| --- Log opened Wed Apr 04 00:00:22 2007 |
| 00:23 | | * McMartin finds an XSS vulnerability! |
| 00:26 | <@Vornicus> | Ooh, you get to use the PWNED stamp! |
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| 02:23 | | MyCatGames is now known as MyCatVerbs |
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| 03:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | hmmm |
| 03:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | either everyone's coding is going along very smoothly or not at all :P |
| 03:34 | | * Vornicus is fiddling with orbital mechanics, and finds his math to be, uh, well... be glad he's not a rocket scientist, is all |
| 03:34 | | Chalcedon [Chalceon@Nightstar-5157.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 03:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | Doctor_Nick: I'm firmly of the latter category. make's man page sucks, y'know? |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | http://vorn.dyndns.org/~vorn/badorbit.png |
| 03:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Make sucks, period. |
| 03:41 | < Doctor_Nick> | you gon' burn, boy |
| 03:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately the alternatives are all worse. |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | Rake is decent, if you don't absolutely abhor Ruby. |
| 03:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: inverse SQUARE law, not inverse law? =D |
| 03:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: I'm open to suggestions. |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: well, in Rake's case it's because you now need to add Rake and a Ruby terp to the package. |
| 03:42 | <@Vornicus> | MCV: I'm using inverse square. |
| 03:42 | | * MyCatVerbs ponders omake. |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not because Rake is inherently bad (haven't used it enough to come to a conclusion on that) but because you can't rely on it *being there*. |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | scons has the same issue. |
| 03:43 | < MyCatVerbs> | ...hrmn. |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Make you can rely on to be there, but unfortunately you can also rely on it to suck. |
| 03:43 | < MyCatVerbs> | Not really. |
| 03:43 | | * ToxicFrog eyes that orbit |
| 03:43 | < MyCatVerbs> | You don't know if it's going to be GNU make or BSD make or some proprietary make which has fascinating, unique bugs and doesn't adhere to *any* stardards whatsoever. |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | The problem is that I'm not modifying the acceleration as it moves. |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | between samples, that is |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | So i have to figure out how to fix that. |
| 03:44 | < MyCatVerbs> | I'm wondering if it'd be easier to write a custom build program in whatever programming languages you can count on being there. Like, the one the project is written in, and POSIX shellscript. |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. A build system written entirely in sh. |
| 03:46 | | * Vornicus made some wacky stuff in rake. This is a line from his rake script to make postscript files ino PNGs: mass_ps_generate 'SCALEFACTOR/road/COLOR/PATHDIRECTION.png', 'src/road.ps', 'src/faction.ps', 'src/base.ps' |
| 03:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: AAAAA! AAAAAA! AAAAAAAAA! *hides in a corner* |
| 03:47 | <@Vornicus> | I started to do that. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | MCV: hey, it was your idea. |
| 03:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: I was thinking shellscript as a means of *calling* your-own-language build system. |
| 03:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 03:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Of course, now you need to write it again for every language you work in. |
| 03:49 | < MyCatVerbs> | As in, a shellscript that calls ruby or ghc or g++ or whatever to build the executable which then shells out to the compiler to build everything else. |
| 03:50 | < MyCatVerbs> | The alternative is attempting to write a *minimal* make implementation in C. Concievably something that fit in under, say, four k-LOC without any significant bugs might be acceptable to bundle inside the project itself? |
| 03:51 | <@Vornicus> | (the nice thing about rake is, tasks, rules, shell commands, it's all method calls, in real Ruby code. So you get all the power of a real language underlying it, with actual string processing, and a measure of sanity) |
| 03:51 | <@Vornicus> | (only a measure, though. This /is/ Ruby we're talking about0 |
| 03:51 | < MyCatVerbs> | Heehee. AFAIK, isn't there supposed to be some system for having LISP code that executes at compile time? |
| 03:52 | < MyCatVerbs> | Build the build system into the compilation of the first unit. XD |
| 03:52 | | * ToxicFrog fiddles with his Septerra Core guide generation code |
| 03:55 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: further to your suggestion of rewriting make in sh: http://tinyurl.com/b9h6m |
| 03:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 04:00 | | * ToxicFrog ponders. |
| 04:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Spells have effects are are formed by sequences of cards. |
| 04:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cards have effects and costs, and when combined form spells. |
| 04:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Does the information about which combination forms which spell go in Card or Spell? |
| 04:03 | < MyCatVerbs> | Both. You can then verify that nothing has been fucked up by checking that all the cards point to the same spells as point to the cards as point to the spells as... |
| 04:04 | <@Vornicus> | Spell. |
| 04:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I note that post-generation, both pages will contain the information, so you can easily jump from a card to any spell of which it's a component, and from a spell to any card that can be used to create it) |
| 04:05 | <@Vornicus> | Spell. |
| 04:05 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 04:06 | < Doctor_Nick> | :D >:( |
| 04:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | This actually fits with my instincts, but the *old* code had it in Card. |
| 04:08 | < MyCatVerbs> | I concur with Vorn. Spell is much more intuitive. |
| 04:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and in fact, now I remember why it was in Card. Because that was the easiest way to get the info out of the game: grab a card, and see what spells you could make with it) |
| 04:35 | | MyCatVerbs is now known as MyCatSleeps |
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| 06:07 | < KBot> | KarmaBot v1.19. online and ready. Type "!help commands" for command list. |
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| 17:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 19:28 | | * AnnoDomini sighs. |
| 19:29 | < GeekSoldier> | what's up, AnnoDomini? |
| 19:29 | <@AnnoDomini> | Syloq: GeoTube wishes to discuss his ban. |
| 19:30 | | KarmaBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29516.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 19:30 | < KarmaBot> | KarmaBot v1.19. online and ready. Type "!help commands" for command list. |
| 19:31 | | * AnnoDomini wonders where people like GT come from. And why they don't have any idea why they are so annoying to others. |
| 19:33 | <@AnnoDomini> | Actually, he wants to discuss Bawt. Damn his imprecise ass. :/ |
| 19:36 | | Doctor_Nick [~fdsaf@Nightstar-27777.rag-a.fsu.edu] has joined #code |
| 19:40 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 20:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: out of curiosity, who wrote KarmaBot? |
| 20:41 | <@AnnoDomini> | I did. |
| 20:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | Cool. A modification of an eggdrop or something, or from scratch? |
| 20:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | It's a mIRC instance. |
| 20:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Running on it's dedicated box. |
| 20:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Excuse my gagging. |
| 20:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Retching, even. |
| 20:42 | | * AnnoDomini slaps MyCatVerbs around a bit with a large carp. |
| 20:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Of course. You are excused. |
| 20:44 | | * ToxicFrog vomits up a lung |
| 20:44 | < MyCatVerbs> | That's actually worse than writing it in Perl or *ptoooie!* Bourne shell. |
| 20:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Heh. I still haven't finished my Bash plugin for xchat. |
| 20:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | And to think you haven't even seen what the main roller function looks like. :P |
| 20:47 | <@gnolam> | AnnoDomini: I think Geo knows just how annoying he is. |
| 20:47 | <@gnolam> | He just doesn't care. |
| 20:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Oh. Thus the ban would be fully justified, yes. |
| 20:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | When did he manage to tick everyone off, anyway? |
| 20:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | I'm not arguing with anyone here, it's just that I've never actually had a conversation with the guy. |
| 20:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | He worked his way up. |
| 20:48 | <@gnolam> | About the time he started typing. |
| 20:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | He was very, very random. |
| 20:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | gnolam: besht response I've heard tonight. Planning on usurping WC Fields there? |
| 20:52 | <@gnolam> | What, and give up my day job? Pfft. |
| 20:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | I'm pretty certain it's possible to maintain a reputation for wit without having to devote much more than evenings and weekends to it. |
| 20:55 | <@gnolam> | My contract says all jokes I make in my spare time are the intellectual property of the corporation. |
| 20:55 | < MyCatVerbs> | What were you thinking when you signed that? |
| 20:55 | <@gnolam> | Thus, I never joke. Except when I tell that one about the nun and the talking donkey. |
| 20:56 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hee. |
| 20:56 | < MyCatVerbs> | Pray tell? |
| 21:01 | < MyCatVerbs> | No? Oh well. |
| 21:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 21:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:20 | <@McMartin> | Hmm. New lua in Fedora Extras. |
| 22:20 | <@McMartin> | 5.1.2-1 |
| 22:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | New mzScheme on anything supporting autoconf. If only you can find the damn mzscheme sources. |
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| 23:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, bugfix release. |
| 23:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I need more sophisticated, GameShark-style analysis tools. |
| 23:32 | | * ToxicFrog creates a 2.4MB array |
| 23:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | malloc() doesn't count |
| 23:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | ;) |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...as what? |
| 23:40 | | * ToxicFrog ponders what filters he needs |
| 23:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | == > < ? cover everything, I think. |
| 23:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since with ? I can also construct ?= >= <= |
| 23:45 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: as an analysis tool. gdb usually does, but you're not in C. |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not analyzing code, I'm analyzing data. |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have three files, A, B, C. |
| 23:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ahhhh, I see. |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I need to find out which bytes (1) are 0 in A, (2) didn't change from A to B, and (3) did change from B to C |
| 23:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | GameShark had analysis tools? |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...yes? |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's how the entire 'search for cheats' command worked. |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | It took a snapshot of memory, and then you could filter for stuff that increased/decreased/remained the same/changed at all/equaled a specific value/etc. |
| 23:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | diff(1) in binary mode any good to you? |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | So if, for example, you wanted to derive a cheat to lock your health at maximum, you'd scan, wait a bit, filter for stuff that didn't change, then take some damage, filter for stuff that decreased, etc. |
| 23:49 | < MyCatVerbs> | So, say, you have thirty shotgun shells. Take a snapshot. Fire. Look for a number which changed from thirty to twenty nine/thirty to twenty eight? |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | And eventually you'd narrow it down to the point where you can isolate HP in memory and apply a cheat to it. |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Exactly. |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | The preprogrammed cheats were a mere side feature, the 'shark's true power was its search/analysis features. |
| 23:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | And diff doesn't appear to have a binary mode. I have a quick and dirty binary diff tool that uses od and diff, but it's not powerful enough for this. |
| 23:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I'm writing one. |
| 23:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. If I specify '<' as the filter, should that mean "new < old" or "old < new"? |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | In other words, should it pick up stuff that's decreased, or stuff that's increased? |
| 23:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | new > old |
| 23:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | old < new |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maybe I should remove ambiguity and just say 'increase', 'decrease' |
| 23:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | Er, no, wait. |
| 23:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | What if you use -> and <- for unambiguity instead? |
| 23:54 | < MyCatVerbs> | old->new and new<-old? |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...because those are the implication and assignment operators, respectively. |
| --- Log closed Thu Apr 05 00:00:22 2007 |