| --- Log opened Wed Jan 10 00:00:09 2007 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 10 2007 |
| 00:00 | < ToxicFrog> | (which bash doesn't have on *any* system, AFAIK) |
| 00:01 | | * MyCatVerbs thinks. |
| 00:02 | < MyCatVerbs> | Python could be faking it by writing to a file on disk in small chunks. It'd get about the same performance in practice as shared memory, because the data would never leave the disk cache and make it to the spindle. |
| 00:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Assuming windows has a disk cache that doesn't suck. |
| 00:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Which I'm unwilling to assume. |
| 00:03 | < ToxicFrog> | And, in any case, windows has named sockets. |
| 00:03 | <@McMartin> | Indeed |
| 00:03 | < ToxicFrog> | I suspect it's using that, since that's what they're meant to be used for. |
| 00:03 | < MyCatVerbs> | What's the difference between a named socket and a named pipe? |
| 00:03 | <@McMartin> | And also because ZoneAlarm freaks out whenever you start up a Python terp. |
| 00:03 | < ToxicFrog> | A named pipe has a presence in the filesystem and looks like a file. Once it's created, you manipulate it just like any other file. |
| 00:04 | < ToxicFrog> | It's also local to the system it was created on. |
| 00:04 | < ToxicFrog> | A named socket, although it has a file-like name, doesn't exist in the filesystem and cannot be accessed using the same system calls you use for files, only with a special API. |
| 00:04 | < ToxicFrog> | It can also be used to communicate between different systems. |
| 00:04 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: so if you create two of them pointed at each other, you get something that looks pretty similar to a named pipe? |
| 00:04 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ah, okay. Special APIs are stupid. |
| 00:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | Would Python be using a named pipe and then putting a wrapper around the stupid API to make it look like the normal API? |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | Historical artifact. Sockets are a BSD thing that got tacked on later, file-like access to everything was AT&T's hobbyhorse. |
| 00:05 | < ToxicFrog> | (for added stupidity, it responds fine to read() and write() - but open() won't accept the special name, so you still need the special API to get the file descriptor for it) |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | MCV: Python is, of course, using wrappers for everything, being an entirely different language. |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | But yes, sockets and files are basically identically accessed in Python. |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | And actually, probably in any modern "scripting" language. |
| 00:07 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: I meant a section in the Python source for the its open() commands with something like: if (isnamedpipe_p) { /* do something shitty and Windows-specific */; } else { /* do something sane with normal standard-C calls */; } |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | Oh. Well, as TF noted, things like popen4 aren't in anything, so it's got to be something sneaky everywhere. |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | Also, I'd suspect it involves linking separate libraries. Most of POSIX is actually in Win32's API, just hiding under different names. |
| 00:08 | < MyCatVerbs> | Understandably. They *do* achieve similar tasks in the end, at least in theory. |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | The most notable difference is fork(), but (a) Win32 is derived from VMS, which uses more heavyweight processes than POSIX, and (b) apparently there's a double-secret version of fork() in the Win32 API anyway. |
| 00:09 | < MyCatVerbs> | Though the route may be a little more or less chaotic in some cases than others... =) |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | As to (b) applications can't actually use it reliably though~ |
| 00:09 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: no, not understandable. |
| 00:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Err. |
| 00:09 | < ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: no, not understandable. |
| 00:09 | < ToxicFrog> | A lot of it appears to be "this system call is the same as the POSIX equivalent, but if we make it POSIX people will start writing cross-platform programs, so let's change it" |
| 00:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | Usually by putting underscores in front. |
| 00:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Some of them are just the POSIX names with _ tacked on to the front, others are more complicated. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | On the other hand, ISO C++ apparently is doing that to all of the C API now. |
| 00:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | I was referring to the fact that it's there, not the fact that it has been given silly names. |
| 00:10 | < ToxicFrog> | On the topic of fork(), Cygnus appears to have rolled their own. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | I ran UQM through MSVC8 and got about 4 billion warnings to the effect that strncpy is deprecated in ISO C++ and I should use _strncpy instead. |
| 00:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | And silly bugs to go with them, of course. |
| 00:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: ...what? |
| 00:10 | < ToxicFrog> | The source for Cygwin's fork() implementation is scary. |
| 00:11 | < ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 00:11 | <@McMartin> | The thing is, I can totally see ISO doing this~ |
| 00:11 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: I don't think there is any sane reaction whatsoever. |
| 00:11 | < MyCatVerbs> | *reaction to that |
| 00:11 | < ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: "the C++ standard is changing such that all the legacy C system calls are now meant to be prefixed with _" |
| 00:11 | < MyCatVerbs> | It's too hilarious not to laugh and it's too boneheaded not to cry. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | For the specific case of strncpy, I believe the intent is to begin the "character arrays are not strings, and pointers are not arrays" beatings. |
| 00:12 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: es ist fuchenstoopid! They've already solved that problem by putting the whole syscall set into the std namespace. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | And to start insisting that people use <string> |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | MyCatVerbs: And that was such a smashing success! |
| 00:12 | < ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: different APIs. |
| 00:12 | < ToxicFrog> | The C++ API is in std. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | There's nothing I like better than having all my previously working code break. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | Also. |
| 00:12 | < ToxicFrog> | The C API needs _) |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | There is a bug here on MS's end as well |
| 00:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Ie, cout is std::cout, but printf is _printf |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | Which is that UQM is not written in C++. |
| 00:13 | < ToxicFrog> | ...... |
| 00:13 | < MyCatVerbs> | How is "x is not written in C++," a bug, unless x is required to be dynamically linked with C++ programs? |
| 00:14 | < ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: read that warning message again. |
| 00:14 | < ToxicFrog> | It's not a C++ program. |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | It's complaining about use of the C API in a C program. |
| 00:14 | < ToxicFrog> | MSVC is complaining that it's not strictly adhering to the C++ standard. |
| 00:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh, fuck this conversation. |
| 00:14 | | EvilDarkLord [~nsJChat@Nightstar-29631.loviisa.fn.fi] has joined #code |
| 00:14 | < ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | TF: To be fair, some versions of gcc had similar problems with wacky defaults for --std |
| 00:15 | < MyCatVerbs> | I'm going to go sit over here in this nice little *nixy domain, where all these piffling issues don't exist in the first g'damn place. |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | I'm sure there's a switch somewhere. |
| 00:15 | < ToxicFrog> | IMO, it still has a problem, in that the default for gcc is still c89 and not c99 and thus declarations inside for loops don't work by default~ |
| 00:15 | < ToxicFrog> | But this is minor. |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | Actually, it's gnu89, not c89, because // does. |
| 00:16 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah. Yes. |
| 00:16 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: no, gcc defaults to gnu89, or possibly gnu99. |
| 00:16 | <@McMartin> | Also pointer arithmetic on void *, which violates c89 and I think c99 as well. |
| 00:16 | <@McMartin> | (It autocasts them to byte pointers) |
| 00:17 | <@McMartin> | More to the point, kobodl. |
| 00:17 | < MyCatVerbs> | If you try to use gnu99 features without specifically asking the compiler to turn them on, you get them anyway. |
| 00:17 | <@McMartin> | I don't believe that's currently true, at least for the only feature that counts. |
| 00:17 | < MyCatVerbs> | OTOH, if you turn --ansi --pedantic on, it'll start swearing at you because you're using a superset of that spec, you bastards. |
| 00:17 | <@McMartin> | (which is declarations in the middle of blocks or in for loops) |
| 00:18 | < MyCatVerbs> | *bastard |
| 00:18 | < ToxicFrog> | kobodl wasn't actually template wackiness AFAICT, it was declaring a const typedef. |
| 00:18 | < ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: well, yes. |
| 00:18 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: what, variable declarations? |
| 00:18 | < ToxicFrog> | "a superset of the spec" means "this includes stuff that isn't part of the spec and thus violates it" |
| 00:18 | <@McMartin> | Yes, but since an unmodified copy is in gentoo, clearly some version of gcc ate that source fine. |
| 00:18 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: well, yes. That's why I appended, "you bastard." ^_^ |
| 00:18 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: point. |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | Though, as evidenced by the five years it took them to close my gcj bug, gcc in general is kind of lax about fixing accepts-illegal bugs. |
| 00:19 | < MyCatVerbs> | What was kobodl? |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | kobodl is a fairly excellent arcade-style game that doesn't compile on TF's or my version of gcc unmodified. |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | First because it declares a class as friend without first listing a forward declaration... |
| 00:20 | | * MyCatVerbs will try it, on his copy of gcc (4.1). |
| 00:21 | < ToxicFrog> | [ben@leela ~]$ gcc --version |
| 00:21 | < ToxicFrog> | gcc (GCC) 4.1.1 20060525 (Red Hat 4.1.1-1) |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | ... and second because it says typedef const struct {...} name; instead of typedef struct { ... } internal_name; typedef const struct internal_name name; |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | However, on my system, the sound code reliably hangs X. |
| 00:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | Interesting. The homepage says the developer does his work on Linux. |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | Indeed; I conclude that FC6 is using a different version of gcc than gentoo. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | Though the package database implies otehrwise. |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | Maybe it's a RH patchlevel vs a gentoo one, as each has their own modifications. |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | (Red Hat 4.1.1-30 vs gentoo's 4.1.1-r3) |
| 00:24 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:25 | < MyCatVerbs> | I'm fairly certain the copy on my box was pulled from CVS. |
| 00:25 | < MyCatVerbs> | It's version numbered at 4.1.2 and instead of a patchlevel, there's a date. |
| 00:25 | < MyCatVerbs> | ...15th of last December. |
| 00:26 | < Derakon> | Are we trying to compile Kobo here or something? |
| 00:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | Building... |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: Yeah, since this was a case of code building or not depending on version of gcc. |
| 00:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | Okay, odd. |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | ? |
| 00:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | "scenes.h:58: warning: non-local variable âconst _scene scene []â uses anonymous type" |
| 00:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | "scenes.h:56: warning: âtypedef const struct<anonymous> _sceneâ does not refer to the unqualified type, so it is not used for linkage" |
| 00:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | And then, |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | That's the one that's because "typedef const struct {...} name;" is illegal. |
| 00:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | "gamestate.h:32: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of âgamestatemanager_tâ with no type" and "gamestate.h:32: error: expected â;â before â*â token" |
| 00:28 | <@McMartin> | And that's the one that's the lack of a forward declaration. |
| 00:28 | < ToxicFrog> | And that's the one because the friend class doesn't have a forward declaration. |
| 00:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | Perhaps he's not bothering to test the build on Linux? |
| 00:28 | <@McMartin> | I'm astonished the gamestatemanager_t thing compiles anywhere. |
| 00:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | Or if he might've made those two alterations in his own copy in order to get the binary packages to build on something other than MSVC++, but forgot to add them in the published source too? |
| 00:29 | | * McMartin blink |
| 00:29 | | * McMartin check kobodeluxe ebuild |
| 00:30 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, the ebuild is putting patches in itself |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | Apparently the behavior change is in gcc-4.1 |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | I bet the developer is using 4.0 |
| 00:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | You can fix the forward-class decleration error by shifting the "friend class" line downward four lines, right? |
| 00:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | Or... no. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | I solved it with a blank forward declaration. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | "class gamestatemanager_t;" |
| 00:31 | | * MyCatVerbs smacks his head against a wall and tries again. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | As per the way you always define recursive classes |
| 00:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | Of course. |
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| 00:33 | < MyCatVerbs> | Uhhhh. What was the second alteration that had to be made? 'Cuz it just build successfully here, with only the forward declaration added. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | gcc 4.1.1 rejects typedef const structs. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | That may be a change in 4.1.2 |
| 00:33 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh, okay. Looks like gcc 4.1.2 doesn't. |
| 00:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | Heehee. |
| 00:34 | < ToxicFrog> | They appear to be a warning in 4.1.2, per your earlier messages: |
| 00:34 | < ToxicFrog> | <MyCatVerbs> "scenes.h:58: warning: non-local variable âconst _scene scene []â uses anonymous type" |
| 00:34 | < ToxicFrog> | <MyCatVerbs> "scenes.h:56: warning: âtypedef const struct<anonymous> _sceneâ does not refer to the unqualified type, so it is not used for linkage" |
| 00:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | Yesh, that makes sense. |
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| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | One of those, IIRC, is an error in 4.1.1. |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | I forget which, or if it was some baffling third. |
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| 00:39 | < MyCatVerbs> | Fun game. |
| 00:39 | <@McMartin> | Augh45 |
| 00:39 | | * MyCatVerbs would prefer a more diplomatic approach, though. |
| 00:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | I mean, just why do these wierd geometric objects hate me so much? |
| 00:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | Isn't there some means for us to all just, y'know, get along? |
| 00:41 | <@McMartin> | IM IN UR BASE POPPIN UR 0RBZ |
| 00:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | Touché. |
| 00:41 | | * Vornicus agrees wholeheartedly, McM. |
| 00:43 | < MyCatVerbs> | Heehee! I smite the round infidels with the laser cannon embedded in my hiney! |
| 00:43 | <@McMartin> | Backward Utilized Tracking Torpedo! |
| 00:44 | | * McMartin is also fond of the Death Blossom technique, in which bullets are sprayed quickly in all eight directions. |
| 00:45 | | * AnnoDomini counters McMartin's BUTT with a simple defense laser. |
| 00:46 | | * Derakon throws 5-bubbles around like they're going out of style. |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | Actually, the most entertaining one is the ridiculous-firing-rate 2-bubbles, because if you're on an attack vector, they always miss. |
| 00:47 | < Derakon> | Well, that's assuming you're only facing one at a time. |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | But they have a good blamblamblam effect, and they do make one ;_; when one is merely passing by. |
| 00:47 | < Derakon> | Right. |
| 00:48 | | * McMartin tends to do some damage to the perimeters before chasing any cores. |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Unless one happens to expose its creamy center while I'm getting myself some breathing space |
| 00:48 | < Derakon> | Well, I was thinking of when the turrets themselves are firing 2-bubbles. |
| 00:48 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh HOLY SHIT that's a lot of ammo. |
| 00:48 | < Derakon> | E.g. agh45. |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | That's full of hate. |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | The creamy center firing 2-bubbles at ridiculous rates is the funny one. |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | In agh45 and friends I tend to engage the blue orbs at extreme range and immediately reverse course after scoring a hit. |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | After Death Blossoming my way to some breathing room. |
| 00:49 | < Derakon> | Right. Playing silly buggers with firing ranges is a very important tactic. |
| 00:49 | < Derakon> | Getting lucky, sadly, is also very important on agh45. |
| 00:50 | <@McMartin> | I'm also pretty good at dodging fighters. http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/misc/arcfightersaugh.png is merely a case where I didn't evade successfully. |
| 00:50 | | * Derakon snerks. |
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| 00:50 | <@McMartin> | s/fighters/bullets/ |
| 00:50 | < Derakon> | Stage 47, incidentally, has turrets firing green fighters, and wandering/creamy-center red fighters. |
| 00:50 | < ToxicFrog> | Pink arcfighters are definitely the most augh of the enemies, IMO. |
| 00:51 | <@Vornicus> | pish tosh. 5-bubbles, easily. |
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| 00:51 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ahhh, *those* 2-bubble things. |
| 00:51 | <@Vornicus> | I can kill arcfighters reliably. |
| 00:51 | <@McMartin> | Depends on how fast they're moving. |
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| 00:51 | < ToxicFrog> | I consider 5-bubbles to be projectiles, not enemies, personally. |
| 00:51 | <@McMartin> | hyperfast 5 bubbles are worse than arcfighters are worse than slow 5 bubbles. |
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| 00:51 | < Derakon> | I don't really mind the fighters too much. They're not as randomly death as 5-bubbles are, so if they kill you, it's your own damn fault. |
| 00:52 | <@Vornicus> | 5-bubbles have been killing me less lately, but it's still over 10%. |
| 00:54 | < Derakon> | If it weren't for the 5-bubbles, stage 50 would be pretty easy. |
| 00:54 | < Derakon> | 5-bubbles as wandering "ships" is *evil*, because you're flying around, and suddenly there's 15 bullets on the screen from three different primary vectors. |
| 00:55 | < Derakon> | So basically, every once in a while you die. |
| 00:56 | < MyCatVerbs> | What stage do 5-bubbles start popping up at? |
| 00:56 | < Derakon> | Um, dunno, but you'll know when you see them. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Um. Pretty early, actually. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Slow ones, anyway. |
| 00:56 | < Derakon> | Bubbles look just like turrets, but they "explode" when they get remotely close to you. |
| 00:57 | <@Vornicus> | there's two varieties, 2 and 5. They each produce that many bullets. |
| 00:57 | < MyCatVerbs> | On stage 12, I've only seen 2-bubbles thus far. |
| 01:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oooh, stage thirteen. |
| 01:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | That's one. |
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| 01:12 | | * MyCatVerbs is on his way to destuction. |
| 01:14 | | * MyCatVerbs makes his time. |
| 01:14 | | * McMartin lobs fragmentation clams in MCV's general direction |
| 01:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | Stage 20 is cool. |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | My personal favorite is, I think, 37. |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | Yes, 37. |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | One humongous base. |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | No turrets. |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | Trench run 4tw. |
| 01:21 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ironically, all I can think about is how these bases seem to be a perfect example of a FSA in action. |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | How so? |
| 01:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | Any wall segment touching one or zero other wall segments and/or orbs explodes. |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | Oh. |
| 01:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | Otherwise, it stays intact. |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | You mean like the Conway automaton, not like, say, an elevator controlelr. |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | controller |
| 01:23 | < MyCatVerbs> | Well, yeah, but Conway is Turing-complete. This isn't. |
| 01:24 | | * McMartin splits cellular automata from finite-state automata in his mind, though any cell does tend have a finite number of states. |
| 01:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Likewise. |
| 01:25 | < Derakon> | Also http://reprapdoc.voodoo.co.nz/bin/view/Main/WebHome |
| 01:25 | < Derakon> | Er, wrong channel. |
| 01:25 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hrm. Conway's can be viewed as a grid of FSA, which together are Turing complete. Fun. |
| 01:26 | <@McMartin> | (Also, I believe your rule is only valid while the creamy center holds) |
| 01:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | Oh yes, of course. >_> |
| 01:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | Well, perhaps not. |
| 01:27 | <@McMartin> | I think a three-fork that then leads to the creamy center would self-sustain under your rule |
| 01:27 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | For that matter, a two-fork would. |
| 01:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | I think that provided there is no more than one route between any two nodes, my rule actually still holds. |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | I think it's actually: |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | MCO: nope. |
| 01:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ohhh, I see. |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | - a wall segment touching an explosion becomes and explosion |
| 01:28 | <@McMartin> | Destroying the center unleashes a BFS of destruction. |
| 01:28 | < MyCatVerbs> | Perhaps it judges on connectedness? |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | - an orb touching a bullet becomes an explosion |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | - an explosion becomes empty space |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | That, I think, covers it. |
| 01:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: what about when the explosion halts at a three-fork? |
| 01:29 | <@McMartin> | TF: Except there's no termination condition. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 01:29 | < Derakon> | Well, a wall segment touching an explosion and at most one other wall segment explodes. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | MCV: it doesn't halt at a three fork. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | That's the whole point. |
| 01:29 | <@McMartin> | TF: ... yes it does. |
| 01:29 | < Derakon> | Oh, TF is talking about taking out the creamy center. |
| 01:29 | < ToxicFrog> | (these are the rules of the game, not the rules as set out by MCV) |
| 01:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: I mean if you have three nodes in an E shape and you shoot only one of them. |
| 01:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 01:30 | < ToxicFrog> | ...bum. |
| 01:30 | < ToxicFrog> | You're right. |
| 01:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Or, well, we're both wrong. |
| 01:30 | | * MyCatVerbs nods sage-and-onionly. |
| 01:30 | <@McMartin> | I think if we combine MCV's rule with TF's first rule it all works out. |
| 01:31 | <@McMartin> | "A wall segment adjacent to an explosion becomes an explosion if it has only one wall-segment neighbor" |
| 01:31 | < Derakon> | That's what I said. ¬.¬ |
| 01:31 | | * MyCatVerbs thinks carefully, shoots a node or two in an experimentally warlike manner. |
| 01:31 | < Derakon> | But then you need a second kind of explosion, for full-base deaths. |
| 01:31 | <@McMartin> | Taking out the center produces, essentially, a breadth-first search across the base. |
| 01:31 | <@McMartin> | Of explosions. |
| 01:32 | <@McMartin> | Level 37 is good for seeing it in action. |
| 01:32 | < MyCatVerbs> | Aannyyway. It's like watching one of those growing-tree FSA's in reverse =) |
| 01:33 | < MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: yes. |
| 01:33 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: no, that rule still doesn't cover the destruction of the creamy center. |
| 01:33 | < MyCatVerbs> | A wall touching a nuclearexplosion becomes a nuclearexplosion. |
| 01:33 | < Derakon> | Man, I'd forgotten how awesome 38 is. |
| 01:33 | < MyCatVerbs> | A ball touching a nuclearexplosion becomes a nuclearexplosion. |
| 01:33 | < Derakon> | s/wall/anything |
| 01:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | A centreball touching a bullet becomes a nuclearexplosion. |
| 01:34 | <@McMartin> | TF: I think the creamy center has a different rule, ununifiable with the first |
| 01:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | A nuclearexplosion becomes air. |
| 01:34 | <@McMartin> | well, space. |
| 01:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | Er, space. |
| 01:34 | <@McMartin> | On the other hand, there's sound. |
| 01:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | D'oh. |
| 01:34 | <@McMartin> | *NOSOUNDINSPACE* |
| 01:34 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: there's actually an easy solution to that. |
| 01:35 | <@McMartin> | Well, you can hear things hitting *you*, since *you* have air |
| 01:35 | <@McMartin> | My favored theory for Star Wars was that space was full of chalk dust |
| 01:35 | < MyCatVerbs> | Like I said, there's an easy, non-kludgy method. |
| 01:35 | <@McMartin> | That simultaneously explained: (a) why the lasers were visible, (b) why there was sound, (c) why the X-wings banked into turns |
| 01:35 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 01:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | You hook up a fast phototransistor to a high-gain amplifier. |
| 01:37 | < MyCatVerbs> | It's called a, "light listener." Pretty cool device. Lets you percieve changes in intensity up to 20kHz with your ears rather than the measly ~40Hz-ish that your eyes can barely manage. |
| 01:38 | < MyCatVerbs> | Focus a parabolic mirror on it, point that at a light bulb and you can hear the mains voltage supply frequency for your country. ^_^ |
| 01:39 | < MyCatVerbs> | You also get interesting noises from various other light sources. Candles apparently give a whooshing noise, I am lead to understand. |
| 01:39 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: better than my explanation, since it only covers the sound~ |
| 01:40 | < Derakon> | Seems like chalk dust would accrete on ships, though. |
| 01:40 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: what was your explanation? |
| 01:41 | < ToxicFrog> | "the designers of the various fighter craft programmed the sensor systems to generate simulated sound, thus improving the situational awareness of the pilot" |
| 01:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ah, yes. Heh. |
| 01:41 | < ToxicFrog> | This is basically my explanation for any *SOUNDINSPACE* involving fightercraft. |
| 01:41 | < MyCatVerbs> | That's the same excuse as they use in EVE, I think. |
| 01:41 | <@McMartin> | You can also go "their weapons leak in the radio band" |
| 01:41 | < Derakon> | Didn't the Serrano series have something like that, TF? |
| 01:41 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: weapons and engines. |
| 01:41 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: never heard of it. |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | Though my favorite version of that is that the pilots actually go "PEW PEW PEW" into their comms. |
| 01:42 | < Derakon> | Where one of the admirals decided to reprogram his ship to play e.g. ascending and descending scales for the left and right laser arrays. |
| 01:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Heee |
| 01:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: well, that's just the PfMB in reverse~! |
| 01:42 | | * Derakon snerks at McM. |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | And "NNNNNNYEOOOOOW" when flying past |
| 01:42 | < Derakon> | PfMB? |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | Because really, who wouldn't? |
| 01:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Protocol for Musical Bombardment. |
| 01:42 | < Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 01:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Like a $MUSIC_PLAYER visualization, except it controls the weapons systems instead of the linear framebuffer! |
| 01:43 | < Derakon> | And the Death Star plays heavy metal. |
| 01:44 | < ToxicFrog> | The Death Star's weapon systems aren't photogenic enough to make proper use of it. |
| 01:45 | < Derakon> | I didn't say that it was any good at it. The Emperor's too old to be hip to popular music. |
| 01:48 | | * Derakon poofs to get groceries. |
| 01:48 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | Mmm, food, yes |
| 01:49 | < MyCatVerbs> | Arrrrgh! |
| 01:50 | < MyCatVerbs> | Fast-moving bullets are made of hate and raspberry poo. |
| 01:57 | <@Vornicus> | heee |
| 01:57 | < MyCatVerbs> | That game is made for the purpose of crushing souls. |
| 01:57 | < MyCatVerbs> | Specifically, mine. |
| 02:11 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 03:00 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-28899.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Some people find sanity a little confining.] |
| 03:04 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:04 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 03:06 | | ChalcyGone [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 03:08 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 03:39 | <@McMartin> | MCV: There's a cheat mode if you just want the grand tour, idly. |
| 03:47 | | ChalcyGone [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:49 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 04:14 | | Datawalke [~ewhore@75.75.183.ns-3883] has joined #Code |
| 04:22 | | ChalcyGone [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 04:50 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 04:51 | | ReivWork is now known as Reiver |
| 04:58 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: naaaah. |
| 04:59 | | * McMartin concurs. |
| 05:00 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 05:06 | | * McMartin sets up two of the three files needed for the UQM 0.6.1 release. |
| 05:18 | | * McMartin directs you all to http://www.xkcd.com today, courtesy Vorn |
| 05:25 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:34 | <@Reiver> | Is xkcd actually surprisingly popular, or does it just happen to have something of a cult following on Nightstar, I wonder? |
| 05:34 | <@Mahal> | i think it's probably quite popular. |
| 05:34 | <@Mahal> | Popular enough that he's made an lj feed |
| 05:34 | <@Reiver> | Ah, cool |
| 05:34 | <@Reiver> | (Hi Mahal!) |
| 05:35 | < MyCatVerbs> | It must be pretty damn popular by now. |
| 05:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | I remember at least three high-traffic webcomics that linked to it, all pretty much simultaneously. |
| 05:36 | < MyCatVerbs> | Er, I mean, I can remember that at least three high-traffic webcomics did. Not which ones, or when. >_< |
| 05:36 | < ToxicFrog> | ...ok, signs that I'm tired: it takes me several minutes to remember why the Lua bindings of xchat don't accept userdata arguments to callbacks. |
| 05:37 | < MyCatVerbs> | But I do remember seeing a link to it on Bunny, then more links from other comics on the same day. |
| 05:37 | < MyCatVerbs> | Presumably it got passed around the day before. *shrugs* |
| 05:37 | <@McMartin> | I started reading from "Fuck Computational Linguistics" |
| 05:37 | <@Vornicus> | me too. |
| 05:37 | | * Vornicus wonders why that one, though |
| 05:38 | <@McMartin> | It's tangentially related to my field of study, in my case. |
| 05:38 | <@McMartin> | The e^pi*i one is hanging from one of my colleague's doors, and it's not my fault |
| 05:39 | < ToxicFrog> | I need to deploy the A(g64,g64) one in the math offices on campus someday~ |
| 05:47 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm still giddy about JROTC!] |
| 05:48 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 06:04 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There are only two things which can force an OpenBSD user to reboot. One is hardware failure. The other is sheer, overwhelming stupidity. Guess which I've just committed.] |
| 06:05 | | BlueTiger [BlueTiger@Nightstar-567.natsoe.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 06:32 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatownz@Nightstar-379.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 06:32 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 07:14 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 08:08 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-28899.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:10 | | MyCatVerbs is now known as MyCatSleeps |
| 09:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[wr0k] |
| 10:16 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | Huh. Will `dd if=/dev/sda1 | ssh chris@192.168.0.2 dd of=/home/chris/backup/sda1.dump` actually work? |
| 11:02 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | one way to find out, I guess... |
| 11:06 | <@Vornicus> | ...it looks like it should. |
| 11:08 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | It appeats to do so, too |
| 11:28 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 11:41 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-15301.a88-115-211-62.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #code |
| 12:33 | | Ev3 [~-@87.72.36.ns-26407] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:36 | | Serah [~-@87.72.36.ns-26407] has joined #Code |
| 13:57 | | Serah [~-@87.72.36.ns-26407] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 14:09 | | Vornicus-Latens [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 10 14:25:30 2007 |
| --- Log opened Wed Jan 10 14:25:35 2007 |
| 14:25 | | TheWatcher[wr0k] [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 14:25 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 14 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 8 normal] |
| 14:25 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher[wr0k]] by ChanServ |
| 14:25 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 23 secs |
| 15:05 | | * ToxicFrog throttles basdh |
| 15:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | There we go. |
| 15:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 16:44 | | MyCatSleeps is now known as MyCatOwnz |
| 16:44 | | MyCatOwnz is now known as MyCatVerbs |
| 17:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:24 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 17:24 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-28899.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by AbuDhabi))] |
| 17:24 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29846.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 17:37 | | Reiver is now known as ReivWork |
| 18:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:41 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:41 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 19:52 | | Serah [~-@87.72.36.ns-26407] has joined #Code |
| 20:14 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 20:15 | < timelady> | hey:) |
| 20:15 | | * MyCatVerbs tacklehugs timelady. |
| 20:15 | < MyCatVerbs> | Haven't done that in a while. How've you been? |
| 20:17 | < timelady> | a good tacklehug is wrth a lot:) |
| 20:17 | < timelady> | oh, busy, insane, usual:) |
| 20:17 | < timelady> | hows you? |
| 20:17 | < MyCatVerbs> | Not bad, thanks. Frighteningly lazy as usual. |
| 20:18 | < timelady> | meh |
| 20:18 | < timelady> | people say that, never actually are:) |
| 20:21 | | * MyCatVerbs is though, as evidenced by the fact that he's wasting time on IRC instead of doing his damn work. :) |
| 20:22 | < timelady> | umm, tech consulting?:) |
| 20:22 | < jerith> | Yay work! |
| 20:22 | < jerith> | :-/ |
| 20:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | timelady: I guess #code gives me that excuse, heh. |
| 20:23 | < timelady> | xactly;) |
| 20:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hoi, TL |
| 20:50 | | * ToxicFrog waves a horrible perversion of all that is good and right in the world at timelady |
| 20:50 | < MyCatVerbs> | Put that Oracle CD away before we keelhaul you! |
| 20:50 | < jerith> | Not perl! |
| 20:50 | | * jerith hides. |
| 20:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...no, no, neither of the above. |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | A bash script module for xchat. |
| 20:52 | < timelady> | meep |
| 20:52 | < timelady> | VB |
| 20:52 | < timelady> | NOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 20:52 | < jerith> | Gah! |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | EW |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Please, no! Even I have limits! |
| 20:52 | | * jerith ponders a VB module for xchat... |
| 20:53 | | * timelady pokes jerith with otis |
| 20:54 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: just use the damn netcat already! |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, I'm working on the FIFO-based linux version at the moment. |
| 20:55 | < MyCatVerbs> | It's not like you don't already fork-exec several times for every single line of meaningful shell code anyway, what with all the sed, grep and awk proliferation. |
| 20:56 | | MyCatVerbs is now known as MyCatFoods |
| 20:56 | < timelady> | http://www.kroah.com/lkn/ |
| 20:57 | < timelady> | free oreilly linux kernel in a nutshell |
| 20:57 | < jerith> | What kernel version? |
| 20:57 | < MyCatFoods> | I don't really see the point. |
| 20:57 | < MyCatFoods> | Last I checked, Linux changes fundamental bloody operating principles every other version number bump. |
| 20:58 | < jerith> | A nutshell doesn't need a very complicated driver. |
| 20:58 | < MyCatFoods> | Point. |
| 20:58 | | * MyCatFoods runs off to sate hisself, anyhoo. |
| 21:02 | | * ToxicFrog eyebrows at MCO |
| 21:12 | | Datawalke [~ewhore@75.75.183.ns-3883] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 21:14 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 21:16 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 21:16 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: run away! run away!] |
| 21:36 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 21:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 22:12 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #Code |
| 22:58 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29846.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Some people find sanity a little confining.] |
| 22:59 | | Vornicus-Latens [~vorn@67.50.40.ns-3674] has joined #code |
| 23:03 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 23:05 | | timelady [~romana@Nightstar-15056.lns7.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: run away! run away!] |
| 23:48 | | MyCatFoods is now known as MyCatVerbs |
| 23:52 | | * ToxicFrog ... at himself |
| 23:52 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: you okay? |
| 23:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bring shell to front. Run commands. |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Flail uselessly at the spot on the keyboard where the windows key would be if this were my laptop in an effort to get the shell to retract into the top of the monitor. |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Realize what I'm doing and alt-tab. |
| 23:53 | < MyCatVerbs> | Wait, you have a keyboard with no winkeys? Lucky git! =D |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a 101-key, AT interface, IBM model M. |
| 23:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | I also have a KeyTronic E03600QL, but thanks to a coffee incident (not my fault, I hasten to add) it is no longer suitable for general use. |
| 23:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is a pity, because it's only the best keyboard ever crafted by mortal hands. |
| 23:55 | | * MyCatVerbs goes green. |
| 23:55 | <@McMartin> | I don't mind Winkeys. I map them to Compose. |
| 23:56 | <@McMartin> | Extëndèd LâtÃn før äll |
| 23:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have mine mapped to "toggle yakuake". |
| 23:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, before learning about yakuake, they were just an annoyance. |
| 23:56 | | * MyCatVerbs uses ralt for compose. Hrmn. |
| 23:56 | < MyCatVerbs> | Perhaps winkeys would be a better idea, indeed. |
| 23:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | And even with it, I'd rather have a E03600QL or Model M without them and use alt-~ or something than some shoddy modern keyboard with them. |
| 23:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | (now, a model M with a winkey, especially if I could replace the keycap, would be acceptable) |
| 23:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...assuming, of course, I ever get around to porting yakuake to Cygwin/X. |
| 23:57 | | * Vornicus uses the option key - which has been on Macs since the day they were born, and is in about the place that the winkey is in - to create special characters. |
| 23:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since Durandal is after all a windows machine. |
| 23:58 | < MyCatVerbs> | What is yakuake? |
| --- Log closed Thu Jan 11 00:00:25 2007 |