| --- Log opened Sun Jan 28 00:00:47 2007 |
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| 01:34 | < Derakon> | Anyone know how I could go about adding a virtual operator<< to a class in C++? |
| 01:34 | < Derakon> | My understanding of such operators is that they have to be declared outside of the class, though my memory of why is a bit hazy. |
| 01:37 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: class foo { friend function iostream& operator<< (iostream&, foo&); } <--- it's because the function in question isn't a member of the class, doesn't return an object of that class, etc. |
| 01:38 | < Derakon> | I have a working operator<< function; I just need to make it virtual. |
| 01:39 | < Derakon> | Which, among other things, would mean that I can't actually name the class in the arguments...hrm. |
| 01:39 | < Derakon> | Basically, I want to do "cout << someComponent << endl;", and either call the Module operator<< or the Hardpoint operator<<, as appropriate. |
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| 01:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: you can't make it virtual, you'll instead want to have the functions that it calls be virtual. |
| 01:41 | < Derakon> | Ergh...I guess that means implementing toString, then. :\ |
| 01:42 | < MyCatVerbs> | Yup. operator<< would then just be a stub saying {output << this->tostring();}, where tostring() is of course virtual. |
| 01:43 | < MyCatVerbs> | Incidentally, welcome to OOP! Isn't it such a wonderful improvement over all that messy pure-proceedural stuff? Despite having ten times as much fucking code, of course. >_> |
| 01:43 | < Derakon> | I find it much easier to think OO-style than procedurally, though, so I'd say it's a net gain. |
| 01:43 | < Derakon> | I thought about how I would go about writing this program procedurally, and it hurts my brain. |
| 01:47 | < MyCatVerbs> | You'd fake OOP, which is pretty trivial if you think it over carefully. :P |
| 01:47 | < Derakon> | Oh, yeah. |
| 01:47 | < Derakon> | Class -> struct. Just pass the struct in as the first argument to every class function. Just like OOP, except with messier syntax and without any data hiding. Or inheritance. |
| 01:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | Except that it'd probably come to about the same amount of code anyway, what with the need to reimplement features using pure C balenced against the total brain damage of C++. |
| 01:52 | < Derakon> | Oh, wow, that was silly. |
| 01:52 | < Derakon> | I was hunting down this compile error for about fifteen minutes. Turns out I spelled "private" "priivate". |
| 01:54 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Poor Der. |
| 01:55 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Also, to create an operator inside a class, it's just operator<< (type& other); |
| 01:55 | < Derakon> | I'm aware of that, but output operators are kinda funky. |
| 01:55 | < Derakon> | Because the thing you're outputting is the second argument (the first is the stream). |
| 01:55 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | To add an operator to an existing class, it's operator<< (type& original, type& other); |
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| 01:58 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: to add an operator to an existing class, it's www.bruceeckel.com, grab the PDFs of "Thinking in C++" and see how he does it in his example code. =D |
| 01:58 | < Derakon> | That's what I'm doing with the normal output operator. |
| 01:59 | < Derakon> | But since I'm adding it to the ostream class instead of to my own, it can't be virtual. |
| 01:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hrmn, no Brucket Eckel.com? Oh well, http://www.janiry.com/bruce-eckel/ |
| 01:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: it's supposed to be global, not a member of ostream. ?_? |
| 02:00 | < Derakon> | ostream& operator<<(ostream stream, const Component& src); |
| 02:03 | < Derakon> | ...why can't I concatenate together more than two strings in a row? |
| 02:03 | < Derakon> | "string result = "Hardpoint " + id;" works. |
| 02:03 | < Derakon> | "string result = "Hardpoint " + id + " with name " + name" does not. |
| 02:03 | < Derakon> | error: invalid operands of types 'const char*' and 'const char [8]' to binary 'operator+' |
| 02:04 | < Derakon> | They're strings! Get it through your thick skull! |
| 02:04 | < Derakon> | I really, really don't want to do "string result = string("Hardpoint " + id) + string(" with name " + name); |
| 02:04 | < Derakon> | " |
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| 02:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: it's C++. |
| 02:06 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: what were you expecting, sense? |
| 02:06 | < Derakon> | Most of C++ isn't terrible. The real crap is stuff it inherited from C. Like strings that want to be character arrays. |
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| 04:44 | < Derakon> | Hrm...so given that Hardpoint and Module both inherit from Component, and Component has some virtual functions, if I'm in a Component context, I can't call a virtual function and have it resolve to the Module/Hardpoint implementation, can I? |
| 05:04 | <@Vornicus> | If the thing the method is being called on is a hardpoint, it will act like a hardpoint as to virtual methods. |
| 05:05 | < Derakon> | Even if it's in a Component function? |
| 05:08 | <@Vornicus> | I believe so. |
| 05:09 | < Derakon> | That doesn't jibe with the failures I'm getting here... |
| 05:10 | < Derakon> | addChild is a virtual function declared in Component that is implemented in both Hardpoint and Module. |
| 05:11 | < Derakon> | I'm in Component::attach as a Hardpoint, and I call addChild. I get "pure virtual method called" and "terminate called without an active exception" and my program dies. |
| 05:14 | < Derakon> | Don't think there was, actually. |
| 05:14 | < Derakon> | Er, wrong channel. |
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| 16:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Remind me: in C, is the result of multiplying a double by an int an int? |
| 16:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or is it a double? |
| 16:24 | <@jerith> | It should be a double. |
| 16:25 | <@jerith> | It should translate everything to the most general type. |
| 16:25 | <@jerith> | And double is more general than int. |
| 16:25 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 16:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's been a while. |
| 16:27 | <@jerith> | int i = 20; |
| 16:27 | <@jerith> | float f = 1.5; |
| 16:28 | <@jerith> | printf("%f", i*f); |
| 16:28 | <@jerith> | jerith@terminus ~/foo $ ./a.out |
| 16:28 | <@jerith> | 30.000000 |
| 16:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | I wonder what happened to my type-C-at-stdin script. |
| 16:29 | <@jerith> | I seem to have suddenly run our of bandwidth. :-( |
| 16:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 16:30 | <@jerith> | *out |
| 16:31 | <@jerith> | This stupid fscking website which is the only way I can get bandwidth stats is somewhat out of date. |
| 16:31 | <@jerith> | And it only shows me how much I have remaining on my contract, not how much I've actually used. |
| 16:31 | <@jerith> | So I have a balance of zero. |
| 16:32 | <@jerith> | Which means I could be a couple of k over or a couple of gigs over. |
| 16:32 | <@jerith> | At R1.50/mb, that is Not Good. |
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| 16:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...eeew. |
| 16:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Are you using a cellphone or something? |
| 16:34 | <@jerith> | Yes. |
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| 16:34 | <@jerith> | My contract gives me 500mb/month. |
| 16:35 | | * Serah PatPats jerith. |
| 16:36 | <@jerith> | It's not the price that I object to. I knew that going in. |
| 16:36 | <@jerith> | It's the complete lack of any kind of tools to track my usage. |
| 16:37 | <@jerith> | And the complete lack of any kind of caring from Vodacom on the topic. |
| 16:37 | <@jerith> | How difficult is it to put a little SNMP server in the router? |
| 17:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Ah, but then people might actually know how much they've used.. |
| 17:13 | <@jerith> | If you have the data card without the router, the app that they install counts usage for you. |
| 17:14 | <@jerith> | Ah, portage is *such* a pleasure to use after yum. |
| 17:15 | <@jerith> | The firmware on the router is just exceedingly shoddy. |
| 17:15 | <@jerith> | It also doesn't help that they keep changing the data card they use. |
| 17:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Portage? |
| 17:25 | <@jerith> | Gentoo's package manager. |
| 17:25 | <@jerith> | Combines the best bits of apt and BSD's ports. |
| 17:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
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| 17:30 | | * ToxicFrog 's experience has been that the only part of apt worth keeping is the speed~ |
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| 17:35 | <@jerith> | TF: What do you prefer? |
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| 18:12 | <@jerith> | Why is there no easy tutorial on doing network I/O in Erlang? |
| 18:12 | <@jerith> | It doesn't look that complicated. It's just that all the examples are full of other crap I don't want. |
| 18:12 | <@jerith> | And I'm not fluent enough to pick out just the bits I need yet. |
| 18:15 | < gnolam> | I should really take a look at Erlang sometime. It's supposed to be interesting to work with. |
| 18:16 | <@jerith> | It is. |
| 18:16 | <@jerith> | The little I've done so far has been fun. |
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| 19:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: I prefer yum. |
| 19:12 | <@jerith> | ! |
| 19:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the one hand, it's slower. On the other hand, it has a clear interface that makes it easy to find what I'm looking for, and it doesn't plunge me into Dependency Resolution Hell. |
| 19:12 | | * Vornicus likes apt. |
| 19:12 | <@jerith> | I find in yum all that is wrong with package managers. |
| 19:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Avoiding DRH is meant to be one of the main purposes of a package manager. |
| 19:13 | <@jerith> | TF: Try use Sun java on an FC6 system. |
| 19:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although, in fairness, most of the blame there goes to Debian's repository maintainers and not apt per se. |
| 19:13 | <@jerith> | Yum ignores interrupts half the time. |
| 19:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, that is a problem. |
| 19:13 | <@jerith> | Yum takes forever to start up because it tries to update its metadata all the time. |
| 19:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fortunately, it doesn't ignore SIGQUIT. |
| 19:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | alias yum='yum -C' |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | Yum will only allow itself to run once. |
| 19:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or just use "yum shell", which is what I do. |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | This includes searches, etc. |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | Yum provides no easy way (that I can find) to pin packages at a particular version. |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Umm. |
| 19:15 | <@jerith> | (Yes, I need this. A lot.) |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | By "pin" do you mean "I want this version", or "I want this version, never upgrade it unless I say otherwise"? |
| 19:15 | <@jerith> | Either. |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because the former is trivially easy. |
| 19:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | package-1.2.3 rather than package. |
| 19:16 | <@jerith> | Oh, the latter then. |
| 19:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know of no way to do that, but I've never bothered looking. |
| 19:16 | <@jerith> | I want a yum update to not give me a newer version of package foo because the version I want has custom libraries that we build. |
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| 19:18 | | * ToxicFrog shrugs |
| 19:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | As I said, I've never needed that capability, so I don't know if it can be done in yum. |
| 19:18 | <@jerith> | The closest I've found is to have a separate repo with the versions I want in it and then exclude that package from all the others. |
| 19:19 | <@jerith> | Except that breaks where an update to bar wants a newer foo. |
| 19:19 | <@jerith> | Because then it refuses to do anything. |
| 19:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | At any rate, my experience is that yum is a bit sluggish, but makes it easy to find and install or remove what I need and manages all the dependencies for me cleanly. |
| 19:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Whereas apt means three hours manually resolving and installing dependencies because it's being idiotic about python versions, then giving up and going back to yum. |
| 19:19 | <@jerith> | I've found apt(itude) to be friendly, reliable and very usable. |
| 19:20 | <@jerith> | I've never had any dependency hell. |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | As I said, this may be more a debian repo issue than an apt issue. |
| 19:20 | <@jerith> | Oh, yum also fails to do anything if it can't get to one of its repos. |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, it was certainly compounded by apt's interface, which can die in a fire. |
| 19:21 | <@jerith> | You have to explicitly disable said repo until it comes back. |
| 19:21 | <@jerith> | TF: apt operates at about the same level as rpm. You want aptitude or synaptic or something for a yum-equivalent. |
| 19:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, ok, apt-get |
| 19:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which I'm using apt as shorthand for |
| 19:22 | | * jerith nods. |
| 19:23 | <@jerith> | aptitude adds some smarts to apt-get and friends and it also gives you a curses interface which is great for finding packages. |
| 19:23 | <@jerith> | Mostly, I find myself spending more time fighting yum than working with it. |
| 19:23 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 19:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | That exactly describes my experience with apt-get. |
| 19:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. |
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| 19:26 | < gnolam> | Hmm... I cannae remember: does atexit stuff still get called if the program exits due to a SIGINT? |
| 19:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Don't remember either. |
| 19:26 | < Vornicus> | try it? |
| 19:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Functions registered using atexit() (and on_exit()) are not called if a process terminates abnormally because of the |
| 19:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | delivery of a signal. |
| 19:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | from atexit(3) |
| 19:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, install a SIGINT handler if you want cleanup. |
| 19:27 | < gnolam> | So SIGINT isn't special-cased then? Argh. |
| 19:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...no, why would it be? |
| 19:33 | < Vornicus> | "Selection lists are those drop-down list boxes with the built-in artificial intelligence that guarantees the choice you want can be reached only by scrolling past everyone else's choice." |
| 19:33 | <@jerith> | Indeed. |
| 19:33 | | * jerith sighs at Erlang. |
| 19:40 | <@jerith> | Oh, that would be because gen_tcp live in kernel, not stdlib. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Argh, working in Lua for so long has totally fucked my C reflexes |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | struct foo = {} |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | no semicolons |
| 20:02 | | * ToxicFrog goes insane |
| 20:04 | | * jerith staples Kiers to ToxicFrog's coattails. |
| 20:04 | <@jerith> | (Since you're going there anyway...) |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | 22:01 < k4y> operator presedence is just gay |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | 22:01 < k4y> why can't it know what i mean? |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | 22:01 < pjd> maybe you should switch to another "scheme" |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | 22:03 < pjd> some kind of language with Less Interfering, Suspicious |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | Precedence |
| 20:06 | <@jerith> | (pjd is our resident lisper, in case you missed that.) |
| 20:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (it was subtle like a sledgehammer to the face) |
| 20:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (also, please tell me k4y was being sarcastic) |
| 20:07 | <@jerith> | He was. |
| 20:08 | <@jerith> | He's been fighting with JavaScript all evening. |
| 20:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 20:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Relay my sympathies. |
| 20:08 | <@jerith> | This particular complaint was due to shifting have lower precedence than Morris dancing. |
| 20:09 | < Vornicus> | morris dancing? |
| 20:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, why is this illegal? |
| 20:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | struct options { |
| 20:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | px_t (*scaler)(PGM *, size_t, size_t) = NULL; |
| 20:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | } |
| 20:10 | <@jerith> | Can you put assignments inside struct defs? |
| 20:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...shit |
| 20:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Die, C, dieeeeeeee |
| 20:11 | | * jerith obediently shits. |
| 20:11 | <@jerith> | Sorry, Chalain. You may want to change your shoes now... |
| 20:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Man, forgetting to include <stdlib.h> really messes things up. |
| 20:18 | <@jerith> | Indeed... |
| 20:22 | < Vornicus> | pff |
| 20:26 | < gnolam> | Hmm... odd. Seems my atexit /is/ being called, despite everything. I'll just put it down to "quirk with GCC" and get on with things. |
| 21:03 | < MyCatVerbs> | Error condition etiquette: is it particularly impolite for a program to die screaming, and I quote, "HOLY HELL FUCK ASS BALLS!?!?!?" |
| 21:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...yes. |
| 21:04 | < Thokk> | Just how bad does the user need to screw up for that? |
| 21:04 | < MyCatVerbs> | Thokk: programmer, not user. =D |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | ("My theory is that a user interface should hurt. So we have sounds like 'puking', 'bird hitting window' and 'nails on blackboard'.") |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | ("But! What if the user does something wrong? In that case, we have a puking bird hitting a blackboard.") |
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| 22:30 | | Kiers is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 22:39 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 23:08 | | Thokk is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 23:08 | | MyCatVerbs is now known as MyCatSleeps |
| --- Log closed Mon Jan 29 00:00:47 2007 |