| --- Log opened Sun Jul 22 00:00:48 2007 |
| 00:52 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Those who slay dragons become dragons themselves. Stare into the abyss long enough, and it will stare back at you.] |
| 00:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 01:52 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
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| 03:39 | | Chalain [~chalain@Nightstar-4184.res.logixcom.net] has joined #code |
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| 03:41 | | ChalcyAtMahals [~Mahal@Nightstar-5025.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 03:42 | < ChalcyAtMahals> | I got an A!! |
| 03:42 | < ChalcyAtMahals> | and first class honours |
| 03:43 | | * ChalcyAtMahals hugs Vorn, TF and Reiver |
| 03:46 | | ChalcyAtMahals is now known as Mahal |
| 03:47 | <@Reiver> | YAY CHALCY |
| 03:47 | <@Reiver> | Congratulations, my dear. :D |
| 03:47 | <@Reiver> | (How's that for a birthday present?) |
| 03:47 | < Mahal> | <chalcy> That makes a really good birthday present! |
| 03:57 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | YAY CHALCY! |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Woot, Chalcy! |
| 04:26 | | * ToxicFrog deploys stoatkebabs |
| 04:53 | | * Reiver nom |
| 05:44 | <@Raif> | Can I have a stoatkebab? |
| 06:19 | < Mahal> | <Chalcedon> /me nrom |
| 06:52 | <@Reiver> | So what's Chalcy up to over there, Mahal? :) |
| 06:52 | <@Reiver> | Raif: Of course. This very channel was founded on stoats. |
| 06:52 | <@Reiver> | In buckets. |
| 06:52 | | * Reiver nods sagely. |
| 07:47 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-17168.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:47 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-17168.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:12 | <@Raif> | Bucket stoats are my favorite. |
| 08:21 | <@Reiver> | It was actually a bin-filling problem, where one had to measure the distance each sample in a bin had to travel in order for a random set of filled bins to spread out their contents evenly among them. |
| 08:21 | <@Reiver> | The conversation started on stoats. |
| 08:22 | <@Reiver> | Spreading stoats out between bins, however, got a bit messy, and thus stoatburgers were invented. ;) |
| 08:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:35 | <@Raif> | Wait... |
| 08:35 | <@Raif> | If you have a random set of filled bins, and their contents are to spread out evenly, assuming each bin is equal... your average travel is 0. |
| 08:35 | <@Raif> | Because on average, they'll be uniformly distributed. :P |
| 08:36 | <@Reiver> | No, no. This isn't on average. |
| 08:37 | <@Reiver> | This was a calculation to determine the 'distance' needed for a particular set. |
| 08:37 | <@Raif> | Ah, so not a random distribution, then. :) |
| 08:37 | | * Reiver twitches. |
| 08:37 | <@Reiver> | There's a mathematical formula for working it out, but Chalcy needed it computerised. |
| 08:38 | <@Reiver> | Well, formula/process. |
| 08:38 | <@Reiver> | (As many things in science are. "Here's the formula, here's /how you use it/".) |
| 08:38 | <@Raif> | Who eez zees "Chalky" I keep hearink about? |
| 08:38 | <@Reiver> | Chalcy = Chalcedon. |
| 08:38 | <@Raif> | I can has it? |
| 08:40 | <@Raif> | Is it a food? |
| 08:40 | <@Reiver> | Chalcedon is a Forjeh's wife. |
| 08:40 | <@Reiver> | It may well be edible, but I think he'd object if you tried. |
| 08:41 | <@Reiver> | Go nibble your own instead. :P |
| 08:41 | <@Raif> | Mine is also "Chalky" |
| 08:41 | <@Raif> | Though good with rice. |
| 09:53 | | Reiver is now known as ReivOut |
| 10:40 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5025.worldnet.co.nz] has left #Code [Leaving] |
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| 12:42 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 15:58 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 16:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | I want to stab people who claim that "+ is intuitive for string concatenation" in the face. |
| 16:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | Why? |
| 16:12 | | * jerith likes ++ for string concatenation. |
| 16:13 | | * AnnoDomini likes "var1 var2" for string concatenation. |
| 16:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because summation is not concatenation, and just because Java can get away with shitting all over mathematical operators doesn't mean that (1234 + "5678") is unambiguous in every language. |
| 16:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially in, say, bash, where the distinction between a number and a string is entirely in how you use it, or Lua, which coerces between strings and numbers to let you intermix them in mathematical expressions. |
| 16:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. There's got to be a way to get memoize() to play nice with functions that take multiple arguments. |
| 16:58 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 17:20 | <@Pi> | Visual Basic uses & for string concatenation. That would work as long as you're not worried about being confused with bitwise-AND on your strings. |
| 17:21 | <@Pi> | PHP uses '.', which infuriates me because I keep thinking "That second string is not a member of the first" |
| 17:22 | <@Pi> | I guess you could use '~', which doesn't already have an intuitive meaning in every language ever created. Really, if your argument holds water, we're going to run out of the ASCII set pretty quickly. |
| 17:22 | <@Pi> | I suppose you could expand your charset to unicode code points, but then your compiler has to be locale-aware. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lua uses .. |
| 17:23 | <@Pi> | Clearly, because ToxicFrog is uncomfortable with it, we just shouldn't allow string concatenation under any circumstances. |
| 17:23 | <@Pi> | :P |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...that is a hilarious leap of !logic you made there. |
| 17:24 | <@Pi> | Right. See the line I posted right after. |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | From "+ sucks as a concatenation operator" to "string concatenation is bad" in four sentences? I am in awe. |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | :P |
| 17:25 | <@jerith> | http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3117/ |
| 17:25 | <@Pi> | Ah, yes, the PEPs, where all of python's best ideas are shot down. |
| 17:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | I can't even see three of those in my browser. |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | PEPs? |
| 17:27 | <@jerith> | Python Enhancement Proposals. |
| 17:27 | <@Pi> | The declarator for the None type is a zero-width space. <-- Excellent! |
| 17:28 | <@AnnoDomini> | Black Nib, Double-Ended Multimap and Atom Symbol aren't parsed by Firefox. :/ |
| 17:29 | <@jerith> | Black Nib and Atom Symbol are fine here. |
| 17:29 | <@Pi> | I get black nib, but not double-ended multimap, watch, atom symbol, or electric arrow. (Firefox 2.0.0.4) |
| 17:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm using 2.0.0.5. |
| 17:31 | <@jerith> | Firefox/1.5.0.9 |
| 17:31 | <@Pi> | I suspect it has much more to do with OS fonts/locales installed. |
| 17:31 | | * Pi is using Windows Vista SP1 |
| 17:31 | | * AnnoDomini is using Win98SE. |
| 17:31 | <@Pi> | Ewwww |
| 17:32 | | * jerith is using (ugh) RHEL5. |
| 17:32 | | * AnnoDomini also has successfully sent the conversation on a different track. :) |
| 17:32 | <@Pi> | hehe |
| 17:32 | <@jerith> | Suppertime, methinks. |
| 17:33 | | * jerith takes his aunt to a chinese/sushi place. |
| 17:33 | | * jerith prods the shinybot. |
| 17:33 | <@jerith> | Must be channeltied. |
| 17:34 | <@Pi> | Dude, I understand if you don't like your aunt that much, but chopping her into sushi? That's just cruel. |
| 17:34 | <@Pi> | PiBot only works in certain channels. I expect shinybot is the same. |
| 17:34 | <@jerith> | Nah, she wouldn't make very tasty sushi. |
| 17:35 | <@jerith> | Deep fried on noodles, however... |
| 17:35 | <@Pi> | That's what I said. Cruel to the other patrons. |
| 17:36 | | * Pi chops up Win98SE and serves it over rice. |
| 17:36 | <@jerith> | Are you trying to poison us?!? |
| 17:37 | <@Pi> | Yes. |
| 17:37 | | * jerith only switched to XP from 98 when usb support became necessary, actually. |
| 17:37 | <@jerith> | But this was on old wardware so performance was an issue. |
| 17:38 | <@Pi> | <kreely> Over rice even. I would've just done straight noodles. |
| 17:44 | | * AnnoDomini ponders why some people put a double-space between sentences. He's noticed this particularly happens to non-noob leftpondians. |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | I used to. |
| 17:45 | <@jerith> | It's supposed to be more readable, but isn't really typographically correct. |
| 17:47 | <@Pi> | It's how I was taught formal writing. I find it to be much more readable, but years of reading others' work without the double-space means I can go either way. |
| 17:48 | <@Pi> | The "non-noob" comment, I find redundant, though. How many noobs do you knwo that can even use a period, let alone decide how many spaces with which to follow it? |
| 17:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | I just felt like being specific. |
| 17:49 | <@Pi> | :) |
| 17:49 | <@Pi> | I'll take it as a complement. |
| 17:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | :) |
| 17:50 | <@Pi> | The term 'leftpond' though still gets me a little irked. Being on the left coast of my continent, I'm very much on the right side of the pond. And my pond is much, MUCH bigger than that silly thing to the left of Europe and Africa. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | Pi: that's the lake. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | You're in rightlakia. |
| 17:51 | <@Pi> | hehe, point taken. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | The east coast of my own country is leftpuddleton. |
| 17:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | Pft. |
| 18:01 | | * Pi reinflates AnnoDomini. |
| 18:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | Chalain in da PiKreeVerm house? :P |
| 18:05 | <@Pi> | Nah. Pi just filling in. |
| 18:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | I see. Oh, well, back to HP7. |
| 18:35 | | AnnoDomini is now known as JohnBDoe |
| 19:46 | <@Raif> | I'm apparently only missing the atom symbol and electric arrow. My browser ownzors j00. |
| 19:46 | <@Raif> | (Also firefox... hehehe) |
| 19:47 | <@Raif> | I'll bet I have extra fonts from installing office or something. |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have all of them except double-ended multimap. |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Opera here. |
| 19:54 | <@Raif> | So if I understand this, it's Hungarian on steroids. |
| 19:59 | | Takyoji [~caleblang@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 19:59 | < Takyoji> | What's the difference between milliamps and milliamp-hours? |
| 20:02 | <@jerith> | One is a measure of current, the other is a measure of energy. |
| 20:03 | < Takyoji> | ah |
| 20:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | One milliamp-hour is the amount of energy delivered by a 1 mA current over a period of one hour. |
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| 20:49 | | Forjadon is now known as ChalcyLaptop |
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| 23:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:43 | <@Chalain> | AnnoDomini / JohnBDoe: period, double-space is actually a ageist remark--it's not so much non-noobs as people who are old enough to have learned to type on mechanical devices, which were, notable, fixed-width. I was under the impression that this was the proper styleguide for the Queen's Typography as well as here in the colonies. The double-space started dying out with the advent of proportionally-spaced fonts. |
| 23:44 | <@JohnBDoe> | I see. |
| 23:44 | | * JohnBDoe uses Fixedsys for mIRC. <_< |
| 23:45 | <@Chalain> | About 2 years ago somebody pulled me aside and said, "Um, dude? You know you're not supposed to do that anymore, right?" I still do it from time to time, though. 2 years of trying to change doesn't hold much weight against 30+ years of reading and typing. |
| 23:46 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:46 | <@Chalain> | But yeah, I don't know if it is this way for typewritten manuscripts--or even if typewritten manuscripts are still in vogue; I've heard that the screenwriting and novel industry has been reluctant to move with the times--but for electronic media, you can blame the Mac users and their Our Way Is Prettiest bigotry. :-) |
| 23:51 | <@Chalain> | Sorry--the "where I was going" of that statement is that I know that printed mss in proportional fonts are dot-space, and ALL electronic text, proportional or fixed, is now supposed to be dot-space. But I believe printed fixed-width, albeit possibly only in scriptwriting and fiction for publication, is still dot-space-space. |
| 23:52 | | * Serah uses Ms sans serif for IRC. |
| 23:52 | | * Chalain uses whatever Konsole came with. |
| 23:52 | <@Serah> | Or Tahoma, I don't rightly remember, 3s lemme check. |
| 23:52 | <@Serah> | Tahoma. |
| 23:52 | <@Chalain> | Lucida or some similar. But it's fixed width. |
| 23:53 | <@Serah> | Lucida console, it's very akin to fixedsys, it just has serifs. |
| 23:53 | <@Chalain> | I did IRC in fixed-width for so long that I found myself unable to switch to ps. |
| 23:53 | <@Chalain> | Though I did manage to switch to ps for writing code, for a while. THAT was a mindbender. |
| 23:53 | <@Serah> | Fixed-width fonts are designed for presentation, not readability. |
| 23:53 | <@Chalain> | ... |
| 23:54 | <@Serah> | And if I am to spend 12 hours a day on IRC, I would wish for the font to be easy to read. |
| 23:54 | <@Chalain> | I believe you, but I do not understand you. |
| 23:54 | <@Serah> | Erh... |
| 23:54 | <@Chalain> | Please define diff presentation, readability |
| 23:54 | <@Chalain> | (I get that there's a diff, I'm just not clear on which of many possible meanings you indicate as being most relevant.) |
| 23:54 | <@Serah> | AV is the perfect example. |
| 23:55 | <@Chalain> | So, FW is good for captions, subtitles, headlines, and general short-form blurbage? |
| 23:56 | <@Serah> | Or things that has to look a specific way. |
| 23:56 | <@Serah> | Poems can benefit from fixed-width fonts. |
| 23:56 | <@Chalain> | Ah, okay. Things where the font becomes part of the graphics. |
| 23:56 | <@Serah> | Yes, or is the graphics. |
| 23:56 | <@Serah> | It's easier to distinguish words with a nonfixed font. |
| 23:57 | <@Serah> | Which may, in turn, add to reading speed. |
| 23:57 | <@Chalain> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syf8olcM0z4 <-- Foul language alert |
| 23:58 | <@Chalain> | That's the most beautiful use of font I've seen in a long time. :-) |
| 23:59 | <@Serah> | :p |
| --- Log closed Mon Jul 23 00:00:14 2007 |