| --- Log opened Tue Nov 28 00:00:29 2006 |
| 00:20 | <@Vornicus> | ...gah, the stupid little things that throw you off. |
| 00:20 | <@Vornicus> | I arrive at work this morning to find that the gradient in my Windows title bars is no longer a gradient. |
| 00:20 | | * Stephenie blinks |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | yay for customization! |
| 00:21 | | * Stephenie goes back to hiding |
| 00:21 | <@Vornicus> | I've tried to change it back, but it seems I cannot. |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | err policy? |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | What does it tell you when you try to? |
| 00:21 | < MyCatOwnz> | KDE! |
| 00:21 | | * MyCatOwnz hides under Plastick. |
| 00:21 | <@Vornicus> | It just can't - the customize thing has the second color greyed out. |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | lol MCO |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | errr |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | I know the problem |
| 00:21 | <@Stephenie> | hold on |
| 00:22 | <@Stephenie> | wait |
| 00:22 | <@Stephenie> | On the title bar the second box is greyed out? |
| 00:23 | <@Vornicus> | Display Properties -> Appearance -> Advanced -> Active Title Bar |
| 00:23 | <@Vornicus> | the second box is greyed out. |
| 00:24 | <@Stephenie> | OS? |
| 00:24 | <@Vornicus> | XP Media Center |
| 00:25 | <@Stephenie> | err I dont know that one |
| 00:25 | <@Stephenie> | Sorry |
| 00:25 | <@Vornicus> | XP Pro |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's an extra-crippled version of XP. |
| 00:25 | <@Stephenie> | well tecnically though its xp pro |
| 00:25 | <@Vornicus> | Just with extra stuff. |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. No, I got it backwards. |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a less-crippled version of XP. |
| 00:25 | <@Stephenie> | lol Ben |
| 00:25 | <@Vornicus> | Home < Pro < Media Center |
| 00:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Weird. |
| 00:26 | <@Stephenie> | I can't think of a reason why that owuld happen to be honest vorn... it should give you the option ... let me look at something i'll brb |
| 00:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | It works fine on mine, but I'm running a different OS, so~ |
| 00:26 | | * Stephenie hands Ben a cookie |
| 00:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mmmcookie |
| 00:52 | < MyCatOwnz> | ToxicFrog: some versions. |
| 00:52 | <@Vornicus> | ...some versions of? |
| 00:53 | < MyCatOwnz> | I've heard that some versions of MCE are XP home with upgrades, and others are for some reason versions of XP Pro with stuff ripped out. |
| 00:53 | < MyCatOwnz> | Or perhaps vice-versa. Iono. |
| 01:02 | <@Vornicus> | I haven't found any MCE ones that were less powerful than pro |
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| 03:21 | < Chalcedon> | rightyho then. |
| 03:21 | < Chalcedon> | a) does anybody know anything at all about Markov processes? |
| 03:22 | < Chalcedon> | and b) if so, would they be willing for me to bounce some ideas off of them? |
| 03:24 | <@Vornicus> | yes and yes |
| 03:24 | <@Vornicus> | :P |
| 03:24 | < Chalcedon> | :) |
| 03:24 | < Chalcedon> | right |
| 03:25 | | * Chalcedon rearranges brain |
| 03:25 | | Reivles [~Fotiadis1@Nightstar-12481.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 03:25 | < Chalcedon> | hi reivy |
| 03:25 | < Chalcedon> | umm... |
| 03:25 | < Chalcedon> | ok |
| 03:25 | | * Chalcedon finds appropriate piece of paper |
| 03:25 | < Chalcedon> | I have a population |
| 03:26 | < Chalcedon> | said population has a certain probability (psi) of occupying a site. |
| 03:27 | < Chalcedon> | it has also a probability of colonising a new site (gamma) between seasons and a probability of becoming extinct from a site it was previously present at (epsilon) |
| 03:27 | < Chalcedon> | (and a probability of detection). |
| 03:28 | < Chalcedon> | provided that gamma != 1 - epsilon, and that occupancy is not constant, this is I believe a Markov process. |
| 03:29 | < Chalcedon> | (now we venture into what I am trying to understand, half of this is does this mean the same thing if I put it a different way) |
| 03:29 | < Chalcedon> | hmmm; that occupancy over time can be described by a Markov process? |
| 03:31 | < Chalcedon> | also where gamma or epsilon are modified by a covariate (do I need to give context for that?), but not time, is the process still stationary? (covariates change by sample site but not over time) |
| 03:31 | < Chalcedon> | (am I asking too many questions all at once?) |
| 03:32 | | * Chalcedon grab some food, brb |
| 03:33 | | * Chalcedon returns |
| 03:35 | < Chalcedon> | (or is this some totally weird modification of Markov processes, or indeed, has the author gone totally mad?) |
| 03:36 | <@Vornicus> | ...hm |
| 03:37 | <@Vornicus> | It looks like a markov process, yeah... |
| 03:38 | < Chalcedon> | a stationary markov process is where colonisation and extinction are constant, I know that much. |
| 03:38 | < Chalcedon> | so, if one of them is not constant, it's a non-stationary process? |
| 03:38 | < Chalcedon> | and only stationary processess reach equilibrium? |
| 03:40 | < Chalcedon> | I /think/ the covariate effectively breaks it up into 36 little independant stationary markov processes instead of making it non-stationary. |
| 03:41 | <@Vornicus> | ...gnar |
| 03:41 | | * Vornicus has forgotten more about markov than he thought he had |
| 03:41 | | * Chalcedon hugs Vorn |
| 03:42 | < Chalcedon> | I get the impression that Mr Markov is actually fairly advanced. |
| 03:42 | < Chalcedon> | I've never seen a simple explaination and its not in my stats text (which is used for both first and second year) |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | Markov is actually pretty simple. It's the application that's batshit |
| 03:44 | < Chalcedon> | given my experience... thats a very fair call :) |
| 03:46 | <@Vornicus> | All of them together still makes a markov process - the next state requires only the current state to get there |
| 03:49 | | * Chalcedon nod |
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| 14:36 | | * AnnoDomini looks around cautiously. |
| 14:36 | | * AnnoDomini puts his shirt over his head. |
| 14:36 | | * AnnoDomini makes the 'horns.' |
| 14:36 | | * AnnoDomini celebrates finding out how to do that 2C->SM conversion. |
| 14:41 | < AnnoDomini> | All I needed was ((MSB1(+)MSB2)*OUT4)+(MSB1*MSB2), where MSB1 and MSB2 are the inputted signs, OUT4 is the fifth bit of the output, and (+) is XOR. |
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| 18:11 | <@Chalcedon> | has anyone experienced any problems with thunderbird? |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | I've occasionally had it tell me the wrong number of messages were waiting for me |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | always lower |
| 18:16 | <@Vornicus> | other than that, no. |
| 18:18 | <@Vornicus> | why? |
| 18:20 | <@Chalcedon> | my parents have been getting some really weird error messages - to do with the authentication certificate - when they try to send emails, (their ISP has been having issues) but they don't get the same problem with Outlook |
| 18:20 | <@Chalcedon> | I wondered if anyone else had met the same thing |
| 18:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've had it silently stop retrieving mail sometimes, but the only cert-related issues I've seen are when the cert on the server is in fact incorrect. |
| 18:27 | <@Vornicus> | oh |
| 18:28 | <@Vornicus> | Cert stuff. That's really the isp's fault |
| 18:28 | <@Vornicus> | you should be able to skip through cert warnings by hitting ok |
| 18:28 | <@Vornicus> | But you should notify your mail provider |
| 18:33 | <@Chalcedon> | hmmm |
| 18:34 | <@Chalcedon> | thats what I thought, but why doesn't outlook give the same warning? |
| 18:34 | <@Vornicus> | Perhaps Outlook isn't checking the cert the same way as Thunderbird does. |
| 18:35 | <@Chalcedon> | hmmm |
| 18:35 | <@Chalcedon> | again, that's what I thought, but I simply don't know enough to rely on my own opinion |
| 18:35 | <@Chalcedon> | thanks for the input |
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| 22:20 | < Janus> | May I ask console question..? When a user types something into the prompt and hits enter, what happens to the information? |
| 22:21 | | * Janus tosses an 'a' into it. |
| 22:22 | <@Vornicus> | It gets expanded by the shell, then sent to system() |
| 22:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Umm. |
| 22:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Other way around, at least on *nix. system() invokes the shell program. |
| 22:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I think on windows too. |
| 22:23 | <@Vornicus> | not system(), rather, but the thing that... things |
| 22:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | It gets expanded by the shell, which then either: |
| 22:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | - complains, if it was invalid in some way |
| 22:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | - updates its iternal state (export, function, alias, etc) |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | - invokes another program and passes the expanded command line to it as its argument list |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Roughly speaking. |
| 22:24 | < Janus> | Hmm... wait, would this be for something like the Mingw bust shell? |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bash. Not bust. |
| 22:25 | <@Vornicus> | ...hee hee, bust |
| 22:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it applies to bash, sh, ksh, zsh, command.com... |
| 22:25 | <@Vornicus> | csh tcsh |
| 22:25 | | * AnnoDomini also reyays at finding out how to figure out if the output number was negative or not. |
| 22:25 | < AnnoDomini> | Bust. |
| 22:25 | | * AnnoDomini snickers. |
| 22:25 | < Janus> | Alright... but would it apply to if you were writing a console program? |
| 22:26 | <@Vornicus> | huh? |
| 22:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you mean the more general question "what happens to stuff typed into a program's standard input", the answer is "it goes into the operating system's IO buffers until the program calls read() (or a higher-level wrapper like fread, fgets, fgetc, and so forth), at which point it is passed to the program" |
| 22:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: I think he's asking how to do console IO. |
| 22:27 | <@Vornicus> | ah |
| 22:27 | < Janus> | Yeah, that stuff! It's not so much the busty, or bashy thing as it is that. |
| 22:28 | < Janus> | I always thought that's what the two parameters in the main function did... |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Those are for command line options, which are different. |
| 22:28 | <@Vornicus> | nope |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eg, if I run 'nano foo.txt', the shell runs nano for me, and argv[0] is "nano" and argv[1] is "foo.txt" |
| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | If I then type something into nano, argv/argc are unchanged - they only apply on program startup - and it gets what I typed from read(). |
| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reading from and writing to the console is, for the most part, exactly the same as to a file. |
| 22:30 | < Janus> | I see. Then that should be easier then. |
| 22:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | The main difference is that you have two outputs (standard output and standard error), and these are both seperate from standard input - you don't read and write on the same file handle. |
| 22:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're planning to use C stdio, look into stdin, stdout, stderr, printf(), and fgets() for starters. |
| 22:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're planning to use C++ iostreams, look into cin, cout, cerr, ostream::operator<<, and istream::operator>> |
| 22:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | For starters. |
| 22:33 | | * Janus thinks Visual Studio is on smack if it can't run a simple program that includes nothing but cstdlib and iostream... |
| 22:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | This shouldn't come as a surprise. |
| 22:35 | < Janus> | Dev-Cpp may not have had class (browsing), but VS really steams my muffin. |
| 22:38 | | * Janus ventures out to find the arbitrary .lib file it's complaining about. |
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| 22:52 | | * Janus takes note of the two hits google brings up for "di32.lib," (one in Japanese no less). |
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| 22:52 | < Janus> | *di32.lib download (just di32.lib brings up several Japanese pages.) |
| 22:53 | | * Janus ventures out to find another IDE. |
| 22:53 | < MyCatOwnz> | Hmmmm... |
| 22:53 | < MyCatOwnz> | Does anyone happen to know exactly what Visual Studio 2005 is? |
| 22:54 | < Janus> | Bsdsadf. |
| 22:54 | < MyCatOwnz> | I have a copy. MSDN Academic Alliance thingy, gives us "free" (as in, cut-price licenses sold to the uni) MS development software. |
| 22:54 | < MyCatOwnz> | But I've no clue what on Earth it is for. |
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| 22:55 | <@McMartin> | It's an IDE, with a few associated sompilers |
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| 22:56 | < MyCatOwnz> | What's it compile, please? |
| 22:56 | < Janus> | Yes, though there should be a way to specify your own compiler, hats off to whomever actually achieves it. |
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| 23:11 | <@Vornicus> | Probably C# and other .NET things |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | And C and C++. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Theoretically. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | If this is v6.x, it has some scoping issues associated with for loops, and templates DFW. |
| 23:35 | < MyCatOwnz> | This is VS2005 I have hanging about here. |
| 23:35 | < MyCatOwnz> | Also I'll have the oppourtunity at some point to swipe a copy of VS6, but not yet. |
| 23:36 | <@McMartin> | TF: You can use that #define of doom for for loops~ |
| --- Log closed Wed Nov 29 00:00:29 2006 |