper in the next week, that is the precise binary that shall be released. |
| 11:17 | < MyCatVerbs> | Jah, those're the real meanings of the terms, but "release candidate" is still the only one which hasn't yet been torn to shreds by clueless marketroids. :/ |
| 11:19 | < Reiver> | MCV, you somehow seem to assume we give a flying crap about marketroids. |
| 11:19 | < Reiver> | McM lives in the ivory towers of academia, afterall~ |
| 11:23 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 11:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | This is true. |
| 11:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | But sometimes you want to, ah, connect with the greater unwashed masses. Perhaps to entice more of them to join the ivory towers and help make them larger and more imposing. |
| 11:32 | < Reiver> | Eh? |
| 11:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | The unwashed masses *do* get brainwashed by the marketroids. |
| 11:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | And yet the unwashed masses happen to be our only recruiting pool. |
| 11:43 | < Reiver> | Either way, they're going to need to learn a new set of jargon - either retrain what they've learned, or learn a whole new set. |
| 11:43 | < Reiver> | At which point we may as well teach them the /proper/ stuff to start with. |
| 11:43 | < Reiver> | Afterall, if we change the names, the marketoids will just steal the new stuff anyway. |
| 11:50 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hard problem. |
| 12:13 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 12:24 | < MyCatVerbs> | Sleep well. |
| 13:03 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26823.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #code [Leaving] |
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| 14:49 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 15:10 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 15:51 | | NSGuest-36 is now known as EvilDarkLord |
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| 16:36 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18280.cs.bris.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Swim, swim, hungry!] |
| 16:58 | | ReivZzz is now known as ReivSLEP |
| 17:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:18 | | Raif [~corvusign@Nightstar-5406.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #Code |
| 18:18 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:37 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 18:37 | | Syloqs-AFH is now known as Syloq |
| 19:24 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:24 | | mode/#code [+o Forj] by ChanServ |
| 19:26 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 19:48 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 20:50 | | * AnnoDomini grahs. Why, why, WHY couldn't whoever created the $mid() function for mIRC have made it return an empty string when ASKED for a 0-length string?! No, it HAS to return the number of characters to the end of the input string. |
| 20:51 | <@gnolam> | The bigger question is "why why why aren't there any decent alternatives under Windows"? |
| 20:52 | | * AnnoDomini grumbles and makes an alias that uses $mid, but acts sanely when confronted with 0 for N. |
| 20:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | Ahhh. Much better. |
| 20:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | gnolam: ahem xchat |
| 20:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | Isn't that the client which reconnects automatically after a /kill? |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Only if configured to. |
| 20:57 | <@AnnoDomini> | I seem to remember ReivSLEP having said something on the subject of clients which didn't take the hint. :p |
| 20:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and even if that behaviour were clamped on, I fail to see how it's worse than a payware client built on stolen code that only supports one, shitty, programming language) |
| 20:58 | < jerith> | If you reconnect after a /kill, you get an akill. |
| 20:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then why wasn't it an akill in the first place? |
| 20:59 | < jerith> | Well, reconnect immediately. |
| 21:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you have your client configured to do that, you deserve the pain~ |
| 21:00 | < jerith> | I treat a /kill as a final warning. If you disregard it, you get the punishment immediately. |
| 21:01 | <@AnnoDomini> | ((I have a few reasons for not using X-chat. Better familiarity with mIRC (and scripting therein), for one. That X-chat uses GTK is another.)) |
| 21:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and if you really don't like any of the configured behaviours, hey, xchat supports like eight programming languages!) |
| 21:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...what's wrong with GTK? |
| 21:02 | < Syloqs-AFH> | And third. Blue is blue. |
| 21:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Sloooow. Memory gets eaten in larger amounts, too. |
| 21:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | Syloqs-AFH: Pardon? |
| 21:03 | < Syloqs-AFH> | Blue is blue. |
| 21:03 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. Can't argue with that. |
| 21:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...slow? |
| 21:03 | < Syloqs-AFH> | didn't think so. |
| 21:03 | | * ToxicFrog has never observed it to be |
| 21:03 | <@AnnoDomini> | I prefer native, if possible. |
| 21:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although it's true it uses more memory than native. |
| 21:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | OTOH, it actually works on more than one operating system. |
| 21:04 | < Vornicus> | I see a red door and I want to paint it blue |
| 21:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | Blue? Why not black? |
| 21:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | To my mind, a fairly trivial increase in memory usage is well worth not having to completely rewrite my frontend for each release. |
| 21:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | What? Explain... I don't understand. |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | If your program uses the native GUI toolkit - GDI on windows, Aqua on OSX, libX11 on most *nix - it only works on that system. |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Want to port it to a new system? Write a new GUI |
| 21:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | Alright. |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you' |
| 21:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're lucky, this means that the program gets a different interface on each OS, and delays for every OS but the one it's developed on are seriously delayed. |
| 21:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're unlucky, it only supports one OS, period. |
| 21:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | I see. |
| 21:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the other hand, GTK works on at least windows, OSX, and X11-based systems. |
| 21:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | But I pretty much exclusively Windows. It doesn't affect me, so to speak. |
| 21:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | A GTK-based program, barring other platform depencies, will be fairly easy to port to other platforms, and will have a consistent interface and capabilities across all of them. |
| 21:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 21:09 | | * AnnoDomini ate a verb there, but the meaning is intact. <_< |
| 21:09 | | * ToxicFrog shrugs. Doesn't really affect me these days either, will everything important running on Orias. |
| 21:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. I started arguing from a development perspective there. |
| 21:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. I've noticed. |
| 21:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I do actually much prefer GTK to windows native. |
| 21:10 | | Karnaugh [~karnaugh@siza.thusa.net] has joined #code |
| 21:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | ctrl+shift+u is your tiny god. |
| 21:11 | | * ToxicFrog maps Karnaugh |
| 21:11 | < Karnaugh> | :) |
| 21:11 | | * AnnoDomini does optimization mentally. No need for Karnaugh maps. :P |
| 21:12 | <@AnnoDomini> | ((Sure, it takes longer, but it boggles the mind of those who didn't care for Digital Technology lectures. :))) |
| 21:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, yeah, I consider the extra features in GTK to be worth what is, in practice, a pretty small increase in memory usage, just from an end-user perspective. |
| 21:14 | < jerith> | Karnaugh: Are you looking at my connections on chthon? |
| 21:15 | < Karnaugh> | no, I just felt like seeing whats up here |
| 21:16 | < Karnaugh> | come to think of it now though, I could do that |
| 21:17 | < Karnaugh> | nothing interesting |
| 21:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's up here is random code-related stuff. |
| 21:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Like it says on the box. |
| 21:18 | < jerith> | Karnaugh's a random coder. So he'll fit right in. |
| 21:18 | < jerith> | ToxicFrog's our resident Crazymadhacker. |
| 21:19 | < Karnaugh> | I see |
| 21:19 | < jerith> | He writes object systems for lua. |
| 21:19 | < Karnaugh> | what other channels are fun? |
| 21:19 | < jerith> | Karnaugh: The ones that are the most fun are closed, mostly. |
| 21:19 | < jerith> | #math is interesting when there's activity. |
| 21:19 | | * Vornicus is the Interface Nazi. |
| 21:20 | < jerith> | (He's a mac person.) |
| 21:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: I think my postscript-based IRC client was more crazymad than any of my Lua OO systems. |
| 21:20 | < jerith> | (We like him, because he's a Python boy too.) |
| 21:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | OTOH, it was never published. |
| 21:21 | < jerith> | ToxicFrog: Your PS-based IRC client is the reason you're crazymad. The lua object systems are just what you're famous for. ;-) |
| 21:21 | < Karnaugh> | I've only been published once... but it was in a car magazine and it was about car jacks |
| 21:21 | < Karnaugh> | not sure if that counts |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha. That makes sense. |
| 21:21 | | * AnnoDomini is the Archaic Software Nut. |
| 21:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | This kind of pigeonholing is lossy, though |
| 21:22 | < jerith> | AnnoDomini is also our Mad Pole. |
| 21:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | :P |
| 21:22 | < jerith> | gnolam is the Kommissar. |
| 21:23 | < jerith> | And ReivSLEP is terrified of toasters. |
| 21:23 | < ReivSLEP> | OMG TOASTER |
| 21:23 | | * ReivSLEP dives for cover. |
| 21:24 | < Vornicus> | Poor Reiver. |
| 21:24 | < jerith> | Yeah. |
| 21:25 | < jerith> | Pi works for the Empire. |
| 21:25 | < Vornicus> | As does Raif. |
| 21:25 | < jerith> | Chalain is oodles of fun when he's around. |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | But we tolerate them anyways~ |
| 21:25 | < Vornicus> | Syloq... well, we blame Syloq. |
| 21:25 | < jerith> | Yes, but Raif works for the soft hippie part of the Empire. |
| 21:26 | < Vornicus> | *snrk* |
| 21:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | If we don't enjoy our stay, of course, Vornicus. |
| 21:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: which part is that? |
| 21:26 | < Vornicus> | I enjoy my stay, and I /still/ blame Syloq. |
| 21:26 | < Vornicus> | TF: Office for Mac |
| 21:26 | < Vornicus> | (which is still the best office suite for mac.) |
| 21:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aahy. |
| 21:27 | < Vornicus> | It is also through him that I understand the complete wacktacularity of Microsoft Office. |
| 21:27 | < jerith> | Pi has become an audiophile through his work. |
| 21:28 | < jerith> | McMartin hasw an office down the corridor from Donald Knuth. |
| 21:28 | < jerith> | And TheWatcher watches the watchers. |
| 21:29 | <@TheWatcher> | And even those who do not watch |
| 21:29 | | mode/#code [+oooooo Chalain EvilDarkLord jerith Karnaugh Pi Raif] by AnnoDomini |
| 21:30 | | mode/#code [+oooo ReivSLEP Serah Syloqs-AFH Vornicus] by AnnoDomini |
| 21:30 | <@TheWatcher> | (especially if they're using perl) |
| 21:30 | <@jerith> | Dude, you opped Karnaugh? |
| 21:30 | <@jerith> | You're brave. :-P |
| 21:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin writes IF and does scary scary things with Java bytecode. |
| 21:30 | <@Vornicus> | We know Karnaugh, he's been around before. |
| 21:30 | | * jerith grins. |
| 21:30 | | * AnnoDomini is not brave, merely has inside knowledge. :P |
| 21:31 | | mode/#code [+vv DiceBot KarmaBot] by Vornicus |
| 21:31 | | * Karnaugh is everywhere |
| 21:32 | | * AnnoDomini ponders whether ReivSLEP has gotten around to that little adjustment to DiceBot. |
| 21:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | !roll 1d20 |
| 21:32 | <+DiceBot> | [AnnoDomini] rolled 1d20: (5) = 5. |
| 21:32 | <+KarmaBot> | [AnnoDomini] rolled 1d20: (4) = 4. |
| 21:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | No. |
| 21:32 | | * AnnoDomini shakes his head. |
| 21:45 | | * ToxicFrog ponders writing an Inherently Superior version of blcgen, or perhaps working on struct instead... |
| 21:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or I could work on the Glade bindings. |
| 21:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mmmm, Glade. |
| 21:47 | | * Vornicus remembers that he still has to build the environment for X-Defence. |
| 22:02 | <@jerith> | Hmm, I need a zblorb interpreter, apparently. |
| 22:07 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-10147.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 22:07 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 22:07 | <@gnolam> | ToxicFrog: xchat didn't cut it last time I tried it at least. |
| 22:08 | <@gnolam> | Non-native like hell. |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 22:33 | <@McMartin> | jerith: WinFrotz version 1.09 or later. |
| 22:34 | <@McMartin> | For some reason WinFrotz version 2.x is actually much earlier and out-of-date. |
| 23:28 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyAFK |
| 23:36 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26823.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:36 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 23:57 | | ChalcyAFK is now known as Chalcedon |
| --- Log closed Thu Aug 16 00:00:32 2007 |