| --- Log opened Mon Jul 16 00:00:11 2007 |
| 00:18 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-28825.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: There is no Dana, only Zuul.] |
| 00:51 | | GeekSoldier|Sleep [~Rob@Nightstar-2927.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 00:53 | | GeekSoldier|Sleep [~Rob@Nightstar-2927.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 01:14 | <@Pi> | Python has a serious problem with treating whitespace with grammatical significance, but I tend to think ending comments at EOL is probably not an example of this. |
| 01:14 | <@Chalcedon> | I can see the logic |
| 01:14 | <@Chalcedon> | It's just irritating when trying to comment out a 10-15 line function. |
| 01:15 | <@Chalcedon> | well, irritating from the point of view of someone who likes to keep those kinds of movements to a minimum. |
| 01:15 | <@Pi> | The problem here is with your editor, not with the language. Nearly all of the good code editors out there will have some sort of "comment block" functionality. |
| 01:16 | <@Chalcedon> | I'm just using IDLE. |
| 01:16 | <@Chalcedon> | I have been thinking about switching but hadn't applied any thought to it yet. |
| 01:17 | <@Pi> | One of the most important things a person can do to become a better (more effective/efficient) programmer is to pick a powerful code editor (doesn't really matter which one) and learn it well. |
| 01:18 | <@Chalcedon> | any suggestions on editors to investigate? |
| 01:18 | | * Pi uses MS DevStoooo. |
| 01:19 | <@Pi> | But as for suggestions? Not really. |
| 01:19 | <@Chalcedon> | thanks :) |
| 01:19 | | * Chalcedon will investigate this |
| 01:19 | <@Pi> | (Visual Studio is an excellent editor, but has two major drawbacks: 1) It costs money. 2) It runs only on Windows) |
| 01:21 | <@Chalcedon> | I have a windows machine |
| 01:21 | <@Chalcedon> | I use Visual Studio during my programming course. Do you know if it can be edited to support Python? |
| 01:21 | <@Chalcedon> | *used |
| 01:21 | <@Pi> | 3) It's only really effective with the languages that it ships with. |
| 01:22 | <@Chalcedon> | woe :( |
| 01:22 | <@Chalcedon> | (I have a free, legal copy) |
| 01:22 | <@Pi> | You can add "profiles" for partial support of other languages, but they can't get the most useful features like intellisense. |
| 01:23 | < Vornicus> | note that intellisense doesn't work well with dynamically typed languages. |
| 01:23 | <@Chalcedon> | remind me what the difference between dynamically and statically typed languages is please? |
| 01:23 | <@Pi> | I use it because I use it at work to dev on Windows boxes in C++, and I got it really cheap through my company. |
| 01:24 | < Vornicus> | Dynamically typed languages, you do not specify the type of object a variable has. |
| 01:24 | <@Chalcedon> | gothcha |
| 01:24 | < Vornicus> | It figures that out while it's running, and it can change. |
| 01:24 | <@Chalcedon> | -er- |
| 01:24 | <@Chalcedon> | gotcha. |
| 01:24 | | * Chalcedon nods |
| 01:26 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 01:27 | < Vornicus> | the C family of languages is statically typed. |
| 01:27 | < Vornicus> | Python is dynamically typed. |
| 01:28 | | * Chalcedon nods |
| 01:28 | <@Chalcedon> | I know what you're getting at... I just didn't know that was the name for it. |
| 01:31 | < Vornicus> | The advantage of statically typed languages is that your compiler/interpreter can figure out a lot of really cool things. |
| 01:34 | | * Chalcedon pokes Reiver |
| 01:35 | | * Reiver cookies Chalcedon |
| 01:35 | <@Chalcedon> | I recall you talking about Eclipse while learning java. |
| 01:35 | <@Reiver> | Yes? |
| 01:35 | <@Chalcedon> | am I remembering correctly? |
| 01:35 | <@Reiver> | It's a software development kit. |
| 01:35 | <@Chalcedon> | I know that ;) |
| 01:35 | <@Reiver> | Oh, right. |
| 01:35 | <@Chalcedon> | is it open source? |
| 01:35 | <@Reiver> | Yep! |
| 01:35 | | * Chalcedon googles |
| 01:38 | | * Chalcedon decides to try this |
| 01:38 | < Vornicus> | Eclipse, I find, is waay too heavy for smaller projects. |
| 01:40 | <@Chalcedon> | I need to start somewhere though. |
| 01:40 | <@Chalcedon> | and at least this way I know I can poke somebody if I get stuck. |
| 01:40 | < Vornicus> | Like, I wouldn't dare use it for things under ten thousand LOC. |
| 01:40 | | * Chalcedon cookies Vorn |
| 01:40 | <@Chalcedon> | what's a LOC? |
| 01:40 | < Vornicus> | Lines Of Code |
| 01:40 | <@Chalcedon> | o.O |
| 01:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Does it talk Python? |
| 01:41 | <@Chalcedon> | it does if you add a plug in |
| 01:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 01:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | (also, NEdit is delicious) |
| 01:42 | < Vornicus> | Personally I use TextWrangler, which is for Mac. It's quite nice. |
| 01:42 | <@Chalcedon> | sadly, I lack a mac. |
| 01:43 | <@Chalcedon> | I haven't yet got around to reinstalling Cygwin unfortunately TF. |
| 02:47 | | Reiver is now known as ReivClass |
| 03:45 | | GeekSoldier|Sleep is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 03:46 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GeekSoldier_ |
| 03:46 | | GeekSoldier_ is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 03:51 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GeekSoldier|Work |
| 03:59 | | GeekSoldier|Work [~Rob@Nightstar-2927.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 04:41 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyOut |
| 05:42 | | ChalcyOut is now known as Chalcedon |
| 06:16 | | ReivClass is now known as Reiver |
| 07:42 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:37 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 09:27 | | Forjadon [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:27 | | mode/#code [+o Forjadon] by ChanServ |
| 09:33 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 09:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:51 | | Forjadon is now known as ChalcyLaptop |
| 09:57 | < Vornicus> | Have some python code: |
| 09:57 | < Vornicus> | def ceiling(n, units = 1): |
| 09:57 | < Vornicus> | base = int(n/units) |
| 09:57 | < Vornicus> | multiple = base + (0 if base >= n else 1) |
| 09:57 | < Vornicus> | return multiple * units |
| 09:58 | | * ChalcyLaptop blink |
| 09:59 | < Vornicus> | This works fine for pretty much everything - well, okay, you need to special case for units == 0, but - including n and units having opposite signs |
| 10:00 | < Vornicus> | But both OOXML (which uses a slightly different formula anyway) and ODF, and their predecessors, define it to throw an error when n and sign have opposite signs. |
| 10:44 | | ChalcyLaptop [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:45 | | Forjadon [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:45 | | mode/#code [+o Forjadon] by ChanServ |
| 10:46 | | Forjadon is now known as ChalcyLaptop |
| 10:54 | | Forjadon [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 10:54 | | mode/#code [+o Forjadon] by ChanServ |
| 10:54 | | ChalcyLaptop [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:57 | | Forjadon is now known as ChalcyLaptop |
| 11:00 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 11:00 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 11:02 | | ChalcyLaptop [~Forjadon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 11:56 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 12:13 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 12:13 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has joined #Code |
| 12:14 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 12:15 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 12:16 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has joined #Code |
| 12:16 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 12:18 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 12:19 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has joined #Code |
| 12:19 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 12:22 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 12:23 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has joined #Code |
| 12:23 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 12:25 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 12:26 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.35.ns-3885] has joined #Code |
| 12:26 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 13:48 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18504.cs.bris.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 15:00 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-18504.cs.bris.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Swim, swim, hungry!] |
| 15:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | GTK-Server is Made Of Awesome. |
| 15:41 | <@AnnoDomini> | Indeed? |
| 15:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. Are you familiar with it? |
| 15:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | No. |
| 15:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Basically, it's the X11 concept applied to a GUI library. |
| 15:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | You run gtk-server, then talk to it over stdin, fifo, TCP, UDP, shared memory, or (if built as a DSO) direct function calls. |
| 15:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | You send it strings, it replies with strings. |
| 15:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | This means that any language that supports some subset of (file IO, TCP/UDP networking, direct IPC, DSO loading) - ie, all of them - can use GTK+ with no additional bindings or modifications. |
| 15:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also means that you can trivially do things like select() on both network events and GUI events simultaneously. |
| 15:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, for the final awesomecookie, it supports Glade. |
| 15:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | And since it supports networking, you can do networked display even for systems that don't have X11. |
| 16:00 | | GeekSoldier|Work [~Rob@Nightstar-2927.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 16:01 | | GeekSoldier|Work is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 16:06 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-1463.cs.bris.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 16:07 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 16:07 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 16:07 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:08 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 16:08 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 16:19 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:19 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 16:35 | | MyCatVerbs [~rb6822@Nightstar-1463.cs.bris.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Swim, swim, hungry!] |
| 16:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 18:30 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 18:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:31 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 18:31 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 18:32 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-2927.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 18:32 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-4186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 18:33 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GeekSoldier_ |
| 18:34 | | GeekSoldier_ is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 18:35 | | * ToxicFrog fiddles with Lua, specifically with something that will combine with Glade and gtk-server to create an automatically generated widget heirarchy |
| 18:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | DIEEEEEEEEEEEE |
| 18:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | DIE, XML |
| 18:48 | | * jerith burns an XML spec. |
| 18:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And while I'm at it |
| 18:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | DIE, UBUNTU, DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE |
| 18:50 | | * ToxicFrog feeds them both to the headcrabs |
| 18:51 | | * jerith hands ToxicFrog a Debian. |
| 18:56 | | * ToxicFrog dismembers it and nails the pieces to the boot sector as a warning to the others. |
| 18:57 | | * jerith hands ToxicFrog a Gentoo. |
| 18:58 | | * ToxicFrog gives it a more-in-sorrow-than-anger look and tells it to run along and come back when it has a better package management system. |
| 18:58 | <@jerith> | s/package management system/quality control process on the repo/ |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | It needs a useful package manager before the repo contents become relevant~ |
| 19:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. I vote that we round up some Ubuntu devs and beat them with the Filesystem Heirarchy Standard until they stop breaking the fuck out of my scripts, thanks. |
| 19:02 | | * jerith mourns the replacement of /mnt/ with /media/ |
| 19:03 | < GeekSoldier> | yes, even knoppix has done this. |
| 19:04 | <@jerith> | I still resolutely use /mnt for everything that isn't built-in hardware, however. |
| 19:05 | <@jerith> | Although usually usb drives go in /media/ too. |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | /media isn't a replacement, it's an addition. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | /media is specifically for removable media (floppies, CDs, etc) |
| 19:06 | <@jerith> | Yeah. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | /mnt is for everything else. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure whether USB sticks officially count as removable media, but Fedora puts them in /media. |
| 19:06 | <@jerith> | But I had to rewrite a whole bunch of scripts when that changed. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | In this case, the script breakage comes from the fact that someone thought it would be a good idea to put env in /usr/bin. |
| 19:07 | <@jerith> | I've gotten used to it, but I don't have to like it. |
| 19:07 | <@jerith> | I thought env always lived in /usr/bin? |
| 19:07 | < GeekSoldier> | yes, but it tried to mount some new scsi drives in /media. |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is something you do not fucking do, because there are a lot of scripts that start with #!/bin/env foo |
| 19:08 | < GeekSoldier> | that was very against what I wanted. |
| 19:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | For some foo that might be in /bin or might be in /usr/bin or might be in /usr/local/bin or might be in /usr/X11R6/bin etc. |
| 19:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: AFAIK, Ubuntu and possibly Debian and some BSD variants are the only things that put it in /usr/bin. |
| 19:09 | <@jerith> | [jerith@jerith-lap1 ~]$ which env |
| 19:09 | <@jerith> | /usr/bin/env |
| 19:09 | <@jerith> | RHEL 5 |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | RH and Fedora put a link in /usr/bin. |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | So you can access it with either. |
| 19:09 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | ben@orias ~ |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | $ ls -l /usr/bin/env |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Jun 17 14:05 /usr/bin/env -> ../../bin/env |
| 19:10 | <@jerith> | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Jun 4 11:39 /usr/bin/env -> ../../bin/env |
| 19:10 | <@jerith> | Yeah. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not all systems do, but on the vast majority of linuxes you can be confident that /bin/env will be there. |
| 19:10 | <@jerith> | All the scripts I've ever seen it in use /usr/bin/env, though. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ubuntu, however, sticks the actual binary in /usr/bin and doesn't bother linking. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Really? |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | All the ones I've seen use /bin/env |
| 19:11 | <@jerith> | I haven't seen very many, though |
| 19:13 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Quem quer o garfo?] |
| 19:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | And in the various places I've seen that recommend the use of env rather than direct paths, they always recommend /bin/env. |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. Back to hating XML. |
| 19:16 | <@jerith> | A sentiment I don't think anyone here would disagree with. |
| 19:16 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 19:17 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 19:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm the only person in here currently writing a restricted XML parser, though ;.; |
| 19:19 | <@jerith> | Ugh. |
| 19:20 | <@jerith> | How much of XML do you need? |
| 19:20 | <@jerith> | But first, bathtime. |
| 19:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Enough to pull the <widget> and <signal> tags out of a Glade file. |
| 19:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Including telling what widget each widget and signal belongs to. |
| 19:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | If not for that I could just...oh hey, cunning plan |
| 19:25 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GeekSoldier|Bed |
| 19:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hah, victory! |
| 19:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | In a mere 45 lines of horrible regex-covered code of agony! |
| 19:36 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:36 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 19:37 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 19:38 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the plus side, it's given me this: |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | gtk = setmetatable({}, { |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | __index = function(self, key) |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | return function(...) |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | return real_gtk(table.concat({ "gtk_"..key, ... }, " ")) |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | end |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | end |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | }) |
| 19:57 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-15747.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: gone] |
| 20:35 | < Vornicus-Latens> | I don't remember ever seeing /bin/env anywhere. |
| 20:53 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 20:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Odd. |
| 20:54 | | * ToxicFrog tries to figure out why bind isn't working |
| 21:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...because the BUILD* environment variables are unset. |
| 21:52 | | * ToxicFrog facedesks. |
| 21:56 | | GeekSoldier|Bed [~Rob@Nightstar-4186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Woot! |
| 22:04 | | * ToxicFrog successfully creates something in Glade and feeds it to Lua and GTK-Server to get automatic event bindings |
| 22:20 | | Netsplit Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net <-> DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net quits: EvilDarkLord, AnnoDomini, +KarmaBot, @ToxicFrog, Vornicus, @Pi, NSGuest-14, @jerith, Raif, @Chalain |
| 22:26 | | Netsplit over, joins: EvilDarkLord, NSGuest-14, Chalain, jerith, +KarmaBot, Pi, Vornicus, Raif, ToxicFrog, AnnoDomini |
| 22:26 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 22:26 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 22:26 | | mode/#code [-o ReivZzz] by ChanServ |
| 22:30 | | * ToxicFrog adds masking by arbitrary properties to glade_build_widget_tree |
| 22:37 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 22:37 | | mode/#code [+ooo Raif ReivZzz Vornicus] by AnnoDomini |
| 22:37 | | mode/#code [+o EvilDarkLord] by AnnoDomini |
| 22:52 | | Netsplit Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net <-> DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net quits: @EvilDarkLord, @AnnoDomini, +KarmaBot, ToxicFrog, @Vornicus, Pi, NSGuest-14, jerith, @Raif, Chalain |
| 22:53 | | Netsplit over, joins: Chalain |
| 22:53 | | Netsplit over, joins: @jerith, @EvilDarkLord, NSGuest-14, KarmaBot, @Pi, @Vornicus, @Raif, @ToxicFrog, @AnnoDomini |
| 22:53 | | ServerMode/#Code [+oo jerith Chalain] by Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net |
| 22:53 | | ServerMode/#Code [+v KarmaBot] by Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net |
| 22:53 | | Netsplit over, joins: EvilDarkLord, NSGuest-14, ToxicFrog |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o Chalain] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+v KarmaBot] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o Pi] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [-o Raif] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 22:58 | | mode/#code [+oooo EvilDarkLord NSGuest-14 Raif ToxicFrog] by AnnoDomini |
| 23:16 | | EDL [~EDL@Nightstar-28403.proxy2.balk.dk] has joined #code |
| 23:21 | | EDL [~EDL@Nightstar-28403.proxy2.balk.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 23:35 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| --- Log closed Tue Jul 17 00:00:17 2007 |