| --- Log opened Tue Mar 27 00:00:31 2007 |
| --- Day changed Tue Mar 27 2007 |
| 00:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: very tight timing loops? |
| 00:00 | <@McMartin> | I think that's what BogoMIP is for, yeah. |
| 00:15 | < Doctor_Nick> | i was watching a really bad sc-fi movie earlier and that was one of the lines |
| 00:15 | < Doctor_Nick> | oops |
| 00:15 | < Doctor_Nick> | nvm |
| 00:19 | < MyCatVerbs> | Doctor_Nick: I could believe it, especially if we all happened to be discussing language features at the time. "Higher-order functions are bijectively mappable in polynomial time to functor classes, but it makes me feel dirty to abuse them so," sounds suspiciously Trekkie-like to the uninitiated =D |
| 00:21 | < MyCatVerbs> | ...well, I'm not so sure about the bijective part. The analysis required to identify something's role as a functor class might not be efficiently tractable. ¬¬ |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | If it's C++, you just go "does it override operator()"~ |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | I think you can actually make a case that HOFs and Classes are equivalent both ways, and all classes are HOFs. Just some only ever take one value. |
| 00:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oooh, good point. I like that convention. What if some bastard make you try to tackle the general case, though? |
| 00:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | *made |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | Any virtual function counts. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | Because you could rename any virtual function "operator()". |
| 00:23 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oook. So... |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | Basically, virtual function = the function pointer part of a closure |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | fields in that virtual function's defining class = variables defined in the defining scope of that closure. |
| 00:24 | < MyCatVerbs> | You *could* map classes to HOFs efficiently, but... |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | And I think it's straightforward from there. |
| 00:24 | | * McMartin is more used to the other way, since Python lets you use HOFs unless you need to write to an enclosing state, at which point you have to recode it as a class with fields. |
| 00:24 | < MyCatVerbs> | So if you map HOF->classes->HOF and back again a few dozen times, you'd preserve the meaning but the program would probably get bulkier every time? |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | I'd have to do some pencilwork. It might not be. |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | (bulkier) |
| 00:25 | | * MyCatVerbs blinks. |
| 00:25 | < MyCatVerbs> | That'd certainly violate my unfounded and preconcieved notions of what's easy to compute and what isn't. |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | If you do the translation by abstracting it out into some intermediate form, and you get the same intermediate form from each form |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | Then translating will produce identical results after you do it twice. |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | If you did it with sed or something then yeah, life is hard |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | But even in the worst case you'd be defining one class per function argument. |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | And the bodies remain untouched. |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | So it should fixpoint pretty fast, even if it's not completely perfectly translated |
| 00:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ah. Thank you. |
| 00:28 | | * MyCatVerbs had been thinking in terms of doing it pretty much all with sed and hadn't thought of using an IF like that. |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | Hmm. Actually, the usual word for that is "IR" - "Intermediate Representation." |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | Intermediate Format was just so that the Stanford compiler group could make pig-related puns. |
| 00:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | Thanks. Will remember that. |
| 00:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | ...what? I don't get it. >_< |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | (Stanford University Intermediate Format = SUIF = a somewhat obscure word meaning "pork tallow") |
| 00:30 | < MyCatVerbs> | That is, um, wow. Nice. |
| 00:30 | <@McMartin> | That research group was known internally as "piglets". |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | (The SUIF project itself died shortly after I arrived here, thank all the gods.) |
| 00:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | Stop it, please. I'm already on the verge of giggling like a Korean Starcraft player. |
| 00:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the wire basket in the dome isn't a red herring, I thought? |
| 00:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | You need to light it to get the starmap, which in turn is necessary to stride dramatically into the heavens. |
| 00:58 | <@McMartin> | Indeed. |
| 00:58 | <@McMartin> | It was the plant that is the red herring in novice mode. |
| 02:12 | | * McMartin files three bug reports against the Linux I7 shell. |
| 02:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | Nuuuu, Linux flawless! *rants at /.* |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | lol 0-day bugz0rz |
| 02:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | But seriously, I7 shell? *googles* ^^ |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | http://www.inform-fiction.org/ |
| 02:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ahhh, Inform. I thought you were speaking of another /bin/sh replacement. Me silly. ^^ |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | (Basically, you need to use absolute paths, and release doesn't work right, though debug compile is fine. Extensions are also ugly as leeg.) |
| 02:27 | <@McMartin> | (But the software's been out for less than 24 hours, so!) |
| 02:28 | | * McMartin upgrades laptop kernel, goes out to dinner. |
| 02:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | Have fun. |
| 02:43 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 03:05 | | * ReivZzz frowns. |
| 03:05 | < ReivZzz> | Is "White" an accepted standard for 'earth' on computer wires at all? |
| 03:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Aaaaa! It's awake! |
| 03:06 | < MyCatVerbs> | I think it might be in the last IEE spec, but I'd have to check. |
| 03:06 | < ReivZzz> | I'm trying to plug in my chassis plugs to the computer, and they're blue/white, red/white, green/white, etc. |
| 03:06 | < MyCatVerbs> | However, anyone actually using anything other than yellow and green stripes should have their testicles coated in gunpowder and lit. |
| 03:06 | < ReivZzz> | I'd thus assume it is... but that's a dangerous thing to assume with a couple hundred bucks of hardware. >.> |
| 03:08 | < MyCatVerbs> | S'pose you could stick and ohmmeter between the chassis and the white wires... |
| 03:08 | < Doctor_Nick> | HOGTIED AND HORNSWAGGLED |
| 03:09 | < MyCatVerbs> | *an |
| 03:09 | <@Raif> | That bitch! |
| 03:10 | < ReivZzz> | ? |
| 03:10 | <@Raif> | Also, reiv, white is indeed ground. |
| 03:11 | <@Raif> | Actually, it's been a while since I took electronics. White goes on the negative lead. |
| 03:11 | < ReivZzz> | Raif: Thank you. |
| 03:11 | < ReivZzz> | And if a cable has two cables the same colour, it probably doesn't matter which way around you plug 'em? |
| 03:12 | <@Raif> | Correct. |
| 03:12 | <@Raif> | The only cables that REALLY matter are the power and LED ones. |
| 03:12 | <@Raif> | Don't swap them, or you'll let out the blue smoke. |
| 03:12 | | * ReivZzz nods. |
| 03:12 | < ReivZzz> | Hee. OK. |
| 03:12 | < ReivZzz> | I also have a real brainfuck question about which plugs to plug my hard drives into, if you know anything about SATA standards... |
| 03:12 | <@Raif> | (If you put an LED connector on the reset button, for instance, it turns from single throw to continuous current... not good) |
| 03:13 | <@Raif> | I know a very little bit about SATA standards. |
| 03:13 | < MyCatVerbs> | ReivZzz: last I checked, SATA connectors were designed so that you *can't* plug them in backwards. Worry not. |
| 03:13 | <@Raif> | As in, I know what to look for on the box and I know where to plug it in. As for the internal intricacies, I've got only a small smattering of knowledge. |
| 03:13 | < ReivZzz> | I have two hard drives. |
| 03:14 | <@Raif> | What are you trying to do with them? |
| 03:14 | < ReivZzz> | One is a SATAII internal, one is an SATA external. |
| 03:14 | <@Raif> | Ah. |
| 03:14 | < ReivZzz> | I want to plug them into my motherboard. |
| 03:14 | <@Raif> | Sata channels are independent. |
| 03:14 | < ReivZzz> | My motherboard has black plugs, and red plugs. |
| 03:14 | < ReivZzz> | The description in the manual for each is as follows: |
| 03:15 | < ReivZzz> | "Serial ATA connectors (7-pin SATA1[red], SATA2[red[{: These connectors are for the Serial ATA signal cables for Serial ATA hard disk and optical disk drives that allows up to 150MB/s data transfer rates, faster than the parallel ATA with <$numbers>. |
| 03:15 | < ReivZzz> | If you install Serial ATA hard disk drives, you can create a RAID 0, RAID 1, and JBOD configuration through the onbard VIA $number Controller." |
| 03:15 | < ReivZzz> | (I couldn't be bothered typing the irrelevant serial numbers, so.) |
| 03:15 | < ReivZzz> | Then we have, on the next page: |
| 03:15 | < ReivZzz> | "Serial ATA RAID connectors (7-pin SATA_E1[black], SATA_E2[black]): These connectors are for Serial ATA signal cables. These connectors support Serial ATA hard disk drives that you can configure for RAID through the onboard Serias ATA RAID controller. |
| 03:16 | < ReivZzz> | and as bullet points on the SATA_E connector page: |
| 03:16 | < ReivZzz> | * Before creating a RAID set upsing Serial ATA hard disks, make sure that you have connected the Serial ATA signal cables and installed Serial ATA hard disk drives; otherwise you cannot enter the $Utility, and SATA BIOS setup during POST. |
| 03:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | They're lying. Unless you buy very expensive kit, that's actually just a two-port SATA controller and the RAID is done in software. |
| 03:16 | < ReivZzz> | * Install an internal Serial ATA hard disk drive to SATA_E1 or SATA_E2 and an external Serial ATA hard disk drive on your system before creating the JMicron RAID." |
| 03:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Raif: the confusion here is the red vs black plugs. They have the same pinouts but different descriptions. |
| 03:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: err, hardware RAID0 and RAID1 is pretty much standard on SATA chipsets since at least last year. |
| 03:17 | < ReivZzz> | TF's understanding is that generally, red = internal, black = external. The manuals description seems to... confuse matters. |
| 03:17 | | * Raif nods to MCV |
| 03:17 | <@Raif> | Use the red plugs. |
| 03:17 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: doubt it. Will check, shortly. Throw me the name of a recent chipset, please? |
| 03:18 | <@Raif> | MCV: Nvidia nForce 4 |
| 03:18 | < ReivZzz> | Asus M2V-MX |
| 03:18 | < ReivZzz> | Mine is better because it's the mobo in question. :p |
| 03:18 | <@Raif> | Which does indeed support RAID 0, 1, 0+1, and 5 |
| 03:18 | <@Raif> | (All in hardware) |
| 03:18 | | * ReivZzz 's only supports 0 & 1. |
| 03:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's the motherboard model, the chipset is VIA VT8237A |
| 03:18 | < ReivZzz> | Oh. Whoops. |
| 03:18 | | * ReivZzz doesn't much care, just wants it to behave |
| 03:19 | < MyCatVerbs> | Raif: that's an nForce, they're spiffy and thus don't count =) |
| 03:19 | <@Raif> | ... |
| 03:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, I can't recall seeing a SATA motherboard without at least RAID1 or RAID0 support, and most of them support both and possibly RAID5 as well. |
| 03:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 03:19 | < ReivZzz> | MCV: They're ... nearly standard. |
| 03:19 | <@Raif> | Who in their right mind buys a non-nForce board? |
| 03:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | MCV, I'm not following your so-called logic here. |
| 03:19 | <@Raif> | Neither am I. |
| 03:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Almost everything is either nForce or VIA, and both of those support hardware SATA RAID. |
| 03:19 | <@Raif> | Indeed. |
| 03:19 | < ReivZzz> | Raif: TF and I did~ |
| 03:20 | <@Raif> | That'll teach you then, won't it? :) |
| 03:20 | < ReivZzz> | :p |
| 03:20 | | * ToxicFrog has not only never had problems with VIA, but has written drivers for them and is fairly well-disposed towards them due to not completely sucking for driver developers. |
| 03:20 | < MyCatVerbs> | Last I checked, the VIA chips were fakeraid. *googles* |
| 03:20 | < ReivZzz> | So... shall I plug the SATA II drive into the red ones, and hope the manual listed speed is just an obsolete-printing (AKA they forgot to change it), and the external plug into the SATA_E? |
| 03:21 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: you've written drivers for them? k, I'll take your word on it, then. |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | MCV: I note that I barely touched the SATA stuff, most of it was environmental monitoring and some esoteric bus support. |
| 03:21 | <@Raif> | Reiv: That'd be my guess. |
| 03:22 | < ReivZzz> | Raif: If I get it wrong, will anything explode?~ |
| 03:22 | <@Raif> | You can use each channel independently, I'd assume. On most boards you have to explicitly enable RAID to make that happen, so worst case your hard drive will be running a bit slower. |
| 03:22 | <@Raif> | No, nothing will explode. |
| 03:22 | < ReivZzz> | That's the main thing, then~ |
| 03:22 | < ReivZzz> | ...Say, you know XP. |
| 03:23 | < ReivZzz> | Will I be able to install SATA drivers during XP setup via a USB stick, or do I need to salvage a floppy disk drive from somewhere to do that? |
| 03:23 | <@Raif> | Hit or miss. |
| 03:23 | < ReivZzz> | OK. |
| 03:23 | | * ReivZzz weilds the Screwdriver(tm), then. |
| 03:24 | <@Raif> | Glueck. |
| 03:24 | < ReivZzz> | (The optical and hard drives out of the fried computer were okay. I'm thus gonna assume the floppy is okay too.) |
| 03:24 | < ReivZzz> | (Now where the hell is a floppy disk? >.>) |
| 03:26 | <@Raif> | We don't actually own any I'd trust. |
| 03:26 | <@Raif> | Nor do we any longer own floppy drives that work. |
| 03:26 | <@Raif> | I burn such things to CD now, if I need to. |
| 03:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: are you *sure* those aren't fakeraid? On linuxmafia, the devices covered by both the sata_nv and sata_via drivers are listed as fakeraid. |
| 03:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | MCV: no, I'm not sure |
| 03:41 | <@Raif> | I'm 90% sure mine is hardware. |
| 03:41 | <@Raif> | It falls back to software in the presence of shitty drivers, and you can tell. |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | hwraid is not something I generally need to worry about, since I only have one RAID machine, and that uses md because the SCSI controller doesn't support RAID6. |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't have any SATA drives. |
| 03:55 | | ReivZzz is now known as ReivClass |
| 03:56 | < ReivClass> | TF: Confirmation: The sapphire cards don't actually require the PCI-E power cable, do they? |
| 03:56 | | * ReivClass couldn't find a plug, but would rather ask stupid questions than find out the hard way~ |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | They do, but they also come with a molex4 to PCIE converter. |
| 04:42 | <@McMartin> | OK, that was kind of ugly. |
| 04:42 | <@McMartin> | "Rule for supplying a missing second noun when asking Hal to try unlocking the main door with: change the second noun to the Skinner keycard." |
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| 06:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, this image format is actually much wackier than it looks at first |
| 06:10 | <@McMartin> | ... is it secretly PCX? |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | An RLE block starts with a uint16_t (key) and two int16_ts (/\x and /\y) |
| 06:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | If the low bit of key is 0, the next (key >> 1) bytes are raw frame dump, starting from (previous draw coordinates + (/\x, /\y)). |
| 06:12 | <@McMartin> | Not secretly PCX. |
| 06:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Otherwise, the next key bytes are RLE phrases - either a byte with a 0 low bit followed by (byte >> 1) raw pixels or a byte with a 1 low bit followed by a color that should fill the next (byte >> 1) pixels in the output. |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. The file starts out with a table of contained images, in a format that probably makes sense when not expressed in Bugfuck C. |
| 06:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | There are other kinds of C? |
| 06:29 | | * MyCatVerbs ducks. |
| 06:30 | <@McMartin> | There's the parallel multicore version, Clusterfuck C! |
| 06:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is written in randomly indented DJGPP C. |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | And we have code like: |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | TOIend = ((long)fbuffer[TOIptr++]&0xFF); |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | TOIend|= ((long)fbuffer[TOIptr++]&0xFF)<<8; |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | TOIend|= ((long)fbuffer[TOIptr++]&0xFF)<<16; |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | To read a uint24_t |
| 06:33 | <@Raif> | ... |
| 06:33 | <@Raif> | fbuffer is what exactly? Bytes? |
| 06:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | unsigned char * fbuffer; |
| 06:34 | <@Raif> | That's fucking gross. |
| 06:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a memory buffer of the file contents, since it's written for DOS, which lacks mmap() |
| 06:35 | <@Raif> | Still gross. |
| 06:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 06:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I expect this sort of thing to be at least abstracted to a function or macro. |
| 06:36 | <@Raif> | Ah, foolish mortal. |
| 06:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hey, it was when I did it! |
| 07:10 | | * Serah PatPats ToxicFrog. |
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| 08:03 | < ReivClass> | Rearranging plugs in preperation for testing/booting new computer. Liable to fall off. |
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| 09:25 | < Reiver> | 176930 MB avalable. |
| 09:26 | | * Reiver giggles madly as he starts to select the desired partition sizes. |
| 09:27 | | * Reiver ponders. |
| 09:28 | < Reiver> | When partitioning a drive, is 10 GB 10000 MB, or 10240 MB? |
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| 11:24 | | * Reiver pokes for ToxicFrog |
| 11:33 | < Reiver> | Ho well. Didn't think so, but it was worth a shot~ |
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| 13:33 | < ReivSLEP> | Vorn? |
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| 13:37 | < Vornicus> | ? |
| 13:37 | < Reiver> | TF suggested a linux file format to use, once. |
| 13:37 | < Reiver> | ex3 or something? |
| 13:38 | | * Reiver needs it so he can finish installing Stuff on his new computer. >.> |
| 13:38 | < Vornicus> | ext3 |
| 13:38 | < Vornicus> | Is the standard Linux journaling filesystem. |
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| --- Log closed Tue Mar 27 13:50:33 2007 |
| --- Log opened Tue Mar 27 13:56:09 2007 |
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| 21:29 | < Janus> | May I ask a smalll question...? Ragdoll physics is just where people crumple up like ragdolls when they get K.O.ed, right? |
| 21:29 | < Vornicus> | Where they crumple up dynamically. |
| 21:29 | < Vornicus> | And are thereafter affected by physics. |
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| 21:31 | < Vornicus> | so, for instance, you'll shoot a guy on a bridge, and he falls over and hangs on the railing for a while, and then when the bridge shakes, he'll fall off. |
| 21:32 | < Janus> | So, it only applies when said person kicks the bucket? |
| 21:32 | < Vornicus> | Right. |
| 21:32 | < Janus> | Okie. Another one then, what's it called when the same physics are applied, but that person isn't dead; they have control over their bits and such? |
| 21:32 | < Vornicus> | However, careful application of similar physics allows for a lot of interesting things. |
| 21:33 | < Vornicus> | "skeletal animation" or "dynamic skeletal animation" depending on how cool it is. |
| 21:34 | | * Janus is feeling a tad ambitious and self-destructive today~ |
| 21:34 | < Vornicus> | Quake 2 used skeletal animation. Dynamic skeletal animation is much harder, and the only place I've seen it really used is the new engine from Crytek. |
| 21:35 | < Janus> | What's the difference..? |
| 21:36 | < Vornicus> | Skeletal animation uses a wire "skeleton" with parametrics to animate a creature, making the motion arbitrarily smooth. However, its reactions to physics are scripted, and it doesn't match the terrain. |
| 21:38 | < Vornicus> | Dynamic skeletal animation takes that and turns it up to 11 - in addition to parametric animation, body parts react to collisions, and can adjust movement according to slope and other things. |
| 21:39 | | Chalcy [Chalceon@Nightstar-5761.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:40 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 21:40 | | Chalcedon [Chalceon@Nightstar-4020.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Chalcy))] |
| 21:40 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 21:40 | < Janus> | So, it's able to animate, be knocked around, and still be able to keep it's feet underneath it? |
| 21:40 | < Vornicus> | Yeah. |
| 21:41 | < Vornicus> | Or, alternatively, not keep its feet under it. |
| 21:42 | < Janus> | *drools* |
| 21:43 | < Janus> | I'm guessing that engine from Crytek isn't open source, is it? |
| 21:43 | <@gnolam> | Also look up "inverse kinematics". |
| 21:43 | < Vornicus> | Janus: oh hell no. |
| 21:44 | < Vornicus> | They want license fees out the nose for it, and with good reason. |
| 21:45 | < Janus> | Heh, it's still pretty cutting edge then. |
| 21:45 | < Vornicus> | There aren't even any games with it out yet. |
| 22:01 | | Chalcedon [Chalceon@Nightstar-5761.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 22:02 | | * Vornicus finds an image he forgot he rendered. |
| 22:02 | < Vornicus> | http://vorn.dyndns.org/~vorn/geodesation/geodesate17_glamour.png |
| 22:11 | | * Janus oogles the pretty platonic sphere. |
| 22:17 | < Vornicus> | it's so easy to look at that and say "wait, you can cover a whole sphere with just hexagons?" and the answer is, of course, no - two non-hexagons are visible (and focus distortions around themselves) on the day side of this picture. |
| 22:18 | | * Janus looks for the waldogon. |
| 22:21 | < Janus> | Ah, I see it now. Though, if there's only two, that's small enough that you won't believe it's not platonic. |
| 22:21 | < Vornicus> | There are twelve on the whole sphere. |
| 22:26 | < Janus> | Oops, thought two in total, though that doesn't change the deceiving lies. Also, looking for it made me kind of dizzy. And my left face numb. |
| 22:45 | | HowardMcGrey is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 22:53 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 23:49 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 28 00:00:58 2007 |